"The game is not linear single-player" -James Ohlen (flashback Q&A)

[Elhanan]

It is linear, and it's meant to be. Was designed to be. We were even told it was going to be long before the game even launched. Two things about that: 1) People should have known before buying the game, so stop complaining about it, and 2) people should have know before buying the game, so stop saying it isn't.

 

This is non-linear questing.

 

I am not complaining when I do play with lienerity, as I prefer it. Generally, I follow the storyline solo questing experience, and like having a road ahead that is paved.

 

But the game itself is not. On those occasiobns where I choose to leave the Main storyline, I can see additional stories in FP's (also solo), can run Ship Combat instead of Heroic missions elsewhere (or reverse), run Companion quests, etc.

[turjake]

It is linear, and it's meant to be. Was designed to be. We were even told it was going to be long before the game even launched. Two things about that: 1) People should have known before buying the game, so stop complaining about it, and 2) people should have know before buying the game, so stop saying it isn't.

 

This is non-linear questing.

 

That game isnt out yet, so you have no idea if any of their ideas actually mean what you think they mean.

[JeramieCrowe]

That game isnt out yet, so you have no idea if any of their ideas actually mean what you think they mean.

 

Their ideas, what they're describing, is non-linear. I couldn't care less how the game actually turns out because that's not the point.

[Elhanan]

Their ideas, what they're describing, is non-linear. I couldn't care less how the game actually turns out because that's not the point.

 

I love Skyrim, but it is filled with linear play, too (eg; Main quests, Factions, Civil War, etc). And I prefer other storylines myself, esp with those dealing in romance.

[DiabloDoom]

The game is not linear, though the main storyline can be. One may venture off to Fleet for FP's, fly Ship Combat, return to past worlds to run Heroics, etc.

 

But folks will see what they wish to see; tis the nature of bias.

 

"A video game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Each player sees only some of the challenges possible, and the same challenges may be played in a different order. A video game with linear gameplay will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges. Every player sees every challenge and sees them in the same order."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay

[Elhanan]

"A video game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Each player sees only some of the challenges possible, and the same challenges may be played in a different order. A video game with linear gameplay will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges. Every player sees every challenge and sees them in the same order."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay

 

I have yet to see one Warzone or Operation, have not played Huttball, have traveled to different Planets outside of the Main Story, and have done all from the PvE sertting. Another Player with the same Class may choose different builds, paths, Missions, etc., and may see different challeges entirely.

[williambr]

I think, linear or not, breadcrumbing is a horrible thing.

 

I liked mmo's better(sometimes lol) when I was looking for something "north west before the river", it made me actually look around and explore. Following a big dummy arrow to everything does cheapen the feel of non linear gameplay in my opinion.

 

I didn't even notice the two giant capital ships docked in the sky on Corascant. Why would I of course, I was looking for a blip on my radar screen lol

[DiabloDoom]

I have yet to see one Warzone or Operation, have not played Huttball, have traveled to different Planets outside of the Main Story, and have done all from the PvE sertting. Another Player with the same Class may choose different builds, paths, Missions, etc., and may see different challeges entirely.

 

Don't really understand your first sentence. As for the second one, there are plenty of sandbox games where one week you can be a warrior, the next you can choose to be a wizard, Mortal Online for example, also I don't think the word class is appropriate as class is also defined by linear almost as much as stories are the sole definition of linear, the word character or toon would be more fitting to your example. Also seeing different challenges entirely could still be linear subject to the class for example, what it means is that challenges may not be level, class or quest chain specific and you may partake in them indirectly. I really don't think you've grasp the definition of linear properly.

Edited May 29, 2012 by DiabloDoom

[Elhanan]

I think, linear or not, breadcrumbing is a horrible thing.

 

I liked mmo's better(sometimes lol) when I was looking for something "north west before the river", it made me actually look around and explore. Following a big dummy arrow to everything does cheapen the feel of non linear gameplay in my opinion.

 

I didn't even notice the two giant capital ships docked in the sky on Corascant. Why would I of course, I was looking for a blip on my radar screen lol

 

I do not mind the crumbs, though like this example, I can become dependant upon them. Recently, I had to Google for a path to one such blip, as it was surrounded by three 50th lvl PvP villages. And on other occasions, the actual location is above or below me; somethimes not even glowing as is the norm.

 

Generally, I prefer having to ask less, and playing more, so am content with the current method.

[Elhanan]

Don't really understand your first sentence. As for the second one, there are plenty of sandbox games where one week you can be a warrior, the next you can choose to be a wizard, Mortal Online for example, also I don't think the word class is appropriate as class is also defined by linear almost as much as stories are the sole definition of linear, the word character or toon would be more fitting to your example. Also seeing different challenges entirely could still be linear subject to the class for example, what it means is that challenges may not be level, class or quest chain specific and you may partake in them indirectly. I really don't think you've grasp the definition of linear properly.

 

Maybe highlighting the earlier quote will help, as I may approach rhe game a different way each time.

 

"A video game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Each player sees only some of the challenges possible, and the same challenges may be played in a different order. A video game with linear gameplay will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges. Every player sees every challenge and sees them in the same order."

[TheGreatEski]

I find this thread disgusting. It is filled when a variety of fools complaining that the game is linear, when in fact all games are linear.

 

There is only so much you can code into a game. You are going to run out of options eventually, and when that time comes, the feeling of linearity will start. TOR? It does MUCH better then any other MMO currently on the market when it comes to linearity. The only game I can possibly think of that beats it out on that aspect is the upcoming Guild Wars 2 MMO.

 

So cease your nonsense and complain about actual problems. Like PvP balance. Or bugs. Don't waste your time on something that is entirely subjective.

Edited May 29, 2012 by TheGreatEski

[DiabloDoom]

Maybe highlighting the earlier quote will help, as I may approach rhe game a different way each time.

 

"A video game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Each player sees only some of the challenges possible, and the same challenges may be played in a different order. A video game with linear gameplay will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges. Every player sees every challenge and sees them in the same order."

I still don't understand your point at all. Why you would have thought that highlighting would of been more adequate than explaining yourself is above me.

 

Anyway I don't know what you arguing against, that the Wikipedia entry is wrong or that this game is nonlinear?

[DiabloDoom]

I find this thread disgusting. It is filled when a variety of fools complaining that the game is linear, when in fact all games are linear.

 

Judging by the premises of that logic, the whole Universe falls under your definition of "linear".

[Elhanan]

I still don't understand your point at all. Why you would have thought that highlighting would of been more adequate than explaining yourself is above me.

 

Anyway I don't know what you arguing against, that the Wikipedia entry is wrong or that this game is nonlinear?

 

I have chosen not to play WZ's, Operations, or Huttball, though I could next time; same with FP's, Heroic Missions, etc. One playthrough may be different than another. While the storyline may be linear for each class, the gamneplay otself can be varied, and even then, other IG choices may be made to alter conclusions, rewards, etc.

[Limedust]

I find this thread disgusting. It is filled when a variety of fools complaining that the game is linear, when in fact all games are linear.

 

There is only so much you can code into a game. You are going to run out of options eventually, and when that time comes, the feeling of linearity will start. TOR? It does MUCH better then any other MMO currently on the market when it comes to linearity. The only game I can possibly think of that beats it out on that aspect is the upcoming Guild Wars 2 MMO.

 

So cease your nonsense and complain about actual problems. Like PvP balance. Or bugs. Don't waste your time on something that is entirely subjective.

 

If it's subjective, how can one MMO (in your example, TOR) be better than any other game on the market? Perhaps you should cease your nonsense, and stop wasting all of our times.

[DiabloDoom]

I have chosen not to play WZ's, Operations, or Huttball, though I could next time; same with FP's, Heroic Missions, etc. One playthrough may be different than another. While the storyline may be linear for each class, the gamneplay otself can be varied, and even then, other IG choices may be made to alter conclusions, rewards, etc.

 

Just because you have a choice doesn't go to say that those options aren't linear, you may choose not to do that Heroic, but that Heroic will always be the same, kill this, collect that return for reward, whereas a nonlinear game wouldn't even have that Heroic. Even the branched out class story line is more linear than not.

 

So obviously you are arguing that this game is nonlinear, but I still don't think that you've grasped the definition of linear game play. Maybe you should go play a true nonlinear game, I've gave you an example, Mortal Online. Have you ever even played a sandbox or are you just a WOW person?

[utio]

While I couldn't call the game completely linear, it feels linear. You have to go to the planet next on the list to progress your story, but that is kinda the nature of storytelling, it's linear. This is why I prefer sandbox mmos. I could do some levelling on one planet, then go to space, level a bit there, go to a new planet, do a few collections/quests there. Might then go to cantina, have a dance, learn a new language. Then I might go and do some treasure hunting on another planet. Feels more free, more like an open galaxy.

[TheGreatEski]

Judging by the premises of that logic, the whole Universe falls under your definition of "linear".

 

It does. Non-linearity is a lie. The only difference between video games and real life when it comes to linearity is how zig-zaggy the line can be.

 

If it's subjective, how can one MMO (in your example, TOR) be better than any other game on the market? Perhaps you should cease your nonsense, and stop wasting all of our times.

 

You answered yourself. It is better to me because it is subjective. And I will not have you twist my words. I only said that it is better when it comes to creating an illusion of non-linearity. Nothing more.

[Elhanan]

If it's subjective, how can one MMO (in your example, TOR) be better than any other game on the market? Perhaps you should cease your nonsense, and stop wasting all of our times.

 

Because it is subjective? A feeling, or opinion?

 

For instance, I feel that those that continue to post desires for the game, Bioware, and Devs to fail and lose positions should also meet this same fate before the year's end as romantic justice.

 

Objectively, I see 1.3 million Players as a good thing, and believe SWTOR will survive the Haters.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Elhanan

[Lymain]

Maybe highlighting the earlier quote will help, as I may approach rhe game a different way each time.

 

"A video game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Each player sees only some of the challenges possible, and the same challenges may be played in a different order. A video game with linear gameplay will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges. Every player sees every challenge and sees them in the same order."

 

Yeah, that has always been my definition as well. Ever since exploring Balmorra in Beta, just doing quests as I explored along the way, I haven't really understood the "linear" complaints. Perhaps people really just mean "it's a themepark, not a sandbox." To me, there's nothing inherently linear about a themepark, but sandbox games are inherently non-linear.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Lymain

[Elhanan]

Just because you have a choice doesn't go to say that those options aren't linear, you may choose not to do that Heroic, but that Heroic will always be the same, kill this, collect that return for reward, whereas a nonlinear game wouldn't even have that Heroic. Even the branched out class story line is more linear than not.

 

So obviously you are arguing that this game is nonlinear, but I still don't think that you've grasped the definition of linear game play. Maybe you should go play a true nonlinear game, I've gave you an example, Mortal Online. Have you ever even played a sandbox or are you just a WOW person?

 

800+ hrs on Skyrim, but it is also filled with linerar stories and quests.

[Limedust]

Just because you have a choice doesn't go to say that those options aren't linear, you may choose not to do that Heroic, but that Heroic will always be the same, kill this, collect that return for reward, whereas a nonlinear game wouldn't even have that Heroic. Even the branched out class story line is more linear than not.

 

So obviously you are arguing that this game is nonlinear, but I still don't think that you've grasped the definition of linear game play. Maybe you should go play a true nonlinear game, I've gave you an example, Mortal Online. Have you ever even played a sandbox or are you just a WOW person?

 

Yes. All paths and outcomes are the same. When one goes "off the beaten path" to space, or performs any of the several tasks this games provides, the path, no matter when one chooses to do it, does not change just as the outcomes remain similarly static. Every class experiences precisely the same story, in the same order.

 

In a broader sense, one may not even quest on the planets without following a narrow, even singular path to get from one place to another. There is no exploration; instead one is forced through a tunnel even out in the world. Warzones even only have two possible outcomes and neither has any significant difference in consequence.

[DiabloDoom]

It does. Non-linearity is a lie. The only difference between video games and real life when it comes to linearity is how zig-zaggy the line can be.

 

 

 

A line can't be a zig-zag, a zig-zag is multiple lines. Now apply these discrepancies to the concept of linear gameplay.

[Elhanan]

Yes. All paths and outcomes are the same. When one goes "off the beaten path" to space, or performs any of the several tasks this games provides, the path, no matter when one chooses to do it, does not change just as the outcomes remain similarly static. Every class experiences precisely the same story, in the same order.

 

In a broader sense, one may not even quest on the planets without following a narrow, even singular path to get from one place to another. There is no exploration; instead one is forced through a tunnel even out in the world. Warzones even only have two possible outcomes and neither has any significant difference in consequence.

 

This is false. One may choose to kill one boss, and another may choose to banish him. One may choose varied plots, DS/ LS replies, Companions, etc.

[Bluerodian]

800+ hrs on Skyrim, but it is also filled with linerar stories and quests.

 

Unless you say screw it to the quests and kill everything you see. Done that before in one of my gameplays and my unending reign of terror.

 

Interestingly enough, that's certainly a viable gameplay style in Skyrim.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Bluerodian