hollowztips Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) there is amazing mara/sents, good mara/sents, mara/sents, and bad Mara/Sents. the FEW good and amazing sents that actually care to put together a good rotation and get good gear i guaruntee you have to be spaming buttons all warzone to either stay alive or keep the DPS CLOSE to other strong, skilled, and geared players. if u take away watchmen ur just gonna get a bunch of focus bombing sents and if they are smart they will make a bunch of focus bombing guardians Edited June 11, 2012 by hollowztips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 IMHO you should not be able to heal while these two things are active. That would resolve a lot of the problems. Then there will be a problem with pve and them being a waste of skills there. Bosses and mobs will do a ton of damage to a marauder before they can get camo off so them being healed in stealth makes it so they don't have to stay out of the fight for 4 seconds and with UD popped a healer won't be wasting precious resources on the mara because they see him low. Losing a person in pve is never a good thing no matter the role. If this is a case of focus fire and a mara pops UD and there is a healer around this is where it works like a mages ice block and you have to switch targets and let it wear off then switch back or just keep the mara stunned the whole time, a few players should be able to wreck a marauder down in the duration of like 5 seconds if they know what they're doing. I guess not using tactics or strategy makes things oped huh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Yeah classes are different for a reason. My classes short comings is the lack of a true hard cc or any real control which can be one of the most valuable things in a group play pvp situation or the way my class synergizes to help bring the rest of my group up to be so much better... I'll take the aoe mez over a hard stun. I also think being able to root someone for 9 seconds straight (carnage tree) counts as control. I also think Predation speed buff counts as team support/synergy. I recently rerolled on Fatman and finally made myself a marauder. I find the class is very powerful and fun to play in pvp. However, we have our weaknesses. Our medium armor melts pretty quickly when not supported by cooldowns. A good ranged player can really give us problems. And a well-timed cc by the person we are fighting can really kill our dps. Overall, I'd say it's a pretty balanced class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 ... If this is a case of focus fire and a mara pops UD and there is a healer around this is where it works like a mages ice block and you have to switch targets and let it wear off then switch back or just keep the mara stunned the whole time, a few players should be able to wreck a marauder down in the duration of like 5 seconds if they know what they're doing. I guess not using tactics or strategy makes things oped huh... So the tactic to employ here is this: Nearly kill the marauder to make him pop UD, and then focus his healer instead. So why not just kill the healer in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) If this is a case of focus fire and a mara pops UD and there is a healer around this is where it works like a mages ice block and you have to switch targets and let it wear off then switch back or just keep the mara stunned the whole time, a few players should be able to wreck a marauder down in the duration of like 5 seconds if they know what they're doing. I guess not using tactics or strategy makes things oped huh... No, it's not like that AT ALL. It would be like that if mages could run around in the Ice Block, doing full damage to anyone in their vicinity for the next 5 seconds while knowing the whole time that after UR wears off, they can just pop a medpac and have more health than they had before they used UR. Also, Ice Block was on a 5 minute CD, not 90 seconds. (90 seconds, the exact CD of a WZ Medpac... hmmm...) It would be like a Pally bubble, before it got nerfed to only be able to do half damage while being completely immune. Hmm, I wonder why that change was made..... Edited June 11, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'll take the aoe mez over a hard stun. I also think being able to root someone for 9 seconds straight (carnage tree) counts as control. I also think Predation speed buff counts as team support/synergy. I recently rerolled on Fatman and finally made myself a marauder. I find the class is very powerful and fun to play in pvp. However, we have our weaknesses. Our medium armor melts pretty quickly when not supported by cooldowns. A good ranged player can really give us problems. And a well-timed cc by the person we are fighting can really kill our dps. Overall, I'd say it's a pretty balanced class. IDK the AOE mez is both good and bad. You know how often you pop that thing and some noob starts AOE'ing them right after, it's pretty annoying. As far as the hard stun thing, it'd make a marauder actually overpowered to be able to put out that much damage while anyone stands there and does nothing. For the team synergy thing i was meaning we don't have as much as other classes at all and that other classes bring us up a lot more then we help to bring the rest of the team up Too many people don't understand that we don't always have cloak of pain to use which is our most important CD. Pretty much cop should always be up and if not it should be on CD because it's what keeps us running really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveRun Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 IDK the AOE mez is both good and bad. You know how often you pop that thing and some noob starts AOE'ing them right after, it's pretty annoying. As far as the hard stun thing, it'd make a marauder actually overpowered to be able to put out that much damage while anyone stands there and does nothing. For the team synergy thing i was meaning we don't have as much as other classes at all and that other classes bring us up a lot more then we help to bring the rest of the team up Too many people don't understand that we don't always have cloak of pain to use which is our most important CD. Pretty much cop should always be up and if not it should be on CD because it's what keeps us running really. EXACTLY! This is why sorcs/cons need to be nerfed and not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 No, it's not like that AT ALL. It would be like that if mages could run around in the Ice Block, doing full damage to anyone in their vicinity for the next 5 seconds while knowing the whole time that after UR wears off, they can just pop a medpac and have more health than they had before they used UR. Also, Ice Block was on a 5 minute CD, not 90 seconds. It would be like a Pally bubble, before it got nerfed to only be able to do half damage while being completely immune. Hmm, I wonder why that change was made..... didn't mages have a CD that reset the cooldowns of all their cds on a very short timer? So they could pop it more then once every 5 minutes if need be. Also UD is more like a cheat death that doesn't auto activate... actually have to watch my stuff to use it instead of oh hey i'm stunned and dead oh nope cheat death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 EXACTLY! This is why sorcs/cons need to be nerfed and not us. Um no... they don't need nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Then there will be a problem with pve and them being a waste of skills there. Bosses and mobs will do a ton of damage to a marauder before they can get camo off so them being healed in stealth makes it so they don't have to stay out of the fight for 4 seconds and with UD popped a healer won't be wasting precious resources on the mara because they see him low. Losing a person in pve is never a good thing no matter the role. Other melee classes do just fine without cloak or UR in PVE. The DPS difference already takes this into consideration and the defensive CD's allowing for healing is just double dipping. By your logic infiltration shadows, vigi guardians, scrapper scoundrels all need these CD's. These CD's are meant to deal with focus fire in PVP, they are not necessary for PVE. Edited June 11, 2012 by dcgregorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) For the team synergy thing i was meaning we don't have as much as other classes at all and that other classes bring us up a lot more then we help to bring the rest of the team up I'll agree that Annihilation / Watchmen is a very selfish spec, in that it brings VERY little actual group utility to the table. 2 interrupts, and an extremely weak group heal. That's about it. All Maras bring Bloodthirst, so I didn't count that. It is, however, the top 1v1 spec in the game, since all of its real strengths focus on keeping itself alive and doing insane sustained DPS. So basically outlast and "whittle down", but Annihilates hit hard enough on top of bleeds to be considered "chopping", not "whittling" lol. For utility though, Carnage exists, and is probably one of the top classes in the game when it comes to group viability. Transcendence alone can win you games, and having 2 extra roots and ON-DEMAND burst is extremely helpful in a lot of situations. Edited June 11, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovan_Oh-One Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Xinika, I thought you were above this sort of crap? :l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) didn't mages have a CD that reset the cooldowns of all their cds on a very short timer? So they could pop it more then once every 5 minutes if need be. Also UD is more like a cheat death that doesn't auto activate... actually have to watch my stuff to use it instead of oh hey i'm stunned and dead oh nope cheat death! Well, what it really was at first was (I stopped playing before Cata, so no idea how it functions now): Ice Block = 5 min cd. Cold Snap = 10 min cd. So you could Ice Block > Cold Snap > wait out 30 second debuff (they did this so you couldn't use it back-to-back) > Ice Block. And even if you did do this, you could not actually attack anything or help anyone. UR does NOT take you out of the game entirely like an Ice Block, lol. But the cd was not short at all, and if he did this, he was not going to be doing it again for another five minutes. I agree Cheat Death is the best analogy for it. : ) Edit: Had cd timers backwards, fixed now. Edited June 11, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Other melee classes do just fine without cloak or UR in PVE. The DPS difference already takes this into consideration and the defensive CD's allowing for healing is just double dipping. Do other melee classes in pve do as much dps as a marauder? No. Do other melee classes in pve have ways of keeping themselves alive also? Yes. 2/3 of the other melee classes also get the option to stance dance for more armor. 2/3 of the other melee classes can vanish IF they pulled aggro and their heal debuffs can be talented off. (I don't agree that they should be there). Don't want to hear you say anything about the heal debuff talent either because it's a good filler talent. So yeah other classes have their ways of dealing with aggro. A sent mara has theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'll agree that Annihilation / Watchmen is a very selfish spec, in that it brings VERY little actual group utility to the table. 2 interrupts, and an extremely weak group heal. That's about it. All Maras bring Bloodthirst, so I didn't count that. It is, however, the top 1v1 spec in the game, since all of its real strengths focus on keeping itself alive and doing insane sustained DPS. So basically outlast and "whittle down", but Annihilates hit hard enough on top of bleeds to be considered "chopping", not "whittling" lol. For utility though, Carnage exists, and is probably one of the top classes in the game when it comes to group viability. Transcendence alone can win you games, and having 2 extra roots and ON-DEMAND burst is extremely helpful in a lot of situations. Marauder is all around kind of a me class but carnage does help improve on it some. And yeaht he on-demand burst of carnage is nice but the whole spec just doesn't feel like it excels as well as annihilation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Do other melee classes in pve do as much dps as a marauder? No. Do other melee classes in pve have ways of keeping themselves alive also? Yes. 2/3 of the other melee classes also get the option to stance dance for more armor. 2/3 of the other melee classes can vanish IF they pulled aggro and their heal debuffs can be talented off. (I don't agree that they should be there). Don't want to hear you say anything about the heal debuff talent either because it's a good filler talent. So yeah other classes have their ways of dealing with aggro. A sent mara has theirs. The issue is that a Sent / Mara has 5 defensive cooldowns, whereas every other DPS class only has 2-3. The Sent / Mara also has the highest DPS of all the classes, so having more defenses than all of the other classes seems pretty unwarranted. They are not lacking in any department, save that they need to be within 4m of their opponent. They are NOT the only class that has this restriction, obviously, but have almost TWICE the methods to deal w/ people in their face as almost every other DPS. How do you defend that fact? Marauder is all around kind of a me class but carnage does help improve on it some. And yeaht he on-demand burst of carnage is nice but the whole spec just doesn't feel like it excels as well as annihilation It doesn't. Not without a really good group backing you. I have one of those. : ) Edited June 11, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) The issue is that a Sent / Mara has 5 defensive cooldowns, whereas every other DPS class only has 2-3. The Sent / Mara also has the highest DPS of all the classes, so having more defenses than all of the other classes seems pretty unwarranted. They are not lacking in any department, save that they need to be within 4m of their opponent. They are NOT the only class that has this restriction, obviously, but have almost TWICE the methods to deal w/ people in their face as almost every other DPS. How do you defend that fact? Because what you're saying is not a fact. I can name at least 2 classes that DPS/burst better than Mara/Sent. Edited June 11, 2012 by Sevvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The issue is that a Sent / Mara has 5 defensive cooldowns, whereas every other DPS class only has 2-3. The Sent / Mara also has the highest DPS of all the classes, so having more defenses than all of the other classes seems pretty unwarranted. They are not lacking in any department, save that they need to be within 4m of their opponent. They are NOT the only class that has this restriction, obviously, but have almost TWICE the methods to deal w/ people in their face as almost every other DPS. How do you defend that fact? It doesn't. Not without a really good group backing you. I have one of those. : ) Saying obfuscate counts is like telling a tank to wear tanking gear in pvp. It works against so little it's not really that big an option. I think ops are the only ones that get shafted on it... Oh wait... Shield probe too. So each other melee class gets 3 on top of the other things i said with either heavy armor or stealth. IDK about carnage, I feel the group healer could be spending it's time on the other two more then you with annihilation and not have to worry as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Because what you're saying is not a fact. I can name at least 2 classes that DPS/burst better than Mara/Sent. Deception sins, concealment ops, and pyro pt's? <they all burst better then a carnage marauder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Because what you're saying is not a fact. I can name at least 2 classes that DPS/burst better than Mara/Sent. I didn't even use the word "burst" anywhere in my post. Why are you? I said they have the highest DPS in the game. So yes, what I'm saying IS a fact according to the majority of the parses floating around atm. Do you know the difference between DPS, Burst, and Total Damage Done? <.< Also, Obfuscate is an incredibly awesome ability, so of course I'm going to count it. I don't care that it doesn't work on everything under the sun, because the classes that it DOES work on it completely shuts down for the duration. Edited June 11, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) I didn't even use the word "burst" anywhere in my post. Why are you? I said they have the highest DPS in the game. So yes, what I'm saying IS a fact according to the majority of the parses floating around atm. Also, Obfuscate is an incredibly awesome ability, so of course I'm going to count it. I don't care that it doesn't work on everything under the sun, because the classes that it DOES work on it completely shuts down for the duration. Because burst is what matters in PvP. DPS is super cool in parses of people that got wrecked and on the scoreboard at the end of a match. But burst damage is what's really going to kill good players. So then, I ask you, do you know what matters in PvP? Hint: It's not DPS. Edited June 11, 2012 by Sevvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Ask any healer that has ever played with a good combat/carnage player. They love us and will be more than happy to heal us because no one in this game peels like we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I didn't even use the word "burst" anywhere in my post. Why are you? I said they have the highest DPS in the game. So yes, what I'm saying IS a fact according to the majority of the parses floating around atm. Do you know the difference between DPS, Burst, and Total Damage Done? <.< Also, Obfuscate is an incredibly awesome ability, so of course I'm going to count it. I don't care that it doesn't work on everything under the sun, because the classes that it DOES work on it completely shuts down for the duration. Who does it completely shut down for the duration? Other annihilation marauders and snipers? It blocks PT's big hit which is nice and it will slow them down and it's really only good against that for them. Everyone else it's pretty meh to use against and only saves from their soft hits and their big ones are still going to own you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'm on my 6th level 50 and the only world I really don't like is Corellia (takes way long to load). The problem is PvP provides you with just exactly not enough XP to skip a world completely. If there was a way to skip a world it wouldn't be as bad. neglecting the fact that you CANT skip any worlds because the story wont LET you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 neglecting the fact that you CANT skip any worlds because the story wont LET you... You don't need the story to reach level 50. You do need the story to acquire companions and (surprise!) complete the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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