Astarica Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Not counting healers who are difficult to put a 'survivality' rating on them, Marauder is probably the second hardest to kill class in the game out of targets that are worth killing. I really don't get where people get the idea that they're squishy, and it's not like truly squishy classes like Deception Assassins actually do more damage than Marauders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Not counting healers who are difficult to put a 'survivality' rating on them, Marauder is probably the second hardest to kill class in the game out of targets that are worth killing. I really don't get where people get the idea that they're squishy, and it's not like truly squishy classes like Deception Assassins actually do more damage than Marauders. As it should be honestly. Mara HAS to be in 4m to be effective at all. Few classes can be completely neutralized by a simple root like a mara is. Knock back + root = roflstomp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 As it should be honestly. Mara HAS to be in 4m to be effective at all. Few classes can be completely neutralized by a simple root like a mara is. Knock back + root = roflstomp. Okay, let's start over. Why do you feel it is balanced for a class to both be incredibly hard to kill and also have arguably the highest damage output in the game? Bring me to your side, convince me to see this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffor Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Immunity to death on cool down? Okay, welcome to the lives of every other class, I guess. Immunity to death really? If there is no healer around a Sentinel will usually die after their 5 seconds of fury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffor Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Yeah, Marauders draw a lot of CCs...wonder why? Because the other team has 6 sorcerers on it maybe? I have no problems with the constant CC. As a melee DPSer I take it as an honor to receive such attention. That is also why I think we deserve our defensive CDs powerful though they are. Edited May 24, 2012 by Jeffor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Immunity to death really? If there is no healer around a Sentinel will usually die after their 5 seconds of fury. After you have laid 5 - 6 seconds of damage onto someone who, by all rights, should have you dead already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Okay, let's start over. Why do you feel it is balanced for a class to both be incredibly hard to kill and also have arguably the highest damage output in the game? Bring me to your side, convince me to see this too. I would argue that, because they have they have arguably least utility of any AC, it is balanced. No hard stun, no knockback, no pulls, no heals, no guard, no and no taunts. The only utility a mara brings to a group is predation, and bloodthrist. Both require 30 stacks of fury, so using predation means that the mara isnt using berserk, reducing their offensive capabilities, and Bloodthrist has the longest CD of any pvp usuable skill in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffor Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 After you have laid 5 - 6 seconds of damage onto someone who, by all rights, should have you dead already. Says who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) i would argue that, because they have they have arguably least utility of any ac, it is balanced. No hard stun, no knockback, no pulls, no heals, no guard, no and no taunts. The only utility a mara brings to a group is predation, and bloodthrist. Both require 30 stacks of fury, so using predation means that the mara isnt using berserk, reducing their offensive capabilities, and bloodthrist has the longest cd of any pvp usuable skill in the game. +1 Edited May 24, 2012 by UGLYMRJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Alyria Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Okay, let's start over. Why do you feel it is balanced for a class to both be incredibly hard to kill and also have arguably the highest damage output in the game? Bring me to your side, convince me to see this too. If you really think they are mighty mighty why not just play one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) As it should be honestly. Mara HAS to be in 4m to be effective at all. Few classes can be completely neutralized by a simple root like a mara is. Knock back + root = roflstomp. 12s Force Leap on Watchman + 50% snare on Rupture/Cauterize? Snare breaks and roots in Combat? Jumping across pits? Speed boost on Force Camo? Ranged execute and Force Scream? Awesome unbuffed single-target snare? Maras have amazing uptime and gap closers on a target compared to a Deception Assassin. Do you want a sniper rifle with homing bullets and a super glue grenade, too? Maybe we should give the Mara Spider-Man legacy powers! Edited May 24, 2012 by Kllashaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Okay, let's start over. Why do you feel it is balanced for a class to both be incredibly hard to kill and also have arguably the highest damage output in the game? Bring me to your side, convince me to see this too. I don't believe you can be convinced. Your hatred of maras and UR is well documented. You have your opinion and others have theirs. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. You say it's not fair that maras have a "god mode"(except vs stuns and roots which swtor has a lot of) and I and many others think not only is it overrated but also easily countered. I would trade 5 sec of 99 Dmg red and no immunity to stuns for a 4 sec stun on a shorter CD that provides 100% immunity to everything(since they are stunned and not doing anything). UR is great for holding a turret for a few seconds though and you could probably increase the CD a bit and not affect much but calling UR OP is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I would argue that, because they have they have arguably least utility of any AC, it is balanced. No hard stun, no knockback, no pulls, no heals, no guard, no and no taunts. The only utility a mara brings to a group is predation, and bloodthrist. Both require 30 stacks of fury, so using predation means that the mara isnt using berserk, reducing their offensive capabilities, and Bloodthrist has the longest CD of any pvp usuable skill in the game. No pulls eh? Funny how you neglect to mention your gap closer that ignores pathing restrictions. There are other melee dps classes that suffer the same deficiencies (aside from a single target stun) in utility, but aren't awarded such great defensive cool downs. In fact, scoundrels have to spec out of the base penalty for using their in-combat stealth. So we've come full circle; your reasoning for needing 5 - 6 seconds of not dying is because you lack a hard stun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Resilience/Force Shroud is way more OP than Guarded By the Force/Undying Rage, especially if you're specced for it. It's pretty funny seeing all the ccs come flying out when a Mara tries to 1v3 a good team, then get smacked in the face with a 4k execute a second after they get out of the stun/mez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armelle Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Says who? Says everyone but you . Resilience/Force Shroud is way more OP than Guarded By the Force/Undying Rage, especially if you're specced for it. It's pretty funny seeing all the ccs come flying out when a Mara tries to 1v3 a good team, then get smacked in the face with a 4k execute a second after they get out of the stun/mez. Yeah, marauders are so funny and inept when they cannot pull off the 1v3 thing...they must be balanced. Edited May 24, 2012 by Armelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 12s Force Leap on Watchman + 50% snare on Rupture/Cauterize? Snare breaks and roots in Combat? Jumping across pits? Speed boost on Force Camo? Ranged execute and Force Scream? Awesome unbuffed single-target snare? Maras have amazing uptime and gap closers on a target compared to a Deception Assassin. Do you want a sniper rifle with homing bullets and a super glue grenade, too? Maybe we should give the Mara Spider-Man legacy powers! Yeah I roll a 31/31/31 build and have all of that. I play watchman. I have 1 gap closer which is force leap on a 12 sec CD not usable against targets in cover. I have force camo which doesn't break combat and allows me a speed boost for a few seconds(but youre slowed alot by everone elses powers so it evens out) Oh and my cauterize slows(but have to get close to use it) Other classes have what? At least 1 hard stun with various degrees of knock backs, slows and roots. Sentinel is no different that any other class. Whoever has the most stuff off CD is gonna win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 No pulls eh? Funny how you neglect to mention your gap closer that ignores pathing restrictions. There are other melee dps classes that suffer the same deficiencies (aside from a single target stun) in utility, but aren't awarded such great defensive cool downs. In fact, scoundrels have to spec out of the base penalty for using their in-combat stealth. So we've come full circle; your reasoning for needing 5 - 6 seconds of not dying is because you lack a hard stun? I wasn't aware that force leap counted as "group utility". A Pull can be used to pull an enemy into a group of your allies, a leap can not. Scoundrels don't just have a hard stun, they can HEAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I don't believe you can be convinced. Your hatred of maras and UR is well documented. You have your opinion and others have theirs. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. You say it's not fair that maras have a "god mode"(except vs stuns and roots which swtor has a lot of) and I and many others think not only is it overrated but also easily countered. I would trade 5 sec of 99 Dmg red and no immunity to stuns for a 4 sec stun on a shorter CD that provides 100% immunity to everything(since they are stunned and not doing anything). UR is great for holding a turret for a few seconds though and you could probably increase the CD a bit and not affect much but calling UR OP is nonsense. No sir, you are incorrect. I certainly can be convinced of anything if I'm given a logical explanation. I'm not even advocating losing your immunity, I'm just trying to understand why you should have your full damage output while immune to death. No one has even attempted to give any decent reason why you feel like they are entitled to full damage output while immune to being killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) I have 1 gap closer which is force leap on a 12 sec CD not usable against targets in cover. My God, there is one class out there that I can't leap to and derp on! I have both a Sent and Mara at 50 and, and am geared out. You haven't even hit 50 yet. Edited May 24, 2012 by Kllashaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I wasn't aware that force leap counted as "group utility". A Pull can be used to pull an enemy into a group of your allies, a leap can not. Scoundrels don't just have a hard stun, they can HEAL. Yeah, scrappers can heal. Cool, your argument makes sense to me now. All those teams of scrappers stunlocking and healing are going to make people unsub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Yeah, scrappers can heal. Cool, your argument makes sense to me now. All those teams of scrappers stunlocking and healing are going to make people unsub. The Underworld Medicine from a DPS-specced Scoundrel is pretty darn scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Alyria Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 No sir, you are incorrect. I certainly can be convinced of anything if I'm given a logical explanation. I'm not even advocating losing your immunity, I'm just trying to understand why you should have your full damage output while immune to death. No one has even attempted to give any decent reason why you feel like they are entitled to full damage output while immune to being killed. Again, why not play a mara? I mean if it's easy mode, you too can have 5 seconds of invincibility. Though I have a feeling if you got one to 50 you'd see reality and perception don't match up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armelle Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 I'll take 99% immune to all players over 100% immune to one any day of the week. Sign me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatebomb Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 My God, there is one class out there that I can't leap to and derp on! I have both a Sent and Mara at 50 and, and am geared out. You haven't even hit 50 yet. That whole post and that's what you take away. Lol. Oh and I'm sorry do you get magical powers at 50? Does a 4th tree unlock? I have 4 50's(most retired on a dead server) and have played with and vs every class(except sniper/ops so I can't speak to all thier abilities). Stop saying since you're geared and my sent isn't 50(48 ATM) that my arguement is invalid. In fact the opposite should be true. You should know UR isn't a god mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Again, why not play a mara? I mean if it's easy mode, you too can have 5 seconds of invincibility. Though I have a feeling if you got one to 50 you'd see reality and perception don't match up. Who says I don't? Assumptions are a terrific indicator of intellect, so I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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