32/2/7 Guardian Build - Decent?

[chritie]

Hi everyone.

 

I've been barking up the tank tree because, honestly, why would you want to be a low-mediocre DPS? Capitalize on your class strengths and all that. So, the build I came up with is:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500RruduzrdfzZ0MZhr.1

 

The basic logic behind it is to be a tank first and foremost, but to also taunt/startle people/groups into attacking you. So the basic strategy is to get 5 stacks of sunder armor(2 stacks per whack) and hope for a Guardian Strike critical on single point targets(DPS all up in your healers business), or to scare the bejesus out of a group of people hitting your door or node with a slightly amped up Force Sweep critical. Sure, you won't kill a group or even a single target most of the time, but you'll likely be tagged with a 2-4k critical(4 is pushing haha) on a group of like 4 people or a single target, which is really what the goal is, misdirection. And if they don't, well you'll have a bit more whacking power to beat them until they can't ignore you anymore, or die. With some taunting, they'll have no choice but to attack you really(or they're being kinda stupid; Guards are free kills right?) and then you can harrass them with sweeps and single target whacks.

 

I like it because it's flexible and works well with guard/taunts. Basic rotations include:

 

Entry:

Taunt->Leap->Sunder->Blade Storm

 

Leap->Sunder->Hilt Strike->Taunt->Blade Storm

 

Rotation:

Sunder->Sweep->Sunder->Blade Storm->Sunder->Guard Slash->Sunder->Blade Storm->Sunder->Sweep

 

Not going to list a bunch(or even complicated ones), just a couple to get a minimal idea of what the build is good for(AKA: Not damage, just harassment).

 

Any thoughts?

Edited May 29, 2012 by chritie

[Gren-Aluren]

Honestly for PvP tanking as a Guardian you'll want to be in the Vigilance tree at least enough to get Commanding Awe. You'll have lots of on-demand damage reduction for certain situations and CC immunity after leaps (Which is extremely useful in Huttball.) Then take free snare and warding call in the defense tree. It's up to you if you want the Riposte skills, Blade Barrier or Stasis Mastery. But I honestly feel like the free snare is a must as spamming that non-stop in a warzone can be extremely beneficial to your team. As for myself I prefer Forch Rush for crit chance on Dispatch and Blade storm over 20% dmg on Force Sweep.

 

I've done tests myself in both specs and the DPS is almost identical but you get way more survivability from Vigilance tree. It's also a small trade off of AoE burst for Single Target burst. Which I prefer to have especially since your job most of the time should be harassing light armor healers.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Gren-Aluren

[chritie]

Interesting.

 

So you're talking about something like:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500Rrhbu0MZcRroruzzM.1

 

Hmm... Makes sense, nothing higher in the defense tree is really a must have. Same thing in the vigilance tree. And the focus tree just looks really squishy in comparison.

 

Thanks for the input, I'll keep fiddling, but I don't think that any other build at the moment could capitalize on the class strengths of Guardians like this does. At least on paper.

[TheOpf]

Interesting.

 

So you're talking about something like:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500Rrhbu0MZcRroruzzM.1

 

Hmm... Makes sense, nothing higher in the defense tree is really a must have. Same thing in the vigilance tree. And the focus tree just looks really squishy in comparison.

 

Thanks for the input, I'll keep fiddling, but I don't think that any other build at the moment could capitalize on the class strengths of Guardians like this does. At least on paper.

 

I don't like Focused defense that much. i was thinking something more like

 

I have a couple of builds I was looking at and wanted some input from other tank spec pvpers.

 

Unremitting Control

 

Picking up Unremitting and no Cost Force Sweep for both control and damage.

 

Deep tank

 

Is Gaurdian Slash worth it?

 

For more control, Hilt strike is a pretty nice stun, and reduced force push is something I don't want to give up.

[wadecounty]

I don't like Focused defense that much. i was thinking something more like

 

I have a couple of builds I was looking at and wanted some input from other tank spec pvpers.

 

Unremitting Control

 

Picking up Unremitting and no Cost Force Sweep for both control and damage.

 

Deep tank

 

Is Gaurdian Slash worth it?

 

For more control, Hilt strike is a pretty nice stun, and reduced force push is something I don't want to give up.

Hey Opf, enjoy your posts int he Vanguard forum.

 

The problem with your first build is you'd have absolutely no DPS output, but that is for the most part the best spec for complete control in PvP, although you could play around with the points some.

 

For the second one, the problem with going all the way up the tank tree for PvP is a lot of the talents are dedicated to bringing Soresu's Focus generation back to normal levels, but in PvP the fights are quick and sporadic so its not as useful, and 5 of those skill points (Courage and Cyclonic Sweeps) are only benefitting your Focus generation when the enemy attacks you, meaning if they don't (and smart ones won't), you're still Focus starved.

 

My question to you would be, what is your ultimate goal? To be as tanky as possible with no regard for offense (you plan to always queue with at least 1 good DPS and 1 good healer)? Or to be very tanky but also well rounded, and capable of putting a hurt on your opponents?

 

For the former, I'd go something like this for PvP.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/guardian#c1e7j0kek-20d2f-20

 

You get every really nice control/cooldown in the tank tree, and you still get unremitting (must-have for PvP unless you plan to play a full Focus Guardian). Between the accuracy debuff tied to Sweep and the full Riposte combo, you become a highly effective counter to Marauders, Juggernauts and Snipers. Blade Barrier gives mitigation comparable to the 4% DR you'd get from Commanding Awe in the Vigilance tree, but you also get the extra 5 seconds duration to Enure, which can be a lifetime in PvP (over 3 GCD's).

 

Courage helps you to manage your Focus for the Blade Storms and Sweeps you'll be putting out as the main part of your rotation, though you will have to mix in some regular Slashes, especially against opponents that rely solely on yellow damage (no Riposte procs). Hilt Strike + no channel Stasis + Awe + lowered cd on Force Push + Unremitting makes you pretty much king of the battlefield, constantly triggering immunity to CC and able to dish out a lot of it yourself. You're not going to effectively kill anything, but you will outlast anything.

 

For gear, I'd suggest mostly DPS stuff but I would consider the tank chest and legs as they have an interesting combo of Defense and Surge (and Surge is lacking in the BM DPS set), and Defense is the one stat you'd want to work on a bit.

 

If you're more interested in being well-rounded, and willing to sacrifice some control abilities, I'd take something more like this.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/guardian#108e8-k1die6e2f-2

 

Defensively, you have unremitting, Commanding Awe (flat 4% DR AND you gain 15% DR when Focused Defense is active, turning it into another defensive CD rather than just a small self heal), Warding Call and a small bit of extra defense from Guard Stance. You also retain that spammable slow, which is amazing in PvP.

 

Offensively, you have a 1 focus cost Riposte which is a great attack because its off the GCD, the Overhead Slash/Blade Storm combo from Force Rush (or Dispatch if they're under 30%), and Zen Strike which acts as both a Master Strike buff (resets the cd on it) and Focus saver (refunds 2 Focus when it procs, and everytime you use Master Strike you're saving Focus). You also get Shien which is a great form to switch to in pure offense situations.

 

The last 2 points in the Focus tree are up to you, I like to boost my Master Strike damage because its my highest priority and hardest hitting attack, but boosting Sweep's damage along with lowering its CD can give you a simpler rotation.

Edited May 31, 2012 by wadecounty

[chritie]

Something that I'm finding is that I am doing mostly single point targeting. I don't really miss hilt strike and everyone else is stunning everyone else anyway, so I just Pommel Strike any nearby stuns as I run around my target near my healer/DPS that I have guard on. Of course I also sweep and cyclone quite a bit as well when other moves are on CD, But they're mostly just for extra damage or to cause dumber people to attack me rather than someone else.

 

So, what I've been finding really effective is this.

 

My reasoning is:

- I prefer an instant stasis for it's utility across the board and mild distance.

- Warding Call goes well with Enure when Sabre Ward is on CD.

- I use Riposte and Blade Storm a lot so Blade Barricade and Blade Barrier do wonders for my survivability.

- Overhead Slash and Blade Storm fit nicely into my rotations and play style.

- Causing elemental damage with every Blade Storm adds up and is very nice. Use it a lot.

 

As someone who always is sharing his HP with someone else, I find that they extra passive abilities are a great touch. Additionally, I really like having the ability to do a bit extra damage on my targets, mostly caused by having another low CD ability I can use that does more than a few hundred.

 

I play in a very high movement way. I'm never standing still and am always zipping around in the 15 metres around the person I'm guarding either circling my target and making sure my AoEs hit everyone nearby or going a bit out of range to lay a few harassing rotations on someone or running into the centre of the opposing team to fire off challenging call and snares when everyone is engaged. Very annoying tactics, but they work.

 

I think I've found the build that works for me right now. It'll probably change, but this fits how I like to play.

[TheOpf]

Something that I'm finding is that I am doing mostly single point targeting. I don't really miss hilt strike and everyone else is stunning everyone else anyway, so I just Pommel Strike any nearby stuns as I run around my target near my healer/DPS that I have guard on. Of course I also sweep and cyclone quite a bit as well when other moves are on CD, But they're mostly just for extra damage or to cause dumber people to attack me rather than someone else.

 

So, what I've been finding really effective is this.

 

My reasoning is:

- I prefer an instant stasis for it's utility across the board and mild distance.

- Warding Call goes well with Enure when Sabre Ward is on CD.

- I use Riposte and Blade Storm a lot so Blade Barricade and Blade Barrier do wonders for my survivability.

- Overhead Slash and Blade Storm fit nicely into my rotations and play style.

- Causing elemental damage with every Blade Storm adds up and is very nice. Use it a lot.

 

As someone who always is sharing his HP with someone else, I find that they extra passive abilities are a great touch. Additionally, I really like having the ability to do a bit extra damage on my targets, mostly caused by having another low CD ability I can use that does more than a few hundred.

 

I play in a very high movement way. I'm never standing still and am always zipping around in the 15 metres around the person I'm guarding either circling my target and making sure my AoEs hit everyone nearby or going a bit out of range to lay a few harassing rotations on someone or running into the centre of the opposing team to fire off challenging call and snares when everyone is engaged. Very annoying tactics, but they work.

 

I think I've found the build that works for me right now. It'll probably change, but this fits how I like to play.

 

I like the Blade Storm idea, but I really like Hilt Strike because it knocks someone on the floor, plus with your build I don't get reduced cooldown on Force push which in my case is one of my most used and loved abilities.

 

I play mainly with a Sage dps, Vanguard dps, and either smuggler or sage healer depending on who is online. My job is to protect and keep dps guys off of our heals, and keep our dps alive long enough to kill them. I am used to my PT and my operative so sometimes I get too far from everyone and end up chasing and jumping to ranged.

 

I will be tanking HM's and FP's later on, but for now it's pvp fun.