1.3 Maras/Sents no nerfs?

[Superawesomerman]

Focus/Rage sents/maras get damage mitigaiton bonuses (they can get some from the upgraded stance in combat/carnage tree and some from the rage/focus tree) - they also get a cooldown reduction on UR/GbtF. Furthermore, they have force crush (and whatever the mirror for sentinels is) - which is an additional ranged attack.

 

Usually, Focus/Rage maras/sents keep away from group combat until they have a full stack of shockwaves then they'll jump in and try to hit as many people with it as possible - after that, they'll use their 10m gap closer (to gain the speed boost), followed by force crush and switch to an enemy on the outskirts until they're fully prepped for another huge smash.

 

Actually the only thing that really makes a difference is the shii-chi stance, but I guess 4% isn't that small an amount.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Exactly what about a Pyro PT suddenly gets better in a pack that a Carnage Mara cannot also take advantage of?

 

I feel my Carny stays up a lot longer thanks to 30 second Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward, Obfuscate against other melee, Camo to reposition, and UR to stall for heals. In comparison, my Pyro will pop Energy Shield and likely still die if they truly wish to continue focusing him, lol.

 

Or do you mean in a pack OF Pyro PTs, all staggering taunts? Because that happens like... once every 50 WZs lol.

 

As for Deception Assassin, it will die pretty much as soon as it's noticed unless you can run away and restealth. Great at 1v1, but falls short outside of the burst phase.

 

Sniper, I will give you. I have a lowbie one of those too, but I won't try to judge based on that experience. Just judging by Snipers at the high end, though, all of those defenses don't stop them from getting wrecked by most competent players.

 

...

 

Okay I am really tired of you trying to get Sentinels/Marauders nerfed.

 

1. You don't play a Sentinel or a Marauder. You play a Pyro.

 

As you said here.

 

You probably wouldn't, as you seem to think that Pyro PT can kill anything and anyone under the sun, at any distance, w/ 0 risk.

 

Those of us who play the class actually know what it's capable of. It's strong, but balanced since it's so weak defensively.

 

Also, most melee ACs have a spec (usually the most popular one) that will tear a Pyro PT apart when played properly.

 

Pyro PT is a tank/healer killer. DPS classes can kill Pyros if they know how to keep them controlled.

 

Your main (last you stated) was a Tankasin:

 

Well, as a BM Pyro... it is kind of boring after a while.

 

I mean, you really only use so many abilities compared to most other classes. My PT is the only class I play (out of Sorc, PT, Assassin, Marauder, Sniper) that still has room left over for more keybinds. <.<

 

At least that's my opinion. Having fun on the tanky-tank Sin lately.

 

Here

 

You have a grudge against Sentinels and are doing everything you can think of to make them look bad so that they get nerfed. Well it won't work. BioWare has the numbers and we, the real Sentinel/Marauders have the common sense to shine light on these attempts.

[Seravis]

Exactly what about a Pyro PT suddenly gets better in a pack that a Carnage Mara cannot also take advantage of?

 

I feel my Carny stays up a lot longer thanks to 30 second Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward, Obfuscate against other melee, Camo to reposition, and UR to stall for heals. In comparison, my Pyro will pop Energy Shield and likely still die if they truly wish to continue focusing him, lol.

 

Or do you mean in a pack OF Pyro PTs, all staggering taunts? Because that happens like... once every 50 WZs lol.

 

As for Deception Assassin, it will die pretty much as soon as it's noticed unless you can run away and restealth. Great at 1v1, but falls short outside of the burst phase.

 

Sniper, I will give you. I have a lowbie one of those too, but I won't try to judge based on that experience. Just judging by Snipers at the high end, though, all of those defenses don't stop them from getting wrecked by most competent players.

 

Not saying they are overpowered but Pyro PT stack incredibly well compared to any other class(Tanksins and Snipers might come close).

 

5 pyros + 3 healers is a solid comp.

Incrediblely high upfront burst from 5 classes that have basically 100% uptime, and they do very solid burst damage at 30m. They don't need to to go into melee range so they should never be all taken out by a single AoE mez. Pull > Charge. Most importantly you can't really target their healers as between 5 taunters combined with the brutal burst 5 PTs can dish out you can't ignore the PTs.

 

5 Marauders + 3 healers is a very weak comp.

All damage is backloaded. To focus a target all 5 marauders need to be clumped onto the same target, and this makes them incredible vulnerable to any aoe CC. Aoe roots being off the resolve system makes it even worse. Having over half your team taken out by a single aoe mez/root will lose you the game. You can safely ignore Marauders due to their vulnerability to CC, and minimal ability to protect their healers, and their damage is back loaded so you have a decent window of opportunity before they are a threat.

 

Simply put Marauders may be very strong, but they stack horribly compared to classes like Pyrotechs. having 1-2 around for Predation and to be a disruption to the enemy ranks is very viable though. Being very vulnerable to even soft CC like roots combined with AoE mezzes shutting down teams that stack melee is the reason Marauders will never get stacked.

[Varicite]

I stated very clearly that I play a Carnage Marauder.

 

I also have a BM Pyro PT, a BM Tankassin, and recently deleted a BM Sorc. I'm not sure what was confusing about that, as I've stated it many times in this thread alone. /shrug

 

You may want to actually check the posting dates of those things you quoted, as they very clearly tell the story of my journey from Sorc to Pyro to Tankassin to Sniper to Mara. The last one you posted was from when my Tankassin had hit BM, about a month and half ago.

 

I've also actually been defending your class, which you fail to notice, but I will NOT sit around and lie about mechanics. Marauders do indeed have stronger defenses than any other DPS spec in the entire game, and I don't feel that ALL of it is absolutely necessary.

 

No, I don't want them nerfed into the ground, as I am rather enjoying my Marauder, and have invested a lot of resources into it. That doesn't mean that I'm just going to turn a blind eye to balance, though.

 

As you can see, I play a LOT of classes, and I've played them at endgame. I feel this gives me a pretty good understanding of what they are capable of, offensively and defensively, from multiple perspectives.

 

It's easy enough to deal w/ a Mara as a Tankassin, but not as a Sorc. A Pyro has about a 40/60 shot at beating one, and I won't comment on the Sniper, because it's still a baby.

 

Any more dirt you'd like to fling, or can we go back to talking like adults now?

Edited June 19, 2012 by Varicite

[Coldin]

.*snip*

 

Whether he has a grudge or not, there's certain aspects of the Sentinel/Marauder class that are quite powerful. Either every class needs to be brought up to their level, or Sentinels need some toning down.

[Varicite]

Not saying they are overpowered but Pyro PT stack incredibly well compared to any other class(Tanksins and Snipers might come close).

 

5 pyros + 3 healers is a solid comp.

Incrediblely high upfront burst from 5 classes that have basically 100% uptime, and they do very solid burst damage at 30m. They don't need to to go into melee range so they should never be all taken out by a single AoE mez. Pull > Charge. Most importantly you can't really target their healers as between 5 taunters combined with the brutal burst 5 PTs can dish out you can't ignore the PTs.

 

5 Marauders + 3 healers is a very weak comp.

All damage is backloaded. To focus a target all 5 marauders need to be clumped onto the same target, and this makes them incredible vulnerable to any aoe CC. Aoe roots being off the resolve system makes it even worse. Having over half your team taken out by a single aoe mez/root will lose you the game. You can safely ignore Marauders due to their vulnerability to CC, and minimal ability to protect their healers, and their damage is back loaded so you have a decent window of opportunity before they are a threat.

 

Simply put Marauders may be very strong, but they stack horribly compared to classes like Pyrotechs. having 1-2 around for Predation and to be a disruption to the enemy ranks is very viable though. Being very vulnerable to even soft CC like roots combined with AoE mezzes shutting down teams that stack melee is the reason Marauders will never get stacked.

 

Ah, I see what you're trying to say. I agree that Marauders have terrible synergy compared to almost every other class in the game, lol.

 

I would put maybe a Carnage Mara and Anni Mara on a team, but beyond that you're gimping yourself. I can agree w/ what you've said here.

[Coldin]

Ah, I see what you're trying to say. I agree that Marauders have terrible synergy compared to almost every other class in the game, lol.

 

I would put maybe a Carnage Mara and Anni Mara on a team, but beyond that you're gimping yourself. I can agree w/ what you've said here.

 

I guess that's makes a little bit of sense. Stacking marauders isn't as useful as stacking other classes.

 

But a team with one marauder is a lot more powerful than a team without any marauders.

[SinnedWill]

Exactly what about a Pyro PT suddenly gets better in a pack that a Carnage Mara cannot also take advantage of?

 

I feel my Carny stays up a lot longer thanks to 30 second Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward, Obfuscate against other melee, Camo to reposition, and UR to stall for heals. In comparison, my Pyro will pop Energy Shield and likely still die if they truly wish to continue focusing him, lol.

 

Or do you mean in a pack OF Pyro PTs, all staggering taunts? Because that happens like... once every 50 WZs lol.

 

As for Deception Assassin, it will die pretty much as soon as it's noticed unless you can run away and restealth. Great at 1v1, but falls short outside of the burst phase.

 

Sniper, I will give you. I have a lowbie one of those too, but I won't try to judge based on that experience. Just judging by Snipers at the high end, though, all of those defenses don't stop them from getting wrecked by most competent players.

 

Yes, Pyro P-tech packs staggering taunts and all of them dropping enemies quick - happens a lot (for me) since I usually roll with 2 other Pyros and a sorcerer healer as a premade. Albeit, even when I PuG on my pyro, there's usually AT LEAST one other pyro P-tech (albeit odds are they're not as competent as my guildies are and inability to vocally communicate with them tends to lead to imperfect taunt-staggers).

 

Problems carnage have over other mara specs is the NEED (mostly due to very short offensive windows due to gore proc's short duration) to use force camo offensively to actually dish out damage - if we could save our force camo for escapes and/or opportunities to be healed like annihilation/rage tend to, I'd have to agree that EVERY marauder spec has way too much with UR + camo - as it stands (and apparently will stand, with the changes to carnage coming in 1.3), carnage certainly needs all of its cooldowns. Carnage marauder DPS WITHOUT gore proc windows is MODERATE sustained (my madness sorcerer easily does better sustained) - and still requires that you be in an enemy's face (melees will always take more focus-fire/AoE damage/AoE stuns/mezzes/cc/taunts/etc. for this). And it takes a LOT of effort for a dedicated healer to keep a carny alive (even with cloak of pain/saber ward active).

 

Snipers take a lot of skill to play well at higher levels - the ones you see getting wrecked are likely those that recently hit 50 (there certainly was a flood of them shortly following the marauder rerollers) - so they're likely still specced as marksman (which certainly performed well in 10-49 brackets, but lacks versatility to take on more classes/specs) and they most likely aren't well adapted to sniper's playstyle for the diversity found in lv. 50 warzones. Engineer tends to work best against melees and in warzones with significant clustering, but lethality gets very fun (and highly effective against many classes) late-game.

 

Lastly, deception assassins are great pack-runners (doesn't even need to be with other deception sins) - between their stun-locks, their burst dps, and their AoE taunting, I'd say they're one of the best specs for 1v1's and small group battles facing a maximum of around 3 enemies (I didn't stay deception for long when I last tried it out, but they work great with pyro/AP p-techs, rage/veng juggs, all assassins, concealment ops, and even *gasp* tracer-monkey mercs -yes, I said it!!-.).

[Seravis]

I guess that's makes a little bit of sense. Stacking marauders isn't as useful as stacking other classes.

 

But a team with one marauder is a lot more powerful than a team without any marauders.

 

Absolutely they have place in many team comps. But why would you ask for nerfs to a class you only take 1-2 max of for Rated WZs?

 

Any class that needs "tweaking" are the one you can viably stack 4+ on a team and be competitive.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Seravis

[Varicite]

Absolutely they have place in many team comps. But why would you ask for nerfs to a class you only take 1-2 max of for Rated WZs?

 

Any class that needs "tweaking" are the one you can viably stack 4+ on a team and be competitive.

 

DING DING DING!

 

And this is the number one reason why I'm not actually calling for nerfs, lol. When RWZs come out, it will be a different ball game.

 

This, on top of the 1.3 changes to burst are going to shake things up in the PvP metagame a LOT, bringing Merc healers back to the forefront (maybe wishful thinking, lol) along w/ more "outlast" comps.

 

I am concerned, however, that the nature of Force Camo / UR will directly benefit outlast comps, as well as the Rage mechanic itself which is more suited to longevity than most other resource mechanics. I'm interested to see what becomes of Annihilation in high end play - if it will really be relegated to an interrupt-bot once Healers figure out where their Dispel button is.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Varicite

[Seravis]

DING DING DING!

 

And this is the number one reason why I'm not actually calling for nerfs, lol. When RWZs come out, it will be a different ball game.

 

This, on top of the 1.3 changes to burst are going to shake things up in the PvP metagame a LOT, bringing Merc healers back to the forefront along w/ more "outlast" comps.

 

I am concerned, however, that the nature of Force Camo / UR will directly benefit outlast comps, as well as the Rage mechanic itself which is more suited to longevity than most other resource mechanics. I'm interested to see what becomes of Annihilation in high end play - if it will really be relegated to an interrupt-bot once Healers figure out where their Dispel button is.

 

Force Camo / UR will only benefit outlast comps if the enemy team is retarded enough to not focus the healer first. Gaurd/Taunt is far more effective for Outlast comps than either of those abilities. Marauder though work extremely well as the wrecking ball part of outlast comps though as their damage scales very well the longer the fight lasts.

 

Annihilation has 0 place in high end play :/ Dispels just shut them down too hard and they lack the anti kiting tools(and 80% predation) of carnage. A shame because I LOVE playing annihilation and will be running it until Rated WZ teams learn to dispel. Hopefully Annihilation will get some dispel protection at a later date so they have some viability. I know we won't get it anytime soon because bad healers think Annihilation is some uncounterable DPS machine.

[Varicite]

Force Camo / UR will only benefit outlast comps if the enemy team is retarded enough to not focus the healer first. Gaurd/Taunt is far more effective for Outlast comps than either of those abilities. Marauder though work extremely well as the wrecking ball part of outlast comps though as their damage scales very well the longer the fight lasts.

 

Annihilation has 0 place in high end play :/ Dispels just shut them down too hard and they lack the anti kiting tools(and 80% predation) of carnage. A shame because I LOVE playing annihilation and will be running it until Rated WZ teams learn to dispel. Hopefully Annihilation will get some dispel protection at a later date so they have some viability. I know we won't get it anytime soon because bad healers think Annihilation is some uncounterable DPS machine.

 

I bolded the part that I was mostly thinking, though UR / Force Camo are still very powerful tools provided (as you said) your healer is alive to heal you through them, lol.

 

In good comps, I don't see healers going down nearly as fast as they do now. Even right now, a good tank / heal combo is an absolute nightmare to deal w/, but as DPS become more coordinated I could see this being a lot less of an issue.

 

I hear that a lot about Anni, and my jury's still out until I see if Healers ever get out of the "zomg can't waste a GCD on Dispel" mentality. : P

[SinnedWill]

Actually the only thing that really makes a difference is the shii-chi stance, but I guess 4% isn't that small an amount.

 

Shii-cho form comes with a 3% damage reduction - automatically. In Carnage tree, you can increase its damage reduction by an additional 2% with 2 points. In rage tree, the same talent that reduces UR's cooldown by 30 seconds also gives you 2% MORE - that's a total of 7% damage reduction to ALL damage (including internal/elemental). You also get a 40% movment speed increase following obliterate (for 5s), and an additional 10m ranged attack (force crush).

 

2% damage reduction is very noticable (I have it on my madness sorcerer), so 7% is quite significant (particularly since many force/tech attacks and DoT's happen to be elemental/internal). The fact that the way rage marauder playstyle happens to require less melee attacks (slightly) compared to carnage helps with your survivability - you can throw force crush on a warrior/knight/PT/VG, obliterate to an enemy then run off and LoS until you've gained full shockwave stacks makes rage more capable of being a hit-and-run spec (more survivability). And then you have a 45s cooldown (with 4pc set bonus) of UR (yes, I understand it's predictable in when it gets used and against any good group - they'll stun you and burst you down before you can use it at all, but this is true for all marauder specs - but you'll have it available more often than the other specs in situations where it might be needed that you actually CAN USE IT).

 

Lastly, I'm well aware that force camo tends to get used quite a bit by rage specced marauders for positioning to maximize targets for an empowered smash, but with the speed bonus following obliterate, it's not always necessary. You can choose to save it defensively (either to retreat or if you have a healer - get healed up with less risk). Carnage marauders, on the other hand, pretty much HAVE TO use force camo offensively (due to how short the window is for gore procs and the cooldown time on it - gore proc windows are the only time carnage marauders will deal very good damage - without a gore proc, they hit as hard as a madness sorcerer does with DoT's and shock alone - which is pretty poor, btw, lol). The loss of force camo as a defensive ability leaves UR (again, this is easily countered/bypassed) as the only real defensive ability that can buy them time for a healer to save their life.

 

So... yes, carnage marauder certainly is squishier than rage marauder.

Edited June 19, 2012 by SinnedWill

[Coldin]

Absolutely they have place in many team comps. But why would you ask for nerfs to a class you only take 1-2 max of for Rated WZs?

 

Any class that needs "tweaking" are the one you can viably stack 4+ on a team and be competitive.

 

I said it isn't as useful. Doesn't mean groups won't take more than one or two. Even if their buffs don't stack, marauders still get advantages is rather high DPS, good interrupts, and some of the best defensive cooldowns.

 

Any balanced team is probably going to have a diverse group. Still doesn't mean some classes aren't overpowered and could use a small nerf.

 

You give up a lot of other useful tools stacking any class 4 times.

 

Marauders need adjustments because their defensive cooldowns are simply too good, and essentially gives them multiple lives in a fight.

[Seravis]

I said it isn't as useful. Doesn't mean groups won't take more than one or two. Even if their buffs don't stack, marauders still get advantages is rather high DPS, good interrupts, and some of the best defensive cooldowns.

 

Any balanced team is probably going to have a diverse group. Still doesn't mean some classes aren't overpowered and could use a small nerf.

 

You give up a lot of other useful tools stacking any class 4 times.

 

Marauders need adjustments because their defensive cooldowns are simply too good, and essentially gives them multiple lives in a fight.

 

How can you call a class "overpowered" when you will likely only see 1-2 on top-level teams. That alone should say everything about their "overpoweredness" in a group PVP setting. I don't even know how to better explain it as that is practically the definition of balance! Good enough to be viable to bring, but not good enough to stack.

 

As for 1v1 Marauders are still outclassed by Tanksins(who counter everyone). They also lose quite a few 1v1 match ups. SO they sure aren't "overpowered" there either.

 

How can you justify nerfing them? All I hear from your argument is "Marauders have more survivability then my x class, and that is unacceptable". Not all classes are suppose to have the same levels of DPS/Survivability/CC/Utility./Healing/Etc.

 

As for stacking viability I already explained it before. 5 PT + 3 healer or even 5 Tanksin + 3 healer is FAR more viable than 5 Marauder + 3 healer.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Seravis

[Coldin]

How can you call a class "overpowered" when you will likely only see 1-2 on top-level teams. That alone should say everything about their "overpoweredness" in a group PVP setting. I don't even know how to better explain it as that is practically the definition of balance! Good enough to be viable to bring, but not good enough to stack.

 

As for 1v1 Marauders are still outclassed by Tanksins(who counter everyone). They also lose quite a few 1v1 match ups. SO they sure aren't "overpowered" there either.

 

How can you justify nerfing them? All I hear from your argument is "Marauders have more survivability then my x class, and that is unacceptable". Not all classes are suppose to have the same levels of DPS/Survivability/CC/Utility./Healing/Etc.

 

As for stacking viability I already explained it before. 5 PT + 3 healer or even 5 Tanksin + 3 healer is FAR more viable than 5 Marauder + 3 healer.

 

Marauders have more suvibaility than nearly every class. Tank Shadows/Assassin might come close, but they need (and are getting) an adjustment too. The main point is that Marauders get to have some of the best damage, coupled with the best survivability. It's part of the same problem with Powertechs too. Great damage, good utility, decent survivability.

 

You seem to think that just because a group of 8 doesn't need more than 2 of a class, it isn't overpowered. All it really means, is that another class is edging it out. In this case, it's 5 Powertechs, or 5 Tank Assassins, both classes that are also considered the top classes in warzones.

 

And while you think 5 Powertechs beats out having 5 Marauders, I'll kindly disagree. They're different classes, and Marauders can move around the battlefield much better than a Powertech. Marauders are much better at getting you a score in huttball for instance. Powertechs are better at stopping a ball carrier. Really, you're better off having a mix of the two classes.

 

Really, the only reason we're even talking about it's not as good to stack up Marauders, is mainly because their group wide buffs won't stack. A team with 5 of them is still going to be very good, and may keep those buffs up more often. Your team just might better off swapping your a Marauder for a different class, simply so your team is more capable of adapting to different situations. You can make the same argument for any class. It still doesn't mean one doesn't need some adjustments.

[KiranK]

Marauders have more suvibaility than nearly every class. Tank Shadows/Assassin might come close, but they need (and are getting) an adjustment too. The main point is that Marauders get to have some of the best damage, coupled with the best survivability. It's part of the same problem with Powertechs too. Great damage, good utility, decent survivability.

 

False. They have less survivability than a tank shadow/assassin by far and even less than a tank Guardian. All of their survival tools are CDs, which aren't up all the time, and are only clutch abilities. They keep you alive just long enough to get one extra kill, then it's curtains. They take more damage than other classes by far, given that they're medium armor wearers and melees, so they have be in the thick of the fight. They have some of the best damage, but be honest with yourself, if they didn't the class would be pointless. It's a glass canon with a few clutch buttons, not a wrecking ball.

 

And while you think 5 Powertechs beats out having 5 Marauders, I'll kindly disagree. They're different classes, and Marauders can move around the battlefield much better than a Powertech. Marauders are much better at getting you a score in huttball for instance. Powertechs are better at stopping a ball carrier. Really, you're better off having a mix of the two classes.

 

Pyros are WAY worse than Maras. They take much longer to kill, have good burst AND good sustained, and they can guard allies. They can also leap AND pull. They have better utility, better survivability, and comparable DPS. You can have your 5 mara team.

[Coldin]

False. They have less survivability than a tank shadow/assassin by far and even less than a tank Guardian. All of their survival tools are CDs, which aren't up all the time, and are only clutch abilities. They keep you alive just long enough to get one extra kill, then it's curtains. They take more damage than other classes by far, given that they're medium armor wearers and melees, so they have be in the thick of the fight. They have some of the best damage, but be honest with yourself, if they didn't the class would be pointless. It's a glass canon with a few clutch buttons, not a wrecking ball.

 

 

 

Pyros are WAY worse than Maras. They take much longer to kill, have good burst AND good sustained, and they can guard allies. They can also leap AND pull. They have better utility, better survivability, and comparable DPS. You can have your 5 mara team.

 

Can we at least compare same specs? DPS versus DPS?

 

Yes, tanks tend to have more survivability. Not a lot more honestly, but more. But DPS specs are a lot more squishy.

 

Pyrotechs don't get the ability to leap. That's tank specs only. They don't take that long to kill. Just longer than trying to kill a sage. They can't guard allies either unless they are in tank spec, and any Pyro is not going to be doing very good DPS if they aren't getting their burns from the Combustion stance.

 

The thing is, Marauder cooldowns are just on very short timers, and very effective while they're active. Using those to get one extra kill is what can turn the tide in a fight.

 

The only nerfs I think are need is for is a healing debuff when they use Guarded by the Force. (This way they can't simply get healed all the way back up while they're immune to damage). And for Force Camouflage to be on a 2 minute cooldown, so it's comparable to the vanish skills of Shadows and Scoundrels. Then further balances could go from there.

 

Pyrotechs need to be looked at too, so don't think I'm just singling marauders out. Marauders just happen to be the topic of this thread.

[Varicite]

False. They have less survivability than a tank shadow/assassin by far and even less than a tank Guardian. All of their survival tools are CDs, which aren't up all the time, and are only clutch abilities. They keep you alive just long enough to get one extra kill, then it's curtains.

 

Cloak of Pain lasts 30 seconds, reduces 20% damage. 1 minute cd. It's up nearly half the time if it's being used intelligently.

 

There's nothing "clutch" about 20% damage reduction w/ 30 second uptime popped when you're at 90% hp, and then Saber Ward stacking w/ it which you pop at 70% hp if you're fighting any class that might give you trouble.

 

They take more damage than other classes by far, given that they're medium armor wearers and melees, so they have be in the thick of the fight.

 

DPS Scoundrels and Deception Assassins would like a word with you about your delusions. : )

 

Also, it's not "medium armor" when you stack a 20% damage reduction cooldown on top of it w/ nearly 50% uptime.

 

They have some of the best damage, but be honest with yourself, if they didn't the class would be pointless. It's a glass canon with a few clutch buttons, not a wrecking ball.

 

Welcome to how every other melee DPS in the game feels, only they actually DO only have a few clutch buttons.

 

You have FIVE. That's not a few. (Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward, Force Camo, Undying Rage, Obfuscate).

 

Pyros are WAY worse than Maras. They take much longer to kill, have good burst AND good sustained, and they can guard allies. They can also leap AND pull. They have better utility, better survivability, and comparable DPS. You can have your 5 mara team.

 

Wow, it's been a while since I saw that elusive 31/31/31 spec Powertech, but you're right, it does need to be nerfed.

 

Kidding aside, can we at least TRY to be honest while discussing classes?

[BobaFaceroll]

Pyros are WAY worse than Maras. They take much longer to kill, have good burst AND good sustained, and they can guard allies. They can also leap AND pull. They have better utility, better survivability, and comparable DPS. You can have your 5 mara team.

 

You need to use Ion Gas Cylinder to Guard someone as a Powertech. Pyros use Combustible Gas Cylinder, they cannot Guard anyone.

 

You can't leap as a Powertech without being deep down the tank line (21 points). Pyros cannot leap.

[Seravis]

Marauders have more suvibaility than nearly every class. Tank Shadows/Assassin might come close, but they need (and are getting) an adjustment too. The main point is that Marauders get to have some of the best damage, coupled with the best survivability. It's part of the same problem with Powertechs too. Great damage, good utility, decent survivability.

 

You seem to think that just because a group of 8 doesn't need more than 2 of a class, it isn't overpowered. All it really means, is that another class is edging it out. In this case, it's 5 Powertechs, or 5 Tank Assassins, both classes that are also considered the top classes in warzones.

 

And while you think 5 Powertechs beats out having 5 Marauders, I'll kindly disagree. They're different classes, and Marauders can move around the battlefield much better than a Powertech. Marauders are much better at getting you a score in huttball for instance. Powertechs are better at stopping a ball carrier. Really, you're better off having a mix of the two classes.

 

Really, the only reason we're even talking about it's not as good to stack up Marauders, is mainly because their group wide buffs won't stack. A team with 5 of them is still going to be very good, and may keep those buffs up more often. Your team just might better off swapping your a Marauder for a different class, simply so your team is more capable of adapting to different situations. You can make the same argument for any class. It still doesn't mean one doesn't need some adjustments.

 

 

You JUST agreed with me about how Marauders don't stack well compared to other classes like an hour ago! Now you are argueing they stack well? What the hell man?

 

I guess that's makes a little bit of sense. Stacking marauders isn't as useful as stacking other classes.

 

But a team with one marauder is a lot more powerful than a team without any marauders.

 

What kind of crusade are you on to get Marauders nerfed? What are they paying you lol? You already admit that there are other classes that are better to stack, and even that stacking marauders isn't an ideal team. So why not get them nerfed first before Marauders? Or better yet buff everyone else to be as strong as them?

 

Marauders are good enough to viably take 1-2 in an 8 man premade, but they aren't good enough to make it viable to take 4+. This describes the current situation Marauders are in, and this situation is practically the definition of MMO balance They do a fantastic job of filling their role in PVP, but they don't do it so well that its viable to stack them in favor of other classes that fill other roles. As far as I am concerned Marauders are the most "balanced" class due to the above.

 

Why would you even try to "tweak" Marauders when there are classes that aren't viable to take even 1 of, or other class that ARE viable to take 4+.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Seravis

[Varicite]

Why would you even try to "tweak" Marauders when there are classes that aren't viable to take even 1 of, or other class that ARE viable to take 4+.

 

While I do feel that Maras could use a bit of tweaking, I can definitely agree w/ this sentiment.

 

I don't think they need to be adjusted before at least trying to bring some weaker specs back into the PvP metagame.

[Coldin]

*snip*

 

Are you even reading what I'm typing?

[Coldin]

While I do feel that Maras could use a bit of tweaking, I can definitely agree w/ this sentiment.

 

I don't think they need to be adjusted before at least trying to bring some weaker specs back into the PvP metagame.

 

Gotta start somewhere right?

 

I mean, you either lower one class down, or you bring the rest up. My preference at the moment is to bring marauders down to about the same level defense wise as the other classes. The suggestions I presented would still make their defenses very good compared to other classes.

 

Pyro's DPS needs tweaked down a bit too. Unless you want all DPS classes brought up to 500k damage per warzone, with 5k burst.

 

Myself, I don't want that.

[Varicite]

Gotta start somewhere right?

 

I mean, you either lower one class down, or you bring the rest up. My preference at the moment is to bring marauders down to about the same level defense wise as the other classes. The suggestions I presented would still make their defenses very good compared to other classes.

 

Pyro's DPS needs tweaked down a bit too. Unless you want all DPS classes brought up to 500k damage per warzone, with 5k burst.

 

Myself, I don't want that.

 

Pyro burst is being tweaked down by 1.3's hit to burst mechanics, which is really what people are talking about when they talk about Pyro DPS.

 

I don't know a lot of DPS classes that can't do 500k damage in a WZ when fighting against guarded healers and not dying themselves, and 5k burst is really not a lot at the moment.

 

Either way, I'm waiting to see how the 1.3 changes play out before I decide how I feel about Pyro burst potential, though right now it's a bit higher than what I think was intended. /shrug

 

I guess my opinion is that I'd much rather see the other ACs in a Marauder-like situation, having 3 viable trees instead of only 1.