Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[XPredatorHunterX]

IMO yes it should be in game.

 

How is it not fact that a DPS meter would help? How can you argue against this? I do not need "scientific data" to prove something that is obvious.

 

You will just try to pick apart my words and say whatever you can. It is the common mentality in every post where people are against recording data and trying to be a better player. I understand you are scared of being bad, but you can use that meter to become good.

 

You don't like it when someone does the same thing to you that you have been doing to others. Its ok if you get mad at others for not agreeing with you. Your just being real Brah.

[Antifaith]

Turn off your targeting computer.

 

 

If you wanted top end competitive raiding, wouldn't the bad*****es that could do the content sans meters be the top end competitive raiders?

 

Thought i might get a reply like this. You're basing your answer on a misunderstanding of recount as i thought some would.

I'm not really interested in dps. I have raided in world top 100 guilds. No i dont think im any better than anyone else for it but just to give you some background on my answer. Damage/dps ect is handy to have sure, overall raid dps more important , knowing we need x amount of dps over y period and having the " on the spot" diagnostics to help with that. Damage spikes required by the raid , external cd's required and when , internal cd's required and when , what kind of damage is comming in, how it can be mitigated , when its comming in , who's taking it, who's rescorcing it off, basicly all kinds of stuff that is NOT the " oh you did 32k dps woo!" BS that most ppl think its used for.

 

I am tlaking about the people that do it first, the people that do it before people like you go to youtube /tankspot/whatever to find out how to do it. Yes there are parse sites, no the information is not instantaniously avilable.

[Remidi]

Civilized people manage to discuss properly even tho they hate each other. And you know what? Such discussions are productive instead of resulting in a nerdrage like yours. If you are 32, you should know how to talk to discuss with people politely.

 

It. Is. A. Discussion.

Not your living room.

 

You won't accept the opinion of anyone else anyway, so why bother?

 

I have np accepting other opinions. I have yet to read one opinion where the person says no and they have a valid argument as such. All I see are people worried about "elitist". This is not a valid argument. There will be jerks no matter what.

[XPredatorHunterX]

are you trying to say it is not a fact that a recording tool to measure dps would not help a dps class do better dps?

 

for the third time i said both sides have merit!

[QuimboQuambo]

There was different mmos before wow, but that doesnt mean raiding was difficult. When the difficulty of the fight was determined by either a) whether you were a bard or b) how many clerics you had to spam one button every 10 seconds and c) determining who was going to eat the one shot,

 

Raiding was VERY difficult, because it was about the people raiding, not the numbers.

It was about people talking (writing) to each other in a polite, constructive manner. You noticed if someone did not play their role well because YOU played the game, not a program.

 

I challenge you to prove to me that the fight is difficult.

 

I challenge you to prove that it was the same... Now what? What a strange reasoning.

[PsyloSatan]

Civilized people manage to discuss properly even tho they hate each other. And you know what? Such discussions are productive instead of resulting in a nerdrage like yours. If you are 32, you should know how to talk to discuss with people politely.

 

It. Is. A. Discussion.

Not your living room.

 

You won't accept the opinion of anyone else anyway, so why bother?

 

I thought civilized people ***** and murdered entire cultures and called them savages to make it seem ok in their head.

[Remidi]

You don't like it when someone does the same thing to you that you have been doing to others. Its ok if you get mad at others for not agreeing with you. Your just being real Brah.

 

What? I was just mad at the one guy who said meters are bad and that to record DPS we should need a second computer.

 

Its quite the opposite. You do not like my opinion so you are trying to turn it into something else.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi

[Bovronius]

What - how? How can you be forced to play with people?

If someone says "Looking for someone for X" and you see that they use the recount then just dont join that group and look for a group which doesnt want to use it. The guy who's in favour of the recount just does the same.

I'm thinking of a flag for the character (similiar how you can flag yourself for RP). And when you look at the char you'll see if he is in favour / against / doesnt care about recount.

 

And since both sides here claim to have superior (or at least equal) percentages of the playerbase on their side you probably will not have to wait very long to find a group which does what you want to do and is having the same opinion as you have.

 

I just dont understand you people sometimes. If I hate a certain kind of behaviour in some people I will try to avoid those people. Ignoring that behaviour doesnt change them - they're still idiots and I dont want to have anything to do with them. So giving me an option to see if they're idiots (from my pov) via something like a flag seems perfect.

 

You are right.. You are never "forced" to play with people. Sometimes if you want to get to get stuff done in a reasonable amount of time, then yes, sometimes (and quite often for a large portion of the player base) you have to.

 

Something like just having a DPS meter, isn't a flag for if someone is an idiot or not (if they have it in game, most will use it, and the game will be built around it). Scrubs will have it to brag about how well they did their 4 button rotation, and good players will have it for min/maxing everything out. Just them having it doesn't tell me much, till I've already gotten into the thick of the dungeon and they are spamming numbers after every pull.

[Tealamek]

 

Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

 

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

 

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

 

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

 

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

 

With Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.

 

 

Without Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)

-

EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

 

EDIT UPDATE:

-

During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

 

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!

 

I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly.

 

Wow, this sounds like the elitist type attitude that I have been talking about in many threads on this site. Thanks for the example.

 

I love how you made the example fit your need. How about pointimg out how the damage meters are used to force players to min/max, in other words play your style of game. Hey elitist, why don't you take your min/maxing else where and stop trying to force it on others.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Tealamek

[XPredatorHunterX]

The object here is to stop complaining or for that matter force feeding an opinion. It was made very clear to me from some very influential people don't complain about something unless you have a solution. Solution being said, it would have to be one that makes all parties happy. To a point.

[QuimboQuambo]

I have np accepting other opinions. I have yet to read one opinion where the person says no and they have a valid argument as such. All I see are people worried about "elitist". This is not a valid argument. There will be jerks no matter what.

 

Why are you trying to contradict everyone then? You answer every single post saying "no" with the same arguments over and over. And it's not even you who openend up the thead.

[Remidi]

Wow, this sounds like and elitist type attitude that I have been talking about in many threads on this site. Thanks for the example.

 

I love how you made the example fit your need. How about pointimg out how the damage meters are used to force players to min/max, in other words play your style of game. Hey elitist, why don't you take your min/maxing else where and stop trying to force it on others.

 

How is this in ANY WAY elitist? So if a person wants to be good and do the best they can they are an "elitist" and should be shunned?

Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi

[XPredatorHunterX]

What? I was just mad at the one guy who said meters are bad and that to record DPS we should need a second computer.

 

Its quite the opposite. You do not like my opinion so you are trying to turn it into something else.

 

my mistake i thought it was directed to my comment

[Remidi]

my mistake i thought it was directed to my comment

 

Oh no sir. Sorry about the confusion. The only reason I chimed in on this thread was because of that. I mean really what kind of statement is that. Then the second I mentioned it the WoW-bashers started.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi

[PsyloSatan]

Wow, this sounds like and elitist type attitude that I have been talking about in many threads on this site. Thanks for the example.

 

I love how you made the example fit your need. How about pointimg out how the damage meters are used to force players to min/max, in other words play your style of game. Hey elitist, why don't you take your min/maxing else where and stop trying to force it on others.

 

Why dont you point out that you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no psychology in recount so **** about it already. The crappy people you raid with that are rude and obnoxious have no bearing on recount you fool. Recount reorganizes your combat log so it is easier to read. THAT IS ALL!

 

 

THE COMBAT LOG IS WHAT DETERMINES COOKIE CUTTER SPECS!!!!!!!!!! RECOUNT JUST MAKES IT EASIER TO READ!!!!!

 

I dont know how much more clearly it can be said. Dont blame software and the poeple that do hard work to make it for us because of some idiot. Make that idiot accountable for his own actions.

[Jest]

No, I would not like Recount.

 

Recount shifts the focus of Raids to DPS and HPS rather than actually paying attention to the mechanics of the fight. I've seen plenty of situations where someone will race to get their DPS the highest, then die because they weren't paying attention to the mechanics.

 

The ONLY time DPS matters is in a mechanic that includes a race against a clock (enrage timer) and even then, Recount won't show you how to Spec your Character or how to Improve your Rotations. That information comes from Spreadsheeting and Parsing the logs for actual Damage Per Skill.

 

It really only serves to eliminate players based on one aspect of their performance. That's not an ideal that I'd like to see implemented in this game.

[Remidi]

Why are you trying to contradict everyone then? You answer every single post saying "no" with the same arguments over and over. And it's not even you who openend up the thead.

 

What?

 

/facepalm

 

Try using a different excuse than "ELITISM"

[XPredatorHunterX]

Ya know all of this matters to me not a soon as 8:00 cst comes tomorrow. I'm 30/7 and going to be playing the game, living the dream instead of wondering about what ifs.

[Remidi]

No, I would not like Recount.

 

Recount shifts the focus of Raids to DPS and HPS rather than actually paying attention to the mechanics of the fight. I've seen plenty of situations where someone will race to get their DPS the highest, then die because they weren't paying attention to the mechanics.

 

The ONLY time DPS matters is in a mechanic that includes a race against a clock (enrage timer) and even then, Recount won't show you how to Spec your Character or how to Improve your Rotations. That information comes from Spreadsheeting and Parsing the logs for actual Damage Per Skill.

 

It really only serves to eliminate players based on one aspect of their performance. That's not an ideal that I'd like to see implemented in this game.

 

Good point. Most of us that use said meters do not ignore mechanics while staring at meters though. Sadly those same people would most likely get hit by the mechanic without having the meter there.

 

Do I glance at it? Yes because its in my UI and easy to see. Have I ever died by looking at it? No.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi

[PsyloSatan]

No, I would not like Recount.

 

Recount shifts the focus of Raids to DPS and HPS rather than actually paying attention to the mechanics of the fight. I've seen plenty of situations where someone will race to get their DPS the highest, then die because they weren't paying attention to the mechanics.

 

The ONLY time DPS matters is in a mechanic that includes a race against a clock (enrage timer) and even then, Recount won't show you how to Spec your Character or how to Improve your Rotations. That information comes from Spreadsheeting and Parsing the logs for actual Damage Per Skill.

 

It really only serves to eliminate players based on one aspect of their performance. That's not an ideal that I'd like to see implemented in this game.

 

Players that fail because they are reading an addon are going to fail without the addon. The addon is not wired into their brain forcing them to look, they are voluntarily failing on their own. Recount has nothing to do with tier failure other than it is an object based in reality that a baddie is focusing on.

[Ralgur]

I really couldn't care less about damage meters. I keep my epeen in my pants.

[XPredatorHunterX]

No, I would not like Recount.

 

Recount shifts the focus of Raids to DPS and HPS rather than actually paying attention to the mechanics of the fight. I've seen plenty of situations where someone will race to get their DPS the highest, then die because they weren't paying attention to the mechanics.

 

The ONLY time DPS matters is in a mechanic that includes a race against a clock (enrage timer) and even then, Recount won't show you how to Spec your Character or how to Improve your Rotations. That information comes from Spreadsheeting and Parsing the logs for actual Damage Per Skill.

 

It really only serves to eliminate players based on one aspect of their performance. That's not an ideal that I'd like to see implemented in this game.

 

More advanced boss fights will have phases, Said phases will encompass DPS race to burn Boss/Adds down.

Must be late his posts words blurred together I just repeated the same thing you said.

Edited December 14, 2011 by XPredatorHunterX

[Goti]

IMO if bioware makes it, supports it(patchs it etc) iam good with add-on's

 

fan made... can get hacked, can be poorly supported and so on

[Israel]

dang quoted the wrong person. Edited December 14, 2011 by Israel

[Zocat]

You are right.. You are never "forced" to play with people. Sometimes if you want to get to get stuff done in a reasonable amount of time, then yes, sometimes (and quite often for a large portion of the player base) you have to.

 

Something like just having a DPS meter, isn't a flag for if someone is an idiot or not (if they have it in game, most will use it, and the game will be built around it). Scrubs will have it to brag about how well they did their 4 button rotation, and good players will have it for min/maxing everything out. Just them having it doesn't tell me much, till I've already gotten into the thick of the dungeon and they are spamming numbers after every pull.

 

Yeah sure - I think I mispoke. When I mentioned "idiots" I wasnt thinking of DPS meters but other stuff (actually RL behaviour but doesnt really matter).

 

I think "reasonable amount of time" also differs in our definition I'll gladly wait 30mins for a group which I enjoy playing with instead of doing it with people who I find annoying. And if I'm in the middle of the dungeon and someone is annoying me I'll try to figure out if he is annoying others or if I'm the only offended. And depending on the outcome either he leaves or I leave.

The game is supposed to be fun for me. And I will probably will get it done sooner or later (again both sides claim to have equal numbers supporting them^^).

I mean it's similiar to the PvE vs PvP debate. People just realized their playstyles dont mix. It's not like the PvPer is an idiot nor is the PvE loving player an idiot. So why not come to the same conclusion? It's just a different preference, so why not give players what they want and give them an option to see if their preferences dont fit?

Again - this game will have enough players to be picky about those who you play with