An Appeal to Modify Conditional Skills

[Star-ranger]

There are many skills in this game that require conditions to be met before you can use them. Example: target must be below 30% health, or target must be incapacitated.

 

Please consider modifying these skills to work even when the special conditions are not met. Make them do normal damage until the conditions are met then do bonus damage. Skills with backstabbing, incapacitation, or health thresholds should all work under normal frontal circumstances and get their special bonus when the conditions are met.

 

The same is true with special weapons like the shot gun. You should be able to use the shot gun at short range with a cone and a lot of knockback when somebody's comming at you instead of just shooting somebody in the back with it.

 

Just to be honest it's a real pain to have powers in your tray that only rarely work when certain special conditions are met. Please rethink the way these skills and items work.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Star-ranger

[pmeeps]

absolutely not. learn to play.

[trussasp]

They couldn't do this, not easily anyway, due to the amount of work that would be needed to properly re-balance everything.

[Mallorik]

I think the skills that can only be used at below 30% hp are fine, i dont really see how they benefit the game, but atleast they are usable in almost any aspect of the game ie pvp, solo, group, raids.

 

The other ones that require the target to be rooted or stunned and do not work in pvp or on anything above a "strong" are imo a waste of space on your hot bar for anything but solo play.

[Lurchy]

Also, what would be the point in putting the reduced effect skills in your rotation anyway?

Having skills that require pre-conditions to use actually means that you have to occasionally glance up at the monitor when you are grinding your dailys

[venomlash]

I do not support this. The point of these skills is to encourage people to build up combos rather than just spamming or button-mashing.

[GnatB]

There are many skills in this game that require conditions to be met before you can use them. Example: target must be below 30% health, or target must be incapacitated.

 

Please consider modifying these skills to work even when the special conditions are not met. Make them do normal damage until the conditions are met then do bonus damage. Skills with backstabbing, incapacitation, or health thresholds should all work under normal frontal circumstances and get their special bonus when the conditions are met.

 

The same is true with special weapons like the shot gun. You should be able to use the shot gun at short range with a cone and a lot of knockback when somebody's comming at you instead of just shooting somebody in the back with it.

 

Just to be honest it's a real pain to have powers in your tray that only rarely work when certain special conditions are met. Please rethink the way these skills and items work.

 

No thanks, that would make it harder to use them. You couldn't simply press that button AND other buttons, and only use up their cooldowns when they would actually be effective.

[SlimsPicken]

I have a solution to all the "useable only on standard/weak mobs who are incapacitated" powers (aka BLOAT)

 

I dont ever buy them from the trainer.

 

I never miss them. problem solved.

 

The worst are imperial agents...they actualy get two versions of these useless abilities! one for range and one for melee... lol.

 

when 4 action bars of 12 rows each is still not enough, just skip the bloat skills.

 

The finisher abilities (i.e used when mobs are at 30% health < less) are awesome and need no change- except to add them to every class ... its the lame *** conditionals that have 12 conditions (standard/weak mobs...lol ) that are worthless.

[Star-ranger]

Also, what would be the point in putting the reduced effect skills in your rotation anyway?

Having skills that require pre-conditions to use actually means that you have to occasionally glance up at the monitor when you are grinding your dailys

 

Not reduced effect skills. Skills that do normal damage and then bonus damage or effect when the conditions are met. That way they don't lie useless most of the time. At least you get some functionality out of them most of the time.

 

So the current system makes no sense from a fighting stand point. Look you don't have your gun saying to you "Nope, you can't shoot me unless that guy is mostly dead", and your foot doesn't say to you "Gee you can't kick that guy unless he's out of it". No, you should still be able to shoot your shotgun, even in the Star Wars universe, even if you're not using it to shoot your opponent in the back of the head.

 

Kicking your opponent when they're down should do more damage than when you kick them otherwise, and shooting or stabbing somebody in the back should do more damage than when they're expecting it and can dodge.

 

It would have been better if they'd left conditional moves out all together and just had the program read the situation and apply extra damage and effects as appropriate situationally. The the game can already read facing (because it fails to activate a back stab if you're not behind someone) for purposes of extra damage. And the program can certainly tell if somebody is below 30% since it won't let you use the attack if they're not.

 

Frankly I'd rather have something that was usefull all the time and could be used while other skills are cooling down than powers that can only be used once in a while. IMHO I can't understand why a shotgun must be used only from behind... or for that matter why it can't be used as a primary weapon.

 

Of course I'm only asking for things to make sense, which is probably too much to ask.

[paul_preib]

All of these help to add a color to teleplay over blanket rotations that can function in nearly all circumstances.

 

There are also some where the benefit might be deemed too useful even if the damage is dialed back before that 30% marker--

 

Just for one specific example on a sentinel for example Dispatch does very solid damage, but merciless slash can hit almost as hard what is the difference? Dispatch is a short range instead of melee ability that uses significantly less focus.

 

The reason for this is that it is built to be an execute-type ability to help peg down runners. There is already a similar ranged ability that does less damage called blade storm which would be rendered irrelevant if dispatch damage was dialed down to its level because one uses more focus then the other. If damage was any lower it would once again be superfluous as just a capping tool because there is already crippling throw.

 

So changed in the manner you present it would either do enough damage to render another ability completely irrelevant, or not do enough damage to be at all relevant.

[MaximusRex]

Conditional skills are fine, but some with strict conditions seems to have strangely long cooldowns as well. Such as the Pommel Strike, that only works on non-player stunned mobs that are strong or weak has a 45 second cooldown. Would it be so terrible if a SW could solo a smidge faster?

[LastArgument]

I just dislike how some of the conditional skills aren't usable on players or mobs of a certain quality (gold) or higher.

 

Everyone should know the glory of the Jedi Backhand!

[Lurchy]

Not reduced effect skills. Skills that do normal damage and then bonus damage or effect when the conditions are met. That way they don't lie useless most of the time. At least you get some functionality out of them most of the time.

 

So the current system makes no sense from a fighting stand point. Look you don't have your gun saying to you "Nope, you can't shoot me unless that guy is mostly dead", and your foot doesn't say to you "Gee you can't kick that guy unless he's out of it". No, you should still be able to shoot your shotgun, even in the Star Wars universe, even if you're not using it to shoot your opponent in the back of the head.

 

Kicking your opponent when they're down should do more damage than when you kick them otherwise, and shooting or stabbing somebody in the back should do more damage than when they're expecting it and can dodge.

 

It would have been better if they'd left conditional moves out all together and just had the program read the situation and apply extra damage and effects as appropriate situationally. The the game can already read facing (because it fails to activate a back stab if you're not behind someone) for purposes of extra damage. And the program can certainly tell if somebody is below 30% since it won't let you use the attack if they're not.

 

Frankly I'd rather have something that was usefull all the time and could be used while other skills are cooling down than powers that can only be used once in a while. IMHO I can't understand why a shotgun must be used only from behind... or for that matter why it can't be used as a primary weapon.

 

Of course I'm only asking for things to make sense, which is probably too much to ask.

 

Whichever way someone trys to read what your saying it is hard not to just think 'this guy just wants to mindlessly button mash'. Having skills that are conditional but worthwhile when the conditions are met means that to achieve maximum DPS the player has to be observant, think and (in some cases) move.

[Star-ranger]

I have a solution to all the "useable only on standard/weak mobs who are incapacitated" powers (aka BLOAT)

 

I dont ever buy them from the trainer.

 

I never miss them. problem solved.

 

The worst are imperial agents...they actualy get two versions of these useless abilities! one for range and one for melee... lol.

 

when 4 action bars of 12 rows each is still not enough, just skip the bloat skills.

 

The finisher abilities (i.e used when mobs are at 30% health < less) are awesome and need no change- except to add them to every class ... its the lame *** conditionals that have 12 conditions (standard/weak mobs...lol ) that are worthless.

 

Granted there are a lot of filler skills in the trees and skill sets.

 

Yes they could have streamlined the combat in this game a little and gotten more milage and better PvP balancing as well for fewer hot buttons.

 

There's no reason why they couldn't have built a finisher options into skills that have a normal attack.

 

I've always thought the skill-hotkey system here was unnecessarily overly complicated for the functionality. Of course I'm comming from a Pen and Paper design background and 30+ years of RPG gaming experience on and off line.

[Razdek]

I agree to some extent but overall i couldnt agree withthe changes. For example my shoulder slam on my bh is practically useless. The conditions to use it are rarely met even after i have stunned/incappacitaed a target (dont know if its bugged?) but either way 90% of the time my rocket punch is available for use and better for my rotation and usually hits harder. I think i use shoulder slam maybe once a day... Its a waste of space and overall a pretty crappy skill.

 

But things such as back blast etc on agesnts and smugglers.... Well its called that for a reason. Those moves (rogue esk skills) have always been conditional... They are extremely hard hitting skills (more so then other conditional skills) and are conditional for balance and are part of the flavour of that class. I mean if a smuggler or agent can star locking you down with stuns they tear you apart as it is. If you removed those conditions... Hell no.

[Star-ranger]

Whichever way someone trys to read what your saying it is hard not to just think 'this guy just wants to mindlessly button mash'. Having skills that are conditional but worthwhile when the conditions are met means that to achieve maximum DPS the player has to be observant, think and (in some cases) move.

 

Failure to perceive and the ability to misread is endemic to the internet and MMO boards in general. One can not simply attribute

 

Right now the system is whack a mole. Hot key lights up you hit the button. How different is that from Pavlov's dog? Ring the bell--> Drool. Chicken in the cage with the piano. Hits a key gets a piece of food. That's strategy? That's tactics? I think we're not playing the game, the game is playing us.

 

It's not the way I would have designed it, but then we have to work with what we have...and it would be an improvement to make all the keys functional with bonuses.

[Calsidian]

I don't really see it as an improvement. The abilities such as Should Slam are indeed pointless, but that's why I just don't train it to begin with. Execute and positional abilities are fine though. I honestly don't see how your proposal adds anything worthwhile.

[Gungan]

I find the ones that require your target to be incapacitated completely friggin useless unless you're fighting the weakest possible mobs who fall over when you fart. Edited May 29, 2012 by Gungan

[Lugosi]

Not reduced effect skills. Skills that do normal damage and then bonus damage or effect when the conditions are met. That way they don't lie useless most of the time. At least you get some functionality out of them most of the time.

 

 

Define normal damage. If they are usable all the time with as much functionality as your primary skills it would require pointless rebalancing. If they aren't as good they don't make the rotation anyway, why bother.

[JimG]

I do not support this. The point of these skills is to encourage people to build up combos rather than just spamming or button-mashing.

 

Agreed

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

If you want months of re balancing go for it. Otherwise, learn to play. It's not that hard to meet the conditions.

[Lurchy]

Define normal damage. If they are usable all the time with as much functionality as your primary skills it would require pointless rebalancing. If they aren't as good they don't make the rotation anyway, why bother.

 

This guy said what I was trying to in my first response but more eloquently

[vojinsa]

absolutely not. learn to play.

 

 

I support this.

[SerikFox]

There are many skills in this game that require conditions to be met before you can use them. Example: target must be below 30% health, or target must be incapacitated.

 

Please consider modifying these skills to work even when the special conditions are not met. Make them do normal damage until the conditions are met then do bonus damage. Skills with backstabbing, incapacitation, or health thresholds should all work under normal frontal circumstances and get their special bonus when the conditions are met.

 

The same is true with special weapons like the shot gun. You should be able to use the shot gun at short range with a cone and a lot of knockback when somebody's comming at you instead of just shooting somebody in the back with it.

 

Just to be honest it's a real pain to have powers in your tray that only rarely work when certain special conditions are met. Please rethink the way these skills and items work.

 

The point is that they are difficult to use. They're fine the way they are.

[Star-ranger]

I agree to some extent but overall i couldnt agree withthe changes. For example my shoulder slam on my bh is practically useless. The conditions to use it are rarely met even after i have stunned/incappacitaed a target (dont know if its bugged?) but either way 90% of the time my rocket punch is available for use and better for my rotation and usually hits harder. I think i use shoulder slam maybe once a day... Its a waste of space and overall a pretty crappy skill.

 

But things such as back blast etc on agesnts and smugglers.... Well its called that for a reason. Those moves (rogue esk skills) have always been conditional... They are extremely hard hitting skills (more so then other conditional skills) and are conditional for balance and are part of the flavour of that class. I mean if a smuggler or agent can star locking you down with stuns they tear you apart as it is. If you removed those conditions... Hell no.

 

I'm not suggesting that super hard hitting skills should deliver that effect outside their condition, nor apply stuns or holds outside their specificed conditions. I'm suggesting that a back shot used in front might do normal weapons damage: i.e. if your shotgun does 45-69 damage that's what the damage would be if you used a back shot when you're not behind them. This would build in more flexibility to the system.

 

The SWTOR combat system is based not on believable sci-fi combat, but adapted from fantasy combat borrowed from WOW and similar fantasy MMOs. As such it contains a lot of strange stuff for the Star Wars Universe... the conditional skills being one of them. Giving some usefulness to the mostly useless conditional skills would go a ways to making things better.