Esproc Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 It's not a question of like or dislike. When a feature fails at its intended purpose, it is garbage. The mainstream industry has evolved past "flagging" for a group and refreshing your /who window every 20 seconds, and don't even pretend that this game wasn't intended to be mainstream. That means during the game's peak population at peak hours only 15 people total, all looking for different things even bothered to use it. This is also assuming that people could understand your wacky acronym note due to 20 char limit (broken feature). Hence the tool failed at its intended purpose. So yeah, right, you didn't use the tool that was included and available because, what, it wasn't a one button instantly formed group. You actually had to flag yourself with a description of what you wanted to do for content and perhaps go so far as to search for others who also wanted to do the content as well? It was provided, it was not used by some people, whose fault was that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Yes. It does. That is the very definition of vaporware. If they were serious about mega servers they would have launched with them. They're just throwing around damage control PR. If that's how you choose to view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Name one game that is out right now or has been released in the past ywo years that came with these so called industry standards. Also, make sure it's still active with a subscription base and not free to play please. Name one of those games that havent added the features that swtor is missing that is thriving right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I tend to believe it was there and that Legacy broke it. I recall (though I'm too lazy to search for) a BioWare statement saying exactly that. Plus this is one of the ultra-rare things I agree with skidrow on, so it must be troof. Yet another example of the horribly broken development process at the core of this game and team. I remember bioware saying atleast on 4 different occasions in the last 4 or 5 months some version of "server merges are not a priority at this time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I like parts of the game. Those particular parts have nothing to do with MMOs specifically, which is the area where this game falls flat. In your opinion. Because populated servers are proving otherwise. Just look at the posts in this thread. Look, I don't blame you one bit for your low morale. I take it you're on a server that's less than populated? I don't blame you for feeling this way, I really don't. Those people in that thread that are starting to feel more positive once posted just like you do now. Transfers will do more good for this game than people realize, because low-pops have a much more far-reaching effect than just not being able to get a group. It affects a person't very viewpoint and perspective of the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If you choose not to believe facts when they're given to you just because it doesn't fit into your doomsaying and pessimism, then nothing anyone tells you, even if you took a census yourself, will not sway you because of your choice. I, however, choose to remain realistic. Enjoy your Chicken Littling. And your McCarthyism. "Doomsaying" Such a buzzword.... Layoffs Server Merges 50% loss in subscribers since launch...and dropping. No one is "doomsaying" people are observing with a clear head. Anyone who thinks this game is doing good is not paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I remember bioware saying atleast on 4 different occasions in the last 4 or 5 months some version of "server merges are not a priority at this time" Yeah, that was rather short-sighted, wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) So yeah, right, you didn't use the tool that was included and available because, what, it wasn't a one button instantly formed group. You actually had to flag yourself with a description of what you wanted to do for content and perhaps go so far as to search for others who also wanted to do the content as well? It was provided, it was not used by some people, whose fault was that. I used the tool. Don't try to pin it on me. You're just being obstinate because you apparently can't see how the problems with the tool are a result of bad design. You think Apple actually sells superior products? They don't. They sell the exact same hardware you can get at half price from Samsung. They sell a pretty design people flock to. That's industrial design. The same thing applies to systems engineers and designers. If it's not intuitive, doesn't grab your attention, or is just plain broken (char limit again), it's obsolete out of the box. Edited May 30, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 "Doomsaying" Such a buzzword.... Layoffs - happens everywhere. Blizzard just laid off 600. Server Merges - happens everywhere. The only games that didn't have to had a horrible launch. 50% loss in subscribers since launch...and dropping. - Source? You said subs, so don't include box sales. Every game has many box sales that are never included in sub numbers. /5char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 "Doomsaying" Such a buzzword.... Layoffs Server Merges 50% loss in subscribers since launch...and dropping. No one is "doomsaying" people are observing with a clear head. Anyone who thinks this game is doing good is not paying attention. To be fair, if you play on one of the 4 servers that actually still have a population, things probably seem hunky dory. I haven't logged into the game in over 2 weeks, and I still have 3 weeks left of my free 30 days. Days go by with no WZ queue popping, and when they do pop its 6v4 and absolutely not fun. No one runs OPs because the content is so easy to clear no one wants to run it ad nauseum only to get gear that isn't really an upgrade and also looks like a cow's behind. The funny things is, unless BWs plans have changed, PvP is going to be X-Server, which to me seems like they would want to keep that server based too if they're so big on community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The funny things is, unless BWs plans have changed, PvP is going to be X-Server, which to me seems like they would want to keep that server based too if they're so big on community. There's a lot less at risk in a PvP zone than a HM or Op zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 /5char Really? So they didnt sell 2.6 million units? Thats subscribers as well. If the 30 free days that Bioware just gave away are considered subscribers so are the original 30 days with the retail purchase. The layoffs area a result of results thus far as well as speculation for the future. Server merges are common for a game 6 months out? Get real. You are EVERYWHERE on this forum defending every aspect of this game. When you so blindly defend a game that has so many well know issues your credibility gets tanked, which is what has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Really? So they didnt sell 2.6 million units? Thats subscribers as well. If the 30 free days that Bioware just gave away are considered subscribers so are the original 30 days with the retail purchase. The layoffs area a result of results thus far as well as speculation for the future. Server merges are common for a game 6 months out? Get real. You are EVERYWHERE on this forum defending every aspect of this game. When you so blindly defend a game that has so many well know issues your credibility gets tanked, which is what has happened. Then if you count it that way for TOR, then you must count it that way for every other game. Which means that TOR is still in the nominal launch surge/dropoff curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) In your opinion. Because populated servers are proving otherwise. Just look at the posts in this thread. Look, I don't blame you one bit for your low morale. I take it you're on a server that's less than populated? I don't blame you for feeling this way, I really don't. Those people in that thread that are starting to feel more positive once posted just like you do now. Transfers will do more good for this game than people realize, because low-pops have a much more far-reaching effect than just not being able to get a group. It affects a person't very viewpoint and perspective of the entire game. Unlike some people, I can look past the low server population. I'm unsubbing and I'll give it another go when they finally get transfers in, I'm just unwilling to reroll. However, when I was running flashpoints and ops every night, it was crystal clear that those parts of the game were far inferior to the class stories. There isn't a single flashpoint in this game in which I could name every boss encounter by name, because they're that bloody unmemorable. The flashpoints exist in a vacuum that has no place in the world BioWare created because none of the bosses (except for 2) make any appearances outside of the flashpoints. They also only come in more or less three flavors (there are exceptions): generic soldiers, sith/jedi #4965, big assault droid, and look like the trash that comes before. You have no rapport with any of these bosses prior to fighting them. Many flashpoints have way too much trash. There is no villain for players to struggle against as a community (important in a theme park - Lich King, Deathwing, etc). This makes people lose focus because there is no goal after you hit 50 other than grinding gear. Why am I grinding gear? The purpose should be clear: because this vastly evil dude is hitting us on all fronts and is coming down on you to end you, so gear up scrub. This villain's influence should be felt almost everywhere at cap. Every class has their own little villain to hunt until they hit 50, then people unsub or reroll for that reason. All the encounters need more complexity (enough with the hard enrage mechanic). They are just mindnumbingly tedious. Cleared every single hard mode on my first try as a tank with no wipes, and very little effort. The rakghoul flashpoints are harder, but nobody wants to do those now. PVP? It could be the solution to the second paragraph, but instead it is a meaningless sideshow - but they made a PVE game. I get that. I could go on. Edited May 30, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 So yeah, right, you didn't use the tool that was included and available because, what, it wasn't a one button instantly formed group. You actually had to flag yourself with a description of what you wanted to do for content and perhaps go so far as to search for others who also wanted to do the content as well? It was provided, it was not used by some people, whose fault was that. Customers did not like it, they did not use it, it is 110% biowares fault. what world do you people live in where its the customers fault that a company uses an old outdated feature that the majority of people dont like or use? Thats not even considering that bioware could have just looked at almost any other mmo and see that players do not like those old lfg tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Then if you count it that way for TOR, then you must count it that way for every other game. Which means that TOR is still in the nominal launch surge/dropoff curve. Do you really think people buy this spin? No offense but thats just silly. You will defend this game regardless the topic. You have proven that many times in many threads. Its a waste of time to try and engage you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 There's a lot less at risk in a PvP zone than a HM or Op zone. What risk? People can grief a WZ as easily as a HM or Op. And as far as communities go, PvP'ers are a tight knit bunch. X-Server would definitely ruin that, so if community is what is important, then shouldn't PvP be same server only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restepor Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Why don't they give you two options. LFG (same server only) and LFG (Xserver). Why they have to settle for one or the other is beyond me. More options>less options My thoughts exactly. If you don't want to use it don't, but if you want too it's there to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Do you really think people buy this spin? No offense but thats just silly. You will defend this game regardless the topic. You have proven that many times in many threads. Its a waste of time to try and engage you. Fine. Don't take my word for it. Here, read this. 8.6 million WoW boxes sold in the US, of which only 4.5 million are subscribers. Do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellour Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 When Developers become this out of touch, it's no wonder the game is floundering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 When Developers become this out of touch, it's no wonder the game is floundering. Yes, this is the head scratcher. Where is the continued disconnect between developer and the reality in their game. This isnt the first developer and game that has gone down this road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Yes, this is the head scratcher. Where is the continued disconnect between developer and the reality in their game. This isnt the first developer and game that has gone down this road. At this rate it won't be the last either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Unlike some people, I can look past the low server population. I'm unsubbing and I'll give it another go when they finally get transfers in, I'm just unwilling to reroll. However, when I was running flashpoints and ops every night, it was crystal clear that those parts of the game were far inferior to the class stories. There isn't a single flashpoint in this game in which I could name every boss encounter by name, because they're that bloody unmemorable. The flashpoints exist in a vacuum that has no place in the world BioWare created because none of the bosses (except for 2) make any appearances outside of the flashpoints. They also only come in more or less three flavors (there are exceptions) generic soldiers, sith/jedi #4965, big assault droid. You have no rapport with any of these bosses prior to fighting them. There is no villain for players to struggle against as a community (important in a theme park - Lich King, Deathwing, etc). This makes people lose focus because there is no goal after you hit 50 other than grinding gear. Why am I grinding gear? The purpose should be clear: because this vastly evil dude is hitting us on all fronts and is coming down on you to end you, so gear up scrub. This villain's influence should be felt almost everywhere at cap. Every class has their own little villain to hunt until they hit 50, then people unsub or reroll for that reason. PVP? It could be the solution to the second paragraph, but instead it is a meaningless sideshow - but they made a PVE game. I get that. I could go on. I agree with this completely. The sense of purpose gets lost as soon as you hit 50 and finish your class story-- you drift along in a meaningless path which the end game is. For a company that boasts of story-telling, SWTOR seriously lacks cohesive end game story line. Lack of synergy between class stories is also a massive issue with me. Having played the bounty hunter and Sith Inquistor story lines, I almost feel like I am existing in 2 parrallel SWTOR universe. There are no convergence of story lines. Why am I grouping with this Bounty hunter for this flash point? Beisdes Black Talon, none of the FP really fit into the game - they exist like individual entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talarchy Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 And look what happened to the people playing World Of Warcraft when the LFG cross server was implemented. Instead of actual decent players, they became wordless, mindless idiots who cared for nothing but themselves. People who would need on loot they didnt actually need just to sell, or leave a group if a boss they fought didnt drop the loot they wanted, even when it was only the first boss. Why should they care about other people? It is not like they would ever see them again, and even if they did, they can just leave the group and LFG using the tool again. Yes THAT is what you are promoting, the lack of moral fortitude, or willingness to be patient. So I vow here and now, the day cross server LFG is added, I am GONE!!!!! That happens without the X-server LFG tool, it wouldn't really make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidrowbro Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 How about Bioware makes two different server types. An MMORPG server for those who want to play an RPG style MMO without X-Server and then an MMO server which will feature just X-Server among the servers that are joined with it. They can also remove all the world content and have everyone start at level 10 on the fleet and they can just hit their magic FP/Ops/WZ button all day long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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