Enough Lucas Bashing Already!

[Rammur]

Most the people bashing lucas wernt even born yet or problebly never read or watched his movies till recently there fore their arguments are invalid.

[DrowNoble]

I didn't have a problem with Lucas redoing the original trilogy. After all, he didn't really change anything just cleaned up the special effects added some scenes that were already filmed but never made it to the final cut.

 

The issue I have is how badly the prequels were written and how he keeps changing things.

 

Changing Anakin's force ghost at the end of ep 6 to look like Haden was stupid. He died as an adult WHY would he revert to his teenage look upon death? Obi-wan didn't. Then he explains the Force by calling it caused by bacteria. Really? Leave it mysterious it's better that way, too much explanations ruin the mythology.

 

If Lucas wants to restore his credibility with his fans, redo the the prequels so They Make Sense. Episodes 1-3 almost seemed like they were written by someone unfamiliar with star wars. All that money wasted making Episode One 3D should of been spent reshooting and redoing the plot holes and inconsistencies of the prequels.

[Captain_Zone]

I didn't have a problem with Lucas redoing the original trilogy. After all, he didn't really change anything just cleaned up the special effects added some scenes that were already filmed but never made it to the final cut.

 

The issue I have is how badly the prequels were written and how he keeps changing things.

 

Changing Anakin's force ghost at the end of ep 6 to look like Haden was stupid. He died as an adult WHY would he revert to his teenage look upon death? Obi-wan didn't. Then he explains the Force by calling it caused by bacteria. Really? Leave it mysterious it's better that way, too much explanations ruin the mythology.

 

If Lucas wants to restore his credibility with his fans, redo the the prequels so They Make Sense. Episodes 1-3 almost seemed like they were written by someone unfamiliar with star wars. All that money wasted making Episode One 3D should of been spent reshooting and redoing the plot holes and inconsistencies of the prequels.

 

I agree with most of what you said. Now, you forgot "Han Shot" evolving into "Greedo Shot First". That was my biggest pet peeve about George Lucas' revisions. And in the interview where he was asked about it, he said he always intended it to be that way??? If that were true, he would have done it in the FIRST revision. OR he would have done it right the first time. No matter how you look at it, George has lost it. Plothole Mania with the prequels. lol

 

Oh! And let's not forget his infamous "Han Shot First" T-Shirt. How much of a hypocrite can he be?

[Altredis]

I never really cared that much for the PT, but am I mad at Geroge for doing it? Not really.

 

My only problem is that I cant watch the OT in its unedited verison because Lucas wants to have a fit of people not enjoying his movies, GEROGE RELEASE THE OT IN ITS UNEDITED FORMAT WE WILL LIKE IT! (at least I will). I can remember watching the unedited version as a kid and seeing Han shoot first, inital thought "HE PLAYS NO GAMES!" Made me love the guy, went from gun shooting to a hero. That's character development people.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Altredis

[liammozz]

I might as well put up my rankings for the movies....

 

1. Empire Strikes Back.

2. A New Hope.

3. Return of the Jedi.

4. The ENTIRE Firefly series.

5. Serenity.

6. BOTH Ewoks movies.

7. The ENTIRE Droids series.

8. The ENTIRE Ewoks series.

9. The Holiday Special.

10. Revenge of the Sith.

11. Attack of the Clones.

12. The Phantom Menace.

 

lol firefly got number 4 Sheldon cooper still plays TOR it seems

[Nydus]

Arg.

 

I'm defending George Lucas when I say this:

 

The Star Wars movies are more of a visual experience than good storytelling; and that goes for both trilogies.

 

In many ways, the story of the Episodes IV through VI is the weakest: the Black Knight, the Last of the Wizards, the Young Boy on a Quest after his Family is Killed. This is the story line of untold legions of crappy fantasy novels, both before and after the release of Star Wars. I think what made it palatable on the screen were some decent actors and bedazzling special effects. However, you remove those special effects you get one crappy series of movies that Harrison Ford can't make up for.

 

Regarding Episodes I through III, there is actually an *attempt* here at a unique story. As a student of history, there are many references throughout the series to historical events going back to the Fall of the Roman Republic. However, Star Wars was never about a complex story and fans reacted quite negatively to the themes. "What do trade negotiations have to do with war?" I heard one disappointed fan explain. Actually, trade has an awful lot to do with war!

 

I'd complain about the acting of the lead characters but to be honest, it isn't as if Luke and Leia were going to win an Oscar for the role. That isn't their fault: Star Wars characters are generally so flat and uninteresting that you know the precise role someone is going to play after their first line. And as with the first trilogy, we have examples of a few gems. For example, Ewan did a decent job with his character's evolution.

 

But if you ask me there was only one character that was remotely interesting -- Palpatine. Which is why the Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith are my favourites. He's the only character that shows any sort of complexity. And not much at that; really he's just the epitome of duplicity but the idea that he's thinking something different than he's saying is a step in the right direction. Far better than knowing exactly what the other characters are thinking at all times! Who among us says exactly what they are thinking all the time? Terrible character writing, terrible!

 

So there is my defense of George Lucas: the original trilogy was both spectacular and spectacularly predictable. The new trilogy was spectacular and only hinted at an expanded complexity to the universe, a complexity the fanbase didn't respond at all well to.

 

I suppose I approach the series differently as I was never really a Star Wars "fan" as a kid. I came to appreciate the movies as I got older and am much more accepting of the flaws (and juvenile nature of the story). I wasn't a child who worshiped the movies who now hides from their flaws . Seriously, Ewoks taking out elite legions storm troopers? Logs crushing walkers?

 

How exactly is the rebellion losing the war against the empire?

 

- Arcada

Edited August 14, 2012 by Nydus

[Philly_D]

why are any of you people here? it sounds like most of you dont like star wars. there is no bad star wars. every aspect of star wars kicks ***. its all star wars if you dont like it then get out.

[Captain_Zone]

why are any of you people here? it sounds like most of you dont like star wars. there is no bad star wars. every aspect of star wars kicks ***. its all star wars if you dont like it then get out.

 

I lol'd.

[Captain_Zone]

lol firefly got number 4 Sheldon cooper still plays TOR it seems

 

Yeah, his name on here is SIrCopperfield. Look up his posts. He's an MMO Legend (in his own mind). lol

 

But seriously, Joss Whedon blows George Lucas out of the water in both storytelling and dialogue.

[Jrea]

why are any of you people here? it sounds like most of you dont like star wars. there is no bad star wars. every aspect of star wars kicks ***. its all star wars if you dont like it then get out.

 

Agreed, If you hate George Lucas please go away.

 

.......Mabe you could try STO. Gene Roddenberry won't be coming back to make you people cry.

[Captain_Zone]

*bashes George Lucas and runs*

 

[Captain_Zone]

Agreed, If you hate George Lucas please go away.

 

.......Mabe you could try STO. Gene Roddenberry won't be coming back to make you people cry.

 

And before YOU say anything, you were the one who necro'd this thread! Should have left it in the graveyard.

 

 

*BASHES George Lucas again for good measure*

[Jak-Jak]

[Captain_Zone]

 

It's both funny and sad that every word of that song is true.

[Doqtyr]

I have to be honest I love the Star Wars universe, I think we can all agree on this point given where this forum exists. However after watching A New Hope just now I am shocked this movie did not bomb like a burning bag on the doorstep... HONESTLY! ....The story was a hot mess, there is so little that keeps things together, the accepted lore about Jedi and Sith is nowhere to be found and the characters were so shallow and one dimensional that every meaningful choice they make just seemed like the thing to do so the movie can continue. I cannot say for certain, but I would guess that if this wasn’t at the time the next level of Sci Fi movie making and if George did not put together not only a great team of behind the camera talent as well as a very talented troupe of actors we would all be stuck playing Warcraft right now. I am so thankful that I was very young when Empire and Jedi came out so I could actually enjoy those movies and put on a fanboy hat when I finally saw A New Hope. I love each movie for something different, and I am all in with the SW universe but of all the writing done in this universe Lucas is probably one of my least favorite. Compare if you will Admiral Thrawn to Grand Moff Tarkin or even Jacen Solo to Anakin Skywalker. The difference in how well these characters are handled is incredible, by the end of Zahn’s original trilogy I honestly felt for Thrawn and Pelleon and Rukah.( I hope I spelled those names right). All in all, I am glad There exists a Star Wars universe despite George Lucas efforts to ruin it entirely. Now back to watching Empire.

[Lord_Karsk]

I dare anyone here to come up with a great story like in episode 1 with all the characters and backstories etc etc

........................thats right you cant, you know why >? because you have no talent, no writting skills no imagination'

no what so ever.That is why George Lucas is a storryteller movie magic making genius and you are doing what ever....

[Drudenfusz]

I dare anyone here to come up with a great story like in episode 1 with all the characters and backstories etc etc

........................thats right you cant, you know why >? because you have no talent, no writting skills no imagination'

no what so ever.That is why George Lucas is a storryteller movie magic making genius and you are doing what ever....

Give me the money and I will make you a movie that is better... but that is because I am a storyteller too. That said, I don't think people have to be capable of doing something better just to tell that something was crap. I cannot repair a car, but I can tell you that something is broken when the engine in not working.

[Kaisernick]

I think Lucas doesn't deserve to much bashing.

 

the prequels were good just not as good as the OT i mean perhaps one of my favorite scenes in the entire franchise is the opera house with palpatine yet ironically my most cringe bit (not including any jar jar dialogue) is "YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER" AND "YOU TURNED HER AGAINST ME"

 

even the asoka bashing i must admit i didn't like her at first but as the series has gone on she has become more likeable.

[Lord_Karsk]

Give me the money and I will make you a movie that is better... but that is because I am a storyteller too. That said, I don't think people have to be capable of doing something better just to tell that something was crap. I cannot repair a car, but I can tell you that something is broken when the engine in not working.

 

Sry but just like most of hollywood you have no talent what so ever,and just the fact that you think having money

will change anything for the better is just sad.I can also make great stories in my head but it is always more easy

making stories of what others have alredy made and created.If you can make a new IP and stories like Lucas did with star wars ans Indiana Jones etc then you have talent, until then you are just another leach living of others idees.

And i know for a fact you or anyone else could never make a great story like lucas have.Not even the people making the star wars novels can do that.

[Drudenfusz]

Sry but just like most of hollywood you have no talent what so ever,and just the fact that you think having money

will change anything for the better is just sad.I can also make great stories in my head but it is always more easy

making stories of what others have alredy made and created.If you can make a new IP and stories like Lucas did with star wars ans Indiana Jones etc then you have talent, until then you are just another leach living of others idees.

And i know for a fact you or anyone else could never make a great story like lucas have.Not even the people making the star wars novels can do that.

I think there are plenty of stories that are better than Star Wars out there. Sure, the original movies were great and I am thankful Lucas did them. But The Phantom Manace is so bad that there cannot be any sxcuse for it. Even a genie can make mistakes, and Lucas did that with The Phantom Manace... and Indy 4 was also crap. Maybe he just lost his mojo.

 

Star Wars might be currently the greatinst IP on earth, but who knows maybe that will change soon enough. For example what Marvel is doing with the Avengers currently looks pretty awesome, and every single movie in that Marvel cinematic universe (even the second Hulk and the second iron man were so much better than The Phantom Manace).

 

Oh, and I am pretty sure I have ideas that are great too, all I have to do is tell them in some form or another... and if I would like to make them as movies I would need money to make said movies. Sure, special effects make not necessary a good movie (Micheal Bay seems to get that wrong every time), but the good block busters have them and they cost money. Even a movie without much special effects I would have to pay actors and what have you, so give me money and I will show you that I can make it.

[Lord_Karsk]

I think there are plenty of stories that are better than Star Wars out there. Sure, the original movies were great and I am thankful Lucas did them. But The Phantom Manace is so bad that there cannot be any sxcuse for it. Even a genie can make mistakes, and Lucas did that with The Phantom Manace... and Indy 4 was also crap. Maybe he just lost his mojo.

 

Star Wars might be currently the greatinst IP on earth, but who knows maybe that will change soon enough. For example what Marvel is doing with the Avengers currently looks pretty awesome, and every single movie in that Marvel cinematic universe (even the second Hulk and the second iron man were so much better than The Phantom Manace).

 

Oh, and I am pretty sure I have ideas that are great too, all I have to do is tell them in some form or another... and if I would like to make them as movies I would need money to make said movies. Sure, special effects make not necessary a good movie (Micheal Bay seems to get that wrong every time), but the good block busters have them and they cost money. Even a movie without much special effects I would have to pay actors and what have you, so give me money and I will show you that I can make it.

 

Just because you dont like the movie as a whole the story is crap ? wow ! are you aware that TFM have much much more story then any of the original triliogy movies?

 

Palpatine as a senator

Qui gon Jinn

Padme

Jedi order and how it works

Coruscant

Podracing

Darth Maul

Trade federation and it's characters

Senate politics

Naboo

Backstory of Anaking C3PO and R2D2

Midiclorians

Palpatines rise to power

Discovery of the choosen one

Valorum

Shmi Skywalker

How the force created Anakin

How Anaking becomes a padawan

Battle of naboo

Jedi council

 

And much more backstories and lore etc etc.But i'm sure you could have thought of all this

Edited October 7, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

[Pirana]

The Lucas bashing is always comical to me. If anyone thinks they can do a better job, then by all means, go for it. Once you've made your billions, then check back.

[SiXXXX]

I respect Lucas's creation. I love it.

 

I like the prequels, Revenge of the Sith is great. Second best? No. But 3rd for sure.

 

Thing is the prequels make little to zero sense, and lost many of the great things. Empire Strikes Back was the best movie of the 6. Is it seriously coincidence that the one movie he didn't direct is the best? No.

 

Fact is: the more control Lucas had, and the less he was challenged, the worse the movies got. Some of his decisions were absolutely foolish.

 

I don't hate George, but I sure do not agree with a lot that he has done.

 

I reccommend everybody watch http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/ star wars reviews, that are both hilarious and right on the money. Sorry Lucas lovers but he has tarnished his legacy, no matter how much I love what he created and how awesome he made my childhood. I respect him, but I also have a bitter taste when it comes to many of his more recent, executive decisions.

[LordExozone]

Just because you dont like the movie as a whole the story is crap ? wow ! are you aware that TFM have much much more story then any of the original triliogy movies?

 

Palpatine as a senator

Qui gon Jinn

Padme

Jedi order and how it works

Coruscant

Podracing

Darth Maul

Trade federation and it's characters

Senate politics

Naboo

Backstory of Anaking C3PO and R2D2

Midiclorians

Palpatines rise to power

Discovery of the choosen one

Valorum

Shmi Skywalker

How the force created Anakin

How Anaking becomes a padawan

Battle of naboo

Jedi council

 

And much more backstories and lore etc etc.But i'm sure you could have thought of all this

 

Which is part of the reason why the new movies failed so bad. Lucas tried to do too much in them making them a mess of storylines and characters that do not get enough screen-time to engage the viewer.

 

Another reason is CGI. We can blame the actors all we want but if you are standing in an empty room with a blue screen and have to pretend like you are standing and talking in a forest, that takes away from the actors performances. Even Natalie Portman who is an excellent actress gave a poor performance in the prequel movies.

 

For the original movies sets where hand-build and looked the part, and it shows in the actors performances.

[Drudenfusz]

Just because you dont like the movie as a whole the story is crap ? wow ! are you aware that TFM have much much more story then any of the original triliogy movies?

 

Palpatine as a senator

Qui gon Jinn

Padme

Jedi order and how it works

Coruscant

Podracing

Darth Maul

Trade federation and it's characters

Senate politics

Naboo

Backstory of Anaking C3PO and R2D2

Midiclorians

Palpatines rise to power

Discovery of the choosen one

Valorum

Shmi Skywalker

How the force created Anakin

How Anaking becomes a padawan

Battle of naboo

Jedi council

 

And much more backstories and lore etc etc.But i'm sure you could have thought of all this

Characters and locations are not story. Do you even know what story means? To be honest I thing Star wars would far better if Lucas would have started with Attack of the Clones and ignored The Phantom Manace entirely. That Movie has no good stotry and it is not even told well. I am not just talking about how disappointing it was to wait many years to get a new Star wars movie and then just get that, no that movie was just bad. The only thing that was good about it was the soundtrack, but John Williams knows what he is doing while Lucas is not.

 

Okay let us face the story. Who is the protagonist of that story, is it Qui Gun Jinn who is mostly just there but does not much, is it Obi-Wan who is not always around or is it Anakin who we meet quite late into the movie? To which of them are we supposed to relate? And that problem that the movie feels like patchwork is continued in many other aspects as well. We get a pod race scene because Lucas thought having something like that would be great like it was in Ben Hur, but he got it wrong.

 

I would say the original A New Hope has one of the best pacings a movie can have, even after all those years it feels strong. The Phantom Manace on the other hand has one of the worst I have seen.

 

The end with four conflicts at the same time was just too much, many people I know thought that 3 in Return of the Jedi was already to much, but 4 killed it... that's why Attack of the clones didn't continued that with adding another conflict like all the Star Wars movies had to that point.

 

There are interviews out there in which you can see that Lucas was not really happy with The Phantom Manace, but it was too late to start over again.

 

Really how can you think that The Phantom Manace had anything near a decent story, almost every idea in that movie is stolen from other stories (just like A New Hope was, but there it worked what Lucas did with it). Man The first Trailer for Phantom Manace had a better pacing that the finished movie.

 

So, in conclusion I think The Phantom Manace is one of the worst stories ever told, and everyone can surely tell better storeis. The only thing is that the soundtrack is awesome and the lightsaber duel at the end looks not to bad (sadly it misses what the duels in the original trilogy had: the psychological struggle that the character had there).

 

I think Revenge of the Sith was okay, maybe even equally good as Return of the Jedi, but nobody can tell me that the Phantom Manace was good in whatever way or form, especially the story was crap there!