Suggested Pyro Merc Changes. [Not a buff/nerf post]

[Rizah]

Here's some back story:

I have been playing pyro since beta, early access and so on. I am a very casual to moderately hardcore player. One week I'll be on all day every day, the next week I'll only play a couple hours every other day. I'm nearly full BM and missing like 2 Rakata pieces. I PVP and PVE as Pyro. Not once have I shot a tracer missle, I don't know what that is like, exciting I bet. Back at launch people would "LOL" in my face for playing Pyro, making claims it will never out DPS Arsenal in PvE.Now Pyro Mercs are everywhere and people rave that they are the "only viable merc spec in pvp". You see the idea of Pyro Merc is MY playstyle, everything about the class and spec is what I've always wanted in an MMO. As the game grew and the more I played, the better I got and from Beta up til now I have noticed a change in the way I play my class and have made changes to my spec and rotation to accomidate. I perfected my rotation early on and became a calculated pyro machine. In long Boss fights, I would Vent heat maybe twice, never hit enrage timers and was proud. I got a lot of props from guildies and pugs in both pvp and pve. Then there was a major set back that has made me rethink my spec and rotation.

 

As of 1.2 I agree that SOME changes need to be made.

 

Although I don't really care for being on the level of PTs in pvp. Different classes should stay different classes. Both ACs Pyro tree revolve around 2 things, keeping CGC on an enemy and proccing RS. People say "PTs benefit more from that tree than Mercs do and that is a known FACT!" ...ok maybe ya sure whatever, I'm over it. That's maybe because those are the things PTs NEED to keep it in line, that's a PTs utility. Let them have it. I'm okay with that.

 

With the change to pwr shot I noticed I am using Missle Blast a LOT more, and I LOVE it. Its an easy 1.5k-2.5k dmg I can do on the run. The heat could be reduced a bit, but it allows me to stay mobile and idle venting takes care of it especially on the run/kiting. It's more useful than Pwr Shot its 2sec cast. I ditched Muzzle Fluting cause its pointless now. Here are the ONLY 2 changes I feel are necessary to keep my interest. Specifically for the Pyro tree, put these changes in skill point form or passive -don't care.

 

1. Missle Blast procs a Free Rail Shot (Don't care if it's on a % or not.) - Keep the heat cost at 25 to prevent spamming of MB-RS-MB-RS.....-but it puts Missle Blast in an important role of the Pyro Rotation. Don't have to change the damage its good where it's at, but we need to benefit more from its use instead of 1.5k dmg (less than 900dmg sometimes against high expertise and tanky classes) and being over heated. After 2-3 MBs you've got to waste your Vent Heat now you're stuck spammin RS hoping Unload procs RS for some free heat. (Avoiding pwr shot all together).

 

AND/OR

 

2. Power Shot is instant cast with a reasonable cooldown (not necessary to have a CD greater than 8secs). -The Damage from a 1.5 or 2sec (If spec'd into Muzzle Fluting or not) Power Shot is currently laughable. Ya I was liking the 1.5 sec, 8heat cost, practically spamming 3k crits pre 1.2 Pwr shot and I DID feel like it was a bit much but the change to that was also too much. S**T, bring it back to 1.5 secs keep its heat up and give it back its RS proc %. Make it useful again.

 

Bonus suggestion: Revert CGC/PPA back to pre 1.2- None of that "Every 6 seconds" nonsense. Sweltering Heat (that's the 2sec slow on CGC) also needs to be longer if we can't reapply unless RS hits them while already slowed, 2secs of slow means NOTHING when trying to kite a rabid Marauder foaming at the mouth chasing you down, who can spam his slowing effect on you once he gets in range while you waste heat trying to cure his bleeds, and burn all your CDs trying to mitigate/get away. Same for a Vanguard/PT who can spam their CGC/slow on you while you try and build distance, even if you do every other class has a gap closer (not talking to you Agents) and then you're right back at it again. I've come away from 1v1s with Marauders, Assassins and PTs it is't easy and it takes every CD and a Medpac to do so, but it happens. I will say I win 50% of 1v1s. In PVE: That one unlucky moment when you set off DFA too soon and you've got a stray elite add headed your way and the tank used up his/her taunts and you're trying to "Kite For Life"... 2 seconds of slow isn't going to keep that mob away in time for the tank to peel it off or the healer to heal you.

 

Now in TEAM PLAY (PvP), ya I'm Immortal if:

A. No one is focusing the DPS turret mowing down your Snipers/Healers.

B. I've got a Guard on me while in the act of option "A".

C. I've got legit ninja heals from my Operative homie.

D. All Of The Above.

 

Same goes for every ranged class, I stay out of the fray and high up, Knockback anyone charging up to me, and I LoS PTs/Sins cause I don't wanna get pulled down. Simple tactics.

 

I don't care about the underpowered/overpowered debate. These are suggestions from a veteran pyro merc, who does fine in PVP and PVE. I've been OKAY with the Utility of my class and have worked around its flaws and weaknesses, I consider myself a very good Merc and still enjoy every element of this game.

 

I post this to encourage the Devs NOT to buff/nerf ANYONE, but polish EVERYONE.

Peace.

PS. Previous Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZcGMrzGhrs.1

Current Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300MZMcoZcGrrzGGMs.1

Not a huge difference. Trying more Venting for PvP rotation than Automated Defenses which is ideal for PvE rotation. I am changing it constantly.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Rizah
Both Links went to same spec.

[TyrellJonez]

I like the idea of making Missle Blast useful. However i'd rather it procced a free non-channeled Flamethrower instead. Whats the point of being pyro if the ICONIC ability of being pyro never gets used? BET money that if it did, melee classes would either back off us or risk being burned alive pretty damn quick.

[Swaggz]

I completely agree with reverting CGC/PPA back to pre 1.2. That 6s CD seems a bit overkill. If they have to keep a CD on it put it at 3s, maybe 4.5s tops. Also like the Missile Blast idea as well. I'd like to see more done with it though. Drop the heat on it to 16, up the damage to somewhere between TM and a non Heat Sig buffed HSM and add a bleed and/or slow effect to it (an non-cleansable bleed/slow at that) and add a small CD if they must. That could be something both Arsenal and Pyro mercs could use.

 

Would like to see that extra 5s on Jet Blast reverted but that might be asking too much...

[Sinsavz]

Really really shouldn't be using missile blast AT ALL in pvp, it is absolutely terrible. Therefore I do agree that it would be nice for missile blast to have some kind of buff/integration into our skill tree...it's just odd to me that you think it's good.

 

Also odd that you think powershot is bad, and don't take muzzle fluting ~.~. Okay it's not brilliant, but we need power shot for sustained nuking and constant procs (unload is 15 sec, can't be relied on continuously.). The damage is not bad, I can still do 2-3k if the hits crit/don't miss.

 

I would rather stab my eyes out than play a current merc with no muzzle fluting/stabilizers and using missile blast.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Sinsavz

[fujeo-finel]

What's wrong with Merc/Pyro?

[Rizah]

@Sinsavz

 

Missble Blast is VERY useful in more ways than you think, especially when on the run. I don't use it in PvE, not in Operations or FPs (at least not as much). I get a much greater dmg output than trying to sit and spam a 1.5k dmg powershot (not the same dmg every time, it can vary depending on who is targeted), even with the proc chance of RS, pwr shot slows me down, when I could just throw out a couple MBs and then Vent right away or spam rapid shots to fill while idle venting to either save my vent heat or if its on CD already. The spec I am trying now is working out good so far. Love the extra heat dump when venting, especially since the change to Vent in 1.2 as well.

 

The new pwr shot does not work for me in PvP so I tried something else, and when I put it together in my head, I'm getting more dmg output from 3-4 MBs in my rotation than 1 or maybe (harsh MAYBE) 2 Power shots. Yes I'm burning more heat with those MBs but like I said, the extra vent dump is a game changer. Plus you limit the oppoents chances to interrupt you when they close in unless you need another unload to proc RS. Proccing RS is necessary, but you shouldn't sacrifice time and dmg for it, which is why I would like to see MB grant a RS proc.

[clearsighted]

I'm a merc pyro, and I think I've used power shot once in pvp. It is nothing like the constant rocket punching and flame bursting that pyrotechs do.

[T-Assassin]

2 things i've notices in this thread...

 

missle blast sucks compared to rapid shots (simple damage : heat math), and the force cost is way to high to even consider using unless your finishing off an opponent.

 

and..

 

if you're not using power shot, u really need to be more wily. power shot is pretty darn valuable.

[ThePesh]

2 things i've notices in this thread...

 

missle blast sucks compared to rapid shots (simple damage : heat math), and the force cost is way to high to even consider using unless your finishing off an opponent.

 

and..

 

if you're not using power shot, u really need to be more wily. power shot is pretty darn valuable.

 

In my experience I find that the fights that I most need PS to proc PPA are the fights where it is least advisable to stand and cast it, and when I do it gets interrupted ofc. A trade off I suppose but I think it's a bit harsh.

 

I do agree that MB is quite bad but I can understand why some use it as constant Rapid Shots gets a bit dull.

 

Personally a change I would make is to System Calibrations; sack the alacrity and instead it should give Missile Blast a 50/100% chance to make the next Power Shot instant. This helps Pyros proc PPA on the move and gives Missile Blast some utility to all mercs if they want it, lessening the sting of the high heat cost.

[Briggs_Knightly]

Personally a change I would make is to System Calibrations; sack the alacrity and instead it should give Missile Blast a 50/100% chance to make the next Power Shot instant.

 

Nothing personal here, Many Pyros comment on changing alacrity.

 

Remember to take all trees into account when making recommendations... I would actually say take all seven into account (3 full tree specs with 10 optional, 3 of the 2 tree hybrids, and the all 3 tree hybrid). The 1st tier and even the second tier has to have some utility across all trees. Alacrity is there more for Guard and Arsen than for us. Just as crit option is there for us in guard and aim/missle damage in Arsen.

 

I have many recommendations but am currently trying to evaluate the whole picture and figure out the best way to present them.

[T-Assassin]

In my experience I find that the fights that I most need PS to proc PPA are the fights where it is least advisable to stand and cast it, and when I do it gets interrupted ofc. A trade off I suppose but I think it's a bit harsh.

 

I do agree that MB is quite bad but I can understand why some use it as constant Rapid Shots gets a bit dull.

 

Personally a change I would make is to System Calibrations; sack the alacrity and instead it should give Missile Blast a 50/100% chance to make the next Power Shot instant. This helps Pyros proc PPA on the move and gives Missile Blast some utility to all mercs if they want it, lessening the sting of the high heat cost.

 

well, i sure hope they keep any kind of proc/utility AWAY from missle blast...

 

25 heat...no way. i just can't see that being a part of any rotation with that heat cost.

 

and in PvP?! not a chance.

 

i need that heat for situationals. JB, FT, FM, cleanse, heals, etc.

 

i'll stand by the damage : heat ratio is way too expensive for it to be cast at anytime except in 1v1, finishing an opponent...i.e. life or death situation.

 

with my rapid shot hitting for 1140-ish, i'll gladly use that.

Edited May 25, 2012 by T-Assassin

[ThePesh]

Nothing personal here, Many Pyros comment on changing alacrity.

 

Remember to take all trees into account when making recommendations... I would actually say take all seven into account (3 full tree specs with 10 optional, 3 of the 2 tree hybrids, and the all 3 tree hybrid). The 1st tier and even the second tier has to have some utility across all trees. Alacrity is there more for Guard and Arsen than for us. Just as crit option is there for us in guard and aim/missle damage in Arsen.

 

I have many recommendations but am currently trying to evaluate the whole picture and figure out the best way to present them.

 

I'm all for skills giving utility to other trees but being flat out useless to the tree they are in?

 

As it is, System Calibrations is just there to make the Pyro tree look like its got options, thats just bad design and is the reason why I suggest changing it.

 

The skill I described is IMO perfect as a tier 1 pyro skill: Its full benefits are for Pyro (and Pyro hybrids) but when used by the other builds the effect it gives is in the spirit of the Pyro tree in general: mobility.

[ThePesh]

well, i sure hope they keep any kind of proc/utility AWAY from missle blast...

 

25 heat...no way. i just can't see that being a part of any rotation with that heat cost.

 

and in PvP?! not a chance.

 

i need that heat for situationals. JB, FT, FM, cleanse, heals, etc.

 

i'll stand by the damage : heat ratio is way too expensive for it to be cast at anytime except in 1v1, finishing an opponent...i.e. life or death situation.

 

with my rapid shot hitting for 1140-ish, i'll gladly use that.

 

Well I don't think it necessarily needs to become part of a rotation to be useful, its more a situational mobile burst mechanic.

[T-Assassin]

Well I don't think it necessarily needs to become part of a rotation to be useful, its more a situational mobile burst mechanic.

 

trust me...i see what you are saying..

 

and i applaud and an all players that come in here with ideas (even if they are crap...j/k ). ideas, testing, and feedback is how we can continue to improve.

 

but, go sit at a training dummy and work on a rotation, and keep your heat at a >>>> regen rate, keeping you available to use any and all tools you might need at any given time...

 

missle blast doesn't fit in...

 

unless, you use TSO, or...

 

it's fit into your rotation, roughly the 3 round, after you proc your free RS...and instead of refreshing IM, you would use missle blast (PvE).

 

i would not.

 

use this as an example...a standard 1v1 (training dummy) fight. me, i would NOT use FT, too much heat for a single tgt, and it's channeled...so you regen during...

 

put missle blast in there...instant 25 heat.

 

i think it's a HUGE waste. (not even on my toolbar)

 

EDIT: sorry, what i am saying is...it would be a HUGE mistake to put something as valuable as RS proc on a schizer ability such as MB. as you said, it would be situational...i do not want my RS proc to be situational or so expensive.

Edited May 25, 2012 by T-Assassin

[ThePesh]

trust me...i see what you are saying..

 

and i applaud and an all players that come in here with ideas (even if they are crap...j/k ). ideas, testing, and feedback is how we can continue to improve.

 

but, go sit at a training dummy and work on a rotation, and keep your heat at a >>>> regen rate, keeping you available to use any and all tools you might need at any given time...

 

missle blast doesn't fit in...

 

unless, you use TSO, or...

 

it's fit into your rotation, roughly the 3 round, after you proc your free RS...and instead of refreshing IM, you would use missle blast (PvE).

 

i would not.

 

use this as an example...a standard 1v1 (training dummy) fight. me, i would NOT use FT, too much heat for a single tgt, and it's channeled...so you regen during...

 

put missle blast in there...instant 25 heat.

 

i think it's a HUGE waste. (not even on my toolbar)

 

EDIT: sorry, what i am saying is...it would be a HUGE mistake to put something as valuable as RS proc on a schizer ability such as MB. as you said, it would be situational...i do not want my RS proc to be situational or so expensive.

 

Yes I agree that having RS proc from MB is a bad idea. I assumed since you originally quoted my whole post that you were talking about my idea, not the OP proposal. It does seem though that the OP wants to have an extra way to proc rail on top of PPA which is just messy I think.

[Serpieri]

I like the idea of making Missle Blast useful. However i'd rather it procced a free non-channeled Flamethrower instead. Whats the point of being pyro if the ICONIC ability of being pyro never gets used? BET money that if it did, melee classes would either back off us or risk being burned alive pretty damn quick.

 

Pyromercs using flamethowers.....now that's an idea...wonder why bioware didn't equate pyro with fire? But then

again it's AP powertechs that use them.

[Briggs_Knightly]

I'm all for skills giving utility to other trees but being flat out useless to the tree they are in?

 

As it is, System Calibrations is just there to make the Pyro tree look like its got options, thats just bad design and is the reason why I suggest changing it.

 

The skill I described is IMO perfect as a tier 1 pyro skill: Its full benefits are for Pyro (and Pyro hybrids) but when used by the other builds the effect it gives is in the spirit of the Pyro tree in general: mobility.

 

I don't want to give away any of my play-style secrets, but a "Rapid Fire Pyro" was my favorite Merc to play. Combine our alac bonus and the one in Guard with some equipment mods and you could cycle through Rapid Fire, Unload and Power Shot pretty well. Add in the insta missles/darts and it was the only Merc setup that could effectively kite. Alas, that option is dead. Killed by the 1.2 patch. I still hope it comes back as an option (SOON).

 

That is the kind of options that a tree should have. Some people think that a skill is useless while others find a strategy that makes use of it. That way we don't all end up playing the same cookie-cutter classes that people grow tired of.

 

It would be better to change ICP to a 2 point [2 / 4]% skill that would be useful and more cost effective for someone like you while keeping the Sys Cal option available for someone like me. You only need to use 5 skill points per tier after all.