JeramieCrowe Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) As I said, instead of stretching this already exhausted theme they should be putting the efforts into more development by adding to what's already ingame and making it more complex and enjoyable, no where did I say that they've stopped all desire to improve it nor did I give any inkling that I felt that BW has indicated this,as I said, "more effort" giving the sole implication that there is already effort being put into it, but they could do more since they have time to create higher tiered content, why you never inferred this I shall never understand, but what I did hit on is that they are wasting resources on something that will see the game in the exact same tired position 6 months down the line but with lvl 55's. "Anything else I might complain about", I forever see you trolling through the forum trying to pick up on ambiguity and then criticizing based on misinterpreted inferences, stop it. I still failed to see where they said they are NOT adding more to what's currently here. BioWare is "non-zero-sum". Learn it, love it, live it. The bottom line is that a new level cap to go along with the new content is nothing but good news, and attempts to make it seem otherwise are futile. Edited June 5, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Unfortunately a level cap is needed... The biggest complaint that I've seen is nothing to do once you hit 50...If they just added some new content but didnt raise the level cap, then all those that blow through content will blow through it even quicker or will not do some content because they dont "need" to and we will be right back to "nothing" to do... If Bioware is smart, they will use this as a method to slow the game down a little and structure end-game operation tier gear/mods better...My only complaint with TOR personally is you level to quickly...They need to raise the XP needed to level up to slow the game down...If you do all quests on each planet then you get far above the suggested level for that planets quest...Im usually always 2 to 3 levels higher then what I should be and thats without doing FP's, Space Missions, and PvP until I hit cap I'm not a big fan of raising the level cap, but in this case I think its needed and if BW slows the game down so you dont out level stuff to quickly and what not, this will help get them back on track!!! EDIT: P.S: ADD SOME MORE MINI-GAMES BW!!! Give people more little things to do..Pazaak, Pod Racing, and etc etc Edited June 5, 2012 by fallenvirtues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casshern Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) i believe what they are trying to say is, will this new level cap make the current end game content useless, meaning with the new level there will only be the new raid worth doing thus decreasing the ammount of content at end game. *edit* oh add pvp swoop racing Edited June 5, 2012 by casshern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissakias Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 i find more lvls are too soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I still failed to see where they said they are NOT adding more to what's currently here. I too fail to see where they said this. Edited June 5, 2012 by DiabloDoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I too fail to see where they said this. The bottom line is the term "non-zero-sum". What that means is that even if they did not have future content teams working on this, they still wouldn't put any more devs on the current content team than they already have. They work largely independent of each other, as they are separate dev teams. So, asking BioWare not to work on future content and just work on current content will only result in no new content, and no difference whatsoever with the speed or quality of current content. Somehow, I doubt that's what you really want. Edited June 5, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The bottom line is the term "non-zero-sum". What that means is that even if they did not have future content teams working on this, they still wouldn't put any more devs on the current content team than they already have. They work largely independent of each other, as they are separate dev teams. So, asking BioWare not to work on future content and just work on current content will only result in no new content, and no difference whatsoever with the speed or quality of current content. Somehow, I doubt that's what you really want. So in essence they have a dev team specifically for lvl 55 whatever content that are incapable of working on lvl 50 content? Your whole post is based on your personal bewildered assumption, they have graphic designers coders and analysts that can work on any part of the game in their respective field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) So in essence they have a dev team specifically for lvl 55 whatever content that are incapable of working on lvl 50 content? Your whole post is based on your personal bewildered assumption, they have graphic designers coders and analysts that can work on any part of the game in their respective field. "Incapable"? Okay, at this point, I'm going to suggest you go look up what it means, since you think I'm making this up or something. BioWare, themselves, have stated they do not have a zero-sum dev department. If you're lacking in knowledge as to what that actually means, look it up. Edited June 5, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rymah Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 If you raise the level cap and release new endgame content, it makes all the other gear worthless...this is the argument that people keep going on about. It's also false, do you really think you can have a chance at consistently beating a new tier operation without having gear from previous tier content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 "Incapable"? Okay, at this point, I'm going to suggest you go look up what it means, since you think I'm making this up or something. BioWare, themselves, have stated they do not have a zero-sum dev department. If you're lacking in knowledge as to what that actually means, look it up. Its not like you don't have a search engine called google that does all the work for you. And they call this the Information Era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaddie Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 EVE has introduced new ships instead of raising the level cap. With the advent of Battlecruisers, Cruisers were no longer the mid-size uberness. Then came T3 Cruisers. Tengu, Loki, Proteus, and Legion. My Tengu can eat any T1 Battlecruiser for a light snack. Then they came out with T2 Battlecruisers, and even those were no match for a well fitted T3. A fleet of T3s can pwn just about any equal sized fleet of T1 BBs or even T2 BCs with good Logi support. Yup, but as you dont show it, Eve Online is way too complex to be compared to a simple theme park mmo. The stuff you acquire is forever with you. Your ship can be lost anyday. It was just an example to show that you can make a good game without that philosophy of raising level cap every year. DAOC is a better example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) If you raise the level cap and release new endgame content, it makes all the other gear worthless...this is the argument that people keep going on about. It's also false, do you really think you can have a chance at consistently beating a new tier operation without having gear from previous tier content? well lets look at this, the gear we have now for what in essense is the prime gear we are after is as such, looks - armour (rating) set bonus and stats broken down to mods. So really even if the gear itself get outgrown via the mods found within new drops doesnt automatically stop it being wanted. The armour set bonus can be transfered, the looks can be kept and the mods can be switched out for new mods. So what people are really going for in the prime is the mods and armour set bonus mods. we dont know if they are doing anything to allow us to upgrade stats on armour set bonus mods to keep set bonus active and increase the armour rating given from what is now lvl 50 armour so we will have to see if they do anything to allow us to modifiy the armour mod. Take wow for example, i worked my butt off for the wall shield from bt on my warrior, if it would have allowed me to keep the look and changed the stats within it, that shield would have still been releveant right upto now, which i think it might be again via transmog but do you see what i mean. Edited June 5, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipce Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I fail to see why increasing the level cap is auto synonymous with more content- why cant we just get more content without increasing the level cap? I've usually left games behind when this stuff happens, mostly because I have to start to grind gear again to even be able to explore new and old content on a harder difficulty than regular with my buddies.. oh man I want some horizontal leveling, building and developing the character- time to figure out if this game is anything else to me than Star Wars wich does not seem to be enough anymore. I'd say you can blast tiers, gearification and increased caps to pieces- a truly good and entertaining game dont need that. not at all- Han shot first because he could, not because of his gear. Edited June 5, 2012 by eclipce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rymah Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) well lets look at this, the gear we have now for what in essense is the prime gear we are after is as such, looks - armour (rating) set bonus and stats broken down to mods. So really even if the gear itself get outgrown via the mods found within new drops doesnt automatically stop it being wanted. The armour set bonus can be transfered, the looks can be kept and the mods can be switched out for new mods. So what people are really going for in the prime is the mods and armour set bonus mods. we dont know if they are doing anything to allow us to upgrade stats on armour set bonus mods to keep set bonus active and increase the armour rating given from what is now lvl 50 armour so we will have to see if they do anything to allow us to modifiy the armour mod. Take wow for example, i worked my butt off for the wall shield from bt on my warrior, if it would have allowed me to keep the look and changed the stats within it, that shield would have still been releveant right upto now, which i think it might be again via transmog but do you see what i mean. Since they made the changes to the armoring to carry the set bonus for the new gear, they've made it so you can upgrade the armoring and mods with the new gear set (campaign) and keep your set bonus intact since they use the same bonus template as the columi/rakata armor. Unless they change the set bonuses in the new tier of armor (which they haven't announced and probably won't until that update hits the PTS) you should be able to repeat the upgrade process with the new armoring/mods/enhancements and not lose anything other than the credits to transfer it over. (which is also going down) The armoring is what dictates the quality and item level in the armor so as long as they keep with the scale they have already established it will progressively get higher as you upgrade. So yes...you upgrade your armoring/mods from the new gear, and your stats will go up. Edited June 5, 2012 by rymah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) If they raise the level cap, on of two outcomes is likely. Either they are ditching the previous end-game content and starting all over (with 1 FP and 1 Op) or they will have to devote more development resources to re-tuning the current ones to present the intended challenge to the players. Another issue is gear balancing. Either they are invalidating the previous gains and presenting whole new sets to progress through or they will maintain the current sets. Either result is likely to alienate a segment of the players, so I just can't help but see this entire decision as lose-lose. Edited June 6, 2012 by Ellvaan Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 adding more levels, skills, items and content ect is a gamebreaker for you is it.............. ok then My same reaction to the OP's post..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Since they made the changes to the armoring to carry the set bonus for the new gear, they've made it so you can upgrade the armoring and mods with the new gear set (campaign) and keep your set bonus intact since they use the same bonus template as the columi/rakata armor. Unless they change the set bonuses in the new tier of armor (which they haven't announced and probably won't until that update hits the PTS) you should be able to repeat the upgrade process with the new armoring/mods/enhancements and not lose anything other than the credits to transfer it over. (which is also going down) The armoring is what dictates the quality and item level in the armor so as long as they keep with the scale they have already established it will progressively get higher as you upgrade. So yes...you upgrade your armoring/mods from the new gear, and your stats will go up. Thanks, been awol a bit due to hospital. On the basis we have covered though this allows for something we have mostly all wanted for years but unable to attian until recently, and that is diversity in looks not hindered to stat loss. When we get new levels and new content that means that new models will come down the pipe, the changes to social gear also leans towards this. You will be able to look how you like, take that look forward with you for armour and even weapons. The way heroic flashpoints work means that they never go out of date due to heroic version of them always being top level or that is the president set at this moment and in theory should always crank up to max lvl cap on heroic mode ( touch wood) and i would think should be done for heroic and nightmare versions of operations where those versions are actually retuned to the new level cap thus keeping that content relevant even if not tiered into the new content range of either expantion or range increased new operations content. So when it comes to gear the fact that new lvls get introduced and level cap raised the biggest vice wasnt that we had to get new gear again, it was that we were forced into clown gear, lost our set bonus we earned and litterally had to start from scratch again with no set bonus and stupid looking filler greens and blues WHICH doesnt apply here. Edited June 6, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Its not like you don't have a search engine called google that does all the work for you. And they call this the Information Era. Right?! Some people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) If they raise the level cap, on of two outcomes is likely. Either they are ditching the previous end-game content and starting all over (with 1 FP and 1 Op) or they will have to devote more development resources to re-tuning the current ones to present the intended challenge to the players. Another issue is gear balancing. Either they are invalidating the previous gains and presenting whole new sets to progress through or they will maintain the current sets. Either result is likely to alienate a segment of the players, so I just can't help but see this entire decision as lose-lose. How many MMOs raise level caps yearly? How many times has that broken previous encounters? NONE! You do them, still, as you pass that level. Why are people acting like this is a new thing? Edited June 6, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 SWG raised level, and took ages for it to be fixed.Over a year, maybe even twoEverything was crazy out of spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorotia Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Just another case of damned if you do damned if you don't! I've heard all the complaints... people complained in wow that they don't add enough, that it takes forever to get major patches, instances, and raids and what happens? People complain that things are going to fast. Things have to advance, what if gear didn't get better? They keep adding new operations but without progressing gear? You run a op till you beat it and bing bang boom your done. Change is needed, lets look at it this way If Luke in ROTJ was the same as Luke in ANH Vader would of crushed him, but Luke progressed...he learned new skills and got stronger. Things have to change! Or else your left with the same old and people will get bored and leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I want you all to know that I also play WoW, and I pointed them to this thread and we're all having Lulz about it. Easily one of the most ridiculous topic I have seen in a modern MMO forum. More content too quickly... lol... what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Yup, but as you dont show it, Eve Online is way too complex to be compared to a simple theme park mmo. The stuff you acquire is forever with you. Your ship can be lost anyday. It was just an example to show that you can make a good game without that philosophy of raising level cap every year. DAOC is a better example of that. I was trying to keep it in terms for the WoWers to understand. Personally, I have no problem with a level cap raise. It does make sense for the new combat abilities and story content. EVE IS way too complex for most of the WoW set to fathom. So I couldn't state that it was way too complex for them. But now we have, so.... Oh, and if you mine and manufacture your own mats to build your ships, and insure them, you really don't lose much isk if they get destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORG Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 No. Just more levels. Which is what I wrote. Please spare me the automated fanbot defense. I'm perfectly fine with more skills and items. Adding more levels though means everything you can do in the endgame now is essentialy a waste of time (as much as that can be said in a game anyway). The inner collector in me doesn't get hooked by the though of working hard to finish sets that I know will not be usable anymore within a short span of time. The new stuff might be absolutely awesome but it does kill my motviation to play in the endgame right now. And I think that will be true for a lot of raiders. This won't help with the already low activity at all. Ok I hit lvl 50 gonna start my HARDMODE gear grind... I goto Tarrel 5 HM start getting tionese comms and crystals but didnt get the columni drop I say ok no biggie I do Prison and T5 once more and complete my daily and weekly quest. I goto the central station and get a piece of Tiones gear I am like sweet its a decent upgrade. But then I happen to make the mistake of looking at the columni vender then GASP the rakata vender and say oh wow my tionese gear is usless ITS TIME TO STOP HM FPs cause my tionese gear is crap.. New expansion releases 10 levels added to game 2 new sets of pvp and pve gear get added. Is the person in Rakata gonna say .... Ug another gear grind I no longer and the best I can be. I cant go around bragging like a peacock saying look at me im pretty......OOOOOR Will he say Wow I can now help the rest of my friends and guild get geared that much easier now and will he say wow new gear and new harder OPS to do new content to test my metal.... Woot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogMeat Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 If we could just get what is on the table it would be great.1.3 and transfers, not in that order if possible. Game has it's flaws and the 2 above will help save some subs. If not to long in getting on the servers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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