Pyrotech: What to do with the last 10 points?

[Qonor]

I don't give a **** about PvP, so stop right there.

 

I have a level 38 pyrotech merc alt that I like a bunch. I'm starting to plan out my level 50 ops dps build. I could see myself putting the last 10 points (assuming I go 31 in the pyrotech tree with Thermal Detonator) all in either Bodyguard or Arsenal, or a mix. There's a lot of good stuff there! So help me out!

 

Below are the skills I'm specifically targetting. What I'm not looking for is a link to a cookie-cutter build. So no need to tell me to read the stickies. What I am looking for is some comments on why the below skills suck or are a must have for operations.

 

Examples of what I'm looking for is, "improved vents isn't really needed for dps, only healing has heat issues." Or, "Stabilizers isn't needed for ops, because you don't suffer pushback in ops as dps." My main is an assassin, so I don't know how pushback is in this game. Thanks.

 

10 points into Bodyguard

2/2 Improved Vents

3/3 Hired Muscle

2/2 Critical Reaction

 

10 points into Arsenal

2/2 Mandalorian Iron Warheads

3/3 Ironsights

1/1 Muzzle Fluting

1/1 Upgraded Arsenal

3/3 Stabilizers

Edited June 2, 2012 by Qonor

[Phrase]

Critical Reaction is the only skill I'd advise against taking as it only grants alacrity for 6 seconds. Not only that, but alacrity is generally reserved for healing specs since you want to speed up the time when the heal hits, esp. if you have someone at a sliver of health.

 

Speeding up Powershot doesn't really help because you'll just end up waiting for the GCD anyway. Speeding up Unload doesn't really help since you're causing damage through the whole channel.

 

I think the 10 point Arsenal spec looks to be the better of the two options on the whole. And pushback reduction is very nice to have for both Unload and Powershot.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Phrase

[Qonor]

Critical Reaction is the only skill I'd advise against taking as it only grants alacrity for 6 seconds. Not only that, but alacrity is generally reserved for healing specs since you want to speed up the time when the heal hits, esp. if you have someone at a sliver of health.

 

Speeding up Powershot doesn't really help because you'll just end up waiting for the GCD anyway. Speeding up Unload doesn't really help since you're causing damage through the whole channel.

 

I think the 10 point Arsenal spec looks to be the better of the two options on the whole. And pushback reduction is very nice to have for both Unload and Powershot.

 

You make some good points. As for speeding up unload, I don't think that's covered in a skill anywhere. What did you mean by it? And you don't think it's too detrimental to leave out 3/3 Hired Muscle?

Edited June 2, 2012 by Qonor

[Phrase]

You make some good points. As for speeding up unload, I don't think that's covered in a skill anywhere. What did you mean by it? And you don't think it's too detrimental to leave out 3/3 Hired Muscle?

 

You can certainly take the 3% crit from Hired Muscle over the pushback reduction from Stabilizers esp. prior to hitting 50. Most people don't b/c the 3% isn't seen as valuable enough to sacrifice the 3 points, whereas the 75% pushback reduction is VERY advantageous. Plus at endgame you can mod armor sets to hit the crit and surge caps fairly easily w/o Hired Muscle.

 

As for Unload, Alacrity actually speeds up the channel of the skill. I'm not sure but I also believe it might reduce the number of ticks of damage (therefore overall damage). Again I'm not sure about the damage reduction, but either way I can't really see any advantage to speeding up the channel.

[Ewert]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZfIzbzGhrs.1

 

Apart from the one point in pyro tree (snare or 1% extra defense, I just plucked it down in snare this time), the off-trees really are obvious.

 

Didn't read full comments as they seemed very off, but some things:

 

GCD is reduced by alacrity too, so all haste things speed up even 1.5 sec skills, so yes it helps powershots. Unload ticks faster, so it is helped. No you will not get hit in ops so much that you want the pushback resistance instead of the +crits. Also there is no _crit_ cap that results in not wanting +crit talents, there is the DR curve on _critical rating_ spesifically, which means you want a balance of power, critical rating, surge rating and maybe at the very high end even a little alacrity (could maybe spreadsheet that if it is true but if you get to the point that it is even a question, you are so highly geared it doesn't matter that much anymore).

 

Pretty much fully geared pyro dps merc with all current content cleared (in 8mans) here, hugging behind the marauder on single targets depending on fights and top area dmg guy pretty much. Also the spec is IMHO more fun (as much fun as dps can be as dps tends to be so easy) than arsenal, as well as with good skills it can do more than arsenal.

[Phrase]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZfIzbzGhrs.1

 

Apart from the one point in pyro tree (snare or 1% extra defense, I just plucked it down in snare this time), the off-trees really are obvious.

 

Didn't read full comments as they seemed very off, but some things:

 

GCD is reduced by alacrity too, so all haste things speed up even 1.5 sec skills, so yes it helps powershots. Unload ticks faster, so it is helped. No you will not get hit in ops so much that you want the pushback resistance instead of the +crits. Also there is no _crit_ cap that results in not wanting +crit talents, there is the DR curve on _critical rating_ spesifically, which means you want a balance of power, critical rating, surge rating and maybe at the very high end even a little alacrity (could maybe spreadsheet that if it is true but if you get to the point that it is even a question, you are so highly geared it doesn't matter that much anymore).

 

Pretty much fully geared pyro dps merc with all current content cleared (in 8mans) here, hugging behind the marauder on single targets depending on fights and top area dmg guy pretty much. Also the spec is IMHO more fun (as much fun as dps can be as dps tends to be so easy) than arsenal, as well as with good skills it can do more than arsenal.

 

Probably wise to listen to this guy since I pretty much only pvp. Looks like the pve game is totally different.

[Isxossk]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZfIzbzGhrs.1

 

Apart from the one point in pyro tree (snare or 1% extra defense, I just plucked it down in snare this time), the off-trees really are obvious.

 

Didn't read full comments as they seemed very off, but some things:

 

GCD is reduced by alacrity too, so all haste things speed up even 1.5 sec skills, so yes it helps powershots. Unload ticks faster, so it is helped. No you will not get hit in ops so much that you want the pushback resistance instead of the +crits. Also there is no _crit_ cap that results in not wanting +crit talents, there is the DR curve on _critical rating_ spesifically, which means you want a balance of power, critical rating, surge rating and maybe at the very high end even a little alacrity (could maybe spreadsheet that if it is true but if you get to the point that it is even a question, you are so highly geared it doesn't matter that much anymore).

 

Pretty much fully geared pyro dps merc with all current content cleared (in 8mans) here, hugging behind the marauder on single targets depending on fights and top area dmg guy pretty much. Also the spec is IMHO more fun (as much fun as dps can be as dps tends to be so easy) than arsenal, as well as with good skills it can do more than arsenal.

 

My only comment on your build is around sweltering heat. I wouldn't invest any points in a skill that can get to 100% if I wasn't going to put full points into it. To me it's not worth it when you can get to 100% chance and a waste of a point. Just my two cents.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Isxossk

[Qonor]

You can certainly take the 3% crit from Hired Muscle over the pushback reduction from Stabilizers esp. prior to hitting 50. Most people don't b/c the 3% isn't seen as valuable enough to sacrifice the 3 points, whereas the 75% pushback reduction is VERY advantageous. Plus at endgame you can mod armor sets to hit the crit and surge caps fairly easily w/o Hired Muscle.

 

As for Unload, Alacrity actually speeds up the channel of the skill. I'm not sure but I also believe it might reduce the number of ticks of damage (therefore overall damage). Again I'm not sure about the damage reduction, but either way I can't really see any advantage to speeding up the channel.

 

Skills usually don't affect diminishing returns. Only your rating does. I'm surprised you mention preventing pushback is advantageous for ops...interesting. And speeding up channels increases mobility and dps.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZfIzbzGhrs.1

 

Apart from the one point in pyro tree (snare or 1% extra defense, I just plucked it down in snare this time), the off-trees really are obvious.

 

Didn't read full comments as they seemed very off, but some things:

 

GCD is reduced by alacrity too, so all haste things speed up even 1.5 sec skills, so yes it helps powershots. Unload ticks faster, so it is helped. No you will not get hit in ops so much that you want the pushback resistance instead of the +crits. Also there is no _crit_ cap that results in not wanting +crit talents, there is the DR curve on _critical rating_ spesifically, which means you want a balance of power, critical rating, surge rating and maybe at the very high end even a little alacrity (could maybe spreadsheet that if it is true but if you get to the point that it is even a question, you are so highly geared it doesn't matter that much anymore).

 

Pretty much fully geared pyro dps merc with all current content cleared (in 8mans) here, hugging behind the marauder on single targets depending on fights and top area dmg guy pretty much. Also the spec is IMHO more fun (as much fun as dps can be as dps tends to be so easy) than arsenal, as well as with good skills it can do more than arsenal.

 

Thanks. This confirms a lot of what I was thinking.

 

My only comment on your build is around sweltering heat. I wouldn't invest any points in a skill that can get to 100% if I wasn't going to put full points into it. To me it's not worth it when you can get to 100% chance and a waste of a point. Just my two cents.

 

Agreed. I will not be taking Integrated Cardio Package (+3% endurance) at all, and will be taking 2/2 Sweltering Heat.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Qonor

[Ewert]

My only comment on your build is around sweltering heat. I wouldn't invest any points in a skill that can get to 100% if I wasn't going to put full points into it. To me it's not worth it when you can get to 100% chance and a waste of a point. Just my two cents.

Yes and if you read the post I mentioned it was just a freebie point needed to lvl up the tree. Pluck it in 1% melee/ranged defense or there ...

[Ewert]

Agreed. I will not be taking Integrated Cardio Package (+3% endurance) at all, and will be taking 2/2 Sweltering Heat.

In Denova, that +3% will be of more use than snares, even if they could be applied (which they often can't be on mobs that matter). In fact, doubt the snare will help you at any op fight that matters, hence the 3% endurance in there ...

[Sookster]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300rZMcoZMIrbzGhrs.1

 

That's my build, the 3% crit chance isn't worth it since it used to be 6%, and you can move that 1 point from upgraded arsenal to muzzle fluting if you use power shot often (I don't). The only cast ability I use is unload, I use power surge+sensors override with fusion missile, and heal when needed so I disregard the alacrity increase.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Sookster

[T-Assassin]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300rZMcoZMIrbzGhrs.1

 

That's my build, the 3% crit chance isn't worth it since it used to be 6%, and you can move that 1 point from upgraded arsenal to muzzle fluting if you use power shot often (I don't). The only cast ability I use is unload, I use power surge+sensors override with fusion missile, and heal when needed so I disregard the alacrity increase.

 

do you have that much difficulty with heat, that you need to use 2 points in BG tree for an extra 16 heat?

 

and i gotta say, if you ar not using power shot, you are playing Merc incorrectly. (imho)

 

hell, i'd even put the pts in hired muscle first...

 

to each his own tho, if it works for you. (seriously, not some off-hand insult)

[Sookster]

I've had my merc as pyro from level 10 since December when I rolled him right after rolling my main, power shot was ok back then and did ok damage, but it does crappy damage now and is an interrupt magnet and even at 45% chance for railshot proc, it's still low as often takes 3 power shot casts before it procs when I could be casting TD, fusion missile, among other things while unload is cooling down, 2 railshots and other abilities are plentiful. In WZ I still top damage without even using power shot if my team is doing well, but sadly I'm a huuuuuuuuuuge marauder/sentinal magnet (sometimes fun, sometimes overly annoying).

 

But yes, to each his own, merc pyro doesn't play quite the same as PT pyro (which I also have but is currently shieldtech spec).

Edited June 3, 2012 by Sookster

[Ewert]

snip

Reread the opening of the original post, and you'll notice this is PvE operations thread.

 

For PvE, going without Muzzle Fluting is just plain fail.

[Sookster]

Reread the opening of the original post, and you'll notice this is PvE operations thread.

 

For PvE, going without Muzzle Fluting is just plain fail.

 

I do HM/operations with mine, I even do it on my madness assassin when people tell me deception is better for that.

[Ewert]

I do HM/operations with mine, I even do it on my madness assassin when people tell me deception is better for that.

Well people can do stuff unoptimized, but power shots is so much higher dps than unload still that not getting muzzle fluting is just plain fail, IMO.

 

For me overall power shots are up there with burning tech tied for 1st place of overall dmg. Actually right now it is #1, lowering my #1 dps skill by 25% results in a whopping 5% drop of overall dmg crudely calculated. Take some minor heat management, and it can be little less than 5%, but for bursting it is more than 5% (and damn isn't there ton of burst moments in Denova).

 

So, no, going without MF is not IMHO a good option at all.

[Qonor]

I'm level 47 now, and Muzzle Fluting is amazing. That half second makes such a difference.

[T-Assassin]

I'm level 47 now, and Muzzle Fluting is amazing. That half second makes such a difference.

 

and you probably forgot the pushback u used to get, huh? (i know i have )

 

that is HUGE!!!!

[Qonor]

and you probably forgot the pushback u used to get, huh? (i know i have )

 

that is HUGE!!!!

 

I actually don't get pushback since I use a tank companion. Are you saying that if I were getting hit I won't suffer pushback anyway? Sounds awesome if so.

[T-Assassin]

I actually don't get pushback since I use a tank companion. Are you saying that if I were getting hit I won't suffer pushback anyway? Sounds awesome if so.

 

that's EXACTLY what i am sayin.

 

pushback is the interruptions of casting due to taking damage. huge for healers and casters moreso than a Merc/PT...but, very usefull, since i tend to have agro a lot and PvP.

 

for STRICTLY PvE, i'd do this: *EDIT* with one T1 floating point...i just threw it in GAJ.

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/mercenary/#::f17ef5ef6ef8e8de2f2e2fe2fe

Edited June 14, 2012 by T-Assassin

[Qonor]

that's EXACTLY what i am sayin.

 

pushback is the interruptions of casting due to taking damage. huge for healers and casters moreso than a Merc/PT...but, very usefull, since i tend to have agro a lot and PvP.

 

for STRICTLY PvE, i'd do this: *EDIT* with one T1 floating point...i just threw it in GAJ.

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/mercenary/#::f17ef5ef6ef8e8de2f2e2fe2fe

 

So after playing my merc at 50 for a while, primarily doing Black Hole dailies (I haven't done as many operations with him as I would like since he's an alt), I've found that I hate pushback (especially on Unload). It's to the point where I dislike playing him solely because of the pushback. I'm thinking I'll either go Arsenal and take Stabilizers, or stay Pyro, get rid of Hired Muscle and take Stabilizers. I know it's a DPS loss, but by how much?

[Gyronamics]

So after playing my merc at 50 for a while, primarily doing Black Hole dailies (I haven't done as many operations with him as I would like since he's an alt), I've found that I hate pushback (especially on Unload). It's to the point where I dislike playing him solely because of the pushback. I'm thinking I'll either go Arsenal and take Stabilizers, or stay Pyro, get rid of Hired Muscle and take Stabilizers. I know it's a DPS loss, but by how much?

 

Hard to say just how much DPS you'd lose by emulating an Arsenal spec as Pyro.

 

What you're after is what Arsenal has by default.

 

To gain pushback resistance you lose crit.

 

To gain a defensive boost like Arsenal has you spec for fast shield CD but lose fast CD on venting and self-healing.

 

Sounds like a dps loss all right because even with resistance you still get a slow cast. It's only a 75% pushback reduction.

 

I try to play to the strengths personally.

 

Pyro has a practical snare and superior on the move damage, when it's no longer viable to cast you drop it, kite, LOS and it's all good practice for PVP.

 

When you have enough space you cast and you use stuns/knockbacks to create distance and time.