Jedi Guardians are Garbage @ 50 PvP compared to other classes.

[Jetflair]

I gained some better gear sence this post, I how have BM gear with a WH weapon, things seem a bit better but I still feel lackluster compared to my other tank-y classes, also damage isn't my play style I like to tank damage but at the same time be able to kill someone 1v1 if it comes down to it, IMO raw damage as a Jedi guardian just don't cut it because like I stated they just can live though the lock down that other classes put Jedi Guardian though before they can even pull off some hits.

 

As I gear up I feel a small change in pvp strength, Jedi Guardians are almost there just some minor tweeks.

I still feel that they need a combat heal when CCed and as other poster post a spell reflect of some sort like the WoW warriors have would go along way in countering the lock down process that all Jedi Guardians face and would help bring the tank-y class in line with each other in pvp.

 

Shadows have there vanish & stealth

Vanguards have there ranged & control

Jedi Guardians can have there CC heal & spell reflect

 

This would bring the tank-y pvp classes in line with each other in terms of combat effectiveness.

 

To be honest I'm torn between Trooper and my Guardian. I'd like to tank with my guardian in pve more than with my Vanguard. However I like pvp too. So I tank with vanguard and do dps with my Guardian.

 

Reason is that I don't see synergy with Guardian trees what comes to pvp and tanking. Vanguard is pretty awesome way the trees can be combined. Your points even get you +2% damage migatation from tactics tree to tank. With Vigilance only similar or actually better is not reachable by JK tank since its so high in tree. Vanguard can also do big chunk of its damage from range. Ion cell with all talents taken from Shield and Tacticts tree is quite effective if you combine them to relics. You can kill from range quite well with them.

 

There is no similar synergy again with JK tank tree.

 

And yes I agree with OP that Jedi Guardian has to do awfully lot to kill someone. All my relevant abilites I get under my left hand with trooper. With JK I get +4 more I need to use and have to use mouse.

 

Not however saying Guardian wouldn't be pretty awesome. I am just having some doubts are they most effective choice for pvp.

[durhame]

i started to play a sent.. it completely destroys guards a lvl 10. i have a lvl 76 focus guard. he is very very very squishy. i play him as a true dps class and dont jump in the middle of everything. 1 on 1 is kind of easy to kill folks. get 2 and i'm owned. shadow and sent. well, lets just say i've seen some as much as 5 people trying to take them down and it is just nuts. and just when the shadow is about to go down, he stealths away.. such bull ****...

 

IMHO.. all incombat stealth and all stuns should go away in pvp.. or make them like 2 seconds. it really just sucks when your standing there perma stunned.. resolve bar is full white for 5 seconds and no break at all. you just die.

 

i played focus before and after 1.2. give me my 9 second sweep back please.

[Tonyyjt]

now that reminds me, how do we identify a stealther when you know they are there?

 

I mean the other day this shadow stealthed away at low health, where i immediately force sweeped. And he remained stealthed? I thought the aoe would do it, but i was proven wrong.

 

I would think that classes that don't have stealth ability gets at least one ability to identify stealth

[Lady_Alyria]

now that reminds me, how do we identify a stealther when you know they are there?

 

I mean the other day this shadow stealthed away at low health, where i immediately force sweeped. And he remained stealthed? I thought the aoe would do it, but i was proven wrong.

 

I would think that classes that don't have stealth ability gets at least one ability to identify stealth

 

AOEs work to knock people out of stealth, he must have already run out of range before it went off.

[durhame]

it should be that if they stealther goes below 50% health, then he cannot stealth away in pvp. it is utterly insane and OP that they can just run off whenever they want. ... well, i'm dieing so i'll just leave...... to include, that op thing they do when they cc you and you just stand there shaking your head.. and no resolve is built. and you break it and they do it again,, even in stealth so you never see the guy, you just stand there frozen

[Tonyyjt]

AOEs work to knock people out of stealth, he must have already run out of range before it went off.

 

More like, must've been stealth + run + lag, ahahas. I was very immediate even i didn't know his stealth was followed by my force sweep. Then again, force sweeps aoe range is so bad, it s like it works only on people 1 toon space beside you.

 

Its just that they are obviously next to you and you can't do anything about it because we have to lock on to stealther to even simply swing that stick, which we can't because they are stealthed :/

 

Seriously, sometimes I wish a class (preferably guardians hahas, ...but more likely goes to sentinel given the name) have an x-ray or infrared ability XD Preferably passive, but even if its only for a few seconds I would be content.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Tonyyjt

[Lady_Alyria]

More like, must've been stealth + run + lag, ahahas. I was very immediate even i didn't know his stealth was followed by my force sweep. Then again, force sweeps aoe range is so bad, it s like it works only on people 1 toon space beside you.

 

Its just that they are obviously next to you and you can't do anything about it because we have to lock on to stealther to even simply swing that stick, which we can't because they are stealthed :/

 

Seriously, sometimes I wish a class (preferably guardians hahas, ...but more likely goes to sentinel given the name) have an x-ray or infrared ability XD Preferably passive, but even if its only for a few seconds I would be content.

 

Well they do have force speed so yeah, it's quite possible they got away on time. For me I hit evade right before I go invis so if their is an AOE it might miss me and not knock me out of stealth. For me it's evade, cloak, run like a madman in an unlikely direction.

[Darkshadz]

If you make a shadow run away, you're doing your job. PVP is not only about killing people, guys.

[Nijraw]

If you make a shadow run away, you're doing your job. PVP is not only about killing people, guys.

Here is what I love to do with my Shadow, I'll vanish mid combat then mez (sap) them and out of combat heal right in front of the enemy......yes this works I do it all the time, so making a Shadow run is a bad idea, you want to keep the pressure on them or they will reset the fight and own you.

[Darkshadz]

Here is what I love to do with my Shadow, I'll vanish mid combat then mez (sap) them and out of combat heal right in front of the enemy......yes this works I do it all the time, so making a Shadow run is a bad idea, you want to keep the pressure on them or they will reset the fight and own you.

 

That trick doesn't work all the time....

[Roiz]

Here is what I love to do with my Shadow, I'll vanish mid combat then mez (sap) them and out of combat heal right in front of the enemy......yes this works I do it all the time, so making a Shadow run is a bad idea, you want to keep the pressure on them or they will reset the fight and own you.

 

Actually it is smart trick, so every time i fight a shadow as guardian i always keep stun breaker for that sap.

[Tonyyjt]

Two stealthers can take turns stunning you from no where, and before your team mates arrive, they already planted the bomb or taken control of the turret.

 

That happened to me, ...except it was three stealthers.

 

What are we meant to do to counter this situation?

 

I'd hate to accept that we as Guardians can't even properly guard anything ;(

[EzoEo]

Two stealthers can take turns stunning you from no where, and before your team mates arrive, they already planted the bomb or taken control of the turret.

 

That happened to me, ...except it was three stealthers.

 

What are we meant to do to counter this situation?

 

I'd hate to accept that we as Guardians can't even properly guard anything ;(

 

You ask people to play as a team or L2P because leaving a single person to guard a turret is pointless.

 

If that's the case on your server they all need PvP lessons

[Lady_Alyria]

Two stealthers can take turns stunning you from no where, and before your team mates arrive, they already planted the bomb or taken control of the turret.

 

That happened to me, ...except it was three stealthers.

 

What are we meant to do to counter this situation?

 

I'd hate to accept that we as Guardians can't even properly guard anything ;(

 

Well with all the time standing there unable to do anything you have plenty of time to type, RIGHT! RIGHT! or SNOW! SNOW! If you are guarding a node alone then your main job is pretty much to warn everyone else, you aren't expected to solo multiple people.

[Bridoscot]

Two stealthers can take turns stunning you from no where, and before your team mates arrive, they already planted the bomb or taken control of the turret.

 

That happened to me, ...except it was three stealthers.

 

What are we meant to do to counter this situation?

 

I'd hate to accept that we as Guardians can't even properly guard anything ;(

 

Yea gotta say this post really does nothing for any argument at all as frankly no class should be holding a turret or anything for that matter against 3 people, fair enough possibly 'holding out for re-enforcements' against two but just think how OP it would be to have a class capable to keep three other people at bay?

 

Generally regarding the guard in PVP I can't say I've many complaints, however I'm not looking for DPS when I play and my set up (nearly full def) reflects this. For me a guards job is to be a giant pain in the *** for the other team, throwing out taunts, slows, force pushes at the other team and generally slowing their progress until they decide to throw multiple people at you to burn you down. That for me is our job in PVP and I've gotta say even as a new 50 with only 2 pieces of BM gear I can accomplish this perfectly well and there is nothing more satisfying if I die and zoom out slightly to see 6 imps were involved, that is a job well done for me as the time those 6 guys spent burning me down was time we had to plant a bomb/cap a node w/e.

[Tonyyjt]

Just to correct your assumption, actually that post wasn't meant to do any arguing for anyone. But really to ask for a counter in a scenario for guardians, since people are talking about stealth.

 

So... other than calling, there is nothing we can do ... huh. I know to call, but at least be able to hold long enough for team mates to arrive was expected, instead of being stunned.

 

Guardians are not rubbish, I feel that I'm useful in most my games.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Tonyyjt

[EzoEo]

Just to correct your assumption, actually that post wasn't meant to do any arguing for anyone. But really to ask for a counter in a scenario for guardians, since people are talking about stealth.

 

So... other than calling, there is nothing we can do ... huh. I know to call, but at least be able to hold long enough for team mates to arrive was expected, instead of being stunned.

 

Guardians are not rubbish, I feel that I'm useful in most my games.

 

Class wouldn't matter in that situation. It's a failure of game design that anyone can be chain stunned.

 

If I am alone on a turrent and see incoming I will call and wait for them. If they get to me I'll switch to Sorencu and use Awe to give myself some time and Force Push some one to give the team time to get here

[Darkshadz]

I seriously don't know what the hell is BW waiting for to make any mez/stun fill the whole resolve bar.

[Veeius]

I

Thing is, I can say "My Guardian at 50 has as much utility or more as any other class in a warzone ... I can Guard a player (and win medals), I can hold a node (and win objective points and medals), I can dish solid dps and not be a glass cannon, I can taunt and reduce enemy players' effectiveness on my team" ... and so on.

 

I'm not wrong either.

 

You really are. Guardians are one of the worst classes to try to solo hold a node. Get a tankasin. Stealth, spamable cc, and when you finally are forced to come out of stealth, VASTLY VASTLY more durable than a guardian.

 

In fact, unless you're defense spec'd, your durability is nearly at the bottom of the barrel.

 

Not to mention that, per freaking usual, "the next patch" scares the heck out of me. I play rage (focus), so I know EXACTLY when I'm going to hit hard, and outside that point, I don't hit very hard at all. Fixing it so that I can't adrenal+relic big smashes with NO other changes is going to cut the legs out of rage (focus).

 

Edited to reply to:

If I am alone on a turrent and see incoming I will call and wait for them. If they get to me I'll switch to Sorencu and use Awe to give myself some time and Force Push some one to give the team time to get here

 

If you're solo guarding a node and you're not already in soresu, you're doing it wrong. A huge chuck of time your first clue that someone is coming after your node (assuming they aren't idiots and run over a power up on their way to you) is you're face down and getting hammered. You'll come out of your stun at about 30% health (if you're lucky), THEN go to soresu? No, don't do that.

 

Again, though, better to get a tankasin guard the node instead of you. Then THEY are the ones who get the opening shot (after about 15 seconds of cc'ing the person who's trying to tap the node).

Edited June 10, 2012 by Veeius
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