UtherrSorven Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I've been studying up on cover and how it works in PVP. In many videos, I don't see snipers/gunslingers rolling into natural cover... only popping their portable shields. Anyone know why? My understanding of the system is that they get better defense from natural cover than their shield... so what am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 My understanding of the system is that they get better defense from natural cover than their shield... so what am I missing? Not playing a cover class, but I never thought there is a difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevoisier Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 There's a few issues with natural cover in PVP. One big one for me is the lack of any good positioning from hard cover points. Take huttball for example: The sandbags up top in the middle seem like they would be pretty sweet, but if you take cover on them you don't get LOS with anything on the ground level, making them pointless. There's more issues that get eliminated with cover in place. It's not a drastic change anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxprimalxx Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 II do not play a cover class that much but i can imagine 2 reasons.. 1 position. Some of the natural cover might not be in the best locations to push an objective. Or 2 it just looks cooler to hid e behide a piece of high tech shielding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 A few reasons actually. 1. It's limiting. They are in specific places that don't move, that can't be re-positioned, and when an enemy pressures you, you have to leave it anyway. The natural cover in WZs that Bioware included are out in the open, very close to the points, and will make you spotted instantly.2. You can pop down portable cover right behind the natural cover and get the benefit of it. Roll into cover is largely useless.3. Cover itself is a very lackluster ability and natural cover is worse than portable. It gives you a 20% chance (if portable cover) to block ranged physical attacks. Natural cover gives you a 100% chance to block ranged physic if you aren't using a skill. If you want to fire back, you pop your head up and will take the hits. This means that only very few mercenary skills and other snipers will even be relevant to your cover. All other classes don't matter.3a. Since cover does not block tech or force (any yellow damage) it's not worth using outside of just using portable to be able to use your skills.4.Mobility. Even for gunslingers you need to be moving in PVP to re-position yourself. All battles shift and move. Being in one place doesn't give you the ability to inflict damage as much as you'd want. Portable cover is the only viable thing to use unless you are fighting another sniper. Even in that case, it's very easy to just walk outside of the range of the natural cover drawing him out into an equal fight of portables and only if they are also sharpshooter spec. The middle tree ignores cover anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfinsix Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 haven't played my sniper for a bit, but last time i did i had all sorts of cover issues, like roll to cover but not end up taking cover...so the shield was more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renita Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I am a gunslinger who pvps often and while I do like to gain the bonus from natural cover, or use it to close the gap between me and an enemy, you do have to move a lot in pvp so if you get tunnel vision and only use natural cover people will just get behind you and you will no longer receive any benefit. another big reason to not use roll into cover is sometimes the mechanic will want you to roll right into the middle of the fire, as a gunslinger it is generally better to be off to the side somewhere you can hide, or escape if you need to. That said, pvpers who completely unbind roll into cover, are missing out on a great utility mechanic of your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetNausea Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Anyone know why? Because it's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavensTerror Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Game tends to roll you in really bad spots. No LoS or into a group of enemies. Easier and safer just to drop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narfirill Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 wellbad positions of natural cover ... too far or too to the major fight areas.other players also raid those positions so you wont stay were you know you will not have a chance to be ignored. no significant benefit over portable. in fact portable at list give you a 360 degree protection and natural only a 60-90 degree arch in front of you. communication with server for engagement of natural cover make it slower as a reaction. portable is deployed instantly. and those are without thinking much about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escarrabutxaques Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I've been studying up on cover and how it works in PVP. In many videos, I don't see snipers/gunslingers rolling into natural cover... only popping their portable shields. Anyone know why? My understanding of the system is that they get better defense from natural cover than their shield... so what am I missing? Because of the positioning and how buggy rolling into cover is (ever been rooted/knocked back while performing "roll into cover animation" and then stuck in this animation? Yeah...right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Mobility largely. You get your procs and buffs about ever six seconds and it is far more beneficial to be able to engage on your own terms at all times. Being able to keep pace with your opponents is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdvesper Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Good players will use both, but keep in mind the limitations of natural cover - 1. You may not end up exactly where you want to be, and this will cause LOS issues. 2. Repositioning after entering natural cover will cause you to lose your "enter cover" buffs. For example, losing Ballistic Dampers is a big deal. 3. Currently, Entrench / Hunker Down is bugged in natural cover: it has a very high chance of simply not working. The cooldown will go off, the animation may or may not play, but you will still be vulnerable to CC. If you are planning to get into position and then pop Entrench / Hunker Down you need to make sure you are using portable cover as opposed to using natural cover. --- Natural cover is a great tool for moving around the map quickly: even though you are snared, you can "roll into cover" quite some distance away at instant speed to help you gain distance from the melee character who was attacking you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithy Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 There are some good times to use natural cover but not always. It's useless in huttball. What defines a good Sniper/GS from bad ones is know when to use it, how to use it, and how to use it for mobility purposes. Theres a few really good spots on Alderaan and Novare if u know when to use them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtherrSorven Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Wow.. this is the first thread I have seen with 100% useful replies and no flaming. To the replies... thanks for your responses. Understanding these mechanics is very helpful. I wasn't sure that you could get 360 degrees of 20% protection with the cover shield... though it was directional from the front. Bummer to hear abou the bugs with rolling to cover. If I ever roll and alt, it will be a cover class. Hopefully it's fixed by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpsmash Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Once in a while, natural cover will be good. But I think it's a mechanic better used by OP/Scoundrel who don't want to join a cluster of melee (for example in voidstar) and still benefit from pretty good ranged defense. Simply crouching is much more reliable. It allows you to keep your current position. Sometimes you want cover simply to reset ballistic dampers and get an instant snipe. Rolling into natural cover more often than not hinders you. Also, it often looks like **** : you're in "cover" but you're shooting an enemy behind you. I suggest using both on different keys. Sometimes the movement of rolling into cover will be good. Sometimes, even with OP/Scoundrel, you simply want to put a sabotage charge (and rolling into cover would be horrible). Edited May 17, 2012 by lpsmash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 My Sniper is low level, but basically as has been said it's a trade-off. Sometimes you roll into an area when you don't want to roll (into a group of players, or mobs, when you wanted to plant where you are) and also LOS issues can happen. On the other hand, you get better defences with natural cover AND something that I haven't seen mentioned yet: it provides protection against pulls. For instance, and I'm especially sensitive to this because my main is a PT, if you are in cover on the ramp as a sniper one of my favorite things to do at the opening is to stun you and pull you down into my team and watch the ensuing orgy of destruction If you're behind natural cover I can't stun and pull because you'll just get caught up on the sand bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trauglodyte Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Game tends to roll you in really bad spots. No LoS or into a group of enemies. Easier and safer just to drop it. This is pretty much it. I can't tell you how many times I've been in combat (before I changed to "cover in place") where I'd go to set up only to roll to the wrong spot and completely LOS myself from my target. Or worse, in a HB game, I was up on the middle rafter and aparently got too close in my positioning to the hard cover spot down below and rolled into a pack of 3 enemy. On top of that, as someone else said, natural/hard cover grants you 100% protection from physical ranged attacks. But that only includes the force user thrown light saber, BH/Trooper non-tech ranged attacks (of which few use them), and anything that isn't a probe/explosive attack from a Sniper (or the ranged base attacks from Ops/Scoundrels). That makes up such a small number of attacks from opponents that you might fight that it makes the overall concept rather lacking and thus not important. Its better to have control of where you Cover than to hope that you might gain a slight advantage only to possibly screw yourself in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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