An open letter to Bioware.

[Bloodstealer]

Or for that matter, their jobs. Like that matters to some random forum Joe who is reading this thread.

 

Seems to me you fit that random Joe profile quite well as you clearly do not understand what the OP is saying or who its directed at.... nice try at trolling the thread tho

 

OP nicely put out there, and offers some decent critque and points that BW should read and consider

[Goretzu]

I think you meant to say "bought" three cars.

 

If you've built three cars, yes, then you know how to build one.

 

You know how to build the ones you've built, it doesn't therefore follow you know how to build any car.

 

However experience would help, which is the point I was trying to make, if you've played a lot of MMORPGs you don't always know how to build a MMORPG, but you've likely got a good sense of what works and what doesn't work, sometime more so than the Devs.

 

After all car designers rarely test their cars, they have specific test drivers to do that and help with improvements and even design issues.

[alastairc]

here are some rebuttals:

 

1 & 2. Crafting skills of diffrent varietys are useful, the rest of your point seems to stem from some underlying sentiment that pvp recruit/BM gear is just as good as pve gear and you dont need or have a desire to go after the other stuff. These 2 opinions are incorrect. The content is fun and also repeatable.

 

3. There is nothing wrong with world pvp. Your issue is from being on an unpopulated server. Plenty of pvp goes down on fatman.

 

4. Legacy has some useful stuff for messing around on world bosses etc. Something someone who was looking for fun outside of raiding/pvp i figured would have found. Id also prefer bioware not spend money adding "fluff" content...i dont need stuff to fill up my bags/toolbars.

 

5. same issue as 3. please reffrence it.

 

6. there are currently vanity rewards for hardmode raids. also some vanity speeders. i appreciate Bioware keeping them semi rare. As a reward for dedicated players.

 

7. imo, instead of world events, id appreciate the population issues/lfg tool/ranked pvp were dealt with.

 

8. this is a quality of life issue, fairly well remedied by a guild website outside of game. you are spoiled by wow kind person.

 

9. The diffrent teirs seem to be tuned fine for my guilds progress and preformance level. I'm not sure what you are talking about. Seems to be the issue from 1 and 2 again....

 

10. 1.3 augment tables come out and you can wear whatever you want from the game. There are plenty of options and i think you would be in the minority saying that the armor doesnt look cool/appropriate.

 

Thanks for the comments, Spatology. I appreciate you have a different perspective to me; I’m happy to explain where I’m coming from so you can see where our opinions differ:

 

“1 & 2. Crafting skills of diffrent varietys are useful, the rest of your point seems to stem from some underlying sentiment that pvp recruit/BM gear is just as good as pve gear and you dont need or have a desire to go after the other stuff. These 2 opinions are incorrect. The content is fun and also repeatable.”

 

Whilst I agree that the Flashpoint/Mission content is fun, I don’t feel that the game incentivises repetition because the rewards are not worthwhile. What I mean by that is that the Flashpoint/Mission rewards are gear or gear tokens, but my own experience is that a full set of Recruit PvP gear for 200k credits is comparable in effectiveness PvE to Tionese gear; certainly good enough to allow access to storymode Operations and easy Columi gear.

 

“3. There is nothing wrong with world pvp. Your issue is from being on an unpopulated server. Plenty of pvp goes down on fatman.”

 

I’m glad that Fatman world PvP is thriving, but I don’t believe this is the case on many servers. I still believe that design change can make world PvP more appealing and accessible, allowing it to thrive elsewhere. Let’s all share in the fun!

 

“4. Legacy has some useful stuff for messing around on world bosses etc. Something someone who was looking for fun outside of raiding/pvp i figured would have found. Id also prefer bioware not spend money adding "fluff" content...i dont need stuff to fill up my bags/toolbars.”

 

I appreciate that vanity content doesn’t change gameplay, and I understand your priorities. Personally, I enjoy vanity content, but let’s assume most players are in a more middle ground between our two perspectives. The trouble with gear rewards is that once you have high itemisation in every slot, you’re done – further rewards offer you nothing. Vanity rewards are less restricted by the necessary game-balancing itemisation level caps, or by the number of gear slots on a character profile. Don’t get me wrong; there are other options – being able to buy PvP healing stims is a great idea in the current implementation for using up spare tokens, as they are disposable items. But whatever you add, we need more in terms of rewards than just a set of gear.

 

“5. same issue as 3. please reffrence it.”

 

Again, very happy for Bioware customers on Fatman, but there are other servers where this just isn’t the case.

 

“6. there are currently vanity rewards for hardmode raids. also some vanity speeders. i appreciate Bioware keeping them semi rare. As a reward for dedicated players.”

 

I’m not disparaging what’s there at present, but feel it’s a shame there aren’t more interesting items like these. Once you have the vanity speeder and the Hutt hat, what else is there? As a game offer, though, it just doesn’t make consistent sense as a business strategy. If the intention is to encourage people to play by grinding for rare vanity rewards in Operations, why restrict them to a weekly reset, when an experienced group could clear the whole of the current content in less than a day’s play?

 

“7. imo, instead of world events, id appreciate the population issues/lfg tool/ranked pvp were dealt with.”

 

Yes, I’d like to see all of the above.

 

“8. this is a quality of life issue, fairly well remedied by a guild website outside of game. you are spoiled by wow kind person.”

 

My point is that by encouraging people to use functionality outside the game, you make it easier for communities to migrate away. When your game is losing subscriptions, this seems like a strange area not to prioritise as a business. I’m also inferring that should the player population decrease, investment in the game will proportionally decrease as well, resulting in less development and less new content. For the investors and the player community, it’s a lose-lose scenario not to keep SWTOR players playing.

 

“9. The diffrent teirs seem to be tuned fine for my guilds progress and preformance level. I'm not sure what you are talking about. Seems to be the issue from 1 and 2 again....”

 

Again, I appreciate your experience differs from my own. My experience has been that the Recruit PvP gear bypasses Tionese gear, and therefore skips level 50 characters straight past the Flashpoint rewards and on to Operations. I’d add that this seems to be a recurring issue with the game, for example in terms of the standard Craftable Mods etc, which are completely superfluous on a similar basis. There doesn’t seem to be a coherent balancing of what’s made available that runs across the whole platform, to make sure all the routes to items and rewards are relevant and consistent.

 

“10. 1.3 augment tables come out and you can wear whatever you want from the game. There are plenty of options and i think you would be in the minority saying that the armor doesnt look cool/appropriate.”

 

Only if you pay to remove all the mods from your Rakata/Black Hole items and add to another set, and only if you discount the static pieces in which group all the Recruit PvP gear is included. I don’t disagree that more options are being added, and that’s great. I also understand that we all like different looks. I just think that when you’re driving a product proposition based on the Star Wars Intellectual Property, you should look to capitalise on the value of your USP, not resort to disparate styles that clash with the look and feel your customer base is (broadly) expecting.

 

Hope that helps you to see where I’m coming from, and that you can accept that where our views differ that more than one perspective is at play.

 

Alastair

[Shingara]

You know how to build the ones you've built, it doesn't therefore follow you know how to build any car.

 

However experience would help, which is the point I was trying to make, if you've played a lot of MMORPGs you don't always know how to build a MMORPG, but you've likely got a good sense of what works and what doesn't work, sometime more so than the Devs.

 

After all car designers rarely test their cars, they have specific test drivers to do that and help with improvements and even design issues.

 

Hate to point this out but nearly all and im betting bioware too have behind closed doors testers normaly slated as QA personel who have years of normally competitive gaming behind them who test stuff on the closed test servers and help refine content before it hits the pts for stress testing.

[Toweleeeie]

Great post OP.

 

Referring to #9

 

Even before recruit gear on my 1st 50 toon I skipped Tionese completely and got Columi. I was of course using the daily mods. I agree that Tionese is pointless but bc Columi is easier to get. Its a drop off the last boss of HM FPs and Tionese has 2 currency to collect to get it. Another issue is I was in full Columi before I had enough comms to buy 1 piece of Columi, which just seems very backwards.

[SuzyKing]

I disagree.

 

It's an MMO, these games cater for people who enjoy online public/social gaming but who are prepared to pay and contribute to see the game develop. I cannot think of one MMO that was 'finished' when it is was launched. I cannot think of a single MMO that after the 1st year looks like it did at launch.

 

You play to enjoy the game. You pay to see it developed. That's how it works, well for me in anycase.

 

When development goes in a direction I cannot abide or the game comes to the end of its natural life cycle, then I leave.

 

I didn't say "finished" I said "had the meat" meaning, had enough content/stuff from launch and then at regular patch updates, new "stuff". At the moment we've had 1.2 which basically seemed to add the stuff missing from the rushed launch (they did move their launch date forward after all) and 1.3 doesn't really seem that promising so far.

 

The updates are slow, the content is lacking, I don't expect "finished" I expect a game that is competative and has learned from other MMO's success and failures already so they don't need to reinvite the wheel by making the same mistakes over again.

[pbxsparx]

1. Endgame content fun is limited to Battleground PvP and Operations.

- Lots of endgame content is up.PvP Fps Ops Dailies

2. Scaling the PvP Gear has made PvE content redundant.

- Not Really

3. World PvP doesn't work at all

- Who cares!

4. The Legacy system fails to offer incentives to play, it's just a money sink

- Its just beginning lets wait!

5. Queue times for Battleground PvP content are artificially longer than necessary

- Not on my server - Tomb of freedon

7. The experiment with a world event in the Rakghoul Plague had no follow up

-Lets wait ?

 

This guy is funny =))

[Akabeth]

3. There is nothing wrong with world pvp. Your issue is from being on an unpopulated server. Plenty of pvp goes down on fatman.

 

But there's not much drawing folks together either. If population was the real issue with OWPvP, Ilum would've worked out alright until more OWPvP objectives are made available.

 

There are no consequences to controlling territory in this game (umm... not that there are segments of the pie to fight over to begin with) and for those willing to make the effort, they're dissuaded from wrestling over quasi territories. Republic and Imperial questing areas remains separated and instanced even in more encounter-friendly planets like Voss. Also, champion 'checkpoint' guards make it difficult for solo or unorganized players to hunt down targets -- it's tough to find them.

 

Every step of the way in this game, imo, reeks of hand holding. EAWare claim to target as wide audience as possible though that means there are those who shy away from PvP encounters all the way to individuals

at the other extreme. Your players at Fatman server are the sole factors for those OWPvP encounters. It's all so artificially constrained and this mentality manifests throughout SWTOR top-to-bottom -- from quest design standpoint (shot themselves in the toe here with voice-overs requirement) to overall combat freedom.

 

Again, there has been so many suggestions thrown around, players have pretty much illustrated and spelled out our interpretations of how Ilum and OWPvP can be made better (e.g. there was a huge thread on inter-planetary conquest some time ago). And what improvements have been made? Questing 'adjustments'. FFS EAWare you made it appear the whole IP is warlike during this time period.

 

Hate to point this out but nearly all and im betting bioware too have behind closed doors testers normaly slated as QA personel who have years of normally competitive gaming behind them who test stuff on the closed test servers and help refine content before it hits the pts for stress testing.

 

If this is true... I'd hate to see what that 'competition' plays up to. If they had any say there's no way in this planet a map like Huttball would've made it past beta or at least it won't be part of ranked warzones.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Akabeth

[Smuglebunny]

I just think its funny how intelligence is always met with the purest of ignorance immediately.

 

I mean, the game is going f2p 6 months after launch. Listen to this guy devs or everyone on this thread will be playing a different game real soon.

 

I really like playing but im getting lonely even on the 5th most populated and 3rd most populated servers.

[Holden_Dissent]

Although his intentions were good, the OP just troll baited all the doomsayer haters into another thread.

 

Also I think this technically belongs in the suggestion forums.

[Holden_Dissent]

I just think its funny how intelligence is always met with the purest of ignorance immediately.

 

I mean, the game is going f2p 6 months after launch. Listen to this guy devs or everyone on this thread will be playing a different game real soon.

 

I really like playing but im getting lonely even on the 5th most populated and 3rd most populated servers.

 

What's funny is that you are implying that you are not ignorant and then immediately follow that up with "the game is going f2p 6 months after launch".

[Jederix]

Wow. It didn't take the blinder-wearing fanboys very long to derail this thread, despite the OP being a very well-reasoned and constructive post. So I guess this is just proof that it doesn't matter if your content is constructive or mouth-foaming, the fanboys will shut you down.

 

How unfortunate.

 

OP, great post. Though you bring up a lot of what people have been saying before, I think the more people that say it, the less the developers can afford to ignore it. Thanks for your insights, OP.

 

It drew you in as well as several other well known "complainers" around here. But keep calling those who disagree with you "blind fanboys" because that makes everyone care what you have to say.

[Datku]

Why do people always feel it's necessary to list the games they played in the past as if that bestows some special sense of privilege or insight into MMOs?

 

An attempt to qualify their statements beyond the "Oh I played WoW and I am now a MMO expert crowd."

[Blackardin]

I didn't say "finished" I said "had the meat" meaning, had enough content/stuff from launch and then at regular patch updates, new "stuff". At the moment we've had 1.2 which basically seemed to add the stuff missing from the rushed launch (they did move their launch date forward after all) and 1.3 doesn't really seem that promising so far.

 

The updates are slow, the content is lacking, I don't expect "finished" I expect a game that is competative and has learned from other MMO's success and failures already so they don't need to reinvite the wheel by making the same mistakes over again.

 

You will never be satisfied with an MMORPG. This is how they work. Content takes time to develop. If they could pump it out any faster they would, but if they did, people would gobble it up like suckling puppies and still demand more anyway.

 

The key to enjoying these games is not and will never be content consumption, but social endeavor and content immersion. I've been playing since day one and I still have plenty to do. I would also suggest that many who are complaining about new content, including the OP, have skipped content, are not in max gear, have not completed all content up to and including nightmare mode. I'm sure there are some, but past experience has demonstrated that most who complain about content had not completed even a majority of it (Wow allowed us to check achievements).

[Blackardin]

I just think its funny how intelligence is always met with the purest of ignorance immediately.

 

I mean, the game is going f2p 6 months after launch. Listen to this guy devs or everyone on this thread will be playing a different game real soon.

 

I really like playing but im getting lonely even on the 5th most populated and 3rd most populated servers.

 

The game was suppose to die after the first month. Then it was going to be FTP after the first three months, then 6 months, now another six months....

 

Many of us are here attempting to reprove the river of hyperbole and conjecture that flows through this place like water.....and are called "fanbois" by those pumping the stuff out.

 

Ignorance is a tough nut to crack. ;p

[Blackardin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dezzi View Post

Wow. It didn't take the blinder-wearing fanboys very long to derail this thread, despite the OP being a very well-reasoned and constructive post. So I guess this is just proof that it doesn't matter if your content is constructive or mouth-foaming, the fanboys will shut you down.

 

How unfortunate.

 

OP, great post. Though you bring up a lot of what people have been saying before, I think the more people that say it, the less the developers can afford to ignore it. Thanks for your insights, OP.

 

The OP posted his thoughts on what he believes will save a game that he has no vested interest in, has not data to support. That makes it entirely opinion. I happen to disagree with much of what he is arguing, and seek a very different outcome then him.

 

If that gives you reason to insult me.....ok? ;p

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

Future content fails to excite me when we are still awaiting fundamental content: healthy server populations, World PvP content, and Rated WZs.

 

Moreover, I believe that the new content will be sold for $$. That's the industry model, and EA/BW have been following the MMO herd, not innovating. And I can't pay justify paying for new content when I've been waiting six months for basic content.

[DogMeat]

OP, thanks for the well thought out post.

It does cover a great many things I my self see as needed attention.

I will not re-sub do to these very things and hope in say 6 months things will be better.

I love this game and all it has to offer, but, with no end game and servers dead.

Why would I pay to play a MMO ALONE?

I sure hope the much need content is NOT sold as a add on, that will cause the death of the game.

This game as the guy above me states, need basic content before I pay for added stuff.

 

re-roll, we hear this all the time. NO it is not an option, it is an out for BW.

You spent time and effort on your toon just to get all you have thus far.

Why do I/you have to Start Over because of issue of dead servers, this is a BW issue not OURS !

 

 

I have seen this before and I am sure many of yo have seen this dead server issue in other games.

We all know how it will turn out.... not so good.

Then they will merge again and finally merge one last time and then you have what you have.

 

 

So, 6 months from now might be a good time frame, maybe not. We shall see.

Best of luck all and may the Force be with you!

 

Dog out .............

Edited June 6, 2012 by DogMeat

[Defdaddy]

Whats comical about that post is BW could do everything he wants done, and people (OP included) will complain about a whole new set of problems...

[SuzyKing]

Future content fails to excite me when we are still awaiting fundamental content: healthy server populations, World PvP content, and Rated WZs.

 

Moreover, I believe that the new content will be sold for $$. That's the industry model, and EA/BW have been following the MMO herd, not innovating. And I can't pay justify paying for new content when I've been waiting six months for basic content.

 

This ^^

[SuzyKing]

Whats comical about that post is BW could do everything he wants done, and people (OP included) will complain about a whole new set of problems...

 

What's comical about that post is that no matter what was posted people would write posts complaning about it, implying that Bioware/EA don't want player feedback (something they have expressly stated they DO).

[Dezzi]

The OP posted his thoughts on what he believes will save a game that he has no vested interest in, has not data to support. That makes it entirely opinion. I happen to disagree with much of what he is arguing, and seek a very different outcome then him.

 

If that gives you reason to insult me.....ok? ;p

 

Were you one of the people blasting him about this "credentials" and completely ignoring his points? If so, then yes.

[Dezzi]

It drew you in as well as several other well known "complainers" around here. But keep calling those who disagree with you "blind fanboys" because that makes everyone care what you have to say.

 

Except I wasn't lamenting that people had counter-points. I guess my English wasn't obvious enough. I very clearly took issue with people who ignored the constructive quality of the OP's post, and instead insisted on making his "credentials" the focus of the discussion.

 

If I'm a "complainer," what does that make you?

 

Here's a napkin... lil somethin' on your nose there...

[Dezzi]

You have to laugh at all the ad hominem attacks by the fanobi's instead of directing any responses to the actual topics and points expressed in his post.

 

Fanoboi automated responses usually resort to asking for constructive criticism and when there is constructive criticism they go on to personally attacking the op.

 

Bingo.

[Tsillah]

Why does that detract from his points if his points are valid? I simply don't understand. It's nothing but a concerted effort to derail the thread and silence yet another "dissenter."

 

He wasn't making an appeal to authority, he was simply explaining where his opinions come from.

 

The first part of your post is a fair question. I will answer that.

 

For me, and I realise this is personal, I have had the experience on forums that people use this sort of resumé to give more strength to their points and often exaggerate because 1) nobody can check it and 2) they think it gives strength to their arguments they feel is lacking. This is a bad habit because I think the points should speak for themselves. If the points are good, you do not need to explain how long you've been gaming, especially since anyone can say they have a lot of gaming experience and can simply lie. This is a forum after all, we can't check the truth about it. So to me it is better to avoid it.

 

As soon as I see one of these approaches therefore, I rarely read on because I feel the rest will likely be equally rubbish. In this case I did read on and as I mentioned in my post I do feel he has good points.

 

So there you have a bit more explanation about why I say that.

 

However, then you go on to state that I am purposefully derailing the thread to shut up a dissenter.

 

This is as uncalled for as it is unfounded. You purely base this on the premise that because you don't understand me, I therefore must be evil. This reasoning makes absolutely no sense and you know it. You assume a lot there and it's simply not true. Especially since I finished my post by saying that I felt the OP actually made good points.

 

Why he posted his resumé is also your interpretation. I am sure he can speak for himself. Your reason might be right but if you think you can read his mind over the internet, then I will choose to disbelieve you.

 

Let me tell you then where I stand. I agree with pretty much every point the OP makes AFTER his resumé. All in all not all points are so strong for me that it makes me quit, but there is one issue that needs to be addressed yesterday rather than tomorrow: server population. This is priority number one. It is killing this game. Transfers cannot come soon enough. I have posted about this in other threads and have said that I am disappointed that BW did not have a plan ready for falling population because I feel it's a given in MMOs that this will happen a few months after release.

 

So yes, I do like this game but I also agree there are problems and they do need fixing, but fix population first.