Turned off lvl 50 pvp straight away

[Blloodbane]

like how pvp pre 50 was not about the gear it was about the skill of the play and there skills they had. in 50 wz this is none existent which is kind sad, but it is how it is.

 

Ehhhhhhh wrong.... its very gear dependent... Bolster drastically affects gear... if your gear is top notch for your level, you destroy others...

 

IMHO, PVP pre 50 and post 50 is fun for 2 very different reasons... pre 50 is just there, and completely chaotic and random, but fun... Post 50 its A LOT more challenging and less forgiving for bad play...

 

I will end this comment on this... Those complaining about PVP gear and "skill".... MMO is aout gear grind, always has been... if you dont like a gear based game... simple... dont play it and get yourself an X box or something and go with that.

 

To say gear grind for PVP is stupid and is about as stupid as saying gear grind to do hardmode ops is stupid... So other than whining that someone is better geared than you, what is your solution to give to people that spend a lot of time PVP? Nothing but a title? Really?

 

Stop being lazy, take your dad gum licks and get your gear, you still gain even for losing, dad gum babies all around. I suppose if the U.S. gets in to another combat conflict they should just give all their military hardware away and make it "fair" so those Taliban can fight on even ground.

[ProfessorWalsh]

*snip*

 

We've taken our licks man. On our server the Empire runs around in full Warzone in premades 24/7 while the Reps can barely get a 7 person PUG together half of which are in recruit gear. It is no longer fun.

[UGLYMRJ]

Ehhhhhhh wrong.... its very gear dependent... Bolster drastically affects gear... if your gear is top notch for your level, you destroy others...

 

IMHO, PVP pre 50 and post 50 is fun for 2 very different reasons... pre 50 is just there, and completely chaotic and random, but fun... Post 50 its A LOT more challenging and less forgiving for bad play...

 

I will end this comment on this... Those complaining about PVP gear and "skill".... MMO is aout gear grind, always has been... if you dont like a gear based game... simple... dont play it and get yourself an X box or something and go with that.

 

To say gear grind for PVP is stupid and is about as stupid as saying gear grind to do hardmode ops is stupid... So other than whining that someone is better geared than you, what is your solution to give to people that spend a lot of time PVP? Nothing but a title? Really?

 

Stop being lazy, take your dad gum licks and get your gear, you still gain even for losing, dad gum babies all around. I suppose if the U.S. gets in to another combat conflict they should just give all their military hardware away and make it "fair" so those Taliban can fight on even ground.

 

+1 to all of this except for the use of the words "dad gum"

 

All is true and honestly, as much as I love the game as is and what it will potentially become... I wish the grind was tougher. Level 50 can be done in a casual month and a half to 2 months and even tho WH is a pretty good grind full BM can be done in a few days of hard WZ grinding.

[Blloodbane]

We've taken our licks man. On our server the Empire runs around in full Warzone in premades 24/7 while the Reps can barely get a 7 person PUG together half of which are in recruit gear. It is no longer fun.

 

Oh I feel ya, I still take my licks, there is Republic premade that is TOUGH that usually plays when I play and they rarely lose. My servers population took a huge jump recently, so havent checked in a couple of weeks. They always ran 3 to 4 sages 2 to 3 commandoes, 1 to 2 gunslinger/scoundrels, 1 of something else... You should have felt the licks BEFORE recruit gear and took forever to get Cent gear as a starter, even longer for Champ gear (which people got hosed on the patch changes) and even Longer to get Battlemaster... Now you hit 50 and sneeze and you can get 2 pieces of BM gear, or more....

 

I feel your problem is more in tune with the line of lack of population and the lack of those that PVP.

[Blloodbane]

+1 to all of this except for the use of the words "dad gum"

 

All is true and honestly, as much as I love the game as is and what it will potentially become... I wish the grind was tougher. Level 50 can be done in a casual month and a half to 2 months and even tho WH is a pretty good grind full BM can be done in a few days of hard WZ grinding.

 

I use "dad gum" cus I have a 4 year old son I dont want to curse around, try to avoid getting posts removed, and I am Southern.....

 

Gear is stupid easy to get in this game....

[Ballisticbryan]

i would rather be playing against people that dont care what gear they have and just want to have fun , then against people that complain about gear and dont want to grind.. the people that get good at pvp , are the ones that constantly are getting their asses kicked when they are a fresh 50. they learn how to survive better ,and will do whatever they can to improve their gameplay. if they dont , they quit like the OP did.

[Tatebomb]

like how pvp pre 50 was not about the gear it was about the skill of the play and there skills they had. in 50 wz this is none existent which is kind sad, but it is how it is.

 

Actually this is incorrect. Gear scales in 10-49 so if you're in all purples at 20 you're gonna crush the 40 in greens.

[Spaj]

Actually this is incorrect. Gear scales in 10-49 so if you're in all purples at 20 you're gonna crush the 40 in greens.

 

This is very true. Gear makes a massive difference at all levels. I've been in bis gear since level ~20ish upgrading every 2-4 levels till 49 now doing only pvp ~15k hp for almost all of it. I'm pretty sure its like a full WH hitting a fresh 50.

It didnt matter if they were 10 or 49 they still melted.

 

I'll take my beans when i'm the noob at 50 and by the time i get my gear (BM then WH)i will be competitive if not before.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Spaj

[Vycwulf]

Yes, gear makes a difference. Yes, Battlemaster is quick to get. Yes, the devs took the easy way out to reward players in pvp by using a pvp exclusive stat instead of some small skill boost for pvp experiece. Too bad really, but since it's what they chose we are stuck with it or we don't progress in pvp.

 

Yardstick I always base my opinion of mmorpg pvp on is Dark Age of Camelot. There for pvp experience it was kinda like our valor bar, except it moved waaaaaaay slower. And when you gained a level in it(think it was called Realm Rank) you would get a small skill boost. Nothing game breaking, but worthwhile getting. Think devs got lazy and instead use expertise. They didn't want to possibly make it easier for the pve content probably because those skills could be used in pve as well as pvp.

 

Wall of text story short, the devs chose expertise for their pvp progression. People can cry, scream,gnash their teeth all they want, but I believe it will change nadda. Have a nice day

[looneybinjim]

Let's all take a look at Hold'em Poker.

 

You all sit down with the same opportunity.

 

In PvP it shouldn't matter if life (or no life) has afforded you the opportunity to grind countless hours to get better gear to better stomp a new level 50. Just like the seasoned pro at poker, if you play as much as it seems in PvP, generally you should win anyways as your skills will be better.

 

Hmm. Anyone want to play 2 card Hold'em if I get to play with three cards against your 2 just because "I've played MOAR than you..."

 

Skill should be skill vs skill, NOT gear vs gear...

 

mmo pvp isnt poker. its isnt football, and it isnt a car. dont make stupid analogies.

[kweassa]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

Skill is for those who are prepared to learn.

 

The fresh-50's are literally your "freshman years" in the fraternity of high-end PvP. If you don't have enough patience or perserverence to endure a mere week of grinding for your first BM grade gear that puts you on somewhat competitive ground, then you really don't have enough patience to become "skilled" in the first place.

[kweassa]

Let's all take a look at Hold'em Poker.

 

You all sit down with the same opportunity.

 

In PvP it shouldn't matter if life (or no life) has afforded you the opportunity to grind countless hours to get better gear to better stomp a new level 50. Just like the seasoned pro at poker, if you play as much as it seems in PvP, generally you should win anyways as your skills will be better.

 

Hmm. Anyone want to play 2 card Hold'em if I get to play with three cards against your 2 just because "I've played MOAR than you..."

 

Skill should be skill vs skill, NOT gear vs gear...

 

Let's look at poker.

 

You need your bag of money/chips to participate in the first place. Sure, you may think your so skilled, so you can win any poker game with your 10 bucks... except this table, has a minimum betting of 500 bucks.

 

So go get your 500 bucks first, and then we'll talk about how well skilled you are. Or, you're welcome to join in with 10 bucks. Good luck trying to prove your "skill" when everyone else bets at least 50 bucks per turn.

[Kanana]

mmo pvp isnt poker. its isnt football, and it isnt a car. dont make stupid analogies.

 

And it is not real life. It should not be work.

 

It's a game. You should not have to grind to pvp at all. It's player vs. player, not player vs. time.

 

Requiring a grind before you are on the same level, gear wise, as everyone else, is stupid and just turns people off pvp, hurting pvp in the long term.

[Orangerascal]

Let's all take a look at Hold'em Poker.

 

You all sit down with the same opportunity.

 

In PvP it shouldn't matter if life (or no life) has afforded you the opportunity to grind countless hours to get better gear to better stomp a new level 50. Just like the seasoned pro at poker, if you play as much as it seems in PvP, generally you should win anyways as your skills will be better.

 

Hmm. Anyone want to play 2 card Hold'em if I get to play with three cards against your 2 just because "I've played MOAR than you..."

 

Skill should be skill vs skill, NOT gear vs gear...

 

The RPG part of mmorpg specifies character progression. The gear grind is just alternative to not having lvl 100 characters. It's the genre. If you're character was not progressing you would not be justified in paying $15 a month.

 

The solution is not "Remove the grind" but to place people who are at the same level of 'the grind' and have them fight each other. A ranking system accomplishes this (or gear score).

 

P.S. Poker is a horrible analogy as your gear = your bankroll. The higher your bankroll, the higher tables you can play minimizing the variance swings. Newbies don't have a large bankroll (unless they are gamblers who will just end up losing their money in the long run)

Edited May 31, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Huobes]

The RPG part of mmorpg specifies character progression. The gear grind is just alternative to not having lvl 100 characters. It's the genre. If you're character was not progressing you would not be justified in paying $15 a month.

 

^^Exactly this. I was about to make this point...not sure if it has been made before in this thread as I didn't read 10 pages of it or so. But progression is the bottom line in any RPG game, not just MMO's; it's what incentivizes continued play. The more you play, the more powerful you get. As 50 is the level cap, the only way to continue to gain power after that is to have an upward slope in the quality of gear. Heck, even games that are not RPG's are starting to find ways to reward accumulated success. There's really an RPG element being injected into all games, and it's all pretty much to enhance the replay value. If you got to 50 and that was it, you were as powerful as you were ever going to be, you wouldn't be playing for much longer. You'd just be repeating the same exercise over and over again. For most of us (not the OP, apparently), this takes a huge element of the intrigue out of it.

[romoragan]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

You can faceroll full BM/WH people with recruit gear, you just don't know how.

[joeypesci]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

Exactly. Currently right now, they need to buff recruit gear as it's pretty useless as it is.

[Squidkidz]

Exactly. Currently right now, they need to buff recruit gear as it's pretty useless as it is.

 

No, gotta earn your stripes. Those people facerolling you in warzones spent months pvp'ing to get that gear and before that did their fair time getting facerolled but they stuck with it. If you don't wanna earn your place you don't belong in a warzone anyways.

[UGLYMRJ]

No, gotta earn your stripes. Those people facerolling you in warzones spent months pvp'ing to get that gear and before that did their fair time getting facerolled but they stuck with it. If you don't wanna earn your place you don't belong in a warzone anyways.

 

Well said.... and to anyone who says recruit gear is useless... try playing without it. Yes you will still be out geared, but on multiple characters I can still manage to put up decent numbers with recruit gear and seriously... takes 3 days of hard grinding to get full BM. Problem?

Edited May 31, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Wookubus]

i hit 50 just before they added recruit gear..i got absolutly rolled befre it.... after getting the recruit set i found it did help in the grind to bm gear quite a bit.. i didnt get stomped quite so fast and could help the team other than being cannon fodder...

hang in there, it does get better with each peice of bm gear you aquire... the first week or so will suck but just stick it out.. i know how u feel

[dalevan]

Recruit gear can be tough to PvP in. But you do have to earn your stripes in an MMO. Progression is tough and lots of players have been doing warzones for months acquiring the better gear. So you have to do the work to improve your gear and compete. Even losses now reward you with comms and give you credit towards your daily, so it is even easier to get battlemaster gear. It really isn't as bad as you think. You are probably facing a lot of people with almost full War Hero gear. You shouldn't be able to match evenly with them because they have done the work to get it.

[Hawk-Firestorm]

To be honest I see many points of view here and I do understand them.

 

It basically comes down to this I think Bioware has completely and utterly pushed Post lev 49 gameplay out the window and utterly out of balance to the point that its gone so far out of bounds the original game mechanics just can't deal with it.

 

There are some examples, the 'hazards' in Huttball which are little more than a annoyance post 49 pvp.

 

They've added ever bigger stat increases on gear trying to pander to peoples need to feel like there's somewhere to go because they made the mistake of putting a 'level ceiling' at 50, you put a limit on where people can go or start using phrases like 'end game' then that's usually what happens people reach it and it's the end of the game for them.

 

We've all seen it and I'm pretty sure if you took a vote the majority here would say that 10-49 pvp if far more enjoyable than 50, and indeed FAR more balanced, and the reasons why this is the case are many.

 

Level 50 EVERYTHING goes out the window, any semblence of balance, class rolls you name it Bioware have utterly messed it up.

 

They've introduced so many HUGE variables, massively stated gear, Expertise, you name it they've fluffed it, you simply cannot balance anything, that has such massive swings and troffs, takes no account what so ever into account that there's going to be people with varing ammounts and variations of gear, and then put not 1 but 2 massives variables into the mix, one being expertise, the being the insane stats ammounts involved on high end gear, and for a 3rd wammy remove the equalisation system or any semblence of it as per 10-49.

 

Slap in the negative effects of outside game stuff like teamspeak, that while have big benefits for those that use them also have a big impact on any games deisgn, often pushing that design out of bounds to the point the games gameplay is severely impacted past the point the design of it can cope with.

 

Before people chime out about teamspeak, I must point out I have used TS in previous MMO's I've played, such as eve, and yes there's are obvious benefits to using it, that's a no brainer.

 

But equally as with any out of game stuff it also has a big impact on what happens ingame, you also have to realise there's a negative effect to using out of game stuff, they push elements of a game out of bounds, out of the game designs ability to deal with them, which is why I have very mixed feelings regarding the use of Teamspeak, great social benefits, but more often than not the use of it for pvp stuff especially also has a big negative knock effect of the game itself and the gameplay over a wide scope that more often than not it actually breaks the games design and mechanics often to the point no designer or design can ever compensate for.

 

Then you have the gear, one of the 2 biggest variables here, Big stats big variations, both in what each player has of any particular armour set, and indeed how much of that set he may wear, to the point that now in maps such as huttball harzards are little more than anoyance to many.

 

Then you have expertise, yet another massive variable again both in the potential for ammount variation.

 

Now it's absolutely positively impossible to balance something that has so many huge peaks and pitfalls, something lev 10-49 pvp doesn't have, and the reason it doesn't have them is because 2 of the things I've just stated don't exist, or are extremely limited.

 

So how do you balance 50 PVP? I'm thinking the answer is pretty damn obvious.

 

These massive variables have to go, expertise, and the stats on gear be kept in sensible boundries as is after lev 49 this game is one sick little puppy.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Hawk-Firestorm

[revial]

One day an MMO dev will get it right, and make pvp rewards completely superficial (titles, social armor, etc).

 

GW2 might be the first MMO to get it right.

Edited June 6, 2012 by revial

[Zekester]

To be honest I see many points of view here and I do understand them.

 

It basically comes down to this I think Bioware has completely and utterly pushed Post lev 49 gameplay out the window and utterly out of balance to the point that its gone so far out of bounds the original game mechanics just can't deal with it.

 

There are some examples, the 'hazards' in Huttball which are little more than a annoyance post 49 pvp.

 

They've added ever bigger stat increases on gear trying to pander to peoples need to feel like there's somewhere to go because they made the mistake of putting a 'level ceiling' at 50, you put a limit on where people can go or start using phrases like 'end game' then that's usually what happens people reach it and it's the end of the game for them.

 

We've all seen it and I'm pretty sure if you took a vote the majority here would say that 10-49 pvp if far more enjoyable than 50, and indeed FAR more balanced, and the reasons why this is the case are many.

 

Level 50 EVERYTHING goes out the window, any semblence of balance, class rolls you name it Bioware have utterly messed it up.

 

They've introduced so many HUGE variables, massively stated gear, Expertise, you name it they've fluffed it, you simply cannot balance anything, that has such massive swings and troffs, takes no account what so ever into account that there's going to be people with varing ammounts and variations of gear, and then put not 1 but 2 massives variables into the mix, one being expertise, the being the insane stats ammounts involved on high end gear, and for a 3rd wammy remove the equalisation system or any semblence of it as per 10-49.

 

Slap in the negative effects of outside game stuff like teamspeak, that while have big benefits for those that use them also have a big impact on any games deisgn, often pushing that design out of bounds to the point the games gameplay is severely impacted past the point the design of it can cope with.

 

Before people chime out about teamspeak, I must point out I have used TS in previous MMO's I've played, such as eve, and yes there's are obvious benefits to using it, that's a no brainer.

 

But equally as with any out of game stuff it also has a big impact on what happens ingame, you also have to realise there's a negative effect to using out of game stuff, they push elements of a game out of bounds, out of the game designs ability to deal with them, which is why I have very mixed feelings regarding the use of Teamspeak, great social benefits, but more often than not the use of it for pvp stuff especially also has a big negative knock effect of the game itself and the gameplay over a wide scope that more often than not it actually breaks the games design and mechanics often to the point no designer or design can ever compensate for.

 

Then you have the gear, one of the 2 biggest variables here, Big stats big variations, both in what each player has of any particular armour set, and indeed how much of that set he may wear, to the point that now in maps such as huttball harzards are little more than anoyance to many.

 

Then you have expertise, yet another massive variable again both in the potential for ammount variation.

 

Now it's absolutely positively impossible to balance something that has so many huge peaks and pitfalls, something lev 10-49 pvp doesn't have, and the reason it doesn't have them is because 2 of the things I've just stated don't exist, or are extremely limited.

 

So how do you balance 50 PVP? I'm thinking the answer is pretty damn obvious.

 

These massive variables have to go, expertise, and the stats on gear be kept in sensible boundries as is after lev 49 this game is one sick little puppy.

 

Agreed. Fresh 50 is still under powered as usual. Hell even in my Ballemaster Gunslinger im getting hit for over 5k from War Heroe geared 50s. It's just a massive turn off from Lv.50 PvP.

[fungihoujo]

The difference between full recruit gear and full war hero is not that big. Two people in recruit gear should easily be able to take out a person in full war hero.

 

If you're getting stomped it's probably because you're running into premades with good communication and class balance.

 

You heard it here first... a person in full WH gear is worth two people in full recruit gear- which apparently isn't a big deal.