MiaRB Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Pretty sure I'm gonna unsub over this, assuming it makes it off the PTS. Not really interested in PvP, and I have no idea why any group in their right mind would ever want a Shadow tank at this point. Additionally, I'm not really addicted enough to get another character geared at level 50. you are going to unsub because KC tanks are no longer a couple steps above other classes tanks? all the changes do is bring them inline with other class tanks performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 mmm again i can do with all the changges mai main concern is the armor reduction, is 2 low 125-130% can work better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Very good and balanced nerfs. No more Shadows defending effortlessly doors and turrets alone in PvP. You guys had it coming after months of abusing this class. I am very happy. You're funny. I can't wait for 1.3 to go live so I can see you back in the PvP forum crying about Shadows owning you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Pretty crappy multipronged nerfs. 2 hits at healing and a whopping 35% reduction in armour...for a tank that is ALREADY in light armour. I would say total crap, way overboard. Shadow tanks could put ok mid range damage, no where close to specc'd vanguards or even some guardian specs...and most of it aoe damage, not the kind of ability to burn down a single target. But anyway, this seems excessive and certainly removes my desire to play the game. Much like 1.2 did with my sage. If BW makes it where I keep shelving toons every patch, Im going to run out of things I want to play and then they will run out of my money...35% armour reduction??? REALLY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Pretty crappy multipronged nerfs. 2 hits at healing and a whopping 35% reduction in armour...for a tank that is ALREADY in light armour. I would say total crap, way overboard. Shadow tanks could put ok mid range damage, no where close to specc'd vanguards or even some guardian specs...and most of it aoe damage, not the kind of ability to burn down a single target. But anyway, this seems excessive and certainly removes my desire to play the game. Much like 1.2 did with my sage. If BW makes it where I keep shelving toons every patch, Im going to run out of things I want to play and then they will run out of my money...35% armour reduction??? REALLY? It's called a Sentinel. Play it. It's broken. It doesn't get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNuke Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Very good and balanced nerfs. No more Shadows defending effortlessly doors and turrets alone in PvP. You guys had it coming after months of abusing this class. I am very happy. Grats, your QQ worked. Are you gonna cry moar when you're eating 6K crits all day long now too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynt Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Good nerf, altho I would have thought them to go to the other way with it ... nerf the dps (remove damage increase on channel) and have kept the tankiness of the spec. Either way this was a good change as balance and deception truly are great specs just greatly under the shadow of the tank spec =) you want a troubled class? look at dps operatives ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Good nerf, altho I would have thought them to go to the other way with it ... nerf the dps (remove damage increase on channel) and have kept the tankiness of the spec. Either way this was a good change as balance and deception truly are great specs just greatly under the shadow of the tank spec =) you want a troubled class? look at dps operatives ... K, even after the nerfs, KC is still better than both those other 2 specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigUten Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Screw this guys. This is the time for us Shadows to prove our worth! We will show them how magnificent we are even with this big nerf! This will not stop us from being awesome. They may break us down, they may take everything. But in the end.. We will stand triumphant. In a blaze of glory! We will destroy everything in our path! Let's embrace this disaster and show them how good we are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xienive Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 K, even after the nerfs, KC is still better than both those other 2 specs. QFE /5char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Screw this guys. This is the time for us Shadows to prove our worth! We will show them how magnificent we are even with this big nerf! This will not stop us from being awesome. They may break us down, they may take everything. But in the end.. We will stand triumphant. In a blaze of glory! We will destroy everything in our path! Let's embrace this disaster and show them how good we are! Nerfs kill off rerollers, not good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zegota Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 you are going to unsub because KC tanks are no longer a couple steps above other classes tanks? all the changes do is bring them inline with other class tanks performance. Yup, totally in line! - Significantly lower armor than all other tanks - Significantly lower damage reduction than all other tanks - A healing ability that's now hilariously gimped, and which doesn't really matter anyway when a crit one/two shots you because you're essentially tanking as a Sage. And I'm not unsubbing because of a nerf. I'm unsubbing specifically because I'm not going to be able to find parties any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNuke Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Nerfs kill off rerollers, not good players. I'm with that. I always preferred the hybrid with FiB, but specifically ran 31 KC to get the Slow Time snare. I'll run with my preferred spec and still melt faces...so I don't care too much. I lothe PVE....so I don't care about that impact...but I don't like seeing the PVE'rs suffer cuz of PVP QQ. That's just weak, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OysterCatcherr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 K, even after the nerfs, KC is still better than both those other 2 specs. At doing what? Kinetic always did respectable damage, but not as much as a Balance/Infil could put up. And if you are wearing DPS gear, than damage is what its about no? 1v1? Well these changes could just about swing it in favour of balance/infil again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmnstoica Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 At doing what? Kinetic always did respectable damage, but not as much as a Balance/Infil could put up. And if you are wearing DPS gear, than damage is what its about no? 1v1? Well these changes could just about swing it in favour of balance/infil again. Even with the nerfs the survivability of Kinetic is still miles ahead of Infiltration/Balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OysterCatcherr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Even with the nerfs the survivability of Kinetic is still miles ahead of Infiltration/Balance. But that added survivability doesn't help them do as much damage as an Infil/Balance shadow. And damage - which if they are wearing DPS gear and not playing the tank role - is what it is about no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 1v1? Well these changes could just about swing it in favour of balance/infil again. Will need to get some playing time in to tell. KC definitely has a strong edge over Infil for 1v1. I can burst an equally geared KC down to about 30%, but then they pop resilience and do that harnessed TK Throw nonsense. With the armor nerf, maybe I'll be able to burst them to 10-15%, but I lose the adrenals and on-use buffs, so I'm thinking it'll be a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronepilot Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I really don't think what they did to combat technique was fair, or even tested properly, and thought out right. I play Infiltrator anyway, but I also feel the pain that our Shadow tanks and Tank sins are going through. I spoke to one, Tank Sin, who only has that as a level 50 with all his War Hero gear, and is talking of leaving when 1.3 hits us. 'Hit' is the right word, as its a kick in the teeth for people playing in our Kinetic tree. I read people talking about Mara's and sentinels, I did actually wonder the same thing actually, why they are 'not' being touched this time around. At the end of the day we won't know how bad it really is until 1.3 is here, and until then, anything we say is pure speculation I think. But with the so called tweaks other classes get, in 1.3 with me playing as Infiltration Shadow (yeah I know) but I like the spec ok ? I feel really put off from PVP at all now. Will need to get some playing time in to tell. KC definitely has a strong edge over Infil for 1v1. I can burst an equally geared KC down to about 30%, but then they pop resilience and do that harnessed TK Throw nonsense. With the armor nerf, maybe I'll be able to burst them to 10-15%, but I lose the adrenals and on-use buffs, so I'm thinking it'll be a wash. Not to nit pick at you, but your basing that on current game play right, ? play against a shadow tank 1v1 'AFTER' the 1.3 update, and come back and tell us how it was then Edited June 7, 2012 by dronepilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmnstoica Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) But that added survivability doesn't help them do as much damage as an Infil/Balance shadow. And damage - which if they are wearing DPS gear and not playing the tank role - is what it is about no? Playing the same people over and over you get to know their speccs in time. On my server, we tend to take out first the squishiest players first. The easiest to kill are usually: assassins/shadows (non kinetic)>sorcs> operatives > etc In any group play as balance you will only have time to place some dots and do 1 FIB before you are taken out or as infiltration you will maybe take out a person on the other team (unlikely though) before visiting the graveyard yourself. As kinetic, the reduced burst dmg will not prevent me from killing another DPS. However it will make it a LOT HARDER to nuke down a good healer. Healers are already very tough for us to kill. Atm we stand a chance against commando and sage healers but smugglers are already laughing at us. People will gravitate more towards hybrids speccs rather full kinetic, but kinetic will not go away. Edited June 7, 2012 by csmnstoica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Not to nit pick at you, but your basing that on current game play right, ? play against a shadow tank 1v1 'AFTER' the 1.3 update, and come back and tell us how it was then Yup, that's why I said I'll need to get some playing time in to tell the extent of the nerfs. Prefer empirical data over theorycrafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OysterCatcherr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 In any group play as balance you will only have time to place some dots and do 1 FIB before you are taken out or as infiltration you will maybe take out a person on the other team (unlikely though) before visiting the graveyard yourself. Only if you are a bad balance shadow. Yes you have to be a lot more intelligent with your positioning and movement during a fight, but by no means as a balance shadow am I instantly nuked down. Nor does a good balance shadow spread DoTs around randomly - but that is another point entirely. I think it is good that kinetics have been nerfed, because it means that maybe they will have to start thinking a bit more about how to play well, rather than relying so heavily on amazing survivability and solid, easy-to-lay-down damage numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverRose Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Only if you are a bad balance shadow. Yes you have to be a lot more intelligent with your positioning and movement during a fight, but by no means as a balance shadow am I instantly nuked down. Nor does a good balance shadow spread DoTs around randomly - but that is another point entirely. I think it is good that kinetics have been nerfed, because it means that maybe they will have to start thinking a bit more about how to play well, rather than relying so heavily on amazing survivability and solid, easy-to-lay-down damage numbers. Actually, nothing will really change with Kinetic playstyle, they didn't encourage diffrent rotations or anything. This is still going to be good, old kinetic, only worse. Imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverRose Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Nerfs kill off rerollers, not good players. Possibly one of the best posts on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnesium Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I agree that the "changes" will indeed make a lot of the FOTM players drop the class. One thing I don't get is how people complain about threat, I have NEVER had threat issues in PvE and I've tanked everything in the game, threat was NEVER an issue for me, threat in this game is so easy to maintain with the taunts pulling threat and also putting you top of the threat list everytime, it is so easy to maintain so they tried to make it look like a big upgrade to our class with the single and AOE taunt changes but honestly if anyone had any issues with that was just using a bad rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverRose Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I agree that the "changes" will indeed make a lot of the FOTM players drop the class. Yup, they'll go back to their powertechs and maras in no time ;o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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