NoTomorrow Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Just a quick question, since i haven't yet played a pyro powertech. what is the source of their most burst damage they can do? Is it basically 90% armor reduction ignoring crit railshot? Edited May 21, 2012 by NoTomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 For sustained damage, the top 3 abilities: Flame Burst CGC Railshot For Burst Railshot TD Practically all our abilities are Instant cast For both sustained and burst, and since Railshot/PPA is the main mechanism of a Pyro, armor reducing talents are a must have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 There are basically 2 pyrotech builds. One that uses Thermal Detonator, and one that trades Thermal Detonator for an increase to Aim and "flame damage" Here are the burst rotations you're most likely to see. The damage numbers I've listed are estimated. If it's someone without any PvP gear the numbers are obviously much higher. Also keep in mind that this is just burst, a lot of this stuff will be on CD after being used. 8/8/25 spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsMZfhrbzGhM.1 -- Sustained is better due to improved heat management but some burst is sacrificed PvP Adrenal (Pre-Fight start) Surge/Crit Relic (Pre-Fight start) Explosive Fuel (Pre-Fight start) Thermal Sensor Override (Pre-Fight start) Incindiary Missile - About 1k initial damage Rail Shot - 4.2k crit Rocket Punch (If no proc to refresh CD on Rail Shot hits, then use Flameburst until proc) - 2k crit Rail Shot - 4.2k crit Flame Burst - 1.8k crit In total around 13k damage if everything crits (which it won't) 7/3/31 spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMbZ0cZfhrbdGhMs.1 -- Burst is better, but sustained is worse due to tougher heat management PvP Adrenal (Pre-Fight start) Surge/Crit Relic (Pre-Fight start) Explosive Fuel (Pre-Fight start) Incindiary Missile - About 800 initial crit damage Thermal Detonator Rail Shot - 3.7k crit Rocket Punch (If no proc to refresh CD on Rail Shot, then use Flameburst until proc) - 1.8k crit + 5k crit from TD Rail Shot - 3.7k crit Flame Burst - 1k crit In total around 16k damage if everything crits (which it won't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 ... 8/8/25 spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsMZfhrbzGhM.1 -- Sustained is better due to improved heat management but some burst is sacrificed Can you explain how this spec allows you to manage your heat better than x / 10-x / 31, what skills are causing this to be better at managing heat over time? The only thing I see is that this is better sustained damage due to a higher Aim stat and 6% more damage per FB. I would also argue that this is much close sustained damage than you think due to the crit damage talent on TD. I would not run this spec in PVP unless I wanted to get laughed at by healers who are healing through my burst. 7/3/31 spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMbZ0cZfhrbdGhMs.1 -- Burst is better, but sustained is worse due to tougher heat management What about the high tech/fire crit version of the same spec? The end result is about the same as 7/3/31 but chain crits are much more likely, which, as we all know, leads to more "nerf PTs" posts and healer tears in warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Can you explain how this spec allows you to manage your heat better than x / 10-x / 31, what skills are causing this to be better at managing heat over time? The only thing I see is that this is better sustained damage due to a higher Aim stat and 6% more damage per FB. I would also argue that this is much close sustained damage than you think due to the crit damage talent on TD. I would not run this spec in PVP unless I wanted to get laughed at by healers who are healing through my burst. What about the high tech/fire crit version of the same spec? The end result is about the same as 7/3/31 but chain crits are much more likely, which, as we all know, leads to more "nerf PTs" posts and healer tears in warzones. There are a few different variations of each spec, I didn't go into detail on each one since the post wasn't really about the different specs. I personally don't use either spec, but the two I listed gives a general idea. The heat management is better on the non-31 pt. ability since it doesn't revolve around TD, which is a heat hog. If TD alone made the target be considered "burning" I'd be much more in favor of the 31 pt. spec's heat management. As it is you have to either also cast IM in addition to TM before using a rail shot, or you need to hit flame burst which may waste your free rail shot proc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 ... The heat management is better on the non-31 pt. ability since it doesn't revolve around TD, which is a heat hog. If TD alone made the target be considered "burning" I'd be much more in favor of the 31 pt. spec's heat management. As it is you have to either also cast IM in addition to TM before using a rail shot, or you need to hit flame burst which may waste your free rail shot proc. I'm just going to cut into the middle of your DPS rotation, Ok? Let's pretend that the target is burning already and your proc timer is going (this will happen 45% of the time after you have used FP on a target). Your choices are: Use your Rail proc now. (means you're a baddie and will never kill anything that is being healed) Use another FP (will proc another CGC) (seems like a bad choice if you want to save heat) Use RP (will be on cooldown for next proc attempt)(seems bad again) Use Unload (... I guess?) Rapid Shots(hey, it's 0 heats!) Or Use TD to stack it with the damage from your next Rail Shot. (causes massive panic and yelling in Vent.) The bottom line is this: if your target is not on fire you have not hit it with anything yet and are at 0 heat. You are usually a source of mild frustration to my healers, so I don't want to make it any worse for them, explaining any further to you why you should take TD. Let me just leave you with this team speak conversation excerpt: Malose: What spec is Ninja? Algore: Pyro. Malose: What spec are you? Algore: Pyro. Malose: There is no way he is the same spec as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Assassin Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 procs, DoT's, <30% damage/crit. tbh, my burst is horrible on my VG. i can SS, IP, IP, IP, IP (you get the point...and my RS doesn't refresh... sometimes, RARELY, i get back to back procs...i don't get it. i can 15k burst, or i can 1-3k for 12 seconds until RS refreshes... very frustrating, sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 There are a few different variations of each spec, I didn't go into detail on each one since the post wasn't really about the different specs. I personally don't use either spec, but the two I listed gives a general idea. The heat management is better on the non-31 pt. ability since it doesn't revolve around TD, which is a heat hog. If TD alone made the target be considered "burning" I'd be much more in favor of the 31 pt. spec's heat management. As it is you have to either also cast IM in addition to TM before using a rail shot, or you need to hit flame burst which may waste your free rail shot proc. I dont agree that a TD spec is more heat intensive than a non TD, and I played Non-TD for a long time before 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Let's pretend that the target is burning already and your proc timer is going (this will happen 45% of the time after you have used FP on a target). Your choices are: It's nice for you that your targets always already have an affect on them before you've attacked that allows you to use your railshot. Unfortunately this isn't always the case for me and sometimes I need to use an ability on the target I'm attacking that allows me to use my railshot on them. I think you may be doing the community a dis-service by offering "advice". The general consensus on our server is that you're an okay dps while you have 2 pocket healers keeping you alive and that you're almost pug-bad when solo queuing. Edited May 21, 2012 by ZeusThunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 It's nice for you that your targets always already have an affect on them before you've attacked that allows you to use your railshot. Unfortunately this isn't always the case for me and sometimes I need to use an ability on the target I'm attacking that allows me to use my railshot on them. I think you may be doing the community a dis-service by offering "advice". The general consensus on our server is that you're an okay dps while you have 2 pocket healers keeping you alive and that you're almost pug-bad when solo queuing. Being obsessed with getting a railshot out without having it be a PPA proc, is really a waste of focus. Only as an opener do I try get back to back RS, other than that it is really not worth thinking too much about. But I can see how you would be constantly trying to maximize every opportunity of a non-proc RS because your dont have TD. I just dont think it is an efficient route to take in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnAntilles Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 People really need to stop talking about this 30pt Pyrotech build without TD like its viable, because it's just not, no matter how you try to supermath us to death. I don't care if you think you "have no problem killing healers without TD", your deff. not fighting the best healers your server has to offer than. By not taking TD, you are more or less cutting a 3k+ spike off of every single one of your burst rotations. Even if, by some chance, some PERFECT rotation allows you to net all that dmg back on top of the other skills you are using, healers are going to laugh at you, simply because none of your "burst rotations" are going to hit nearly as hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 People really need to stop talking about this 30pt Pyrotech build without TD like its viable, because it's just not, no matter how you try to supermath us to death. I don't care if you think you "have no problem killing healers without TD", your deff. not fighting the best healers your server has to offer than. By not taking TD, you are more or less cutting a 3k+ spike off of every single one of your burst rotations. Even if, by some chance, some PERFECT rotation allows you to net all that dmg back on top of the other skills you are using, healers are going to laugh at you, simply because none of your "burst rotations" are going to hit nearly as hard. I think people are being too dramatic about this. Some people just prefer the 3 rail shot burst over the TD burst. They are both viable, it's not as if one is a super noob spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Thanks for the amazing replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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