tolaf Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 My faith in Bioware is definately shaken, SWTOR is not the game i expected. Before fanboys start flaming me saying that BW did tell me what kind of game this was i will say this. They did not give us enough facts about the game. They told me i could make my own choices in an immersive story, that is true but i assumed those choices would affect the games story, in the long run they don't. They told me i could make my character, i thought that means i would have more freedom with his story, again i did not expect that they ment i could do the same story as everyone else but the dialogue was slightly different. They told me i could travel the galaxy, what i didn't know was that the order in which i go to planets has already been determined by the linear story-line. They talked about cool spacecombat, yeah i saw the videos but i thought the videos were a taste of whats to come, not the real thing. In the end, i'm not really the one who hyped up SWTOR, i just made logical assumptions based on the limited information they gave me. BioWare got me hyped up by talking about the games and talking about awesome things that were never in the game. It's like when you see the coolest commercials ever for a movie, and it's all talking about how it has awesome new stuff great special effects, all the good stuff, but when you see the movie it's nowhere near as good as the commercials made it seem. BW at Austin should have made a few small scale MMOs first to get some experience, with a budget in the hundred millions, this game should have gone to someone who could use that money wisely. The Hero engine has made it impossible for the game to be improved what-so-ever, unfortunatley they are using the hero engine for the Elder Scrolls online. The only reason i play this game is because it's Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msales Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Are you implying that you cannot be intelligent, have knowledge about a subject and still have an objective standpoint of view? I’m suggesting that claiming you are intelligent and have an understanding of the industry then touting that as the bedrock for a statement is probably not the best way to reinforce your argument. Also claiming to be completely objective shows a lack of self-awareness, particularly as objectivity is generally an unemotional standpoint where as trust is an emotional concept. As I said in my post, trust is not a good word to use. Granted I’m being a bit picky here. The bottom line is that genuinely claiming to be intelligent is not a sign of intelligence (it’s a sign of narcissism,) producing a well-supported argument would have been a better course of action and much less dismissive of the OP. Edited May 21, 2012 by msales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHazanko Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 On the money. and yes, Tera is Terable. I usually don’t write articles, because our very own Canadian (Aaron Frede) does a fantastic job spearheading our editorial operations in the TOR-Talk Community. I can confidently say he would be decked out in full War-Hero gear if he could be rewarded by SW:TOR items. But on the very rare occasions I do feel compelled to share a few words expressing my excitement, ideas, or opinions. Just a heads up, this article is an opinionated one. Rewinding time a little bit, on May 7th 2012 we found out that EA made over $1.2 Billion in “digital revenue” for their fourth fiscal quarter. Digital revenue can be classified as games sold via Origin, iTunes (E.g. Angry Birds), DLC, etc. That’s an astounding amount of money. Full game downloads we’re up 76% 2011-2012 thanks to titles like Star Wars: The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3. This is great news for our three companies (EA, LucasArts, and BioWare) developing and publishing our Star Wars: The Old Republic; but good things never last and sure enough the bad news hit. John Riccitiello (Electronic Arts Executive) It has been about a week since the most recent EA Conference Call, a meeting that had mixed controversy. EA’s top executive John Riccitiello made the following statement which caused a little animosity with players in the SW:TOR Community. The Old Republic is in EA’s top 10 franchises in terms of profitability, “but it’s not in our top five”. “So it’s a business contributor, while important, is not as important as Medal of Honor or Battlefield or FIFA or Madden or The Sims or SimCity, but it’s more important than Tiger Woods PGA Golf.” “So while I understand there’s an enormous amount of interest, I don’t know that it warrants as much as what we’re seeing right now. But we love the franchise, we’re going to grow the franchise and just like we want to see Tiger Woods Golf grow or SSX grow, or Madden for that matter, we’re going to drive this one for growth.” You don’t need to take “Business 101” to know that the statement above was not “PR-smart” and to a point, un-professional. The fact that SW:TOR’s publisher came out and told the masses they were prioritizing their games is un-wise, especially after taking the WIN for being voted the “Worst Company In America of 2012“ The Consumerist. I’m sorry, but I still can’t get over how Medal of Honor is above SW:TOR in priority; I can hardly tolerate Battlefield 3…but Medal of Honor? Regardless, there’s over 1 million players paying $15 a month for Star Wars: The Old Republic and to hear that your game isn’t at the top of the priority list and demeaned by games like Medal of Honor is irritating. I don’t mean to beat up on Medal of Honor, but I’m just trying to stress the principle of this whole controversy. EA never should’ve said or inferred that some of their games are more important then others… In that same conference call we also learned that the SW:TOR player base had a large drop from 1.7 million to 1.3 million players. Keep in mind these numbers are “active” player accounts. Active accounts are not only subscribed accounts but also weekend trial accounts; I wonder what that new number would be if BioWare didn’t count those weekend trial accounts to the final roster? The statement shown below was made as an explanation to the 400,000 player decline in Star Wars: The Old Republic. EA’s Frank Gibeua said… “When we launched the product back in December, it was an event launch. We brought in a lot of users, and with a brand like Star Wars, it reaches out much past the hardcore MMO fan base into the broader market. And as the service evolves from here, what we’re seeing is that some of the initial casual customers have gone through a billing cycle and decided not to subscribe to the game.” I agree with this statement to a point. There were a lot of gamers who never touched an MMORPG ever. They went out and purchased SW:TOR because they were fans of Star Wars or other BioWare games. But that’s solely not the reason for this decline and I understand that Mr. Gibeua was trying to put a positive spin on this negative news. But sadly I think this is only the calm before the storm. I am no market analyst, but as a gamer who has experienced so many MMOs and seen competitive trends impact the games I love, I really think the number of subscriptions are going to continue to decline for SW:TOR if BioWare doesn’t make a radical change. Guild Wars II and World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria are on the horizon. Tera, or as I like to call it: Tera-ble, just launched and now we have this Elder Scrolls MMO, Titan (Unannounced Blizzard Project), and so much more MMORPG competition coming out. I’m nervous for TOR and it stinks because this game has so much potential! These past two months have been rough on our guild community and server, watching “The Exodus” of players leave the game/guild because of the absent implementation of ranked warzones was devastating. Another blow to the PvP in TOR, strike #2 for some, following strike #1(Ilum). To make matters worse, servers won’t merge, because there is a reluctance to confront PR controversy in the MMO industry. Which in the short-term may seem like the “smart” decision to make, but in the long-term it won’t be. Server transfers are going to become available this summer, but it’s not going to solve the universal population issues in Star Wars: The Old Republic, in fact it may get worse because many guilds want to transfer as a whole. Ilum Failure weeks after launch. Lines of players exploiting and kill-swapping. From what we’ve “seen” **CAUTION MAJOR SPOILERS** the future of SW:TOR is primarily focused on PvE-related content, like more flashpoints and operations. This information cannot be confirmed, but what was “data-mined” can hint to what is coming in the future. As a player who wants SW:TOR to not just succeed, but to also to be “The” MMORPG of choice, I hope BioWare innovates more. Shown below is a few brief ideas on how BioWare can prepare for this storm! Currently Open-World PvP is absent in the game, there’s little to no incentive to do it. Strategic objectives can be placed on many other planets besides Ilum, providing buffs, bonuses, or rewards for PvP dailies. Players who focus mainly on PvP will have a reason to come back to SW:TOR, rather then the W vs.W vs.W. Also when is Ilum set to return? It’s been in limbo for nearly two months. Add more mini-games! Holy smokes, that was huge for SW:TOR. A lot of the players in the community we’re upset with how Space Combat was implemented, but a lof of players we’re relieved to take a break from their questing and earn some awesome looking social items. Swoop racing, Pazaak (Which I believe BioWare has plans for), and so many other unique features can be added to enrich the Star Wars experience and go “against the grain” with the typical MMO experience. World of Warcraft is implementing Pokemon to compete with BioWare’s space combat. They’re two totally different game mechanics, but they are foreign to MMORPG gameplay, which makes them enjoyable to the playerbase. General upgrades on the GTN (Galactic Trade Network) and Guild Systems are needed. The guild interface and GTN options are so basic and arguably under the Triple AAA MMORPG standard that competing MMOs have set. Revise, innovate, and add to these utility gameplay aspects that have an incredible impact on the player communities and game. In conclusion, the calm before the storm has passed, but the next few EA earnings calls are going to be interesting. The new competition is so near and there’s going to be a lot of different options for a lot of PvP players to choose from. Will Star Wars: The Old Republic be able to stay the course? Or will they continue to decline? Only time will tell. What’s your take on the current state of Star Wars: The Old Republic? Do you agree with the author’s perspective? Tell us what you think. For those of you who don't want to click the link you can read it all right there, and thank you islander for agreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msales Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I can't remember the last time I enjoyed an MMO as much as this one. My major complaint is the behavior of some players here on the forums. I thoroughly enjoyed NWN, KOTOR, and DAO. I opted out of the sequels, after reading reviews, except I tried NWN2 but could not complete it (yes, I know NWN2 and KOTOR2 were not developed by Bioware). I will definitely try BioWare again, but only if the game setting appeals to me (I never got into Mass Effect, for some reason). Sorry to go off topic but if you see Mass Effect cheap, I’d recommend giving it a try at least. It’s not as stats heavy as a lot of people (including myself to some degree) would like but the story and character choice/development is incredibly good. If you like the way SWTOR hands conversations you’ll love the way ME does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Sorry to go off topic but if you see Mass Effect cheap, I’d recommend giving it a try at least. It’s not as stats heavy as a lot of people (including myself to some degree) would like but the story and character choice/development is incredibly good. If you like the way SWTOR hands conversations you’ll love the way ME does. Just don't play the 3rd one, it kills the whole franchise for you. I can't even play the other two now. Edited May 21, 2012 by Tuscad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I judge each game on a per/game basis. However I reserve the right to outright banish any Activision game from my PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Sorry to go off topic but if you see Mass Effect cheap, I’d recommend giving it a try at least. It’s not as stats heavy as a lot of people (including myself to some degree) would like but the story and character choice/development is incredibly good. If you like the way SWTOR hands conversations you’ll love the way ME does. I actually did buy it real cheap on some 50% off sale and installed it. I started playing it just before SWTOR came out, but couldn't get into it then. I will try it again when I get tired of SWTOR, but that hasn't happened yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If you trust anyone that is out to make money off of you... You. Are. An. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandraoi Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is your perspective, from your point of view. Your personal assumptions and desires. I can respect your right to your opinion, but I find your analyses to be silly. I'm enjoying the game very much. It is new. There are expectations for the future, as there always are in a new MMORPG. However, "big game feel", whatever that is suppose to mean, is not even on my priority list. LOL Hurt feelings or trust, are not even within the realm of consideration. I'm not even sure that someone would come forth with such an odd statement. For the price of a pizza and a beer (estimated enjoyment time of 1 hours), we have unlimited access to this game. Not sure where such issues as betrayal and damaged feelings would enter into that.....but then again, I see it as a game to be enjoyed for a number of hours per week, not an extension of my life. ;p Go for the beer and pizza they will provide more enjoyment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Anyone can earn back my trust, bioware lost all of it when they relesed a AAA mmo with no combat window and have not ne a thing to try to earn it back yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHazanko Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If you trust anyone that is out to make money off of you... You. Are. An. Idiot. Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Go for the beer and pizza they will provide more enjoyment! I would have agreed in the past, but my Pizza Hut has bad tasting Pizza now because they cut corners when cooking it. (I used to work there so I know). Still got Beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I didn't start out with unrealistic expectations, and took seriously BioWare's caveats of "all features dependent on testing" (which was also said for Ranked Warzones). Thus, I don't feel "lied to", nor do I feel any perceived, illusionary "trust" was broken. *shrugs* To each their own, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolaf Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 My trust in BioWare: 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petergriffin Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I don't like to tread on people's right to free speech, but I do notice that there is a large percentage of the players of SWTOR that expect far too much right out of the gate. The only problems I ever saw with SWTOR (and I really have no loyalties to any game company at this point) were during the closed beta and first few days after launch with the lack of servers to accommodate the large game population. Aside from that I only ever have had one qualm, and that is that there is no place to select your audio output device within the audio options in-game (like say LoTRO). Having to go through Windows to change stuff was annoying, but as I said this is minor. High res textures could come along and be great but still someone would gripe and complain. Some of the best PvP could be implemented and yet people would still be complaining about how it's "nothing like WoW." If you want to play WoW, go do it. It's a fun game as long as you play it rather than live it. Have you taken note that SWTOR is inherently more PvE based ever since before the closed beta began? Typically the PvP aspects in games that focus more on story, quests, and character development as you progress through various areas are not the tip top, best of the best. That's the point, they're not focusing on it because the majority of the player base is more concerned with keeping the enjoyment in the game, customizing, and living their own Star Wars saga. Complain if you like, but at least complain about the things that are worth complaining about. And noone cares how other games do it....this is SWTOR. If SWTOR became like WoW I have a feeling that a lot of people would stop playing for a multitude of reasons. Enjoy the game people, it's already fantastic and it's not even a year old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I’m suggesting that claiming you have are intelligent and have an understanding of the industry then touting that as the bedrock for a statement is probably not the best way to reinforce your argument. Also claiming to be completely objective shows a lack of self-awareness, particularly as objectivity is generally an unemotional standpoint where as trust is an emotional concept. As I said in my post, trust is not a good word to use. Granted I’m being a bit picky here. The bottom line is that genuinely claiming to be intelligent is not a sign of intelligence (it’s a sign of narcissism,) producing a well-supported argument would have been a better course of action and much less dismissive of the OP. I think that it was less of an argument per se and more leaning towards having a little bash at those screaming at BW to fix everything right now. I claim with assertiveness that I have a high fluid intelligence (but that's backed by a high score in Ravens Matrices and having Aspergers Syndrome), but I'm not that very objective. I am biased against anyone who opposes me . I would still presume that it would be possible, if not correct to to state that you are an objective person if you simply believe yourself to fall under the definition of being an objective, one who is always rational, logical, critical to an extent where to only gather information, and one who listens? Not too sure on the true definition, this is what I think it entails, regardless of whether I am correct on the definition I would like my point to remain open. Ah, 1 who is open minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolaf Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I don't like to tread on people's right to free speech, but I do notice that there is a large percentage of the players of SWTOR that expect far too much right out of the gate. The only problems I ever saw with SWTOR (and I really have no loyalties to any game company at this point) were during the closed beta and first few days after launch with the lack of servers to accommodate the large game population. Aside from that I only ever have had one qualm, and that is that there is no place to select your audio output device within the audio options in-game (like say LoTRO). Having to go through Windows to change stuff was annoying, but as I said this is minor. High res textures could come along and be great but still someone would gripe and complain. Some of the best PvP could be implemented and yet people would still be complaining about how it's "nothing like WoW." If you want to play WoW, go do it. It's a fun game as long as you play it rather than live it. Have you taken note that SWTOR is inherently more PvE based ever since before the closed beta began? Typically the PvP aspects in games that focus more on story, quests, and character development as you progress through various areas are not the tip top, best of the best. That's the point, they're not focusing on it because the majority of the player base is more concerned with keeping the enjoyment in the game, customizing, and living their own Star Wars saga. Complain if you like, but at least complain about the things that are worth complaining about. And noone cares how other games do it....this is SWTOR. If SWTOR became like WoW I have a feeling that a lot of people would stop playing for a multitude of reasons. Enjoy the game people, it's already fantastic and it's not even a year old! You're right, SWTOR is an Ok game. The problem is that SWTOR is an OK game and not the ground-breaking 200million dollar game we were promised. Did we over-hype the game? yes a little, but BW over-hyped the game way more then we did. They promised us the MMO equivalent to the second coming of Jesus, and to top it off they only gave us limited information about the game, always promising new awesome things that they never gave us. But that is just my thoughts on the subject, they are not fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Indeed Slighty. Trusting them to deliver quality products and personal trust differ I suppose. Neither of which I have for Bioware sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeSaar Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I’m suggesting that claiming you are intelligent and have an understanding of the industry then touting that as the bedrock for a statement is probably not the best way to reinforce your argument. Also claiming to be completely objective shows a lack of self-awareness, particularly as objectivity is generally an unemotional standpoint where as trust is an emotional concept. As I said in my post, trust is not a good word to use. Granted I’m being a bit picky here. The bottom line is that genuinely claiming to be intelligent is not a sign of intelligence (it’s a sign of narcissism,) producing a well-supported argument would have been a better course of action and much less dismissive of the OP. QFT This +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeSaar Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I think that it was less of an argument per se and more leaning towards having a little bash at those screaming at BW to fix everything right now. I claim with assertiveness that I have a high fluid intelligence (but that's backed by a high score in Ravens Matrices and having Aspergers Syndrome), but I'm not that very objective. I am biased against anyone who opposes me . I would still presume that it would be possible, if not correct to to state that you are an objective person if you simply believe yourself to fall under the definition of being an objective, one who is always rational, logical, critical to an extent where to only gather information, and one who listens? Not too sure on the true definition, this is what I think it entails, regardless of whether I am correct on the definition I would like my point to remain open. Ah, 1 who is open minded. Objective: (in the context you are using it) expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations <objective art> <an objective history of the war> <an objective judgment> Consider This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCynic Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Anything related to an MMO: NO. Anything related to single player RPGs with cliched stories that are badly written but presented very well: YES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelDranoel Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 ... I never stopped trusting them, otherwise I would not be online playing their game. Nor would I log into a forum belonging to one of their games, because if I did not like their products, I would not waste my time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMunny Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Any game with Daniel Erickson as a lead Dev, hell no. This guy is completely out of touch with his player base and current state of the game. BW, so long old friend. EA, you still suck. Erickson, you are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I came here expecting a wow clone, which SWTOR is, but I was also pleasantly surprised by how well made it was and how good stories it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolaf Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I came here expecting a wow clone, which SWTOR is, but I was also pleasantly surprised by how well made it was and how good stories it has. Problem ismost people did not expect a WoW clone, infact the thought was at one time, almost insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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