Grayseven Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 He's an optional companion, if you don't want him.... don't get him? It boils down to new content that a great many people wanted that has been gated to negate the chance of receiving it if your play style is different from what Bioware apparently THINKS your play style should be. In other words, a poorly thought out decision on Bioware development's part. If a new WZ was gated to allow only people who had "X" WZ comms on 2 opposite faction characters on the same server, would people still think that it was just optional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It boils down to new content that a great many people wanted that has been gated to negate the chance of receiving it if your play style is different from what Bioware apparently THINKS your play style should be. In other words, a poorly thought out decision on Bioware development's part. If a new WZ was gated to allow only people who had "X" WZ comms on 2 opposite faction characters on the same server, would people still think that it was just optional? *sigh* Are we really doing this again? All the storm in a teacup when species unlocks were announced, of people raging because they didn't want to level an Imperial class clear to 50 just to unlock Rattataki or Sith Pureblood, or whatever. Just before it launched, lo' and behold, there was actually an alternate unlock method the whole time. What makes you people think there suddenly won't be an alternate unlock method here is beyond me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 *sigh* Are we really doing this again? All the storm in a teacup when species unlocks were announced, of people raging because they didn't want to level an Imperial class clear to 50 just to unlock Rattataki or Sith Pureblood, or whatever. Just before it launched, lo' and behold, there was actually an alternate unlock method the whole time. What makes you people think there suddenly won't be an alternate unlock method here is beyond me... It has nothing to do with having an "alternate" unlock. The biggest issue with this is Bioware forcing play style decisions on the player base. If something isn't said to curtail the decision to gate content based on having characters of opposite factions on the same server, then that type of design decision will continue. Bioware needs to respect the fact that many people keep factions separate instead of having both on one server. The reason for this doesn't matter, it is a play style decision and if you start placing content that requires players to radically shift their play style it will breed discontent and anger. At no point should the factions people choose be used to determine access to content. There are probably people out there who want nothing to do with the opposite faction even if that prevents them from seeing the finely crafted story arcs of those classes and game developers should know that this happens and respect that while ensuring that new content is equally available to all. Is it really fair to give one group of players play style an advantage over another groups play style? Again, if you were told that if you have characters of both factions on a single server you COULDN'T get this without spending all the credits you earn in a month, would you be so blase' about it? Basic fact: People who perceive favoritism or who feel they are being unfairly singled out because of play choices won't remain customers. And no, I'm not saying that this decision will cause a mass wave of sub cancellations. What I am saying is quite simply that discontent breeds anger and it tends to build, so if you have someone already angry about a class being nerfed or a bug that affects them not being fixed and then you pile on a "you can't get this because of the way you play" then you start seeing angry posts that can eventually lead to someone washing their hands of the whole thing and moving on. It's just a poor design decision to gate content in this manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) It's just a poor design decision to gate content in this manner. I couldn't disagree more. It's a great decision, for the vast majority will not roll on two separate servers, thus it will get more people playing alts, since that's, y'know, the design intent. For the tiny minority that do roll on two separate servers, there is Legacy Level + credits to unlock it instead. Everyone gets their HK. All QQ is hereby pointless. Edited June 10, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larity Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It boils down to new content that a great many people wanted that has been gated to negate the chance of receiving it if your play style is different from what Bioware apparently THINKS your play style should be. In other words, a poorly thought out decision on Bioware development's part. If a new WZ was gated to allow only people who had "X" WZ comms on 2 opposite faction characters on the same server, would people still think that it was just optional? so...let me get this straight. They're releasing content how they want, and making people actually achieve a certain amount of things (NOT YET SET) to get this companion... and you don't like it? Are you a BW Dev? Is this your game? Is this companion crucial for you to have? The answer to all of these, is obviously No. If you want him, get your butt up and level another toon. Is really playing another story line that bad to get something? Here, I'll make it easier for you. Play your same class as you are, but as the opposite faction. Jedi Knight, meet Sith Warrior. Jedi Consular, meet Sith Inquisitor Smuggler, meet Imperial Agent Trooper, meet BH. It doesn't take long to level 1-50. So...go level before 1.3 comes out, and if you don't need an imp/rep to get him, oh look, you have a new toon to dink around on the other side with. tl;dr No one knows how to unlock him. Just play the freakin game as the opposite faction (oh my god its not a sin) Its a game, you gain rewards based on earning them, not by whining. and last If you don't want to earn him, you don't deserve him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larity Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It has nothing to do with having an "alternate" unlock. The biggest issue with this is Bioware forcing play style decisions on the player base. No one is FORCING you to play a certain way. You don't NEED him. It's not a crucial part of the game. He's an unlock, meaning grind/earn him. Back in my day of gaming, some characters were locked until you beat the game multiple times or heck, beat it under a certain amount of time. You had to earn them! You're basically complaining that because you're not getting something to you on a silver platter people are forcing you to play....when no one is forcing you to do anything! The only person forcing someone to do something, is you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlinder Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I have 3 repub lvl 50s atm everything i have is on the repub side geuss what im doing right now..... im leveling an operative to see one of the best stories in the game....i told my guildies they will only see me on for raids while i do this....its gonna take 2 weeks MAX...no big deal...really...it isnt suck it up and do it if you want the companion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) I have 3 repub lvl 50s atm everything i have is on the repub side geuss what im doing right now..... im leveling an operative to see one of the best stories in the game....i told my guildies they will only see me on for raids while i do this....its gonna take 2 weeks MAX...no big deal...really...it isnt suck it up and do it if you want the companion So what your saying is your coming out of the closset and finally admitting you have no life? Congratulations man... Its the first step to recovery... I, and many others do have a life and shouldnt have to roll soooo many toons. One max level character should be enough to access all the content in this game... Anything else is a slap in the face. Granted if you only have one class you wont see all of the class stories, but that should be a personal choice not something we are forced to do... Im a die hard imp and want nothing to do with those filthy republic scum! Edited June 10, 2012 by Razdek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So what your saying is your coming out of the closset and finally admitting you have no life? Congratulations man... Its the first step to recovery... I, and many others do have a life and shouldnt have to roll soooo many toons. One max level character should be enough to access all the content in this game... Anything else is a slap in the face. Granted if you only have one class you wont see all of the class stories, but that should be a personal choice not something we are forced to do... Im a die hard imp and want nothing to do with those filthy republic scum! So, if someone doesn't have the time or the "lack of a life" to raid, should they get the raid gear anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So, if someone doesn't have the time or the "lack of a life" to raid, should they get the raid gear anyway? It doesnt take 2 toons to raid... And raids on swtor take 1 hour max... Your comment is lol worthy. Great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 *sigh* Are we really doing this again? All the storm in a teacup when species unlocks were announced, of people raging because they didn't want to level an Imperial class clear to 50 just to unlock Rattataki or Sith Pureblood, or whatever. Just before it launched, lo' and behold, there was actually an alternate unlock method the whole time. What makes you people think there suddenly won't be an alternate unlock method here is beyond me... The alternate is looking up to be quite salty (Legacy supposed price). So, the reasonable way of unlocking it would be through its Quest. But, ok.. I`ll bite... Assuming I am so wet between the ears, that I take at face value what he said, and I actually believe his good intentions and start playing my rep toon, in preparation for the launch of HK-51... where are my cross-faction comms NOW? How do I communicate with my Guild INGAME, NOW, if I decide to play today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) It doesnt take 2 toons to raid... And raids on swtor take 1 hour max... Your comment is lol worthy. Great job. Only because you completely missed the point. I'll help you though, never fear. Every activity has a specific reward. Don't want to do the activity? Then you don't get the reward. Simple as that. Don't want to roll another character? Or don't want to alternatively spend credits? Sorry, but those are your only two options. Edited June 10, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) The alternate is looking up to be quite salty (Legacy supposed price). So, the reasonable way of unlocking it would be through its Quest. But, ok.. I`ll bite... Assuming I am so wet between the ears, that I take at face value what he said, and I actually believe his good intentions and start playing my rep toon, in preparation for the launch of HK-51... where are my cross-faction comms NOW? How do I communicate with my Guild INGAME, NOW, if I decide to play today? Probably like everyone else that's currently doing it does: use any of the alternate methods of communication the internet provides. There are literally dozens out there. Or, instead of rolling another character, just spend credits to unlock it. Your choice. Edited June 10, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seektravota Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 so what it's just a companion, if they want to lure us to play the other fraction which i may not like then screw this. i'm not getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Probably like everyone else that's currently doing it does: use any of the alternate methods of communication the internet provides. There are literally dozens out there. Now, you see.. here we do have a big problem. I`ll explain: Optional alts are down to the player`s own time and money, so anything they provide or not, is taken "as is" (lack of comms included), since, up until now, having alts was entirely facultative, (I am speaking of any alts, let alone cross-faction ones) or up to the player, therefore Bioware has no obligation whatsoever. If they are mandatory now, then the onus is on Bioware to provide the tools needed to roll alts on cross-faction, since we passed well into "oficially sanctioned gameplay mechanic", rather than the previous "you can do it, or you don`t". Because we were asked to roll cross-faction alts, by an official voice from within Bioware. Therefore, Bioware must provide a means of communication. And last time I checked, Mumble, teamspeak or ventrillo aren`t developed by Bioware and are out of the game software anyway. I decided to do so, but I am lacking the tools needed for it. To be in touch with my Guild, it is a simple matter of rolling an alt, then get invited in = ONE click. Where is my ONE click for my rep toon? Or, instead of rolling another character, just spend credits to unlock it. Your choice. I simply cannot take the easy way out of this. I really want to WORK for it. Problem is.. I don`t have the tools for it. Because, however you look at it... I`m not too Sith like if I just pay my way out of a predicament Edited June 10, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Now, you see.. here we do have a big problem. I`ll explain: Optional alts are down to the player`s own time and money, so anything they provide or not, is taken "as is" (lack of comms included), since, up until now, having alts was entirely facultative, (I am speaking of any alts, let alone cross-faction ones) or up to the player, therefore Bioware has no obligation whatsoever. If they are mandatory now, then the onus is on Bioware to provide the tools needed to roll alts on cross-faction, since we passed well into "oficially sanctioned gameplay mechanic", rather than the previous "you can do it, or you don`t". Because we were asked to roll cross-faction alts, by an official voice from within Bioware. Therefore, Bioware must provide a means of communication. And last time I checked, Mumble, teamspeak or ventrillo aren`t developed by Bioware and are out of the game software anyway. I decided to do so, but I am lacking the tools needed for it. To be in touch with my Guild, it is a simple matter of rolling an alt, then get invited in = ONE click. Where is my ONE click for my rep toon? I simply cannot take the easy way out of this. I really want to WORK for it. Problem is.. I don`t have the tools for it. Because, however you look at it... I`m not too Sith like if I just pay my way out of a predicament I appreciate your predicament here, but I hope you realize that this issue is so atypical and affects so very few of the overall playerbase, that you're very unlikely to change anything. It's either suck it up and play the game as it was intended or don't do it. Sorry to have to be so blunt, but your presenting your personal issue like it's a big, widely affecting ordeal and it just isn't. It just really plain is not an issue that affects more than a very small percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) I appreciate your predicament here, but I hope you realize that this issue is so atypical and affects so very few of the overall playerbase, that you're very unlikely to change anything. It's either suck it up and play the game as it was intended or don't do it. Sorry to have to be so blunt, but your presenting your personal issue like it's a big, widely affecting ordeal and it just isn't. It just really plain is not an issue that affects more than a very small percentage. So, guilded players that don`t roll cross-faction are a small percentage? Can we see some statistics? Because if it is only word for word.. we are both right and wrong at the same time, since neither of us has "metrics" to confirm or deny. I would dare to say I am actually "more right", since I am asking to play the game as the devs intend : roll an alt on the opposite faction. All I ask is to be provided means to keep in touch with my Guild. Also, the problem is still there: where are the cross-faction comms, if we were so nicely asked to play it? Bioware developed, that is. Edited June 10, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) So, guilded players that don`t roll cross-faction are a small percentage? Can we see some statistics? Because if it is only word for word.. we are both right and wrong at the same time, since neither of us has "metrics" to confirm or deny. Also, the problem is still there: where are the cross-faction comms, if we were so nicely asked to play it? Bioware developed, that is. How did you unlock species? Were you there complaining about the methods of species unlocks, too? Because it required rolling the other faction. Or spending credits. Out of all the MMOs I've ever played, not a single one has ever offered a credit unlock alternate method for specialty perks. It was always do it or don't. Now TOR is bending a little, giving that inch, and you want to take the mile. Should TOR, then, go ahead and do like other games and make it only one way? Edited June 10, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) What we did previously is not my concern. My concern is about HK-51. Races are fluff. A ranged tank / dps and a potential 6th companion running missions is not fluff. Btw.. where are those statistics that claim that very small percentage? [EDIT]And no, I didn`t complain about the races, because that was irrelevant. It gives no practical advantage or gain by unlocking them, therefore it is more or less a cosmetic choice. HK-51 is not cosmetic, therefore Bioware must come with more than a half-baked idea. Edited June 10, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 What we did previously is not my concern. My concern is about HK-51. Races are fluff. A ranged tank / dps and a potential 6th companion running missions is not fluff. You have a ranged tank / dps already. As far as being able to run 6 missions: WolfJHavok: I don't know if this has been asked before, but could you possibly share the reasoning for only allowing 5 out of 6 companions to be sent out at a time at max level? It feels like a bit of a waste of a companion. Thanks! Daniel: It was a combination of the maximum amount of economic power we wanted a player to be able to produce per hour, plus never wanting to put players in a situation where they felt like they had to choose between having their maximum missions going or actually adventuring where they needed a companion. Very unlikely that we'll be able to run any more than 5 still. Thus, he is still largely fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHobbit Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I prefer quality over quanity, i would prefer less companions but of better quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) You have a ranged tank / dps already. As far as being able to run 6 missions: Very unlikely that we'll be able to run any more than 5 still. Thus, he is still largely fluff. All nice and dandy but this is speculation and not pertaining to what I asked : being offered means of communication with my "main" faction, after being asked to roll cross-faction. Daniel: It was a combination of the maximum amount of economic power we wanted a player to be able to produce per hour, plus never wanting to put players in a situation where they felt like they had to choose between having their maximum missions going or actually adventuring where they needed a companion. So it is "send 5 and keep one". Cool. With HK-51 we`ll have 7, so it makes sense to "send 6 and keep one". 50-50% chance. [EDIT]Also, you are reading it wrong. We are past the semantics debate. We agreed that I WILL roll a republic alt, having decided that I want HK-51. Furthermore, I refuse to buy it via Legacy, because I want to enjoy the Epic Quest of getting it. Where are the INGAME communication tools with my already established Guild and opposite faction? Because I hardly think that being in a Guild places me into a small minority. Or expressing a desire to keep in touch with my Guild, in the unlikely event that I feel like rolling a cross-faction toon. Edited June 10, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Only because you completely missed the point. I'll help you though, never fear. Every activity has a specific reward. Don't want to do the activity? Then you don't get the reward. Simple as that. Don't want to roll another character? Or don't want to alternatively spend credits? Sorry, but those are your only two options. Rolling more than one character can take along time... And its not about rolling another character that annoys me the most... Its being forced to roll republic. Im happy to spend months rolling another character if i have to... What i shouldnt be forced to do is roll through terrible class stories on dodgy toons with terrible animations to do the same thing i could easily do on the imp side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunblade Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'll be ok with this when they let me choose the server to transfer to. I don't care if it is paid transfers. I took a hard choice and left my 50 behind on a low pop server. Rolled the opposite faction so have already played each faction to 50. That and more character slots so I can keep all my toons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitas Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Rolling more than one character can take along time... And its not about rolling another character that annoys me the most... Its being forced to roll republic. Im happy to spend months rolling another character if i have to... What i shouldnt be forced to do is roll through terrible class stories on dodgy toons with terrible animations to do the same thing i could easily do on the imp side. Well if HK-51 will be part of the legacy system somehow, then possibly like the other unlocks there will be a purchasable alternative. Edited June 10, 2012 by Vitas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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