Playing the same 8 everyday and this needs to change

[terpineva]

After my 16th loss in a row, I just dont see a point in playing anymore on this server, and I dont want to reroll. The truth is I want to win, but its just leading to more frustration and the game is no longer fun.

 

We generally have about 20 people queueing for warzones on both sides in a 3 hour period. Outside those times, pvp just does not happen. Republic queue's 8 of the same, they are all Conquerers with War Hero gear and more or less win everytime. Imp's have 1 premades that does pretty well, but even that group rarely logs now; most of the good imperial players have rerolled Fatman.

 

I'm the most geared guy on the Imp side now, and I log in knowing there is no chance to win when half my team is in recruit gear. Its not like the pubs aren't going to show up less geared and coordinated, and being the only 'name' left on our side I'm constantly being taunted by them. I try to only reply with 'GG', but they like to get thier comments out. The losing would not bug me as much if it werent for that, I'm probably one of the nicest guys on the server, but being the only name they recognize I get focused and taunted all game. They've made it personal, and I really want to win, but I just dont see it happening.

 

The fact is, if you queue on our server as Imperial, you will play with the same group of undergeared players that played the day before, and you are guaranteed to lose 100% of the time. The sad fact is, while we still have some okay players left, our optimal lineup puts in a good game but falls short.

 

I'm sure this isn't the only server with this situation, and its beyond frustrating. The population is just not big enough for any breather, you always play the same team. I feel like Bioware doesn't think this is a problem, and with big server you have variety and play multiple teams and have a shot at redemption, but playing with the same 8 its like sparring with Mike Tyson over and over...

 

Soon is no longer acceptable for me. We need some dates and informaiton about transfers.

[-Ransome-]

I hear ya on that last comment. They made it obvious they dont want us to ask the same questions anymore for the Q/A but I think they shouldnt give us the same answer for every single question. "Were working on that and plan to have that out soon."

[Astarica]

There's really nothing Bioware can do if your server has a bunch of chickens that rerolled on Fatman because they're afraid of losing against a superior team, even if that team is a premade.

 

The fact that you're losing to the same 8 Republic guys is a sign that your side is NOT dying. You're not the side with only 8 players left who are all Conquerors, so there's a small price to pay for still having players on your side.

 

At any rate, as long as your server is not completely dead, it'll fix itself because then people will think 'oh Republics win all the time' and reroll there. In fact the Empire side sucks right now because all the bad Republic think like that so one side has to absorb all the bad players. I've seen about a few weeks of dominance by the same 8 guys on Republic side that I got tired of seeing, but yesterday I started seeing different names and rolled over them quite easily, so it looks like the bandwagon went back to Republic side, at least for now.

[Sookster]

This is the exact scenario happening on my server, the same group of republics everytime I queue, and it's resulting in imps not queuing anymore and vanishing. Had my day off a couple days ago and between 7am to 2pm my time there were exactly 0 queues. Edited May 24, 2012 by Sookster

[DarthLightSide]

yup pvp pretty sad right now....

[dcgregorya]

There's really nothing Bioware can do if your server has a bunch of chickens that rerolled on Fatman because they're afraid of losing against a superior team, even if that team is a premade.

 

At any rate, as long as your server is not completely dead, it'll fix itself because then people will think 'oh Republics win all the time' and reroll there.

 

For the first statement - yeah they can make it so that there are more than 50 people on each server.

 

For the second statement - our server had this happen and the result is that our side rarely queues a team of 8 at all. It's always 4 vs 8, 5 vs 8 or on a lucky day 6 vs 8 (we often win these but it's not a lot to hope for).

[Astarica]

This is the exact scenario happening on my server, the same group of republics everytime I queue, and it's resulting in imps not queuing anymore and vanishing. Had my day off a couple days ago and between 7am to 2pm my time there were exactly 0 queues.

 

Quitting has a very strong bias toward selecting good players because guys who actually win regularly have less incentive to quit.

 

So if Imps are quitting you should have enough good players left to fight the Republics, who got to where they are because all but 8 of their best players quit.

 

At any rate, why are you expecting queues at that particular time of the day? Whether you think the majority of SWTOR players are kids or adults, this is a time they'd not be at home (working or at school). Unemployment may be pretty bad, but hopefully it's not that bad.

 

I see this on my server. The Empire side loses beacuse we actually have fresh blood, aka newbies, while the Republic side only has 8 guys left who are all Conquerors. Although it sucks to lose about 75% of your game, the veteran players on the Empire side do appreciate the fact that we still have the newbies in our pool that led to these horrific losses because it means our side is still alive. Besides, our vets have literally fought those same 8 Republic guys hundreds of time, so it's not like we need to prove anything by now. We know we're fairly evenly matched at the Conqueror valor level and most players who care about the game don't think it's a bad thing that you actually have fresh blood on your side.

[IronmanSS]

Can't really blame them for winning - I mean what self respecting PvPer is not going to play their best and try to improve their game for "Rated" despite the eroding competition. As for the attitudes, try rolling a Pub alt and chatting them up, most people are just normal guys who like pvp just like you. Maybe congratulating them on sticking out a bad situation in terms of population and managing to thrive will begin a good dialogue with them. The same thing is going on on my server, but I do have respect for my opponents who stuck it out this far and stuck together as a team longer than our side managed to.

 

Aside from that, you can refuse to be their "floormat" and find something more "fun" to do in the meantime until the population issues are addressed. If they continually disrespect their opponents and discourage new blood from Qing up, then eventually they will reap the reward of having no one to play. They can sit for hours running Dailies in their WH gear waiting for a Q that never comes. About a week of that and they'll most likely quit the game out of boredom. You win. Or is it we all lose? Either way, TY BW.

[Zintiel]

I play both sides every day on the same server. My team generally wins, because I am a good player in pugs and because when I know bad players are going to queue up with me I form or join a premade to avoid them.

 

I'm on my third reroll. It's really quite fun playing on Fatman because so many bad players rerolled there and as I stated above, I am not bad. However, I don't think I'll have time to really level there beyond lowbie PvP as I am having fun winning games on my own server.

[Astarica]

I had a conversation on fleet over this and one guy said it pretty well. Republics had to get good at organizing because this is the only way they can survive. Empire faction had a superior numbers, gear, and usually skill advantage (just because you've more people to form your premade from). We know from Bioware's stat that Empire does win more than 50% of the WZs. So what happens is that the Empire faction's superiority allows them to carry newbies, and over time bad players on Republic rerolled since they want the stronger side to carry them to victory. Now, it'd appear on many servers (mine included) we've reached a point where every bad player rerolled on the Empire side so the Empire faction can no longer carry all those bad players to victory against the few hardened Republics that remain.

 

But why is that even a bad thing? I don't think carrying bad players to victory is even healthy for the game in the long term, unless you think automatically winning just because you're on the Empire side is somehow a good thing for the length of the game. The Empire dominated my server's WZ initiially, but the last month has been Republic domiancne, and now I'm seeing more newbies show up in the Republic side (presumably hoping the last 8 Republic guys can carry them), and now we're dominating the Republics again. It's a necessary cycle and having more people would not change the fact that one side has to be winning more often, and the losing side will have its bads reroll on the winning side, which eventually makes the winning side the losing side, and then the cycle repeats itself.

[Sookster]

Quitting has a very strong bias toward selecting good players because guys who actually win regularly have less incentive to quit.

 

So if Imps are quitting you should have enough good players left to fight the Republics, who got to where they are because all but 8 of their best players quit.

 

At any rate, why are you expecting queues at that particular time of the day? Whether you think the majority of SWTOR players are kids or adults, this is a time they'd not be at home (working or at school). Unemployment may be pretty bad, but hopefully it's not that bad.

 

I see this on my server. The Empire side loses beacuse we actually have fresh blood, aka newbies, while the Republic side only has 8 guys left who are all Conquerors. Although it sucks to lose about 75% of your game, the veteran players on the Empire side do appreciate the fact that we still have the newbies in our pool that led to these horrific losses because it means our side is still alive. Besides, our vets have literally fought those same 8 Republic guys hundreds of time, so it's not like we need to prove anything by now. We know we're fairly evenly matched at the Conqueror valor level and most players who care about the game don't think it's a bad thing that you actually have fresh blood on your side.

 

Back in Feb queues were popping all the time during the weekday, but now with fewer people it just doesn't happen anymore. Fatman is the server now I guess if you want to get queues during the day, got a lowbie republic alt there now.

[Sookster]

We know from Bioware's stat that Empire does win more than 50% of the WZs.

 

Didn't they say that most of the time those were in huttball, where it's almost always imp vs imp?

[Astarica]

Back in Feb queues were popping all the time during the weekday, but now with fewer people it just doesn't happen anymore. Fatman is the server now I guess if you want to get queues during the day, got a lowbie republic alt there now.

 

You should not equate launch time craze with normal behavior. I get queues on prime time during weekdays fine. I don't really expect to get them outside of prime time. People are supposed to be at work or at school.

 

At any rate not getting queue is a weak excuse. I know a bunch of guys on my server that rerolled on Fatman due to 'lack of queues' but getting immediate queues after a WZ is over is quite common on my server. I know the reason they really did it is that they got tired of carrying all the bad players against the remaining 8 Republic Conquerors. I understand why they'd do it, but they didn't do this to 'find a challenge' or 'lack of queues'. In fact, you'd think fighting against the server's best 8 players would be the biggest challenge you can find, but I guess people decide challenge isn't worth it when they realize they're not up for the challenge.

[Astarica]

Didn't they say that most of the time those were in huttball, where it's almost always imp vs imp?

 

Um, the figure was 52% and if an Imp versus Imp counts as a victory for Imp, I'm sure the % wold be like Empire wins 90% of the games, since we probably have more Huttball Empire vs Empire games than all Empire versus Republic games combined back when queues are popping quickly.

[terpineva]

I had a conversation on fleet over this and one guy said it pretty well. Republics had to get good at organizing because this is the only way they can survive. Empire faction had a superior numbers, gear, and usually skill advantage (just because you've more people to form your premade from). We know from Bioware's stat that Empire does win more than 50% of the WZs. So what happens is that the Empire faction's superiority allows them to carry newbies, and over time bad players on Republic rerolled since they want the stronger side to carry them to victory. Now, it'd appear on many servers (mine included) we've reached a point where every bad player rerolled on the Empire side so the Empire faction can no longer carry all those bad players to victory against the few hardened Republics that remain.

 

But why is that even a bad thing? I don't think carrying bad players to victory is even healthy for the game in the long term, unless you think automatically winning just because you're on the Empire side is somehow a good thing for the length of the game. The Empire dominated my server's WZ initiially, but the last month has been Republic domiancne, and now I'm seeing more newbies show up in the Republic side (presumably hoping the last 8 Republic guys can carry them), and now we're dominating the Republics again. It's a necessary cycle and having more people would not change the fact that one side has to be winning more often, and the losing side will have its bads reroll on the winning side, which eventually makes the winning side the losing side, and then the cycle repeats itself.

 

This was the cycle, and it worked itself out pretty well. Everything has changed now and there is no fresh blood. Very few people reroll on our server, as its painfully obvious the is no community left; usually less than 200 on both sides during prime hours. The 50's we have now are people who just bought the game, and are just experiencing pvp. The leveling planets are empty, and it seems like this is how things are going to be until the server shuts down.

 

We've been bleeding players on our side, I'd say we lose about 3% a night. People see the writing on the wall, Imperials are not going to be able to enjoy content, so why stick around.

 

I have nothing against the 8 Republic that play, with the exception of their taunting. The fact is they are better than us atm and I do not see that changing. The answer is on the wall, reroll or quit the game. I refuse though to be someone who quits a game because of constant losing, and would like to go out winning a few but I need 7 other decent players to do that.

[Marqhill]

I actually completely feel for the OP. I'm sorry to hear that you're having that experience. I'm actually experiencing nearly the exact same thing but from the opposite end of this experience. I'm a republic player and my server is slowly but surely dwindling. So usually I'll end up queuing for War Zones with the same group of conquerors and 1 or 2 guys in recruit gear. We're mostly wearing augmented war hero gear with a few pieces of Battle Master left over. We've also noticed an increase in "Squishy" imperial players. I guess that would be poor guys like you who are wearing recruit gear.

 

I actually never felt bad for people in your situation until right now for a few reasons.

 

1) Almost all the imperial players on my server are complete A-holes. I literally don't care what happens to them. They're the worst people I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with on a daily basis and for the most part I hope they die in a fire. They griefed me for no reason while leveling they're cocky jerks and they taunt you through /Say during war zones and I'm glad that we beat their faces in so badly that for the most part they seem to have quit the game.

 

2) I went through HELL to get my champion gear back when it was based on luck in getting it from those stupid freakin' champion bags. The imperial players were a big part of why getting my gear was so difficult and my primary motivation for suffering through it was based entirely on vengeance. Which leads me to my next reason...

 

3) After having experienced these imperial players I made a promise to myself. I promised that I would become so good at the game that imperial players would no longer have fun playing against me. 'Cause ya know... I hate their souls.

 

However, YOU (Original Poster) seem like a nice guy and I genuinely feel bad for you. I hope you don't quit the game because of this situation. I hope you stick around long enough for server transfers at least. It seems to me like your republic players are acting like my Imperial players... except your Republic players are winning all the time. Which has gotta sting. I'm sorry to hear dude. You could also stick it out until you and yours get geared. Once you're all fully geared then maybe you'll see the game become somewhat less one sided.

[terpineva]

I actually completely feel for the OP. I'm sorry to hear that you're having that experience. I'm actually experiencing nearly the exact same thing but from the opposite end of this experience. I'm a republic player and my server is slowly but surely dwindling. So usually I'll end up queuing for War Zones with the same group of conquerors and 1 or 2 guys in recruit gear. We're mostly wearing augmented war hero gear with a few pieces of Battle Master left over. We've also noticed an increase in "Squishy" imperial players. I guess that would be poor guys like you who are wearing recruit gear.

 

I actually never felt bad for people in your situation until right now for a few reasons.

 

1) Almost all the imperial players on my server are complete A-holes. I literally don't care what happens to them. They're the worst people I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with on a daily basis and for the most part I hope they die in a fire. They griefed me for no reason while leveling they're cocky jerks and they taunt you through /Say during war zones and I'm glad that we beat their faces in so badly that for the most part they seem to have quit the game.

 

2) I went through HELL to get my champion gear back when it was based on luck in getting it from those stupid freakin' champion bags. The imperial players were a big part of why getting my gear was so difficult and my primary motivation for suffering through it was based entirely on vengeance. Which leads me to my next reason...

 

3) After having experienced these imperial players I made a promise to myself. I promised that I would become so good at the game that imperial players would no longer have fun playing against me. 'Cause ya know... I hate their souls.

 

However, YOU (Original Poster) seem like a nice guy and I genuinely feel bad for you. I hope you don't quit the game because of this situation. I hope you stick around long enough for server transfers at least. It seems to me like your republic players are acting like my Imperial players... except your Republic players are winning all the time. Which has gotta sting. I'm sorry to hear dude. You could also stick it out until you and yours get geared. Once you're all fully geared then maybe you'll see the game become somewhat less one sided.

 

Thanks, I can totally understand. Imperials tended to be mouthy on our server, but they all slowly left after 1.2. I can understand hating Imps cus of Ilum (which was the worst system ever), Now the Imperial community is much mellower than the pub community, which has the only remaining pvp guild on the server, and are known for their bad attitudes.

 

Personally, I've always believed in treating people on the net how you would in real life. its a dumb idea, and i dont let ethugs walk all over me, the problem is with the way the game is set up they are walking all over me by winning. They can trash us all day and we really cant do much about it. Trust me, I practice my tail off and have done 600k healing on one character and 600k damage on another, but I cant control what the other 7 do.

 

I'm actually surprised people are so understanding and theres not as much pushback. I was expecting a 'cry more' plethora of responses but I appreciate the replies.

[Kllashaa]

I had a conversation on fleet over this and one guy said it pretty well. Republics had to get good at organizing because this is the only way they can survive. Empire faction had a superior numbers, gear, and usually skill advantage (just because you've more people to form your premade from). We know from Bioware's stat that Empire does win more than 50% of the WZs. So what happens is that the Empire faction's superiority allows them to carry newbies, and over time bad players on Republic rerolled since they want the stronger side to carry them to victory. Now, it'd appear on many servers (mine included) we've reached a point where every bad player rerolled on the Empire side so the Empire faction can no longer carry all those bad players to victory against the few hardened Republics that remain.

Good post. This mirrors my experience on Swiftsure and Ajunta Pall. Republic side has much better teamwork and coordination, and people generally use vent/TS more actively on pub side. The trash talking extends to both factions, though I tend to see mouthier imps.

 

I see a lot more new 50s on imp side than pub. It'd be interesting to get a stat on whether new players hit 50 on their first toon as an imp or pub.