Sorcerer 1v1 guide vs Sent/Mara!

[Larry_Dallas]

If you are kiting you are also taking yourself away from the objective and not helping your team. Flawed logic is flawed.

 

who says you have to kite someone away from an objective? And even if you did, who says you're not still damaging the other team while he chases you? You do not have to be actively engaged with the other team to damage them with this class.

[Sulvan]

Uploading the first part still but i have a sage who went balance spec and skip to the end to see my damage

 

But i just kill stuff in the huttball match -

 

 

at the end i do like 50k more damage then anyone else in the game.

[Larry_Dallas]

Just to throw a caution out there, most of the tactics in this video will not work against a well played Combat/Carnage (Middle Tree) Sent/Mara. They have better mobility and will constantly be on top of you with roots and burst dps.

 

The burst can easily be disrupted, but yeah, they have enough gap-closers to finish the job anyway. Annihilation doesn't, though.

[TwitchWINs]

who says you have to kite someone away from an objective? And even if you did, who says you're not still damaging the other team while he chases you? You do not have to be actively engaged with the other team to damage them with this class.

 

Lol exactly this guy gets it unlike "fungihoujo" i think what he is trying to say is to tell fungihoujo that you don't need to kite across the entire map and hide behind something to pull off an effective kite, You can just as easy run circles behind your group of teammates and if the mara/sent is stupid enough to overextend then he is dead...another tip when you know you see a class which you think you might have to kite take a quick 360 and check which places would be the best vs the class with more/less LOS objects where his teammates are in comparison to yours.

but anyways nothing is really needing to be said now we all know the fungihoujo is just mad idk why as im playing sorc and have been since release and i love it now more then pre 1.2. The sorcerer class has 1 spec which is decently viable atm and i choose not to play it because it runs out of force in like 2 mins and lightning is more fun

[Dhrasur]

Hello remedy, I'm a marauder and I watched your video and I thought it was really cool and inspiring. I loooooove to duel and after seeing your vid I convinced many people to duel me and we had a lot of fun. All the couple first sorcs I tried to fight have been very easy to beat even if I showed them your video, but then I dueled with a guy for about 2 hours and he started to get me to 30% and getting better but... he was a keyboard turner and our duel forced him to learn to play with the mouse to rotate the camera etc. So it was a rough change for him. I may add that I never use all my CD vs him because I don't need to at this skill level.

 

Then I tried vs one of my friend who I managed to convince to log in just for that. He uses the mouse to rotate camera and he strafe so mechanically he wasn't limited. We started the duel session with me not using my cc breaker. After many duels, his execution tremendously got better and when he beated me 3 times in a row decisively. When I added the cc breaker to break the initial whirlwind, I dominated him all the following fights. Now my question is, what should my sorc friend do to counter this? (He is playing madness)

[TwitchWINs]

Too be honest ill give you the best 3 tips i can think of when fighting a mara/sent

1. open with whirlwind if mara/sent breaks this its already over for him he will die in a 4 second stun once he reachs 30%

2. when you see or know a mara/sent is going to invis(camo) you can bet your bottom he is not trying to run away so start running away from him the second he invis(camo) depending on spec he cant catch you, what this will do is ruin his gap closer without using one of yours so now he comes out of invis(camo) and is still 10-15 yrds away meaning he has to now use his only gap closer left(charge) "slow,affliction,creeping terror,force lightning" he should be around 30% or less by now. Hope this can help a lil bit

[Cempa]

Hello remedy, I'm a marauder and I watched your video and I thought it was really cool and inspiring. I loooooove to duel and after seeing your vid I convinced many people to duel me and we had a lot of fun. All the couple first sorcs I tried to fight have been very easy to beat even if I showed them your video, but then I dueled with a guy for about 2 hours and he started to get me to 30% and getting better but... he was a keyboard turner and our duel forced him to learn to play with the mouse to rotate the camera etc. So it was a rough change for him. I may add that I never use all my CD vs him because I don't need to at this skill level.

 

Then I tried vs one of my friend who I managed to convince to log in just for that. He uses the mouse to rotate camera and he strafe so mechanically he wasn't limited. We started the duel session with me not using my cc breaker. After many duels, his execution tremendously got better and when he beated me 3 times in a row decisively. When I added the cc breaker to break the initial whirlwind, I dominated him all the following fights. Now my question is, what should my sorc friend do to counter this? (He is playing madness)

 

In 1v1 Duel a Sorcerer has options, one is healer/dps hybrid which will outlast you or get Electric Binding! I am not saying 31 Madness won't work, I am saying Electric Binding is that good.

 

Depends on your build, Carnage though rare inside a WZ will translate to insta death to the Sorcerer because we get rooted for 9sec every xx sec but few spec that.

 

If you are Watchman/Annihilation you either have talented snare Rupture or you don't. If you did not talent Rupture snare I will kite you to death as a hybrid 0/20/21. If you have talented Rupture snare I am at a great disadvantage and would need the stars to align to win but it can happen if I can fully heal twice.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Cempa

[fungihoujo]

The other guy was right, you're wrong. Madness is the toughest matchup for an annihilation marauder outside, maybe a better-geared tankassin. Madness is not that tough of a matchup for carnage though unless his ranged root is on cooldown when he opens.

 

Oh I'm sorry, I guess I missed the part where carnage wasn't a marauder spec.

 

Oh no, wait a second- I didn't. Carnage is a marauder spec- it destroys sorcs, so where's your defense now? I didn't realize we can just pretend one class doesn't have a spec when we're discussing balance because that spec dominates.

 

That aside- as we're getting also into kiting/group play- Madness can kite one person, but, sorcs are the number one target- if you're trying to kite in a group, you will have 2 people on you guaranteed.

 

So, basically the only defense the marauders can come up with is 'if you're a sorc in a group you can kite a single mara through your team and you'll be fine'.

 

Great defense as always marauders, keep trying to fend off the nerf and keep sorcs from getting a buff- it'll work on BW, makers of the worst mmo pvp ever.

[Larry_Dallas]

Oh I'm sorry, I guess I missed the part where carnage wasn't a marauder spec.

 

Oh no, wait a second- I didn't. Carnage is a marauder spec- it destroys sorcs, so where's your defense now? I didn't realize we can just pretend one class doesn't have a spec when we're discussing balance because that spec dominates.

 

That aside- as we're getting also into kiting/group play- Madness can kite one person, but, sorcs are the number one target- if you're trying to kite in a group, you will have 2 people on you guaranteed.

 

So, basically the only defense the marauders can come up with is 'if you're a sorc in a group you can kite a single mara through your team and you'll be fine'.

 

Great defense as always marauders, keep trying to fend off the nerf and keep sorcs from getting a buff- it'll work on BW, makers of the worst mmo pvp ever.

 

It's clear you don't understand what marauders can and can't do and the tradeoffs involved in doing it.

 

Nobody uses Carnage because it's too squishy for a melee to stay up for any length of time would be my answer (I had a carnage mara...I respeced rage because the downtime is so annoying). So yeah, a marauder can roll carnage, and have plenty of time to think about how awesome he is vs Kiters while he's waiting at gates. Next time you're against a team that has a carnage marauder, check the end of the warzone and note how he'll have double the deaths as the annihilation or rage-specced maras. Also note that if you disrupt his burst with a stun, he can be focused down while he's worried about rooting you before you wipe.

 

Also. A madness sorc can kite two enemies at the same time (hell, yesterday I kept 4 occupied by myself for long enough that the other 7 teammates could zerg right and plant a bomb on voidstar in a 7 on 4 situation. I died, but we made awesome time). Sorc can't defeat multiple enemies, mind you, but the enemy decision to 2 on 1 a sorc means their teammates are in a 4 on 2 situation for the duration of time the sorc is running strafing circles/climbing platforms/slaloming pillars (etc) while nuking and poisoning the mob. The rest of their team will wipe before you do and, even if you do wipe before your buddies can pull your chasers off, it'll still be a 3 on 2 fight for them once you die.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[SLRPSJ]

If you are kiting you are also taking yourself away from the objective and not helping your team. Flawed logic is flawed.

 

Every node has LOS objects around it. So kiting in a warzone is different from kiting in a wide open area like the duels shown. There are many times where I kite around a pole in voidstar dropping a shock on the capper as I kite 2-3 other people while waiting for reinforcements. If you think that the ability to buy this amount of time is pointless, than your logic is flawed. In fact, I would say a good kiting sorc is just about as good of a solo defender as any other class because of this.

 

You're right, the sorc that has tunnel vision and runs 60m away from a door in voidstar while kiting is not helping his team. He is also doing it wrong.

 

Flawed logic is flawed.

[TwitchWINs]

Every node has LOS objects around it. So kiting in a warzone is different from kiting in a wide open area like the duels shown. There are many times where I kite around a pole in voidstar dropping a shock on the capper as I kite 2-3 other people while waiting for reinforcements. If you think that the ability to buy this amount of time is pointless, than your logic is flawed. In fact, I would say a good kiting sorc is just about as good of a solo defender as any other class because of this.

 

You're right, the sorc that has tunnel vision and runs 60m away from a door in voidstar while kiting is not helping his team. He is also doing it wrong.

 

Flawed logic is flawed.

 

Agreed!

[pureeffinmetal]

Every node has LOS objects around it. So kiting in a warzone is different from kiting in a wide open area like the duels shown. There are many times where I kite around a pole in voidstar dropping a shock on the capper as I kite 2-3 other people while waiting for reinforcements. If you think that the ability to buy this amount of time is pointless, than your logic is flawed. In fact, I would say a good kiting sorc is just about as good of a solo defender as any other class because of this.

 

You're right, the sorc that has tunnel vision and runs 60m away from a door in voidstar while kiting is not helping his team. He is also doing it wrong.

 

Flawed logic is flawed.

 

Any class can use an object to LOS kite someone so long as they are willing to follow. What exactly is your point here? Kiting is not a skill exclusive to a Sorc.

 

Furthermore why have a Sorc and all his super kiting abilities defend in the first place? When tanks are 100 times better for defending? Because they can take hits...and they can kite too! In fact Juggernauts can AOE kite!

 

So kiting is sort of useful for defending nodes, but thats pretty much it. Not to mention Sorcs can pretty much only kite 1 person. If you are supposedly kiting 2-3 people you're not doing it right, they're doing it wrong. Any 1v3 scenario should even promptly for the 1, especially if the 1 is a Sorc who has no defensive cooldowns.

 

Again what was the point here other than just attempt to use my quip against me?

Edited June 5, 2012 by pureeffinmetal

[TwitchWINs]

I never said anything about guarding nodes, i don't like to do it but i will and can easy defend against 1-2 players while stopping caps for at least 30 seconds until help comes and that's playing Lightning lol. Stealth =best node defense!

[Chemic_al]

Or of course the attackers are poor players for not ccing you properly....

[Mookind]

Hit push to talk and call for backup

[TheVoidStalker]

(hell, yesterday I kept 4 occupied by myself for long enough that the other 7 teammates could zerg right and plant a bomb on voidstar in a 7 on 4 situation. I died, but we made awesome time). Sorc can't defeat multiple enemies, mind you, but the enemy decision to 2 on 1 a sorc means their teammates are in a 4 on 2 situation for the duration of time the sorc is running strafing circles/climbing platforms/slaloming pillars (etc) while nuking and poisoning the mob. The rest of their team will wipe before you do and, even if you do wipe before your buddies can pull your chasers off, it'll still be a 3 on 2 fight for them once you die.

This should be the takeaway from this thread for Sorcerers.

 

Winning doesn't mean killing the opposition and still being alive. It means accomplishing whatever objective needed to be accomplished to win that warzone.

 

If I'm defending a node and a Marauder (or 3) show up, I only have to survive long enough to keep them from taking my node until my reinforcements are close enough to take over.

 

Sorcerers are great at that.

 

If I'm attacking a node, it's the defender that has to stay within his tiny box of defense. If someone wants to leave his defense to kill me, all I need do is take him away from his post long enough for the team I came with to accomplish our goal. Heck, it is in my best interest to have more than one person chasing me to my slow, but inevitable doom as that creates imbalances for the rest of my team.

 

Do you think healers are going to solo any Marauders? No, healers are the tanks of PvP, they occupy people's time and focus so your team can accomplish its goals. Killing people is a side effect, not a goal.

 

I don't care about soloing Marauders and neither should you. I care about winning Warzones.

Edited June 5, 2012 by TheVoidStalker

[Larry_Dallas]

This should be the takeaway from this thread for Sorcerers.

 

Winning doesn't mean killing the opposition and still being alive. It means accomplishing whatever objective needed to be accomplished to win that warzone.

Killing people is a side effect, not a goal.

 

I don't care about soloing Marauders and neither should you. I care about winning Warzones.

 

Exactly. Sorcs generally don't struggle on the leaderboards in 3 of the warzones, but I should post my stats from an easy huttball win. My kills and damage totals in games like that are always pitiful. Objective points in the middle of the pack. But if all those movement effects I'm putting on pursuers makes it hard to chase down the ball carrier, the bubbles and heals make it hard to kill him and well-timed extricates (which don't show in stats) directly result in someone else scoring, what the heck do I care? We won and I was a huge part of why.

[TheVoidStalker]

Exactly. Sorcs generally don't struggle on the leaderboards in 3 of the warzones, but I should post my stats from an easy huttball win. My kills and damage totals in games like that are always pitiful. Objective points in the middle of the pack. But if all those movement effects I'm putting on pursuers makes it hard to chase down the ball carrier, the bubbles and heals make it hard to kill him and well-timed extricates (which don't show in stats) directly result in someone else scoring, what the heck do I care? We won and I was a huge part of why.

Oh how I miss old PvP that was 90% Huttball. Sorcerers are God-Kings of Huttball.

Edited June 5, 2012 by TheVoidStalker

[EdouardHolyhawk]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201Zf0RrbMbZcrfRsMk.1

 

Step 1: Respec as listed above.

 

Step 2: Call a sent/mara's mother a fat cow.

 

Step 3: lol @ said sent/mara as you destroy him.

 

Nuff said.

[SLRPSJ]

Any class can use an object to LOS kite someone so long as they are willing to follow. What exactly is your point here? Kiting is not a skill exclusive to a Sorc.

 

Furthermore why have a Sorc and all his super kiting abilities defend in the first place? When tanks are 100 times better for defending? Because they can take hits...and they can kite too! In fact Juggernauts can AOE kite!

 

So kiting is sort of useful for defending nodes, but thats pretty much it. Not to mention Sorcs can pretty much only kite 1 person. If you are supposedly kiting 2-3 people you're not doing it right, they're doing it wrong. Any 1v3 scenario should even promptly for the 1, especially if the 1 is a Sorc who has no defensive cooldowns.

 

Again what was the point here other than just attempt to use my quip against me?

 

Kiting is only useful in defending nodes now? I used that as one example. Kiting is useful any time you are being attacked... It is a key component to playing a ranged class(not sniper due to cover mechanic). A lot of times in a wz if someone opens on me, I can kite away and LOS and drop dmg on someone else and they can continue to chase or switch targets. If left alone a sorc can flat out tear up people.

 

Another point you seem to miss is the difference of kiting solo and on a team. You don't even need to have a perfect kite, you just need to create space so you can be healed. If you have competent healers, and you make it difficult on their dps to take you down, you don't get focused.

 

So, no I did not just post to use your quip against you. I posted to hopefully convey that kiting is not useless. You just made it easy for that quip to apply to you.

Edited June 5, 2012 by SLRPSJ