Grav Round and Charged Bolts, and a bit of Full Auto (Gunnery)

[Hobocrunch]

It's nice that you (the Commando devs) are trying to get a nice rotation going for the Gunnery tree, but in all reality, there needs to be a better reason to use charged bolts than the fact that it does slightly more damage.

 

The worst thing in the world is knowing that you have to hit 8 buttons instead of 4, because the extra 4 you're hitting don't apply a debuff, but do slightly more damage. This isn't really a real rotation, and more poor design for bad skills. There's actually no reason at all to have grav round. You could just make the original talent for grav round to give charged bolts the armor debuff.

 

Also, Full Auto is a pretty underwhelming ability until you've talented into it (the talents are very high in the Gunnery Tree), making leveling a massive spam fest of Grav Round and High Impact Bolt and some other instant cast abilities. What's more is, if you take 1 hit whilst channeling full auto, you seem to only attack twice, instead of the original 3.

 

What's this have to do with anything? Well, it basically just comes back to spamming grav round / charged bolts to level since it's the highest single target damage in comparison to ammo / cooldown. Which is bad- Of course.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Hobocrunch

[Jalden]

The worst thing in the world is knowing that you have to hit 8 buttons instead of 4

 

You life can't have much in the way of obstacles

[Arbegla]

Well, Grav round increases armor pen (5% per stack IIRC) and allows you to use HIB... plus once you get demo round (the 31 point gunnery talent) you want 5 stacks of grav round up as much as possible.

 

Charged bolts is basically there to use when you don't have full auto procs, you don't need grav round, demo round is on cooldown, and you have extra ammo to burn. If you don't have extra ammo, use Hammer shots to rebuild ammo.

 

For leveling, i usually Mortar Volley, or sticky grenade as a 'lead' power, then use full auto while they are knocked down, or panicing, that way they don't interrupt my full auto. In the event of strong/elite mobs that are immune to those basic CCs, i just reserve full auto for either the intial pull, or when Cyro grenade is up, then i'll cyro, full auto, and HIB before they become unfrozen. Its nice burst, and you can do it without worrying about them interrupting you.

 

And everything that Charged Bolts procs, Grav round can proc too, basically turning Grav round into your 'goto' power for anything you need it. Now, once you have 5 stacks of it, Charged Bolts is probably the better option due to no longer needing the debuff, but again it depends on how much ammo you have.

 

I'm also not quite understanding your complaint, that you have 8 abilties to use, but that your limited to only 2 while leveling up?

[cashrender]

It's nice that you (the Commando devs) are trying to get a nice rotation going for the Gunnery tree, but in all reality, there needs to be a better reason to use charged bolts than the fact that it does slightly more damage.

 

The worst thing in the world is knowing that you have to hit 8 buttons instead of 4, because the extra 4 you're hitting don't apply a debuff, but do slightly more damage. This isn't really a real rotation, and more poor design for bad skills. There's actually no reason at all to have grav round. You could just make the original talent for grav round to give charged bolts the armor debuff.

 

Also, Full Auto is a pretty underwhelming ability until you've talented into it (the talents are very high in the Gunnery Tree), making leveling a massive spam fest of Grav Round and High Impact Bolt and some other instant cast abilities. What's more is, if you take 1 hit whilst channeling full auto, you seem to only attack twice, instead of the original 3.

 

What's this have to do with anything? Well, it basically just comes back to spamming grav round / charged bolts to level since it's the highest single target damage in comparison to ammo / cooldown. Which is bad- Of course.

 

How often are you having to reload after a fight? Spamming Grav round is terribly inefficient. Especially when Full Auto does more Damage and regens most of it's cost in it's cast time. It's not hard to prevent gettign hit while using it either. Just saying though, the only time I have to actually reload after a fight is if it was a Heroic 2+ pull and I had to heal myself a little because Dorne got stunned during it. So relatively no down time, and quick killing of most enemies.

[entropyboy]

once you get Grav Round you are never to use Charged Bolts again!

 

@20 my Grav Round is already doing more damage than Charged Bolts.

plus everything in Gunnery spec revolves around Grav Round being used.

 

Grav Round replaces Charged Bolts.

 

unless you were making some sort of Charged Bolts-centric hybrid build and were completely avoiding the 3 Grav Round skills and i guess you would be using Plasma Cell because Charged Bolts does not interact with AP Cell as well as Grav does (skills, procs, etc). and then i think it would be a more Assault spec-centric hybrid and not Gunnery at all.

 

if you are going mid-deep Gunnery, you take Grav and never look back at Charged.

 

 

as for Full Auto. yes, its weak at first but once we get the skill points, its our strongest move (as Gunnery) and ridiculously ammo efficient.

[Arbegla]

I figured Grav round replaces Charged Bolts in the long run, especially when you factor in the armor pen grav round gives, and as i'm at work, its hard to look up the damage between charged bolts and grav round, especially when you consider the extra 25% armor pen debuff bonus grav round gives (which would benefit charged bolts if you only used charged bolts after grav round was at max stacks)

[entropyboy]

I figured Grav round replaces Charged Bolts in the long run, especially when you factor in the armor pen grav round gives, and as i'm at work, its hard to look up the damage between charged bolts and grav round, especially when you consider the extra 25% armor pen debuff bonus grav round gives (which would benefit charged bolts if you only used charged bolts after grav round was at max stacks)

 

eventually (deep Gunnery) you wont have time to weave Charged Bolts into the mix.

 

because you need all your GCDs as it is.

in an ideal situation (no incoming damage, no movement, single-target, etc), you are working off of a cycle of 10 GCDs*.

3 for Full Auto, 1 for HIB, 1 for Demo Round, and 5 for Grav to build up Charged Barrel.

and any proc of Curtain of Fire will disrupt this. so it is tight as it is, without trying to sneak a Charged Bolt into the mix.

not even taking into account ammo management which adds Hammer Shot, unless you can get really consistent on Cell Charger procs (the REAL reason why Gunnery wont use Charged Bolt).

 

 

*(10 GCDs because our 'rotation' is based around three 15s CDs and a debuff that lasts for 15s)

[Arbegla]

Ah, that makes perfect sense then, especially at base. extremely high levels of haste may make it easier, but that would only matter if haste (i mean alacrity) can lower the GCD...

 

basically the rotation would be:

 

Grav round until 5 stacks->HIB->Demo round, with full auto procs in between (according to the 10 GCD limitation, your assuming 3 full auto procs)

 

Would it be worthwhile then, to use Full Auto without the proc (i/e, without the increased damage bonus) just to try to proc Cell Charger? Does Cell charger work off any crit during Full Auto (i/e, if the 2nd hit crit, but the 1st didn't, would Cell Charger still proc?) I'm assuming due to the ICD of 3 seconds, that it would be the case, which the ICD preventing multiple procs from triggering assuming all 3 hits crit.

[entropyboy]

Grav round until 5 stacks->HIB->Demo round, with full auto procs in between (according to the 10 GCD limitation, your assuming 3 full auto procs)

 

i noticed an error i made, i meant to say that its 2 for Full Auto, and its not 2 casts of Full Auto. Full Auto is a 3s channel, so that eats up 2 GCDs. the 3 got me confused earlier and i kept saying 3 GCDs when it is really 2, but a 3s channel.

 

so i guess there is a 'free' GCD in there. 2 Full Auto, 1 HIB, 1 Demo, 5 Grav, 1 free = 10 GCDs (or 15s). but with latency and player imput lag, that would get up that extra time anyway.

 

Would it be worthwhile then, to use Full Auto without the proc.

 

Full Auto is deep-Gunnery's hardest hitter. so you want to use it on CD, so that when Curtain of Fire procs, its just that much more overall damage.

 

as a single-target priority list, with '>' for greater than:

Full Auto CoF proc > Full Auto > High Impact Bolt > Demolition Round > Grav Round (spam me) > Hammer Shot (ammo management only)

[redlily]

So what's a good rotation in PVP?

 

Open with Full Auto or Grav round first?

[MonteStyle]

CoF finishes the cooldown of Full Auto as well.

 

So you can do Full Auto, Grav round, Full auto again, 2 more grav rounds, then Demo round.

 

But if you do that you are gonna pull aggro =). But in PvP, if you aren't focus fired, that's one dead Imperial.

Edited December 20, 2011 by MonteStyle

[Arbegla]

Would it be worth it to use Full Auto without 5 stacks of the Grav round debuff? or does it do enough damage, that having the additional armor pen bonus won't matter in the long run?

[MonteStyle]

Would it be worth it to use Full Auto without 5 stacks of the Grav round debuff? or does it do enough damage, that having the additional armor pen bonus won't matter in the long run?

 

It does great damage on it's own yes, and since Curtain of Fire finishes the cooldown on it, you essentially get a free FA in your rotation. No reason not to use it.

 

FA may not hit as hard as 2 grav rounds, but its VERY ammo efficient. In most cases you regen the cost of the ammo back in the 3 seconds it's channeled.

[entropyboy]

FA may not hit as hard as 2 grav rounds, but its VERY ammo efficient. In most cases you regen the cost of the ammo back in the 3 seconds it's channeled.

 

if we are talking about Gunnery, Full Auto certainly hits harder than 2 Grav Rounds.

[MonteStyle]

if we are talking about Gunnery, Full Auto certainly hits harder than 2 Grav Rounds.

 

Sorry I meant BEFORE the CoF proc. I could be wrong on that as well though.

[Arbegla]

Sorry I meant BEFORE the CoF proc. I could be wrong on that as well though.

 

So basically, start with FA, then spam grav round (until 5 stacks, which is about 3 grav rounds with the talent) Using any CoF procs you get in between. Once you get to 5 stacks, you want to use HIB and Demo Round.

 

Cycle Grav round just enough to keep yourself at 5 stacks, and in between Demo round and HIB cooldowns. Use FA every cooldown otherwise, and every CoF proc.

 

Use Hammer Shot to refill ammo, and pop recharge cells when your down to 4 ammo (and every cooldown otherwise)

 

Is that about the right rotation/priority?

[Ghrex]

So basically, start with FA, then spam grav round (until 5 stacks, which is about 3 grav rounds with the talent) Using any CoF procs you get in between. Once you get to 5 stacks, you want to use HIB and Demo Round.

 

Cycle Grav round just enough to keep yourself at 5 stacks, and in between Demo round and HIB cooldowns. Use FA every cooldown otherwise, and every CoF proc.

 

Use Hammer Shot to refill ammo, and pop recharge cells when your down to 4 ammo (and every cooldown otherwise)

 

Is that about the right rotation/priority?

 

That is correct on single targets.

[MonteStyle]

So basically, start with FA, then spam grav round (until 5 stacks, which is about 3 grav rounds with the talent) Using any CoF procs you get in between. Once you get to 5 stacks, you want to use HIB and Demo Round.

 

Cycle Grav round just enough to keep yourself at 5 stacks, and in between Demo round and HIB cooldowns. Use FA every cooldown otherwise, and every CoF proc.

 

Use Hammer Shot to refill ammo, and pop recharge cells when your down to 4 ammo (and every cooldown otherwise)

 

Is that about the right rotation/priority?

 

That's the gist of it ya, and like someone said before, on single targets.

 

I primarily pvp so rotation is highly dependent on the situation.

[RamataKahn]

Charged bolts is basically there to use when you don't have full auto procs, you don't need grav round,

 

 

GR still does more damage and costs the same, so again, why use CB?

[Kadfael]

This may need it's own thread but I'll ask here. What AOE abilities/skills should a gunnery commando be using?

 

I dropped explosive round but I still have sticky grenade, hail of bolts and mortar volley on my bar. Which of these are best?

 

At the moment I can sticky grenade the middle guy of the group and hail of bolts them and this seems to take care of most of them. Only level 14 at the moment so probably not a reliable tactic as the game goes on.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Kadfael

[Kunari]

I've been thinking of this rotation, I picked it up in another thread and did a few tweaks.

 

1. Ask your companion to start attack. (otherwise he seems to stand there for a few seconds)

2. grav shot x2 or 3 times (to build stacks)

3. High impact bolt

4. FA

5. hammer shot a few times to rebuild ammo

6. grav shot

7. stockstrike (if in melee range) / Explosive Round / Full Auto / Other

8. hammer shot until you rebuild 10 ammos (option Refill-Ammo) Repeat 2 to 7.

 

Note: If he get near you, cast concussive charge. You can throw a cryo grenade after the first grav shot. In the worst case scenario, just use No Retreat.

 

I know it's 8 steps but it doesn't feel that bad.