Cormacus Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I've recently returned to my commando after getting bored with my DPS Sage. (I retired my commando a while back and only just got him up to around 1000 in Expertise.) I've got a hard time deciding between Commando Assault or Gunnery. The PvP Scoreboard and medals won is telling me conflicting things. Gunnery Gunnery seems to still be able to hit very hard if positioned right, it feels like it has burst when left alone for a while. Full Auto especially is very good. But in PvP matches I get very low amount of medals and commendations, the overall damage isn't very impressive either around 250k. However I'm fairly sure I'm actually taking down enemy players and able to kill them fairly easily if they don't notice me. I often don't get any defensive or offensive medals because of my positioning, i.e. not right in the middle of the action. Gunnery also seems to have the only good defensive abilities mainly the improved Stockstrike and Knockback (noticed the longer cooldown though..). However it's very dependant on a good team it seems. If you're up against a very good team or have a fairly poor team with little melee you have less chance of having a impact. Assault Assault is entirely different, it's more fun to play as it's mobile but I can't seem to kill anything. On the other hand in PvP matches I end up doing a lot of damage, around 400k+ and getting a decent amount of medals. I'm not entirely sure either what's doing the damage. Is for example Hammer Shot really doing a lot of damage or mainly pointless? Assault Plastique of course is the big hitter but on a long cooldown, Icendery Round cost a lot and does damage over a very long period - 18sec. Healing through the damage I do as Assault seems very easy. Am I playing Assault wrong? Is there a special rotation to stick to? Is it possible to have burst? Does assault only produce big numbers that actually mean very little? Medals / PVP Scoreboard I know medals are not everything but low medals also means less commendations, and longer time to gear up.. Plus it's always nice to be topping the charts. On my sage I'm always in the top 3 spots in every match but DPS sage feels a bit like Commando Assault, lots of damage but can't really kill anyone easily. Hybrids Are there any hybrid builds that are viable for DPS? For sages Hybrids is really still the way to go, it's the only way to get real burst, mobility and utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akilus Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Assault Specialist I think is meant for PvP, if you want to level faster through quests do Gunnery. Edited May 17, 2012 by Akilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormacus Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Assault Specialist I think is meant for PvP, if you want to level faster through quests do Gunnery. I'm lvl50, valor 70.... so done the levelling. Just interested in the PvP aspect at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I'm lvl50, valor 70.... so done the levelling. Just interested in the PvP aspect at the moment. I think it's going to come down to personal tastes and playstyle. If PvP was any good in this game, I'd be full Assault Spec'd - the mobility is far too valuable. Gunnery has great burst potential, but in PvP, players aren't kind enough to let you build a 5 stack of Grav Rounds on them to let you maximize your burst potential. My suggestion, if you PvP primarily (only), go Assault and don't look back. If you intend to PvE, respec to Gunnery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormacus Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think it's going to come down to personal tastes and playstyle. If PvP was any good in this game, I'd be full Assault Spec'd - the mobility is far too valuable. Gunnery has great burst potential, but in PvP, players aren't kind enough to let you build a 5 stack of Grav Rounds on them to let you maximize your burst potential. My suggestion, if you PvP primarily (only), go Assault and don't look back. If you intend to PvE, respec to Gunnery. I agree, mobility is very important in PvP. But I just get the feeling that Assault doesn't do any real difference and just padding the numbers with splash damage here and there. Or is it possible to burst down single targets on your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gragus Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Hybrids Are there any hybrid builds that are viable for DPS? For sages Hybrids is really still the way to go, it's the only way to get real burst, mobility and utility. I realize hybrid builds aren't currently popular with comms/mercs, but I'm relatively happy with the merc equivalent of this build: AS/CM Hybrid I'm about 60/40 on dps and healing in most WZs, but can focus one role as the need arises. Not having AP does hurt, as Assault's burst is already weak. But I find I just cannot go without Kolto Bomb... I love that it is instant with a short cooldown, and it's actually a decent heal when used on clumps of players. My damage+healing numbers are higher than most other comms/mercs (even those who outgear me), and I get a decent amount of medals and mvp votes. It is a dynamic playstyle and fun trying to play to the current needs of the team. IMHO Most importantly, I feel less gimpy than my stationary brethren spamming GR/TM. I do tend to throw them heals often... with proper support, they can become turrets of mass destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I agree, mobility is very important in PvP. But I just get the feeling that Assault doesn't do any real difference and just padding the numbers with splash damage here and there. Or is it possible to burst down single targets on your own? Full Auto, assault plastique and HiB will be your "burst". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbxsparx Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 http://oi47.tinypic.com/v3ites.jpg My Assault DPS. At least my best one so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 http://oi47.tinypic.com/v3ites.jpg My Assault DPS. At least my best one so far. DAMN! Impressive! Would you mind sharing your spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallahan Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) http://oi47.tinypic.com/v3ites.jpg My Assault DPS. At least my best one so far. Problem: You haven't killed much enemys. I suppose both sides have very good/much healers (it was a 0:0 game). In this case it is not difficult to get high damage overall counts on void star. Edited May 18, 2012 by Wallahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbxsparx Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Problem: You haven't killed much enemys. I suppose both sides have very good/much healers (it was a 0:0 game). In this case it is not difficult to get high damage overall counts on void star. It just shows the damage potential of the tree I am using. Furio is a gunnery commando who did significantly lower damage compared to mine (didn't even break 500k eveb with the heal fest) and we do have similar equipments. He's a war hero I'm a conqueror, I am slightly more geared but only by a couple of pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallahan Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 It just shows the damage potential of the tree I am using. Furio is a gunnery commando who did significantly lower damage compared to mine (didn't even break 500k eveb with the heal fest) and we do have similar equipments. He's a war hero I'm a conqueror, I am slightly more geared but only by a couple of pieces. Yes, you have shown, that the Assault spec is awesome in spaming pointless and burstless damage in the voidstar zerg. The spec is not able to kill anything in a short period of time. Thanks for the enemy healers your ridicilous 18 sec DoT could affect several enemys full time. In a normal game your enemys dies faster, but not from your DoTs. It's a nice spec for damage medals farming, yes. Gunnerys have the problem in overheals on both sides on voidstar, that they are always short on ammo. They have to spam their abilities for burst. Without combat pauses to reload or dying, they have several downtimes on ammo. I have played both specs, PvP level 86, and you know, I am right. But is it not my intention to explain spec x is better than y. In my opinion in the current state of the pvp both specs lacks in burst and survivability. The gunnery has more burst, the assault more mobility, but both specs actually cannot stand with many other classes/specs. The gunnery needs his pre 1.2 burst back. Then it's okay, that he is imobil and squishy. The assault needs a shorter DoT-period (18 sec in pvp... rofl) and another mechanic to reset the high impact bolt cooldown without casting or channeling, so he didn't need to stop kiting to get a instant burst skill back all 6 sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulkun Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Well it's not like they don't know we suck in PVP. Submitted a ticket to change to Vanguard. Got a live agent chat instead. http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/kulkun/Theyknow.jpg I just wonder if he really went to go find the guy. Personally I feel the commando is the bastard child of the development team. Nobody is really responsible for it and nobody in the dev group wants to represent us. Edited May 19, 2012 by Kulkun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormacus Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yes, you have shown, that the Assault spec is awesome in spaming pointless and burstless damage in the voidstar zerg. The spec is not able to kill anything in a short period of time. Thanks for the enemy healers your ridicilous 18 sec DoT could affect several enemys full time. In a normal game your enemys dies faster, but not from your DoTs. It's a nice spec for damage medals farming, yes. Gunnerys have the problem in overheals on both sides on voidstar, that they are always short on ammo. They have to spam their abilities for burst. Without combat pauses to reload or dying, they have several downtimes on ammo. I have played both specs, PvP level 86, and you know, I am right. But is it not my intention to explain spec x is better than y. In my opinion in the current state of the pvp both specs lacks in burst and survivability. The gunnery has more burst, the assault more mobility, but both specs actually cannot stand with many other classes/specs. The gunnery needs his pre 1.2 burst back. Then it's okay, that he is imobil and squishy. The assault needs a shorter DoT-period (18 sec in pvp... rofl) and another mechanic to reset the high impact bolt cooldown without casting or channeling, so he didn't need to stop kiting to get a instant burst skill back all 6 sec. Well this is why I'm asking about either spec. Neither seems to work for me. Assault I get nice numbers on the Scoreboard but it feels like I can't actually kill anything or make any real impact. But my main issue is that Assault have no real survivability when jumped by melee, the knockback isn't very strong, we have no real root and only a single stun, no interrupt and the improved shield still is very lackluster and pretty useless (I don't count the stun which require a cast time). Gunnery is great but only if you're allowed to stand still for a longer time, which every only happens if you're in a very good team and face a bad opposing team. Are there any viable hybrids? I did try the Gunnery/Medic hybrid but I seem to run out of force very quickly and damage is very low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbxsparx Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Well this is why I'm asking about either spec. Neither seems to work for me. Assault I get nice numbers on the Scoreboard but it feels like I can't actually kill anything or make any real impact. But my main issue is that Assault have no real survivability when jumped by melee, the knockback isn't very strong, we have no real root and only a single stun, no interrupt and the improved shield still is very lackluster and pretty useless (I don't count the stun which require a cast time). Gunnery is great but only if you're allowed to stand still for a longer time, which every only happens if you're in a very good team and face a bad opposing team. Are there any viable hybrids? I did try the Gunnery/Medic hybrid but I seem to run out of force very quickly and damage is very low. Tbh, assault is better when vsing melee. Well that's my opinion at least. I've tried both specs, well I was actually a gunnery commando, switched to assault and never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormacus Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Tbh, assault is better when vsing melee. Well that's my opinion at least. I've tried both specs, well I was actually a gunnery commando, switched to assault and never looked back. But how do you burst down a target as full Assault? AP -> IR -> HiB -> Full Auto -> HiB... but then what, that often doesn't seem to get anyone down that far. And if you're on the move it's down to AP -> IR -> HiB then spamming hammer shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallahan Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Well this is why I'm asking about either spec. Neither seems to work for me. Assault I get nice numbers on the Scoreboard but it feels like I can't actually kill anything or make any real impact. But my main issue is that Assault have no real survivability when jumped by melee, the knockback isn't very strong, we have no real root and only a single stun, no interrupt and the improved shield still is very lackluster and pretty useless (I don't count the stun which require a cast time). Gunnery is great but only if you're allowed to stand still for a longer time, which every only happens if you're in a very good team and face a bad opposing team. Are there any viable hybrids? I did try the Gunnery/Medic hybrid but I seem to run out of force very quickly and damage is very low. Hybrid-Spec is useless in my opinion. Every dps-spec builds on a special cell/effect. In the gunnery tree you have to skill on 31 to make your grav round and fullauto effective. Without skilling it, grav rounds are pointless. In the assault tree you push up your DoT's damage and critchance. Rest of your points goes in Gunnery tree for more aim and crit on plasma cells. You can spend them in medic, you could change your 31er assault spec ultimate for kolto bomb, but you have to pass on 9% more aim, 3% more crit for using plasma cell and casttime reduce for your charged bolt, if you choose your kolto bomb. I am not an experienced medic. I don't know how far you have to skill in medic to perform your duty well in pvp. But I am thinking, that you don't pass away the 31 medic skill and the heal, aim and crit boni in gunnery tree to go in assault tree for the tier 3 DoT. And from what I am reading, you are looking for a dps build for pvp. But how do you burst down a target as full Assault? AP -> IR -> HiB -> Full Auto -> HiB... but then what, that often doesn't seem to get anyone down that far. And if you're on the move it's down to AP -> IR -> HiB then spamming hammer shot. Burst is most problem in the spec. You have to set your DoT and bomb on the target, cast HiB and full auto, spam hammershots. If your lucky, your HiB is ready again, wait for your bomb exploding, cast HiB and go straight on the target, spaming hammershots and stock strike. You can use charged bolts to reset HiB if full auto failed, if not, don't use charged bolts. Edited May 19, 2012 by Wallahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabakur Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I agree, mobility is very important in PvP. But I just get the feeling that Assault doesn't do any real difference and just padding the numbers with splash damage here and there. Or is it possible to burst down single targets on your own? I'm only level 46 but I've been leveling through Pvp with assault for the last 3 levels. There is burst, well that's not 100 pct true. Assault is a pester spec, I've found. I personally love it and have tons of fun with it. I can't kill scoundrel/ops healers though unless I'm tag teaming one with someone else. But knowing that it's still great because while youre not killing op/scoundrel you're keeping it from healing other people and that's a big plus. Sage/sorc and usually merc/commando I own. But ya, I can 1 v 1 really effectively vs melee they can't target you heh, cuz yer circling em like a vulture. So ya I can def kill people in as spec. It's fun tooR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomqt Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) But how do you burst down a target as full Assault? AP -> IR -> HiB -> Full Auto -> HiB... but then what, that often doesn't seem to get anyone down that far. And if you're on the move it's down to AP -> IR -> HiB then spamming hammer shot. This is a good base rotation but... I actually wondered myself what I had to do to put the pressure and even demolish other players A more advanced kill/pressure rotation is: Reserve powercell > Plasma Grenade > AS > IR > HiB > Full Auto > HiB > Hammer Short / Rapid recharge + Charged Bolt The above rotation is amazing for taking down enemies, I've even done so much damage to pressure a BM/WH geared Mara into using UR 1v1 Don't believe the BS about ammo consumption, being able to manage ammo separates the good from the bad Edited May 21, 2012 by Randomqt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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