So what killed PvP?

[Zataos]

No matchmaker system killed pvp. Inexperienced players should be matched up across from inexperienced players, 3 man premades across from 3 man premades etc, also the idiotic notion of "community" that can not obtained with a cross server queue system in place killed this game, cross server should have been in at launch. As such, this game was killed by the designers, SWTOR, at times, seems to be tailored for and designed by the MMO dejected players with anti-group finder, anti-combat log policies and so on.

[DuriZap]

"IN THE GAME" caused people to unsub and not play PvP?

The symptom of the problem is the many uneven matches you get into. Some are easily won, some easily lost, very few matches are actually exciting to play, most just feel like a job, which very few people want to pay to do.

[Itukaaj]

Class balance was killed in 1.2

Gear balance was never achieved + the 1.2 gear never changed the pug v premade paradigm no one wants to grind gear by getting beat up for 9000 warzones by the same team who was fully geared by the second week

So many people left you may have lost your friends, your guild and now have to wait 20 minutes for a warzone. 10 people on the fleet wasn't the only problem but it was the nail in the coffin.

 

 

SWTOR started out with so much promise- this is a story of lost opportunity.

[Brool]

our community killed pvp.

 

Oh wait its not dead? Let me edit that... our community is trying to kill pvp.

[Daxun]

No matchmaker system killed pvp. Inexperienced players should be matched up across from inexperienced players, 3 man premades across from 3 man premades etc, also the idiotic notion of "community" that can not obtained with a cross server queue system in place killed this game, cross server should have been in at launch. As such, this game was killed by the designers, SWTOR, at times, seems to be tailored for and designed by the MMO dejected players with anti-group finder, anti-combat log policies and so on.

 

Those things didn't save Rift and won't save SWTOR. There's no substitute for a healthy community, and you can't have a healthy community w/o healthy server populations.

 

All the cross server, addon, log, etc stuff are things that people who have been in WoW too long think are necessary for a game to work. The people asking for that stuff are the ones that will leave the game anyways.

 

Lets go back to Rift... The WoW kids clamored for this stuff. Said they were leaving if it didnt get put in. Trion put it all in (ostracizing the faithful that didn't want it) and most the people asking for it left as soon as the new WoW expansion hit. These are people who only know WoW and want to turn other games into it because it's all they know. They'll go back to WoW any time anything shiny is released.

 

Same thing here. The majority of the people asking for it have left or will leave whether it's put in or not. The people who will stick w/this game are mostly the ones that want nothing to do with WoW and it's war on MMO community.

[Kawiki]

95% of the problems can be solved by having the following.

 

Server Mergers/Cross Server Que

Premade vs Premade

Ranked Warzones (including matching).

 

Do that and this game will flourish.

[SWImara]

The trend in development is what's doing it for me lately, reading developer's comments that essentially state "PvP is fine and our community is wrong and full of whiners" just makes me want to spend my $$ elsewhere. At the moment the PvP game is worse (imo) than it was pre 1.2 and that would be fine if BW's representatives seemed to recognize their mistakes, recent articles suggest not only that they see everything as fine but that we can expect this trend to continue. Edited May 21, 2012 by SWImara

[Renita]

I know this is a server by server issue, but I have found that since Bioware changed the daily quest to be games played and not just games won, I have found an increased interest in pvp, I pvp 10+ games a day, so I am not in the group of people who pvp 24/7 but I do pvp a lot, and I have seen a lot of new names on both sides lately. My server queues are generally less than 5 minutes, but sometimes they can stretch to 10 to 15 minutes during non peak hours, This doesn't bother me, because in wow with cross server queuing I sometimes waited an hour for a queue. Cross server queues can't make queues instant every hour of the day. For those who are wandering my server is the Ebonhawk, its RP/PVE. We have a nice pvp community, with 2 or 3 good guilds on both sides, and a lot of decent solo queuers, I mean I am not saying we are perfect, every server has the noob who forgets to watch the objective or call for help, or the smack talker who annoys everyone, but overall I love my server and there is some good healthy competition on our server. I would love to hear some of the other servers with medium population who may share the same feelings about their server.

[JayPres]

The complete lack of action by the development team to correct minor issues.

 

The over-promise and under-deliver style of marketing with patch notes game updates.

 

The crass manner in which the developers have mocked their own subscriber base, lashing out with conceptions holding no merit.

 

Players tiring of the gameplay. The term "daily" in itself suggests a grind which is time-gated, redundant, and bares no real meaning.

 

Lack of ingame support tools such as persistant pvp groups, player based economical structure, world player versus player events etc.

 

I could go on, but I have to check to make sure the stop payment went through on my last subscription fee. BioWare doesn't deserve to be paid attention let alone $15 for there follies.

[Brool]

Like the old saying goes

 

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[Mistress_Ivi]

Since I don't have a 50, yet, my understanding is that PvP is fair and fun until you hit 50.

 

Unlike SWG, where gear was relatively cheap and easy to get; only a few items had minor boosts some deemed unfair; Tor adapts a Rift-like system that I'm sure also applies to WoW.

 

But, ToR doesn't bundle ranks up together - they just bunch you all into one instance. Meaning a maxed out PvP'er joining 15 other people who are barely geared, will utterly dominate the side they are not on.

 

For the slower to level, for the casual pvp'er... for those who don't actually have time to pvp for the entire time on the game and actually enjoy the plot and side lines of alts; it is game breaking.

 

Only two ways to make things right.

 

One: Easy mode for gear. Simple as.

Two: Splinter the well-off from the not-so-well off.

 

and the only way to splinter the better off PvP'ers is to outright ban certain items or mods to enter the 'casual' level 50 pvp - enabling an equal playing field, leaving only skill to gain advantage.

... and as a casual pvp'er who comes out top in several stats more often than not, Equal playing fields are more fun than stacked.

[VoidJustice]

Since I don't have a 50, yet, my understanding is that PvP is fair and fun until you hit 50.

 

As a 50 for serveral months now... I can say with experience...

 

It takes 1 week to get your first piece of BM if your completely clueless upon reaching 50 and enter wearing pve gear with no keys bound and clicking around like a total noobsickle...

 

If you buy recruit gear the experience is much better. Even if you don't you can simply bad lose yourself to BM gear...

 

After 3 weeks of getting more and more gear you are pretty much balanced against everyone including those in full WH...

 

The last thing this game needs is to have anything made any easier... as it is... it's unplayable shortly after reaching endgame and playing a month or so... in pvp with full BM... you will be bored to tears...

 

Add in the fact you don't need to win anymore... and everyone just does... WHATEVER MAN... instead of playing like a tight nit group... the pvp is a strange creature in this game...

 

THE MECHANICS ARE GREAT

THE CLASS BALANCE IS THE BEST

4 WZ no OWPVP no DEGRADING GEAR = DEAD IN THE WATER END GAME = /UNSUB

Edited May 21, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Kulraven]

SWTOR started out with so much promise- this is a story of lost opportunity.

 

It makes me sad to agree with this. I am a Bioware fan, and have been a Star Wars fanatic my entire life. Ive been trolling these boards and awaiting the release of this game for YEARS. For an uber fan of SW, its just not as easy and leaving for another game. There IS no other SW game. But I have to admit, I am slowly losing faith in BW.

 

From a design aspect, almost any team of experienced mmo players could have addressed the problems in this game better than BW is currently doing.

 

No cross server group or pvp finder? Goddamn inexcusable to not have in at launch, let alone by now. Wow has had this feature for years.

 

No intersecting world pvp zones (like Stranglethorn Vale in wow) that encourages world pvp if you elect to play on a pvp server? Totally asinine.

 

Ilum? Its been said.

 

Server merges? Why every employee they have is not working on this day/night is a mystery. Perhaps they dont totally grasp how the population issues are bleeding this game of players? People should lose their job over this issue.

 

Transfers? Please dont think giving us one free transfer is going to make up for this gross negligence. How about free transfers for two weeks? Dont start charging us for your mistake.

 

I love this game and love Star Wars, but I am getting very tired of the mismanagement going on here.

[Laytyen]

we need a cross-server pvp queue , like on wow

[vsalcedo]

Lack of a goal/epeen/whatever, you name it.

The warzones get boring quite fast at level 50, the only reason to do them is to get better gear, so you can be better at them. But when you get wh stuff, there is just no point.

No sieges, no kewl stuff, no "this battle was so epic, and I was there" feeling, you don't feel that you win anything for your faction or your guild, you don't even feel like you should care about winning.

Also, in some cases 5h queues.

 

So by what your saying WoW should be dead too, yet both games are still doing fine. Nothings killed PvP the whinning on these forums has no bounds. I still PvP but I play Fatman guess where the none whiners are.

[karnyboy]

I think really, what killed pvp will be a biased opinion of the ones who are leaving. If it is anything to anyone, I am going to add my 2 cents on what killed it for me.

 

The major issue I see is not the changes made in 1.2, after getting a full BM set pvp is the same as it always was (in essence). However, that being said no amount of patches can fix stupid and horrible players. This game is VERY unforgiving when it comes to class make up in warzones. The synergy between certain class specs is too high for a random group to pull off any sort of successful win.

 

Take for example Tankasins in DPS gear able to hold a node solo via self healing and heavy mitigation talents with high burst, Kiting Juggs guarding a BH Healer with a shield that negates any incoming interrupts/damage. Mirror classes having animation differences that actually make A better than B (Bioware stated it was minimal, but in pvp 0.5 seconds makes a difference between a heal off or stun in before the next guy)

 

My damage went up in 1.2 but so did everyone else, the damage increase on Tanks that are dpsing is in need of a serious toning down, heals are fine Healers require a guard to survive, which bring me back to the synergy part, some good some badly overpowered at the moment.

 

Guard not having a cool down and being popped from target to target, Marauders with a "second life" 99% Damage reduction in a form that stacks increased damage the longer they live in a spec that has major survivability in pvp already.

 

Interrupts not interrupting long enough, how many times have you sat there on a healer only to interrupt, dps, stun, interrupt, only to not have made huge progress on them and their resolve bar is now full and they heal full, Ops healers come to mind at the amount of kiting they can do AND heal at the same time.

 

And you people think rated will fix this? It will only make it worse.

[vsalcedo]

It makes me sad to agree with this. I am a Bioware fan, and have been a Star Wars fanatic my entire life. Ive been trolling these boards and awaiting the release of this game for YEARS. For an uber fan of SW, its just not as easy and leaving for another game. There IS no other SW game. But I have to admit, I am slowly losing faith in BW.

 

From a design aspect, almost any team of experienced mmo players could have addressed the problems in this game better than BW is currently doing.

 

No cross server group or pvp finder? gosh darn inexcusable to not have in at launch, let alone by now. Wow has had this feature for years.

 

No intersecting world pvp zones (like Stranglethorn Vale in wow) that encourages world pvp if you elect to play on a pvp server? Totally asinine.

 

Ilum? Its been said.

 

Server merges? Why every employee they have is not working on this day/night is a mystery. Perhaps they dont totally grasp how the population issues are bleeding this game of players? People should lose their job over this issue.

 

Transfers? Please dont think giving us one free transfer is going to make up for this gross negligence. How about free transfers for two weeks? Dont start charging us for your mistake.

H

I love this game and love Star Wars, but I am getting very tired of the mismanagement going on here.

 

Wait a second was it not people like you that complained about getting in game queques? Right now the firs dying and those of us who really love this game will only make it better. Tranfers are coming it's whether you choose to take them or not which separates you from the whiners. Xserver PvP is coming too is hard enough to please you whiners about stuff as is and they need to stop. Wait a *********** second STV pvp doesnt exist lol at least not anymore lol. Unless you want to lag the main cities in wow you wont get any pvp unless you run bgs. On top of the fact wow has a **** ton of players your comparing an established game with a new one. Go back to wow if you think world pvp actually happens because when it does it's very rare.

Edited May 21, 2012 by vsalcedo

[dcgregorya]

The thing that is killing me right now is Bioware's failure to acknowledge 1.2 issues. Gear gap, imbalance, need for server *MERGES* (not transfers). They don't acknowledge any of that which, along with all their blunders over 6 months, makes me question how many of them actually play their own game. You talk with anyone over ventrilo and you get the same responses but somehow Bioware is oblivious to the perception of their game. Their metrics can say whatever they want but when most people perceive your PVP as imbalanced, one-sided and grindy then that is all that matters.

[vsalcedo]

I think really, what killed pvp will be a biased opinion of the ones who are leaving. If it is anything to anyone, I am going to add my 2 cents on what killed it for me.

 

The major issue I see is not the changes made in 1.2, after getting a full BM set pvp is the same as it always was (in essence). However, that being said no amount of patches can fix stupid and horrible players. This game is VERY unforgiving when it comes to class make up in warzones. The synergy between certain class specs is too high for a random group to pull off any sort of successful win.

 

Take for example Tankasins in DPS gear able to hold a node solo via self healing and heavy mitigation talents with high burst, Kiting Juggs guarding a BH Healer with a shield that negates any incoming interrupts/damage. Mirror classes having animation differences that actually make A better than B (Bioware stated it was minimal, but in pvp 0.5 seconds makes a difference between a heal off or stun in before the next guy)

 

My damage went up in 1.2 but so did everyone else, the damage increase on Tanks that are dpsing is in need of a serious toning down, heals are fine Healers require a guard to survive, which bring me back to the synergy part, some good some badly overpowered at the moment.

 

Guard not having a cool down and being popped from target to target, Marauders with a "second life" 99% Damage reduction in a form that stacks increased damage the longer they live in a spec that has major survivability in pvp already.

 

Interrupts not interrupting long enough, how many times have you sat there on a healer only to interrupt, dps, stun, interrupt, only to not have made huge progress on them and their resolve bar is now full and they heal full, Ops healers come to mind at the amount of kiting they can do AND heal at the same time.

 

And you people think rated will fix this? It will only make it worse.

 

I see whos leaving is ****** PUG dpsers who think they should be able to kill assassins in tank mode. How about bring a *********** jug or guardian friend. Hell a healer and my sniper have no problems woth sins. Specially tank ones in dps gear which lose the factor of being an actual tank.

Ops healers, all I hear there is wahhh cant kill a healer by myself and you shouldn't its the same exact principle WoW uses ever see how disc priest work.

About guard learn to kill the squishie tank because they truly are squishie is called group PvP not warzone hero time.

[vsalcedo]

The thing that is killing me right now is Bioware's failure to acknowledge 1.2 issues. Gear gap, imbalance, need for server *MERGES* (not transfers). They don't acknowledge any of that which, along with all their blunders over 6 months, makes me question how many of them actually play their own game. You talk with anyone over ventrilo and you get the same responses but somehow Bioware is oblivious to the perception of their game. Their metrics can say whatever they want but when most people perceive your PVP as imbalanced, one-sided and grindy then that is all that matters.

Guess WoW is grindy too because is the exact same system, all of you out here are complaining because bw is using the same model if it aint broke dont fix it.

[Dmasterr]

What killed PvP

 

Lack of rankings in both WZ and Arena.

 

Time, which due to lacking the before mentioned made PvP-ing very dull.

[karnyboy]

I see whos leaving is ****** PUG dpsers who think they should be able to kill assassins in tank mode. How about bring a *********** jug or guardian friend. Hell a healer and my sniper have no problems woth sins. Specially tank ones in dps gear which lose the factor of being an actual tank.

Ops healers, all I hear there is wahhh cant kill a healer by myself and you shouldn't its the same exact principle WoW uses ever see how disc priest work.

About guard learn to kill the squishie tank because they truly are squishie is called group PvP not warzone hero time.

 

I take it you missed other points in my post that put it in an entirely different context. You need to really learn to comprehend a post as a whole rather than pick out the pieces you want to debate to.

 

It's the synergy between certain specs and the lack of "random" groupings actually making an opposable difference.

[dcgregorya]

Lack of rankings in both WZ and Arena.

 

Time, which due to lacking the before mentioned made PvP-ing very dull.

 

WZ rankings is a priority for like 1 out of 10 people. The perception of PVP in TOR is : grindy, one-sided, long queues, imbalanced, forced to deal with pugs. The perception of GW2 is : balanced (it isn't balanced but people perceive it that way), no wait, no grind.

 

The big problem with bioware is they spend all their time looking at graphs and none of their time dealing with people's perceptions or fixing the issues people are actually asking them to fix. I get that they have their own priorities from a business standpoint (paid transfers for instance) but don't look a gift horse in the mouth and ignore the people who are here right now paying you monthly subscription fees.

Edited May 21, 2012 by dcgregorya

[mikedee]

BW started stun locking servers causing everyone to unsub...

[HoyaPooch]

Does anyone have any clue what vsalcedo is talking about?

 

Congratulations on queuing on Fatman. If you think pvp is alive and well in this game, well all the power to you.

 

The OP asked what is killing PvP. People are giving their own answers as to why they left or what they think is wrong.

 

And you sit there in a nearly incoherent fashion and call them whiners, warzone heroes and other names.

 

And I love your advice on killing certain melee classes by saying bring another person which is absolute sheer genius. I'm also super impressed that you can kill someone with a pocket healer. You see most of us who are not on Fatman and play the republic side are lucky enough to get 6 or 7 in a warzone and doubly blessed if one of those people is a healer.

 

So Mr. Salcedo, you keep telling yourself that pvp is alive and well in SWTOR while I have systematically watched everyone I know or met through pvp on this game unsub over the last month.

Edited May 21, 2012 by HoyaPooch