Will You Trust Bioware Again?

[Tovox]

If more information is not put out about server transfers this week I will be leaving this game. I have had enough....

[Tovox]

I would rather them take time and implement it correctly and awesome WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN DOING than rushing it out because people want it fast. The reason it's taking long is because they want their bioware quality on it. The LFG tool looks like the best lfg tool in any mmo. Period. So easy to use

 

What is Bioware Quality? cause if you are refering to the cheap work they have put into customer service and MMO game development I'm going to ask you get your head examined.

[xandax]

I "trusted" them until the ME3 issue - the handling of TOR just confirms the issues I have with Bioware about handling ME3.

 

The vague and ..... the apparently often less then honest ..... PR/marketing speak irks me wrong and it's become ever increasingly visible over the last couple of single player games and with TOR.

Bioware 2012 is not the Bioware of 2005 by any measurable standard.

Edited May 21, 2012 by xandax

[evildestroyer]

The day EA bought Bioware was the day i no longer trust them.

[JediZenn]

Its neat how a thread like this can go on for 11-12 pages.

 

But my POSITIVE thread, gets locked on page 2.

 

Guess I'll just avoid posting on the forum at all from now on.

[cloudwalkerrr]

I just think both the Devs and Players have a different vision on the direction they want this game to go. Edited May 21, 2012 by cloudwalkerrr

[Tovox]

I just think both the Devs and Players have a different vision on the direction they want this game to go.

Ya we want it to be #1 and Devs seem to want it in the toilet.

[Darth_Solrac]

"I will admit my trust in them is shaken."

[ThiborF]

I'm okay with them so far. Not thrilled but, okay. Game could have been better both at launch and now but, hopefully they're learning as they go. Some companies that have MMO experience still can't seem to get it mostly right (*cough* FunCom *cough*).

 

But, I'm likely a minority in some aspects in that:

1) I tend to not PvP in MMOs or at least not in an regular or competitive way. I look to the FPS and RTS games in my library for that fix

2) I don't care what anyone outside of my guild has achieved on my server. Down boss X within the first 24hrs of it being the game? Congrats but, I really don't care. Walking around in the best gear or coolest looking? If that makes you happy, great but know that again, I don't care. It's not about being antisocial or not, it's that in MMOs I do not base my enjoyment of the game on the play or accomplishment of anyone outside my guild.

 

I don't play MMOs to be competitive. Hell, I rarely play computer games in general to be competitive. I left that part of me long ago when I used to put my initials PDJ on coin-op machines of the time. My competitive side is sated by the three different dart leagues I play in as well as local tourneys.

 

So yeah, I'm still having fun exploring the different story lines in the game as well as the differences between the advanced classes and how they play. And yeah, I'll cut BW some slack due to it being their first MMO. But, at the end of the day, the same holds true for this game as it does any other for me ... if it's fun, I'll keep playing it. When I cease to have fun, I unsubscribe/stop playing. It's really that simple.

[FeelFlow]

Yes!

 

However the more that I play this game - and I'm still really enjoying it as I'm levelling - you realise that they launched the game without crucial game systems i.e. no LFG, no server transfers, rated PvP and only provided basic guild functionality (where is that guild alliance feature?) etc. etc.

 

True, they added brilliant voice acting and plot - which is absolutely fantastic. But that wasn't quite enough...

 

WoW is the MMO bar - essentially to beat it you have to offer at least all of the game systems that it has which BW & EA manifestly didn't do.

 

I hope that they are hard at work on the game. What they'll need to do is to show a roadmap for it, rapidly add important game systems ASAP, as much bug fixing and quality of life polish to the game as quickly as they can (it is a very buggy game) and of course, new content - lots of it to make up for their failings, here i.e. new planets, new flash points, new operations and battlegrounds.

 

Then around the time of the first expansion, they'll need to re-market the game, say that they've learnt and offer the xpac at a 20% discount (at least) to existing subscribers.

 

Bioware can do it - but they need to be rolling out the above ASAP so that the game is in a really really good state by Xmas and with the first Xpac announced at that time. And even then, I think that they'll need to go back and look at things like the classes, how they play, talent trees etc. (it's all feeling a bit like WoW in 2009 re. the classes and the talent trees.

 

Fingers crossed that the basic architecture of the game allows them to make this change and fast.

 

I'm going to keep on subscribing until I'm bored - and I don't think that will be a good few months yet.

 

Don't disappoint us, BW - we know you can do it

Edited May 21, 2012 by FeelFlow

[Innocente]

Not 'Bioware'.

Not Mythic.

Not EA.

 

None of these guys.

[Sammm]

A man becomes interested in a video game developer

A man falls in love with their games

A man loses trust in the video game developer

A man decides to stop buying their games

 

A man becomes interested in a new video game developer

A man falls in love with their games

A man loses trust in the new video game developer

A man decides to stop buying their games

 

And so on...

 

So, welcome to capitalism?

Edited May 21, 2012 by Sammm

[Redcorn]

First attempt at an MMO with constraints by Lucas and EA. I won't hold SWTOR against BW if it never pans out. Flops happen and we get past them. Looking forward to a Balder's Gate or a new KOTOR!

 

\I do believe that I am about done with the MMORPG paradigm/genre as it is envisioned by developers at this time. I swore off MMORPGs after WoW, and was sucked back in by the promise of SWTOR..

[DarthSoverus]

Honestly, I have no qualms with them. Yeah, there are probably a few things I wish they did better, but I'm not going to complain. I've played City of Heroes for 4 years with its graphics engine, and several other games where they're graphics are far less than SWTOR's. I actually enjoy the stories implemented in to the game. I love each of my characters. As a man who is back in college, has a 6 month old son, and an all-consuming job; I really can't complain when it comes to this game. It's a great play and I can enjoy it whenever I have the free time. I'm not a hardcore gamer anymore like I used to be, devoting all hours of the day to a game because nothing else mattered at the time. So, I say this from my standpoint.

 

Again, yeah, I wish they did some things better, but they can always be fixed. I've seen it in other games and I will see it happen in this one too. Is it because I have a strong love for Star Wars? I do, but that's not the reason. It's because, after having a son, I've learned to have the patience to watch something young develop in to something great. This game is younger than my son is. Yes, some games develop quicker than others. However, they each have their own pace. To answer the question really simply; I never stopped trusting Bioware or LucasArts. So yes, I will definitely trust them again.

[Elhanan]

Bioware earned my trust, and has not lost it yet; am content with this MMO.

[darthmorbous]

This game , due to hero engine and bad, BAD dev team + EA, is already older than other older games.

This hero **** engine will never be able to support Open World PvP as it should be. NEVER.

anyone saying something different had never been on Illum at the times we all know about.

How many oposing faction players did you find, fight while leveling? on a PvP server?

10 would mean a lot in this game.

there is more PvP in the forums lol

[Darth-Malice]

Wont buy a product with the Bioware logo on it anymore. It used to be a seal guaranteeing a certain level of quality and you know you got your moneys worth. Not anymore. Dragon Age 2 was a disappointment. Mass Effect 3 was a money grab. The future isn't looking bright for Bioware. Edited May 21, 2012 by Darth-Malice

[Arkerus]

Actually no, no, and no.

 

If I order steak from the menu and get a cold hamburger patty with wilted lettuce, I may eat it anyway if I am hungry enough. My need for food will be met but certainly not my expectaions. If I am still hungry after the hamburger would I order something else from the menu and keep paying for a while, probably so because my need - hunger - would be met although the quality of the fare would be low.

 

Would I go back to the establishment when they publicized a new menu and believe that it was as advertised? Probably not, at least until I found out what others who had been there thought.

 

The simple truth seems to be that many are not continuing to pay. I don't have any numbers but had come to feel that subs and play time was falling. After the last week or so, I (again with no numbers) feel that the subs and play time are not just falling, they are plummeting like a comet screaming down to earth. I think that there are many people who are not still paying and who are certainly not playing.

 

????? Really? You totally and completely missed the point. I don't even...

 

I don't even know what to say.

 

You can't create an analogy about the need to eat, one time, at a restaurant. That's not even remotely close to what I was talking about. You are talking about the need to eat (one time payment, sustains LIFE) versus what I was trying to make a point about (completely voluntary subscription). Its not at all like what you were trying to describe.

 

If you are trying to tell me that people subscribing to this game (in a market filled with options) is exactly like the need to EAT, then God help us all.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Arkerus

[Deewe]

To anyone,

 

before answering I invite you to read the devs insight of how they managed the game development:

1. Behind the scenes of Star Wars: The Old Republic: throwing people at the problem
   
2. Star Wars: The Old Republic was built to thrive in a WoW world
   

 

Now take into consideration they had 6 years to create SWTOR (1.5 to 2 times a traditional MMO development time frame) and roundly $200 millions (5 x LotRo, 4 x AoC, 3 x RIft budget) to do so.

[LordHazanko]

This game , due to hero engine and bad, BAD dev team + EA, is already older than other older games.

This hero **** engine will never be able to support Open World PvP as it should be. NEVER.

anyone saying something different had never been on Illum at the times we all know about.

How many oposing faction players did you find, fight while leveling? on a PvP server?

10 would mean a lot in this game.

there is more PvP in the forums lol

 

:):):)

[G_Vega]

A lot of us bought this game believing that Bioware would come through with a great game. Plus it was Star Wars. Then we started seeing the warning signs within a few weeks of launch:

 

-No high-res textures

-Realizing that the Hero engine SUX on MMOs

-Too many servers not enough "concurrent population"

-No World PvP

-Individual instanced planets not conducive to a "grand-scale MMO feel"

 

Some of the other warning signs came later, and were bearable although irking:

 

-Taking too long to implement ranked PVP

-Taking too long to implement server transfer

-Taking too long to implement LFG/LFD tool

 

To be fair, a lot of us were patient. "It's only been 1 month" "It's only been 2 months" "It's only been 3 months" and of course, Bioware promised us these things would come.

 

As someone who read and posted on these forums everyday since launch, I know that the above issues have been the key critical issues that really got people passionate. It's now been 6 months, and NONE of the above have been resolved at all. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. We kept waiting, and waiting. And NADA. NONE. Did I emphasize that enough? In half a year, NONE of the major issues that people really really cared about, have been resolved.

 

In an MMO, it's not as simple as, "well at least we got our 6 months of playtime, well worth the money." MMOs don't work like that. We grind and we continually run the same boring content over and over again because of the future promise that we are building something for the long-term. That this will be our character for the next 2-5 years. With the game showing absolutely no progress on the major issues, what is our incentive to continue grinding, if by the time we have all BiS gear and clear all content, the game dies? We grind in the hopes of being best prepared for the next stage of the game, the new content and ranked content.

 

I am seriously disgusted at Bioware right now. My subscription ends at the end of July (I did the 6 month subscription). Next time Bioware releases a game I think I will wait 3 months after reading all the reviews and forums before investing my time and energy into their product.

 

Will you do the same?

 

p.s. The breaking point for me came when I realized that the Hero engine has crippled this game. From what I've read, my OPINION is that there is no way (without a complete overhaul of the game engine) that SWTOR will ever be able to handle the massive levels of world PvP that we were hoping for without a concurrent massive drop in frame-rate/lag spikes. And the "high-rez" textures will never come. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Nah, I'm done. Once I get through the remaining story lines, there will be very little to keep me. Even if I stay with this one, I really doubt I will ever buy another Bio-Where? game at full price. Pre orders are out the window no matter how catchy a commercial they put out. Between this and Mass Effect 3, they have lost one of their biggest fans.

[AeSaar]

A man becomes interested in a video game developer

A man falls in love with their games

A man loses trust in the video game developer

A man decides to stop buying their games

 

A man becomes interested in a new video game developer

A man falls in love with their games

A man loses trust in the new video game developer

A man decides to stop buying their games

 

And so on...

 

So, welcome to capitalism?

 

Baldur's Gate released in 1998.

 

So, I guess ending a 14 year relationship hurts, even if it is a 'buyer-meets-seller' relationship.

 

If you do business for someone for an extended length of time, a certain level of confidence builds up. The seller relies on the recursive patronage of the buyer just as much as the buyer becomes reliant on the sellers product consistency. When this relationship ends, it is a sad day for both parties.

 

Since many gamers are losing confidence in Bioware/ EA, can the entertainment company continue to rely on its "strong" brand identity to move product?

 

Only time will tell what the future holds.

[AeSaar]

To anyone,

 

before answering I invite you to read the devs insight of how they managed the game development:

1. Behind the scenes of Star Wars: The Old Republic: throwing people at the problem
   
2. Star Wars: The Old Republic was built to thrive in a WoW world
   

 

Now take into consideration they had 6 years to create SWTOR (1.5 to 2 times a traditional MMO development time frame) and roundly $200 millions (5 x LotRo, 4 x AoC, 3 x RIft budget) to do so.

 

"BioWare used the Colonel John Boyd fighter pilot model of decision making, which says that the winner of a dogfight is the one who makes the most decisions the fastest. A development team is like a fighter pilot, said Dickinson, in that good decisions made slowly can impact a project fatally. The team iterated through a method of observing, orienting, deciding, acting, and then observing again (the OODA model) to make super fast decisions, based on the combined experience of the production team. This led to faster decisions over time, and, said the producers, a better game on launch day." -Second Link

-----

If this is true, they may have already decided with a great deal of speed to act slowly on Transfers and Mergers because they think them a bad idea or low priority (say in comparison to the Legacy Update 1.2).

 

What is it? Did they decide quickly to put transfers on the back-burner, or is this article inaccurate and they really do not have a quick decision making process?

Edited May 21, 2012 by AeSaar

[Akaela]

This was my first EA/Bioware game. Not buying anything from either company without the title being out a good six months now. Neither are a company I can trust.

[Deewe]

"BioWare used the Colonel John Boyd fighter pilot model of decision making, which says that the winner of a dogfight is the one who makes the most decisions the fastest. A development team is like a fighter pilot, said Dickinson, in that good decisions made slowly can impact a project fatally. The team iterated through a method of observing, orienting, deciding, acting, and then observing again (the OODA model) to make super fast decisions, based on the combined experience of the production team. This led to faster decisions over time, and, said the producers, a better game on launch day." -Second Link

-----

If this is true, they may have already decided with a great deal of speed to act slowly on Transfers and Mergers because they think them a bad idea or low priority (say in comparison to the Legacy Update 1.2).

 

What is it? Did they decide quickly to put transfers on the back-burner, or is this article inaccurate and they really don not have a quick decision making process?

This decision model only works for short term poor quality products.

 

BTW you don't win wars with fighter pilot model of decision, at best you might win a battle. MMO are long term models. You build them lke skyscrapers with very solid and deep foundations.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Deewe