MAJOR changes to TTK - relics and WZ adrenals nerfed

[Boozed]

Personally I think anything that lowers TTK is good at this point, but what does the community think?

 

From the patch notes: PvP relics no longer have "on use" buffs, but provide passive buffs similar to te same stat they buffed previously, and WZ adrenals only provide damage reduction, NOT damage increases, on use.

 

Discuss!

[DarthNuke]

Personally I think anything that lowers TTK is good at this point, but what does the community think?

 

From the patch notes: PvP relics no longer have "on use" buffs, but provide passive buffs similar to te same stat they buffed previously, and WZ adrenals only provide damage reduction, NOT damage increases, on use.

 

Discuss!

 

Overall, it's a good thing, imo.

 

However, it completely neuters some specs like Infiltration Shadow. Hopefully BW address some of the gimpy (yet still playable, kinda) specs in 1.3 testing....instead of waiting til 1.4.

[yanksfan]

Overall, it's a good thing, imo.

 

However, it completely neuters some specs like Infiltration Shadow. Hopefully BW address some of the gimpy (yet still playable, kinda) specs in 1.3 testing....instead of waiting til 1.4.

 

Did they listen the last time with 1.2 ? They just killed whatever was left of concealment. I don't completely disagree with the changes, but they are disregarding two advanced classes in these changes.

[Kawiki]

It is a buff to any medium/light wearing armor class. They actually made Sent/Mara's stronger even though they nerfed their (all classes) burst a bit.

 

Honestly, I will be surprised if you don't see 4 Mara's per team now.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Kawiki

[Pekish]

as i said in the other post but perhaps is more intresting to make it general over here

 

you have to look it at the complexity of the change

 

they removed relic/adrenaline they removed the highest peak damage...

this give more time to the healer to heal

 

so looking at the change to tanksin without looking at the change in the way damage is applied is wrong

 

TTK was highly dependent from RELIC+ADRENALINE with relics lasting 20 seconds (not 3 or 5 second)

once you remove the capacity for the DPS class to make big number (and this nerf go to ALL dps class not only Operative but MARAUDER/SENTINEL and PYRO too) you cannot have a tanksin healing so damn much with so much armor

 

so the 2 are connceted i dont think the tanksin nerf is a tanksin nerf but a shift in DPS numbers of course the class untouched are the one Buffed get ready next round of whine will be about unkillable healer because with the DPS down (they did try to lower heal as well but i fear the heal was lowered less the then DPS) a team with 3/4 healer will be hard to touch

Edited June 6, 2012 by Pekish

[Xsorus]

It kind of reminds me of Mythic Nerfing Savages before TOA came out by reducing their Quad hit rate and increase Triple hits.

 

At the time a lot of savages were mad, and then TOA came out and our best weapon went from 4.0 to 4.4 Delay, That is a HUGE amount of burst damage in DAOC. If it had come out and we kept the Quad Rate we had, the damage would of just been silly.

 

This is just like that, They've reduced the active buffs because it allowed high burst, But more so probably because they're about to allow you to Augment basically every piece of your gear.

 

That would be a huge increase in damage for a whole lot of classes, it will probably push my Sniper to over 2000 Cunning to be flat out honest, which would be silly with Adrenals and Relics working how they did.

[Ahhmyface]

As stated in another thread, it is my opinion that healers are being restored to their former god status.

 

DPS classes already have to blow all their offensive cooldowns, including relic/adrenal to kill healers, even in 1.2. Now we're back to healer teams being unkillable. /sigh

Edited June 6, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Lansodw]

As stated in another thread, it is my opinion that healers are being restored to their former god status.

 

DPS classes already have to blow all their offensive cooldowns, including relic/adrenal to kill healers, even in 1.2. Now we're back to healer teams being unkillable. /sigh

 

I'm not so sure that will be the case. Right now a focus group of just two burst ACs can destroy anything without even having to worry about the healer. It requires no coordination or strategy.

 

With the toning down of burst it looks like it'll go back to having to at least put forth some effort into CCing the healer to pull off a fast kill. That's the way it should be. I don't believe healers will be nearly as strong as they originally were pre 1.2. Just more effective than they currently are.

[Pekish]

I fear that me too "healer god mod"... healer well played were hard to deal with but it was possible with a good team...

 

now i am not so sure anymore

Edited June 6, 2012 by Pekish

[WasabiJack]

As stated in another thread, it is my opinion that healers are being restored to their former god status.

 

DPS classes already have to blow all their offensive cooldowns, including relic/adrenal to kill healers, even in 1.2. Now we're back to healer teams being unkillable. /sigh

 

Not really, there was something about the pvp adrenal applying 20% healing debuff.

 

If this works as I am thinking, it should help with killing healers and also killing ball carriers that are being healed.

[Xsorus]

As stated in another thread, it is my opinion that healers are being restored to their former god status.

 

DPS classes already have to blow all their offensive cooldowns, including relic/adrenal to kill healers, even in 1.2. Now we're back to healer teams being unkillable. /sigh

 

you might have to blow your cooldowns, but I certainly do not.

 

By the way, Healer teams were never unkillable, only Bad DPS couldn't take on Healer teams.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Xsorus

[LeggoMyMuoio]

I might be kinda bad in this aspect, but I always seemed to forget to use my relics so this is something of a buff for me. I'd probably use adrenals more but I'm still in the process of buying gear so I've been saving my commendations.

[Ahhmyface]

you might have to blow your cooldowns, but I certainly do not.

 

By the way, Healer teams were never unkillable, only Bad DPS couldn't take on Healer teams.

 

Yes, well, deception isn't very good. Do you play a marauder or a pyro? Once you get nerfed you'll see what the rest of us have to deal with.

 

Healer teams will rule 1.3. Mark my words. The ranks will confirm.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Ahhmyface]

I'm not so sure that will be the case. Right now a focus group of just two burst ACs can destroy anything without even having to worry about the healer. It requires no coordination or strategy.

 

With the toning down of burst it looks like it'll go back to having to at least put forth some effort into CCing the healer to pull off a fast kill. That's the way it should be. I don't believe healers will be nearly as strong as they originally were pre 1.2. Just more effective than they currently are.

 

2 bursters can only take down a sage/sorc easily. Both the operative and the merc can handle 2 DPS AC for quite a while. Now they will be able to facetank and /rofl.

[Astarica]

WZ consumable nerf is good so that I don't have to keep on having feeder network to provide more even though I stockpiled 500 of those and haven't got a chance to use them yet (saving it for rated).

 

Not so sure about the relics, though I prefer passive effects over the burst type anyway. Relics work for heals too, so I dont' think it's strictly in favor of healers.

[Swidgin]

I agree with losing the self heals...IT'S a MUST

 

But how many times are they going to nerf burst classes?

 

Op/Scoundrel DEAD

 

Sin/Infil DEAD

 

What about the Rogues BW....THE ROGUES!

[Astarica]

2 bursters can only take down a sage/sorc easily. Both the operative and the merc can handle 2 DPS AC for quite a while. Now they will be able to facetank and /rofl.

 

You don't really burst a merc out of Energy Shield anyway, and without one it's trivial to get them low with effort. Merc healer pretty much involves two phases, you get them low enough to use Energy Shield and then the fight starts over.

 

Op healer I think they really do need to look at the 30% Surgical Probe spam. I can deal with it but it takes a very well coordinated team to pull it off. It's usually better to just DPS whoever he's trying to heal instead since at least that guy isn't going to be humping a pillar while receiving the same amount of heals.

[skotish]

As stated in another thread, it is my opinion that healers are being restored to their former god status.

 

DPS classes already have to blow all their offensive cooldowns, including relic/adrenal to kill healers, even in 1.2. Now we're back to healer teams being unkillable. /sigh

I am on the pts and dps guardians /jugs maras and sents still rule and hit very hard without their relic and adrenals

[looneybinjim]

As stated in another thread, it is my opinion that healers are being restored to their former god status.

 

DPS classes already have to blow all their offensive cooldowns, including relic/adrenal to kill healers, even in 1.2. Now we're back to healer teams being unkillable. /sigh

 

you do realise that the adrenals/relics you speak of are the same ones that healers use to increase thier healing power while being focus'ed right?

[Xerain]

Yes, well, deception isn't very good. Do you play a marauder or a pyro? Once you get nerfed you'll see what the rest of us have to deal with.

 

Healer teams will rule 1.3. Mark my words. The ranks will confirm.

 

Lol deception isn't good because you guys are far too squishy. The damage deception does is fine. Maul can still rock someone pretty hard and shock getting 30% more damage that makes chain shock scale with it can do mad damage, get out of here.

 

 

I don't need trinkets or adrenals to beat up a healer, it just makes the job easier.

[Pekish]

they hit less hard anyway

 

and for whoever think that removing dps adrenaline or healing adrenaline is the same has no clue

 

healer have to be faced in 2 or 3... so you are removing 3 DPS adrenaline and 1 healing adrenalin

 

so the 3 dps will do tree time less damage then the lost of heal... since healer can only cast 1 adrenaline

 

healer God mod is coming

 

this means only longer fight ergo an extra heal to cast because damage is always over time the shorter the better here lowering DPS will raise the TTK and healer will have MORE TIME to heal so 2 advantage more time and only lose 1 adrenaline vs 2/3 adrenaline of attackers

Edited June 6, 2012 by Pekish

[PloGreen]

Healer "god mode" has never existed in this game to begin with. If you had trouble killing healers its because your team should be using their cc properly, and interupts - its not rocket science.

 

1.3 is not even out yet and already this thread is full of bs hyperbole about god mode healers etc. Balance in this game right now is terrible, any changes to stop it becoming a dps slobbering contest is fine with me. PVP is not just about dps, its a team game that encourages strategy and teamwork - this involves cc and healing, and good timing and use of cc not just throwing it out willy nilly. Dps that dont play as a team, dont appreciate synergy or teamwork and complain about "unkillable" healers should not be pandered to under any circumstance in my opinion.

[Xsorus]

they hit less hard anyway

 

and for whoever think that removing dps adrenaline or healing adrenaline is the same has no clue

 

healer have to be faced in 2 or 3... so you are removing 3 DPS adrenaline and 1 healing adrenalin

 

so the 3 dps will do tree time less damage then the lost of heal... since healer can only cast 1 adrenaline

 

healer God mod is coming

 

this means only longer fight ergo an extra heal to cast because damage is always over time the shorter the better here lowering DPS will raise the TTK and healer will have MORE TIME to heal so 2 advantage more time and only lose 1 adrenaline vs 2/3 adrenaline of attackers

 

if it's taking 2 or 3 people to kill a single healer, then that's the fault of the 2 or 3 people. Esp 3, Which blows my mind...I mean If it's a Tank + Healer, it might slow me down a bit if it's just 1 of me, But if there is 2 other DPS with me, We'll explode that person even guarded and probably kill the tank at the same time.

 

I mean really, If you have 2 DPS in this game, there is really nothing that should be giving you trouble.

[Chloe]

As a healer, I don't like it. I use adrenals and relics all the time for burst healing. Having the relics "proc" instead of being triggered gives me less control over what I want to accomplish (alacrity, power)

 

I'll live, but be warned: I'm grumpy.

[Astarica]

Honestly I think pepole don't realize the time when that healer magically get half of his health back might be because he popped a relic/adrenal too. I can't say for sure this is what happened, but it'd be reasonable to assume if I can dramatically increase my DPS with relic/adrenal then the healer can do the same with heals too.

 

Yes you might have 2-3 DPS on a healer, but the healer can have a guard and the DPS might be taunted. While burst offense beats burst healing (if you die instantly it doesn't matter how much you can heal), it's not as one sided as people think.