Razacc Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I will melt face regardless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delanay Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Point is you should not be relying on spike damage from adrenals. You don't need them to kill people, they just make it easier, and they make it even easier for specific classes. What about classes that have no spike dmg and die easily to burst and adrenals? You need to look at the big picture, not just yourself. 1.2 was silly, and lots of us thought so, and it seems now bioware thinks that burst needs to be brought under control, amen. QFT. TTK in this game was ridiculous, especially for certain classes. Good players will adapt and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adellion Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This should even the playing field a bit more for healers who are arguably the weakest role in PvP atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digtahk Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I would hope this means that BW can give a needed boost to burst classes (operatives). To much whining on the boards was due to people getting hit with a once every 5 minute all stars aligned burst and completely ignored the fact that for the other 4 minutes the class was completely impotent..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digtahk Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This should even the playing field a bit more for healers who are arguably the weakest role in PvP atm. Complete rubbish healers are still if anything over powered in PvP, there is not one team that would go into an 8vs8 without a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Complete rubbish healers are still if anything over powered in PvP, there is not one team that would go into an 8vs8 without a healer. Its seems (forum) healers wont be happy until they can function without the support of anyone else. Funny, since they want to do that while everyone else on the team needs them... Countless times me and the healer i am guarding have held off 4 people from an objective for stupidly long periods of time (im talking minutes). Healers are not underpowered at all, thats a complete and utter joke. Edited June 7, 2012 by AKfourtyseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rassuro Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Its seems (forum) healers wont be happy until they can function without the support of anyone else. Funny, since they want to do that while everyone else on the team needs them... It seems (forum) DPS won't be happy until they can take down any healer within only a few GCD's without the support of anyone else and without using CC. Funny, since they want to do that while they want everyone else on the team to need at least two people to do anything... Edited June 7, 2012 by Rassuro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) It seems (forum) DPS won't be happy until they can take down any healer within only a few GCD's without the support of anyone else and without using CC. Funny, since they want to do that while they want everyone else on the team to need at least two people to do anything... Nice attempt, now read back to the part where i am the person guarding healers. Any healer who thinks they are the most underpowered class in PvP simply sucks. End of story. If you feel otherwise, i challenge you to put together a 8 man premade without a single healer and see what happens when you face an 8 man premade with cross healing. No class in this game can function in a vacuum and the very nature of healing as a force multiplier means it should not be able to function at anything near optimum conditions without support. Adding a single healer to a group of 7 will alter the power of that group more than adding any other class, by a large margin. Find somebody to guard you. Win. Edited June 7, 2012 by AKfourtyseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitfoxtrot Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Incoming more stalemate matches in voidstar They could've done something like lower the material cost for biochem to make crafting disposable adrenals more realistic, thus letting crafters churn them out to sell on gtn and letting other classes without biochem be able to purchase and use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngamok Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Oh but I have been on many of the receiving ends of this....Its called burst for a reason....thats the whole point.....People are missing the point here. You arent supposed to survive burst its called that for a reason....you can only do it every what..3 minutes...and you cant stack relics you can only use 1 then the other 20 seconds later...but not at the same time.... Like I said this should be a stat change not an item mechanic change. If anything I think we can all agree on is that burst is too bursty....tone down the amount that the adrenal and relic provides....for example on the battlemaster power relic..instead of increasing power by 380 tone it down to say 300....make changes like that.. The whole point of this thread is to revert back to on use not the passive or on hit with the new ones they are going to provide......nerf the amount that the relics and adrenals increase the stat. Well, from the notes, they kind of are. The power won't be on use, it will be a fixed stat albeit lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleve Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 It seems (forum) DPS won't be happy until they can take down any healer within only a few GCD's without the support of anyone else and without using CC. Funny, since they want to do that while they want everyone else on the team to need at least two people to do anything... /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcadean Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 I see a lot of ttk is ridiculous because of the relics + adrenals....No it was not...pre 1.2 ttk was fine...it was the change to expertise that was made in 1.2 that made the ttk ridiculous. I should have renamed this post petition the relics and not the adrenals sorry. the relics need to be changed back to on use, period end of story. I also see a lot of you dont need them learn to cc to kill your opponent...thats just 1 part of this....As a former WOW arena player all of these pieces to the puzzle are needed to get the kill....cc healer, pop trinkets and burn down target was how you got kills in arenas to win matches, it was all about timing and countering the opposing team. Taking these out is going to make for dumb down easy mode play...popping relics+adrenals isnt easy mode it can easily be countered if you know what your doing.... Take out the biochem adrenals...thats fine. no reason to force you into a crafting profession. but the relics need to stay on use and the wz expertise adrenals need to have the increased damage and healing added back to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuulishOne Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Take out the biochem adrenals...thats fine. no reason to force you into a crafting profession. but the relics need to stay on use and the wz expertise adrenals need to have the increased damage and healing added back to them. Actually they could've made the Biochem consumables not require Biochem to use and that would "balance" that out on it's own by making them available to everyone. The combination of relic + adrenal pop + expertise change + healer nerf definitely made TTK a huge issue when going up against an organized team (i.e. folks that know how to focus dps). This change won't affect those people at all, they'll still continue to dominate per their coordination and skill level. But it will change how the PvP game plays for the solo queue folks. They won't be able to solo burst down squishies anymore and may need to rely on more group dynamics to succeed. Hard to say if that's a good thing or not in the long run as it's the type of thing that *should* encourage better play, we all just gotta weather the forum QQ to get there and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxipad Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) While anyone with half a clue could recognise that burst and TTK needed a major raining-in (far beyond a simple taming from the boost to Expertise and the increases gained from stat increase added to the new PVP sets), I strongly feel it is important to have the mind set that said nurf to Adrenals could be a very good thing for the time being as long as there a is a solid class balance done before Rated WZs go live. It is all very well just taking adrenal potential to add to burst away but in doing so classes that needed these to perform well such as Deception/Infiltration-Assassins/Shadows and other lower played specs that need a hell of a lot of love. I'm all for change, hell I don'y know anyone in my guild that is satisfied enough to keep playing day in/day out , while we welcome the change more flippant,- off the cuff moves to try to bring balance that should be done to the high standard it needs to be done to to move the game forward and provide a bedrock for growth of the game. The game was not terrible beyond the engine issues affecting world PVP/larger instances Pre-1.2 and with the right moves the game could move in the right way. A quick fix is just that and no magic fix. The shear fact that Tanks still have the consistent damage dealing ability that they have is the key problem, especially when they have a healer guarded, this is the key problem with the game in my eyes beyond the engine issues for mass PVP. These factors coupled with the defence that many classes can put out as a pure DPS class has always been cause for concern. While a 1v1 fight situation my present one class not being too far ahead in terms of survivability that is does not flag as an issue in Biowares precious metric system. One should see the larger issue of that when it is combined with the same classes in it own team this advantage to hold points/prevent caps and score balls causes a major advantage. In no other game do you see (to the best of my knowledge) tanks capable of so much consistent damage with having high survivability coupled with we solid utility. (if the nurf to Adrenals bring this in line it is deffo a good move). This game caters far too much to terrible Turtle players, so far so it is beyond belief and if it is not sorted ASAP (as is should have been done months ago) Bioware can kiss goodbye to what is left of the more hardcore PVP community (this has been consistent;y drawn attention to but action). I truly don't even know if this games pvp developers have the skills to bring the spectrum of being balanced as it was prior to 1.2 with the mismanagement we are seeing over the last 6 months (cancelling of Rated WZ's/Termination of World PVP). It truly boggles my mind at the lack of market research of other game systems and other game dynamics that Lucarts/EA/Bioware/Mythic did. An entirely rushed game was thrown out with deep problem with either its coding or more deeper in its coding of their re-program of the hero engine (how could there not have been high capacity tests of Ilum and other such areas done in Alpha, prob a 'we will fix it later attitude'. Mara/Sent and Pyro Vanguard/Powertech were always very very strong in the right hands (Hell Mara/Sent didn't get GBTF/Undying Rage till the last build of Beta because of all the bad players crying on the forums if memory serves so instead of a prop they got a massive performance push over). Performance wise these classe pre-1.2 patch just not as widely played until the FOTM crew moved on from the Operative/Scoundral/Sorc/Sage nurfs forcing those who wanted the strongest specs/classes to give them a better chance in PVP. For the sake of the game I I hope 1.3 is not rushed out, the game is at a very crutial time now and if the class balance to PVP is not done right people will just finally throw in the towel and go play something else, God knows many that were here playing day in day out, already are... TLDR: We at Kyram think that this move could be good but the main focus should be class balance. To this end Nurf tank damage when in guard stances/forms. This would really stop horrid and unskilled turtle play and boost the playability of pure DPS classes but bring the defence down on many of them. Balance in all things... P.s how Gabe still has a job is beyond me. Edited June 8, 2012 by Maxipad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shauneh Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Although it is late for us EU gamers, I have decided to reply to my GM here (mind his spelling/grammar he hasn’t slept for over 24 hours). It is 3am I am watching Celtic v Heat and can’t help but post a reply to this. My background in gaming is ~top 100 in world at Halo 2 and moved to MMO’s where I have been paid to play across many games. I have never played a game as imbalanced and catering to the crying public as this game. We were told Bioware’s metrics are saying that Mara’s, Tank Sin’s and hybrid sorcs with pulls offer huge utility setups are only winning at a 50/50 rating, this is a woeful excuse not to give someone a nerf. Past 11pm on my server there is one group of people that run this same setup and never loose unless we have a very strong PUG setup to go with. Most of our guild have quit because it’s not skill based, its flavour of the month rotations of buttons 1-2-3-4. The reason you had a huge amount of people moaning (in beta and pre 1.2) about their classes is because they couldn’t play them properly and would not put the skill into playing it. I didn’t think I needed buffing as an operative healer pre 1.2 and now it is OP and I will continue to roll it because I won’t switch armour now. Not only are people refusing to learn any theorycrafting for their class, it seems it’s so imbalanced that people are no longer going onto the websites to check spreadsheets of what their best setups should be. This is a standard in MMO’s that you do this; you can’t copy the WoW setup and then not expect this to be needed for PvP. So now all these players who cannot play are making sure everyone either has an OP/imbalanced/unplayable spec or has to role the FOTM to ensure wins. Skill should determine wins and when rated comes our setups will dominate due to using these resources we have collected and teaching our team what to look for in each situation. Don’t start to reward these lazy people who will not research their class with buffs to make sure they have an easy win. An example of this is: In other games when you use an immunity or speed you drop the (for this instance we will say flag to mean everything) this should reset it in this game. An immunity/speed boost should be cancelled upon pickup and then the flag dropped upon acquiring a speed boost. A close example would be the fact that if (as an operative) I was to cloak my team that would reset the ball. Why is it then okay for a marauder to give a speed buff while that then also pops their immunity buffs for an easy score from the half way line? Easy 6 scores for the team and move onto the next. Nerf it, neft it with fire or have your elite PvP (who pay for play/tournaments) will leave for GW2 for sPvP/Open world PvP with dynamic PvE events that are more fun and more eSports focused. And as fickle as the world of gaming is eSports stays because of its dominance in skill and its leagues, I won’t be playing much longer (and my whole guild) unless your focus changes to balance and skill related play and stop using your metrics to balance. You need to pay top players who understand how chain CC, utility and damage should be balanced. This is my input and has been compiled from talks I have had across Europe with a lot of other players. Feel free to reply with a dev post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdouardHolyhawk Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 /threadbump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcyfR Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Its the cycle of things. Nerf healing and people complain about burst. The lose of burst will make healing OP once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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