1.3 Maras/Sents no nerfs?

[LiveandDieinLA]

And that list of survival tools is absurdly strong and needs to be nerfed. There is no reason to have that many defensive cool downs on top of good utility on top of great damage. The only thing a marauder is missing is a taunt.

 

Of course there is a reason. Marauders and Juggs are the only true (non stealth) melee dps classes in the game. Juggs have a push, taunts, heavy armor, soresu form. Maras have force camo, and UR.

[Xerain]

Not always true. Many times a class is at such a disadvantage vs another class that the better player loses. So.. wrong.

 

I guess 1v1's matter in this team game huh?

 

Quality pvp'ers are the best source of information when it comes to balancing, hands down. The problem is, any time anyone open their mouth about it, regardless of how they say it, they are considered to be "qq'ing" instead of just simply sharing their knowledge and experience.

 

So you are wrong again.

 

Yeah well all the classes in this game are good in pvp except DPS mercs.

 

 

 

I can't speak for the OP of this thread and neither can you, but I have seen amazing players get trolled up and down the forums for class balance issues that they brought up. Sometimes QQ is legitmate btw.

 

So you are wrong again.

 

 

No QQ is just that QQ... "I got beat up so nerf them!"

 

 

 

Same goes for all other classes, yet other classes aren't dominating like maras and sents. Congrats on owning a really bad player with the same class they play. The issues arise when you take the top players of each class and put them against each other; not when you take a great player with a weak class and play them against a bunch of horrible players playing the FOTM.

 

Shall I tell you about assassin, powertechs, madness sorcs, stabby ops, the one stabby assassin that i know of does really well and dominates with it and puts up mad numbers so i can't say that spec overall but the one i do see does extremely well, or sniper?

 

Right or wrong, who cares. Don't even know why you listed this as a fact in the first place.

 

 

 

Spoken like a true fan boy, ignorant of class balance and pvp mechanics. Why don't we give Snipers a 0.1 second cast time shot that does 30k damage on heavy armor? According to you its fair, and balanced and people will just need to L2P in order to win, and shouldn't QQ.

 

If anything needs fixed it's merc DPS and that's it.

 

There is such a thing as class imbalance, and its very prevalent in this game.

 

No it's not. All three healer types are are pretty close to equal when it comes to healing, tanks are retarded in general and guard+taunt combo is so stupid oped most of you don't realize it because you don't know how to guard switch and use your taunts, and all the dps have their ups and downs some can even help heal here or there or throw out taunts.

 

Doubt this. If you were actually were so good, you could actually dig deep and notice class imbalances that actually exist in this game. Or do you think you really beat that Merc Dps on your Sent because of skill alone? Thought so.

 

Class balance is pretty good int his game... you just can't be blind about it and learn to pvp.

[Smuglebunny]

Why cant it be negated? Cant dots be cleansed and players be stunned?

 

Mara jumps me, I hit cover and knockback, I do tons of damage, the root ends and he comes at me again, cant leap cuz im in cover, dirty kick, more damage done, drop incendiary grenade on myself(sab spec), mara pops coodowns, I flash bang to stun and waste it, continue to do damage, mara dies. I live. Then another player kills me lol.

 

Thats how most of my encounters with maras goes down. Not always but most of the time.

 

And thats getting jumped, from range they have no chance cuz they cant even jump to you.

 

How can this be OP? I find it underpowered from a gap closing standpoint and the fact that you can just stun them out of their best cooldown AND they have to be close up.

 

They arent even a credible threat to my GS.

 

Anyway who cares I dont even play my sent anymore, but If they get nerfed no one will play them due to how easy it already is to counter them.

 

I have a toon of each class spread on multiple servers, I dont really care if they get nerfed I just dont think they need it or will get it.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Smuglebunny

[Superawesomerman]

I agree with xerain ... In general. his arguments need work.

 

But yeah, buff mercs, tweak here and there, good semblance of balance for rated. After a few weeks of rated, retune.

[Xienive]

I agree with xerain ... In general. his arguments need work.

 

But yeah, buff mercs, tweak here and there, good semblance of balance for rated. After a few weeks of rated, retune.

 

I agree with him too, but the reasons he is giving for his points are silly and don't make sense lol.

[Xerain]

And that list of survival tools is absurdly strong and needs to be nerfed. There is no reason to have that many defensive cool downs on top of good utility on top of great damage. The only thing a marauder is missing is a taunt.

 

 

Predation and deadly throw? Tons of utility there.

 

Jugg has guard, single target taunt, aoe taunt, intercede, armor debuff for the group, AOE snare. PT has just as many, assassin has just as many.

 

You know how often i wish i could burst out damage like a powertech or op. I wish i could heal as well as a sorc or op and hit other people with those heals too, and guard, and taunt... Being able to do something besides a run speed buff and bust out damage would be great.

 

 

 

I want you all to roll snipers or gunslingers. And then tell me if you think sents/maras are OP.

 

Did you all know that the Gunslinger has a 3 sec 100% immunity to range and melee attacks, and a type of "bubble" and they do almost as much damage as mara/sents and from range.

 

I play a Gunslinger and I find marauders to be weak easy kills unless I get jumped. Sometimes I win even after being jumped. Im a nub this is my first mmo and Im a keyboard turning clicker.

 

1 v 1 I cant seem to lose to them.

 

This is my basis for saying they are not OP.

 

1. I have a lvl 50 mirilian sentinel.

2. I have a lvl 41 gunslinger

3. Bioware ignored all the calls for nerfs

4. Im not all that good at pvp based on the youtube vids Ive seen and I still beat maras all the time.

Crappy new player beats maras all the time = not OP.

 

I have one and the amount of tools a sniper has to keep a melee off them is amazing. I was seriously stunned when looking through talents and attacks and everything while playing my sniper, it's just stupid.

 

1. Oh ok, I didn't know after breaking from stealth shadows and scoundrels didn't have to sit in the middle and take damage.

 

You break from stealth at an opportune time and no ones going to stop what they're doing to target you because they're all busy trying to kill someone else first, more important targets

 

2. Stealth and attack, if you can't pick a target in 15 seconds well...I can't help you.

 

LOL cause it's all stealth and attack?!?!?! No, stealth adds an extremely powerful strategic advantage over everyone out of stealth. Please learn to play a stealth class with some brains

 

3. LOL you're only going to look more stupid if you even try to compare your DPS to an op or assassins. Neither of them have notable burst that just can't be negated. Even more so now with the upcoming changes.

 

Yeah i guess to be able to pop out of nowhere as an operative and drop someone to around 50% HP before they can react because of a knock down and stun isn't stupid at all huh? That's with trinketing the stun once your'e full resolve too. Stealth Assassin can do the samething so tyvm.

[Superawesomerman]

I agree with him too, but the reasons he is giving for his points are silly and don't make sense lol.

 

Lol, well... We cant always choose our allies, can we.

 

Probably cause ALL THE *********** SERVERS ARE DEAD.

[Superawesomerman]

If the gunslinger get leaped, it is very feasible for him to lose. just pacify the ambush and camo the aoe kbroot.

 

The problem is when you cant get the leap opener and the sniper opens up with root. Then you have to run.

 

er, unless they knock you off a ledge or something.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Superawesomerman

[Xienive]

 

Predation and deadly throw? Tons of utility there.

 

Jugg has guard, single target taunt, aoe taunt, intercede, armor debuff for the group, AOE snare. PT has just as many, assassin has just as many.

 

You know how often i wish i could burst out damage like a powertech or op. I wish i could heal as well as a sorc or op and hit other people with those heals too, and guard, and taunt... Being able to do something besides a run speed buff and bust out damage would be great.

 

 

 

 

 

I have one and the amount of tools a sniper has to keep a melee off them is amazing. I was seriously stunned when looking through talents and attacks and everything while playing my sniper, it's just stupid.

 

 

 

Yeah i guess to be able to pop out of nowhere as an operative and drop someone to around 50% HP before they can react because of a knock down and stun isn't stupid at all huh? That's with trinketing the stun once your'e full resolve too. Stealth Assassin can do the samething so tyvm.

 

Exactly what I am saying...stealth...wait...and pop. At that point, nobody is going to stop what they are doing to kill you....

 

I play stealth classes quite well, and yeah you pretty much stealth...attack your target on the sidelines and move on to the next one. It isn't hard or complicated or an art. It's pretty straightforward and simple.

 

So...50% health is down...now what? Heal, and destroy that op who has nothing left to throw at you. And no an Assassin cannot pop from stealth and burst you down to 50% health, you have to build procs in the burst build.

 

I don't really feel like arguing about it any more tho, im gona log in and pvp instead. Have fun arguing with other peoplz

Edited June 8, 2012 by Xienive

[Achyllis]

So, remove the stealth, leaving 4/6 seconds of 50% dmg and 30% movement on a 45 second cooldown.

 

Deal! /handshake

 

Hmm. That doesn't sound very agro dumpish now does it? That comes from skill tree points?

 

At least it does make sense with a dps spec.

 

Really what was BW thinking giving Mara/Sent a stealth every 45 seconds in PvP?

[Xerain]

Exactly what I am saying...stealth...wait...and pop. At that point, nobody is going to stop what they are doing to kill you....

 

I play stealth classes quite well, and yeah you pretty much stealth...attack your target on the sidelines and move on to the next one. It isn't hard or complicated or an art. It's pretty straightforward and simple.

 

So...50% health is down...now what? Heal, and destroy that op who has nothing left to throw at you. And no an Assassin cannot pop from stealth and burst you down to 50% health, you have to build procs in the burst build.

 

Try to kill the op and hope you can pull it off because you just started attacking at 50% health. It's not a fun situation to be put in.

 

And those procs aren't hard to build at all and devastate better then an op.

[Humankeg]

I want you all to roll snipers or gunslingers. And then tell me if you think sents/maras are OP.

 

Did you all know that the Gunslinger has a 3 sec 100% immunity to range and melee attacks, and a type of "bubble" and they do almost as much damage as mara/sents and from range.

 

I play a Gunslinger and I find marauders to be weak easy kills unless I get jumped. Sometimes I win even after being jumped. Im a nub this is my first mmo and Im a keyboard turning clicker.

 

1 v 1 I cant seem to lose to them.

 

This is my basis for saying they are not OP.

 

1. I have a lvl 50 mirilian sentinel.

2. I have a lvl 41 gunslinger

3. Bioware ignored all the calls for nerfs

4. Im not all that good at pvp based on the youtube vids Ive seen and I still beat maras all the time.

Crappy new player beats maras all the time = not OP.

 

Congrats on being ignorant to pvp in a game and offering a completely unvalidated opinion because of it. You play the sole counter to a certain class; you play against horrible players; you aren't at max level on said character; you think that because of this experience you are qualified to actually type out an opinion on what class balance is. No. Please play for a much longer time, become more experienced, and get become a better player than the horrible noob you stated you were.

[Xienive]

Try to kill the op and hope you can pull it off because you just started attacking at 50% health. It's not a fun situation to be put in.

 

And those procs aren't hard to build at all and devastate better then an op.

 

Try to pull it off? Is it really that hard for you to come back and win after they have no more burst or anything to throw back at you?

 

I didn't say they were hard to build, but you can't immediately do it from stealth as you claimed.

[Superawesomerman]

Hmm. That doesn't sound very agro dumpish now does it? That comes from skill tree points?

 

At least it does make sense with a dps spec.

 

Really what was BW thinking giving Mara/Sent a stealth every 45 seconds in PvP?

 

No, thats baseline. Some specs can make it break root or last longer and move faster. The stealth component limits its use offensively though, is the point: we do anything, it breaks early and we lose all the bonuses.

 

Which is why removing the stealth is unfeasable: you'd just give us another flat damage reduction (our fourth) on a short cooldown. You might argue that stealth is 100% reduction of a sort, which is true, but its also 100% reduction for you by the same measure. the best way to fix it is make the cooldown dramatically longer, or remove the sprint / dmg portion, or some combination.

[Jarfunkz]

While I do not agree that Sent/Mara need a nerf to DPS. I was expecting an entire revamp of the cooldown structure of the class. They definitely needed to increase the cooldown of Force Camo. It's entirely too good. Instead, they gave even more PVP versatility to my particular spec (Combat) by removing the GCD from Precision Slash. I just don't understand this.

 

I have never called for a DPS nerf on Sents or Marauders (Of course I'm combat specced, but generally I do better than any other Watchmen on my server, not to toot my own horn or anything), but have been an advocate to buffing other classes to bring them closer to balance with Sents/Mara's. Not to the point that any class should be face-tanking their DPS, but something should have been done for other classes to have balance "surviveability" of what we have. Either through a buff to other classes, or an overall Cooldown change for Force Camo (which is by far the best ability in the game on a 45 second cooldown)

 

No, annihilation and watchman dps does need to be nerf. Those dots are way too potent.

[Superawesomerman]

No, thats baseline. Some specs can make it break root or last longer and move faster. The stealth component limits its use offensively though, is the point: we do anything, it breaks early and we lose all the bonuses.

 

Which is why removing the stealth is unfeasable: you'd just give us another flat damage reduction (our fourth) on a short cooldown. You might argue that stealth is 100% reduction of a sort, which is true, but its also 100% reduction for you by the same measure. the best way to fix it is make the cooldown dramatically longer, or remove the sprint / dmg portion, or some combination.

 

someone hacked my account and posted this, it sounds too reasonable.

 

AHMG FORCE CAMO SUCKS,I,NEED FOR PVE DONT TOUCH BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS.

[Superawesomerman]

No, annihilation and watchman dps does need to be nerf. Those dots are way too potent.

 

Diiiiissssppppeeeelllllllllllllll

[Crawelc]

They broke adrenals and relics. The qq fountain is now dry.

/thread.

Stop LOOKING AT ME!

[Achyllis]

No, thats baseline. Some specs can make it break root or last longer and move faster. The stealth component limits its use offensively though, is the point: we do anything, it breaks early and we lose all the bonuses.

 

Which is why removing the stealth is unfeasable: you'd just give us another flat damage reduction (our fourth) on a short cooldown. You might argue that stealth is 100% reduction of a sort, which is true, but its also 100% reductionre for you by the same measure. the best way to fix it is make the cooldown dramatically longer, or remove the sprint / dmg portion, or some combination.

 

Thanks for the info. Based on that I would really like to see a dev explain WTH they were thinking with all that mixed into your agro dump? Were they just lazy?

 

Why not create a new, vanilla agro dump for PvE, remove the stealth component and extend the CD on Force xxxx(insert new name here) to 180 seconds?

Edited June 8, 2012 by Achyllis
Typo

[Xerain]

Try to pull it off? Is it really that hard for you to come back and win after they have no more burst or anything to throw back at you?

 

I didn't say they were hard to build, but you can't immediately do it from stealth as you claimed.

 

nothing to throw at you? You still have all your other attacks! it's not like you just burst out half someones health then do 0 damage after that.

 

Don't even act like maul can't do awesome damage and you can't spike-maul-thrash-thrash-shock and own someone.

[Xerain]

Thanks for the info. Based on that I would really like to see a dev explain WTH they were thinking with all that mixed into your agro dump? Were they just lazy?

 

Why not create a new, vanilla agro dump for PvE, remove the stealth component and extend the CD on Force xxxx(insert new name here) to 180 seconds?

 

Why is this OP healer complaining about mara/sents so much? You're currently the hardest healer to kill and you have enough self defense to keep a melee off of you can heal yourself up while throwing out hots on people.

[Superawesomerman]

Thanks for the info. Based on that I would really like to see a dev explain WTH they were thinking with all that mixed into your agro dump? Were they just lazy?

 

Why not create a new, vanilla agro dump for PvE, remove the stealth component and extend the CD on Force xxxx(insert new name here) to 180 seconds?

 

Really, we dont need more buttons. We also dont need more reduction cooldowns.. It sounds like your beef with force fade is more thematic than anything in particular.

 

likely, in alpha somewhere, sentinels were easy meat for ranged classes, and they decided to improve what was once a pure pve talent to give sentinels a way to survive and reclose. Remember, early game, the balance of power heavily favored ranged (well, and shankers).

 

bioware is unlikely to add new animations (engine sucks) so this was probably a good idea at the time.

[Achyllis]

Why is this OP healer complaining about mara/sents so much? You're currently the hardest healer to kill and you have enough self defense to keep a melee off of you can heal yourself up while throwing out hots on people.

 

Spin the subject and change to attack mode eh? One more time then.

 

I simply pointed out that F Camo, particularly the stealth component, makes no sense and is vastly overpowered relative to the other dps agro dumps in the game.

 

The more I learn about the other perks it offers, the more certain I am that the assertion made above is correct.

[Humankeg]

Why is this OP healer complaining about mara/sents so much? You're currently the hardest healer to kill and you have enough self defense to keep a melee off of you can heal yourself up while throwing out hots on people.

 

Lol complaining about a healer while playing a marauder. Priceless.

[Achyllis]

Really, we dont need more buttons. We also dont need more reduction cooldowns.. It sounds like your beef with force fade is more thematic than anything in particular.

 

likely, in alpha somewhere, sentinels were easy meat for ranged classes, and they decided to improve what was once a pure pve talent to give sentinels a way to survive and reclose. Remember, early game, the balance of power heavily favored ranged (well, and shankers).

 

bioware is unlikely to add new animations (engine sucks) so this was probably a good idea at the time.

 

I agree more buttons sucks, but this new one would be PvE only. I don't need an agro dump on my hotbar as I don't PvE any more.

 

And you're spot on as to my argument. Sent/Mara is dps. Their job is to kill me. I get it.

 

But why a warrior class with stealth? Thanks for the rational exchange of ideas.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Achyllis