Can SWTOR be Saved ?

[KhamG]

Not with the attitude displayed in that IGN interview. Good to know that there are 'plans' for space combat.

[JeramieCrowe]

Guild wars two doesn't have the trinity system in place, though they don't have as much of a focus on pve so it is a bit easier to implement.

 

Err... yes, they do, actually. It's more subtle, but it's there. They're even making more use of the fourth role of CC/Utility with Engineer.

[USMCjv]

Err... yes, they do, actually. It's more subtle, but it's there. They're even making more use of the fourth role of CC/Utility with Engineer.

No they do not, please point out one specific profession that is solely heals, tank, or dps. The combat is more about group dynamics and tactics without dedicated roles. http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

"We keep hearing other MMO developers espousing the "holy trinity" of DPS/ heal/tank with such reverence, as if this is the most entertaining combat they have ever played. Frankly, we don't like sitting around spamming "looking for healer" to global chat. That feels an awful lot like preparing to have fun instead of having fun.

 

Instead of the traditional trinity, every Guild Wars 2 profession is self reliant--not only can they all help each other by reviving in combat, but all professions have ways to build their characters differently to make them more versatile for group play.

 

Ultimately, DPS/heal/tank just didn't cut it in our book...er, game. Our players demand more from Guild Wars 2 and we intend to deliver on that demand instead of delivering more of the same. Not only is the trinity very formulaic, but it leaves out a lot of gameplay elements that make many other games so much fun. Instead, we break these trinity categories down into a cooler, more versatile system"

Edited May 22, 2012 by USMCjv

[JeramieCrowe]

I'm staying away from specifics because it's a concept at this time, not a design document.

 

Now to address other points. You say it would be niche. This is not a bad thing for someone who is targetting a specific niche. I know a concept like this would never get WoW numbers. It would be designed to NOT get WoW numbers so as to cater as close as possible to its target niche. Those that know a niche and can cater to it can see high profitability as well.

 

Oh, well, then I wish you all the luck.

 

On roles in a group. This would be up to the players. Think of it in a sort of military squad. You have a someone who is a Grunt, somone who is a medic. Someone who works demolitions. Someone who is a sniper, etc etc etc. They all can do the same basic things, but then also specialize in a particular field. That would be a similar to what I am aiming for while still allowing enough lattitude to the player to be able to diversify. At the same time, I also want to allow for "Jack of all trade, master of none" players. How an individual would feel unique is in what they are capable of bringing to the group in the various skills they have chosen to work with.

 

Nightmare to balance, for sure. You'd have your work cut out for you.

 

Just a note: Even a real military follows a loose trinity system. Send in the literal tanks and heavy infantry, followed by the lighter damage dealers with combat medics to assist and deal with injuries, followed by docs to literally revive those they can.

 

That's not the only strategy, by far, of course, but it's the typical one.

 

I do admit I was hoping that TESO would stick with their combat and "class" system they had in Skyrim and just...make it work. To have it where if you wanted to use a 2h sword, just pick one up and start swinging. Getting tired of melee? Pick up a bow and start shooting. But, alas, that's not to be the case.

[JeramieCrowe]

No they do not, please point out one specific profession that is solely heals, tank, or dps. The combat is more about group dynamics and tactics without dedicated roles.

"We keep hearing other MMO developers espousing the "holy trinity" of DPS/ heal/tank with such reverence, as if this is the most entertaining combat they have ever played. Frankly, we don't like sitting around spamming "looking for healer" to global chat. That feels an awful lot like preparing to have fun instead of having fun.

 

Instead of the traditional trinity, every Guild Wars 2 profession is self reliant--not only can they all help each other by reviving in combat, but all professions have ways to build their characters differently to make them more versatile for group play.

 

Ultimately, DPS/heal/tank just didn't cut it in our book...er, game. Our players demand more from Guild Wars 2 and we intend to deliver on that demand instead of delivering more of the same. Not only is the trinity very formulaic, but it leaves out a lot of gameplay elements that make many other games so much fun. Instead, we break these trinity categories down into a cooler, more versatile system"

 

I didn't say you HAD to, but it's there. Whether it's spread to everyone, or to one. Like I said, it's cleverly disguised, but it's there. However, it will be interesting to see how the players deal with that... I can almost guarantee they will still want dedicated roles. At least until the learning curve catches hold.

 

For PvE, I mean.

Edited May 22, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[USMCjv]

Oh, well, then I wish you all the luck.

 

 

 

Nightmare to balance, for sure. You'd have your work cut out for you.

 

Just a note: Even a real military follows a loose trinity system. Send in the literal tanks and heavy infantry, followed by the lighter damage dealers with combat medics to assist and deal with injuries, followed by docs to literally revive those they can.

 

That's not the only strategy, by far, of course, but it's the typical one.

 

I do admit I was hoping that TESO would stick with their combat and "class" system they had in Skyrim and just...make it work. To have it where if you wanted to use a 2h sword, just pick one up and start swinging. Getting tired of melee? Pick up a bow and start shooting. But, alas, that's not to be the case.

I'm not saying that they will not have people doing damage, healing, and mitigating damage that is just impossible in an MMO. The point is that they are no longer defined roles everybody uses their skills with teamwork and strategy. Is this going to make things challenging? yes but i think that this will be pretty fun and innovative. Will this be a niche game? Maybe, but there's nothing wrong with that.

[USMCjv]

I didn't say you HAD to, but it's there. Whether it's spread to everyone, or to one. Like I said, it's cleverly disguised, but it's there. However, it will be interesting to see how the players deal with that... I can almost guarantee they will still want dedicated roles. At least until the learning curve catches hold.

 

For PvE, I mean.

I'm not saying the roles won't exist in a way; you cannot remove the fact that people need to heal, do damage, and mitigate damage in an MMO setting. The "removal" of these roles is it is no longer specific to one person everyone will have to be able to work together and contribute a multitude of abilities to succeed.

Edited May 22, 2012 by USMCjv

[JeramieCrowe]

I'm not saying the roles won't exist in a way; you cannot remove the fact that people need to heal, do damage, and mitigate damage in an MMO setting. The "removal" of these roles is it is no longer specific to one person everyone will have to be able to work together and contribute a multitude of abilities to succeed.

 

Theoretically , it's possible. Everyone takes similar damage, does similar damage, heals for a similar amount, mitigates similar damage.

 

Then the strategy would be about bouncing aggro around, which would happen anyway if no one has threat generation. And then throw a boss on top of that that "learns" and changes, no set script (as Bluerodian said)?

 

You're right, it would only be a niche group that would be interested in a game like that, or at least stick to it. People, in general, WANT to specialize.

 

Thus, we get back to the question of this thread and how the discussions started: Can SWTOR be saved? "No, it's too much of a WoW clone (defined trinity roles, and mechanics thereof) and by getting rid of that, TOR can be saved." (paraphrased)

 

Yet by your own, and indeed Bluerodian's, admission, anything else would only appeal to a niche group. Thus, it would NOT save TOR. Especially since TOR is primarily PvE.

Edited May 22, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[USMCjv]

Theoretically , it's possible. Everyone takes similar damage, does similar damage, heals for a similar amount, mitigates similar damage.

 

Then the strategy would be about bouncing aggro around, which would happen anyway if no one has threat generation. And then throw a boss on top of that that "learns" and changes, no set script (as Bluerodian said)?

 

You're right, it would only be a niche group that would be interested in a game like that, or at least stick to it. People, in general, WANT to specialize.

 

Thus, we get back to the question of this thread and how the discussions started: Can SWTOR be saved? "No, it's too much of a WoW clone (defined trinity roles, and mechanics thereof) and by getting rid of that, TOR can be saved." (paraphrased)

 

Yet by your own, and indeed Bluerodian's, admission, anything else would only appeal to a niche group. Thus, it would NOT save TOR.

In regards to GW2 I believe we have both made accurate points and only the release of the game will truly show whether the system they are implementing will work well. About there being any such system for TOR I never said it should be implemented here, it would never in a million years work for this game and would only serve to make many people upset, I was merely pointing out that such a system is being implemented elsewhere and does exist, whether it is successful or not is another matter.

The things in my opinion that need to be fixed for TOR to be "saved" are server transfers(they said they are on the way), LFG (they adressed this but unless server transfers come first it will be useless on low pop servers; and its not x-server), no chat bubbles, poor fps issues, Too many loading screens (ping pong from ship-orbital station- planet), useful crafting, worlds that aren't so static (and sometimes like walking down a hallway), and a better functioning GTN. Some of these problems are being fixed "soon" and I do believe they realize the necessity of some of these features. What will happen to the game? At this point we can only really speculate.

Edited May 22, 2012 by USMCjv

[JeramieCrowe]

In regards to GW2 I believe we have both made accurate points and only the release of the game will truly show whether the system they are implementing will work well. About there being any such system for TOR I never said it should be implemented here, it would never in a million years work for this game and would only serve to make many people upset, I was merely pointing out that such a system is being implemented elsewhere and does exist, whether it is successful or not is another matter.

The things in my opinion that need to be fixed for TOR to be "saved" are server transfers(they said they are on the way), LFG (they adressed this but unless server transfers come first it will be useless on low pop servers; and its not x-server), no chat bubbles, poor fps issues, Too many loading screens (ping pong from ship-orbital station- planet), useful crafting, worlds that aren't so static (and sometimes like walking down a hallway), and a better functioning GTN. Some of these problems are being fixed "soon" and I do believe they realize the necessity of some of these features. What will happen to the game? At this point we can only really speculate.

 

I agree. One point: Stephen Reid mentioned on Twitter a few days ago that transfers are coming before 1.3 and its LFG tool.

Edited May 22, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[USMCjv]

I agree. One point: Stephen Reid mentioned on Twitter a few days ago that transfers are coming before 1.3 and its LFG tool.

Yeah I saw that, just wish it was X-server. Though with the transfers it just may work out, hopefully. Also he puts one heck of a lot of effort in to answer peoples tweets...kudos to him.

Edited May 22, 2012 by USMCjv

[Kubernetic]

Can someone explain me whats the issue with the engine? wasn't the hero engine the best thing that has ever happened since the discovery of bread in breakfast?

 

From what I understand, the key benefit to the Hero Engine from BioWare's perspective was what was touted as an innovative rapid prototyping system for the content. If I recall correctly, this was one of the first or perhaps one of the better systems that allowed you to develop in real time, without having to do nightly builds of the game world and so forth. So a designer could start placing things in the game world live, and designers around the corner would start seeing these new elements appear in the game world as they're moving around doing edits and so forth.

 

I would wager this is mostly based on BW's need for producing a LOT of cinematics for the game, and their wish to be able to maintain a strong pace with that. Comments that have bubbled up since have suggested that things like the Hero Engine Renderer has most likely been replaced, and Simutronics is no longer sure if any of the original renderer remains in the game. From the interview I read with the Hero Engine guy, BioWare was confident from the beginning that their engineers could rewrite whatever else in the code they needed it to do, but it was the design system that they wanted most.

 

Surely there are some drawbacks to the engine, with the I/O blocking calls apparently being one of them, but I'm pretty confident that the BW Engineering team can take care of that with enough time. In fact, they could be working on a new revision of the "HeroWare" engine that we wouldn't know about until they integrate it into the system.

[Goretzu]

Yep, for over a year now.

 

Correction, for over TWO years now.

 

EQ2 Pandas.

 

Panda kung-fu class.

 

Hehe I thought Ratonga's were a low.

 

On the upside EQ2 now seems to have Beastmasters...... I wonder if they are as OP as they were in EQ1.

[Drakkip]

Two things I'll categorical disagree with you on.

 

The community on TOR is 10 times better then in WoW. Not as tight knit as an EQ or SWG, but from an overall maturity/helpful standpoint, it's not even close to WoW. It's way, way better.

 

I also disagree about TOR evolving. It did - in the story/leveling aspect. Leveling in TOR is better than any other MMO out there. I suspect if you took a poll of long time gamers who played at least 3-4 MMOs over time, I'd bet your 1-50 (end level) experience here is hands down the best.

 

So don't sit here and call it a complete ripoff. Besides, while WoW has been continually dumbed down in character development over the past couple years due to Blizzard still failing at balancing classes, Bioware's done a FANTASTIC job balancing the classes and specs on the whole - and in a much, much less period of time.

 

I love this game, but it's just unplayable right now on empty servers more then anything.

 

That made me giggle.... because Mauraders so needed a buff in 1.2

[Drakkip]

I see you're staying away from specifics. But, no matter, specifics have been discussed before, and balancing a system that isn't based on a trinity, and still allow players to feel unique in a group, is all but impossible. Not saying it is impossible, but it hasn't been thought of yet.

 

The bottom line is two things: One, players need to have something familiar. EVE is a testament to this. Even though, at its core, EVE is still trinity-based, it's not familiar, thus the playerbase is niche.

 

And two, players WANT to have a specific role in a group. Having everyone basically being the same thing doesn't fly in an MMO. Oh, you might have a niche group that thinks it's nice, but it'll be short-lived even then. And, again, so far no other system other than trinity has addressed this. In fact, MMOs are actually moving toward a fourth distinct role: Utility and CC. Right now, it's tied into other roles, but its quickly becoming its own. Rift is a good example of this, and players are loving it.

 

It's all well and good to have ideas like this, but ideas that go through the evolution of providing what people will actually want and play, end up far from the original idea every time.

 

If by moving to you mean moving back to. Enchanters in EQ? This is not something new. In Vanilla WoW and BC WoW you needed CC to complete several dungeons.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Drakkip

[Goretzu]

That made me giggle.... because Mauraders so needed a buff in 1.2

 

They did do a reasonable job in Warhammer Online, although yes buff Marauders was an act of pure insanity.

[Raeln]

Answering the bolded part. That's exactly the question I'm asking. Why didn't TOR offer anything different of any merit? Story is good and all, but it's a finite resource and will be exhausted. The gameplay and environment are what keep people sticking around for a long time. The gameplay in TOR is no different than WoW. Nothing new to look at. nothing innovative. Nothing to set it apart.

 

When the only real innovative selling point to TOR is something I can get through watching Youtube for free, it's disappointing.

 

I disagree.

 

I enjoy the voice over. That's new.

I enjoy the companion system. That's new.

I enjoy the romantic involvement with companions. That's new.

I enjoy space missions, even if they are on rails. That's new.

I enjoy that I don't have to overhaul my UI after every little mini-patch because 3rd party addons are broken. That's new.

I enjoy that each class has it's own story. That's new.

I enjoy that every player has their personal ship. That's new.

I enjoy that crafting can automatically remove items from our cargo hold. That's new.

I enjoy the lack of addons in general and that damage meters are restricted so I can actually be in the /general channel without seeing a constant stream of DPS number bantering. That's new.

 

Now, as for the story. The difference between WoW and TOR is that you actually have something to talk about in TOR. If it were possible, in WoW you could level as a Warrior then have a GM flip a switch and become a priest at end game and the only impact it would have is maybe 5 quests total. I mean, I guess you could go back and heal that one little dude at the second quest hub. Most of the story in WoW doesn't even extend from one zone to the next. It's all contained in neat little zones with a single breadcrumb to lead you to the next zone.

 

You might not appreciate it and I'll be the first to say that not all of the classes have the best story, but there is at least a reason to traverse from planet to planet - be it curing space herpes or hunting down war criminals. There is a reason to be there that is relevant to your character personally - certainly not just because some druid has a buddy that he hasn't heard from in a few weeks.

[Raeln]

EQ = Forced grouping style leveling game that took a damn long time. Few quests. Very tight knit community. Raiding with 70+ people in a single non-instanced raid. PVP that allowed you to loot your opponent's corpse. Brutal Death penalties.

 

That style of PvP was only on 1 server.

 

WoW = Mostly solo leveling. Quest heavy and comparatively short. Very loose and hostile in-game community. Instanced Raiding with a progressively smaller amount of people. Little to no Death penalty. PVP that serves no real purpose.

 

Many would say WoW's PvP was more fun all around. In EQ, many players avoided PvP like the plague. At least some players in WoW attempted to find it.

 

In the end, does PvP ever serve a purpose? It's all just entertainment.

 

TOR = Mostly solo leveling. Quest heavy and comparatively short. Very loose and hostile in-game community. Instanced Raiding with a progressively smaller amount of people. Little to no Death penalty. PVP that serves no real purpose.

 

Progressively smaller amount of people? Allow me to tell you that the raiding circle of players in EQ1 was smaller and more difficult to come by for a progression raider in EQ than in WoW or TOR. Attunements made sure of that.

 

WoW evolved from EQ. TOR straight up ripped WoW off without further evolution.

 

I get that you hate TOR. My question is why are you still here, posting on the forums?

 

Inversely it could be indicative of a much deeper problem that all these companies have yet failed to recognize, and that is that WoW's style of gameplay is an evolutionary dead-end and is unable to evolve further, which means the only right and proper thing now is to let it slip away in to extinction.

 

Well, if it's a "dead-end", then it sure is a profitable "dead-end".

 

Perhaps it is you that have failed to recognize a few things?

[Lurchy]

SWTOR does not need to be saved as its not lost.

 

No matter what they do or do not do, the game will still exist with a reasonable size player base probably larger than some other much better MMO's out there or soon to be out there.

 

BECUZ IT IS STARWAAARRRZZZZ

 

I think this is how BW think of it.

[Raeln]

Yes it is, because it's the same crap warmed over again, and again, and again, and again, and again...

 

.... and it still sells in massive numbers.

 

Regardless if you are tired of it or not - the market isn't. There are still mountains of people that want it, either in the form of WoW, LotRO, EQ1/2, EVE or TOR.

[Raeln]

That's because Triple-A developers are too scared to deviate from the formula. And for the record, I'm not sick of MMOs, just WoW knock-offs. The problem is that it's all that seems to get released these days. had I the capitol, I'd hire the people and do it myself. I have the programming skills for it, but I sure as hell refuse to let myself be beholden to investors that have no sense of gaming.

 

Sounds like you already know no investors would be interested. I'm sure if you provided them with the results of your feasibility reports, they might at least listen though.

 

Funny how investors seem to want their investments to return a profit.

[Raeln]

Trinity exists with the concept of scripted events and threat tables. A tank to soak up damage and a healer to keep the tank alive. If you remove the scripted events you remove the need for a tank, and further remove the need for a dedicated healer.

 

Instead of scripted events you use reach outside of the gaming industry to use higher level neural networks and learning algorithms to create bosses that are adaptive and capable of learning and adjusting based upon the actions of the players which in turn would force the players to learn and adjust to the ever changing behavior of the boss. No two encounters with a boss mob would be the same and threat tables would be rendered obsolete because bosses ignore threat and respond to tactics.

 

By removing the trinity, you remove the need to have fixed classes and can return to a profession based character development system to allow players to develop their characters how they choose instead of in a fixed class.

 

The concept can be stretched out further to encompass the entire world this game would take place in. By assigning personality archtypes to NPCs and letting the AI brain make decisions for these NPCs based upon that personality, with the inclusions of memory for specific players and spatial relationships with other NPCs, you can create a world and narrative that is effectively self-writing with no two servers being identical. The developers would create the setting and the NPCs would self-populate and generate their own quests based upon both the environment and the players around them.

 

For instance, an ambitious NPC you snubbed earlier in the game would grow in to a warlord later in game and would remember you specifically, generating a narrative for you to follow that culminated in a battle between you and this warlord and all the steps in between. Your narrative would be unique to you and only you or the small group you frequently run with, with small branches in the narrative occurring when one of the players in the group is off by him or herself.

 

That's the concept. I'm already experimenting with the AI needed to make it work.

 

That's all well and good; however, if it's not fun, people will not play it.

 

I'll give you a hint - as fun as it sounds to you personally, to have bosses with adaptive learning strategies - that would surely spell out the end for raid content. Either combat would have to slow down to a turtle's pace for a raid team to adjust and compensate or people would walk away from your end game in droves.

 

There is a reason why you don't see raid bosses with random abilities. They are very frustrating. They increase a phenomenon known as raider attrition - which is already bad enough to deal with as is.

 

Do I think the trinity will go away at some point in the future? yes I do. It's not going to be for awhile though and it won't be adaptive or randomized bosses that replace it. It will simply be classes that are all capable of soaking a few hits before turning into a puddle of goo.

[Arunas]

No.

 

Fundamentally, any multiplayer game has to have either fun gameplay, progression or competition to survive. SWTOR has neither of these.

 

Gameplay is ultimatelly boring and frustrating in SWTOR. The legacy was supposed to make people want to re-roll but not many would bother with alts when you have to sludge through all the boring quests and mobs. Dealing with 100k HP trash in operations is a damn chore too. PvP, while it has some redeeming values, is ultimately plagued by gameplay issues such as CC and huge burst that make it frustrating experience.

 

With no ranked warzones there is no competition. Not much else to add there.

 

Progression in SWTOR is either boring war hero grind or easy ops content. Denova normal mode still gives rakata, my main had full set since February and black hole gear is usually a downgrade due to overabundance of trash stats like alacrity so you have to rip mods out or even take gear for different advanced class and fine-tune it for it be be worth upgrading. Nothing new in 1.3 ops-wise so nothing to look forward to.

[USMCjv]

I disagree.

 

I enjoy the voice over. That's new.

Agreed that was enjoyabel

I enjoy the companion system. That's new.

Yes it was new but I would have liked to see actual companion quests where you gon their quests with them. Also some choice in companions would be awesome.

I enjoy the romantic involvement with companions. That's new.

Biggest reason I went SW over SI love Jaesa

I enjoy space missions, even if they are on rails. That's new.

Enjoyed it for all of 5 seconds can't stand it, but if you like it more power to you.

I enjoy that I don't have to overhaul my UI after every little mini-patch because 3rd party addons are broken. That's new.

I wouldn't classify not having addons as something new.

I enjoy that each class has it's own story. That's new.

It was definately nice except to do other class stories after your first you have to replay the same world quests in the same order, it was fine twice but got irritating after that. Different zones for the same level would have been nice, pretty much impossible to add at this point; maybe in the next xpac. Also sometimes the class quests would feel as though you were doing them to take up time before you did what you were realy on the planet to do.

I enjoy that every player has their personal ship. That's new.

It was cool until I realized you can't do anything with it; minigames like pazaak or holo chess and the ability to customize interior would go a long way to making the game more enjoyable. As it is it feels like one more unnecessary step to ping pong ball between loading screens.

I enjoy that crafting can automatically remove items from our cargo hold. That's new.

That was a nice feature.

I enjoy the lack of addons in general and that damage meters are restricted so I can actually be in the /general channel without seeing a constant stream of DPS number bantering. That's new.

Again I don't really think you can classify that as new. Also, please dont flame me for this is an opinion, dps meters can be useful tools for raiders helping them improve. Though spamming in general chat is wrong I would rather see dps meters than they myriad of trolling and bigotry I currently see, this is based off personal experience on my current server and the couple others I was on before I rerolled there.

 

Now, as for the story. The difference between WoW and TOR is that you actually have something to talk about in TOR. If it were possible, in WoW you could level as a Warrior then have a GM flip a switch and become a priest at end game and the only impact it would have is maybe 5 quests total. I mean, I guess you could go back and heal that one little dude at the second quest hub. Most of the story in WoW doesn't even extend from one zone to the next. It's all contained in neat little zones with a single breadcrumb to lead you to the next zone.

 

I agree that lack of class quests in WoW was irksome, but I woul be remiss if I did not point out that, if you did read the quests, there was a lot of lore and interesting story; though the enjoyment of story is purely subjective. Also the ability to level in different zones at the same level is a strong point in that game, though this is less possible in the xpacs

 

You might not appreciate it and I'll be the first to say that not all of the classes have the best story, but there is at least a reason to traverse from planet to planet - be it curing space herpes or hunting down war criminals. There is a reason to be there that is relevant to your character personally - certainly not just because some druid has a buddy that he hasn't heard from in a few weeks.

 

I loved doing it the first time, both Imperial and Republic, but once you start leveling alts it feels to me as if I have to relive the same exact story. I am literally forced to progress the same way as my previous character through the same story, with minor differences in when you take side quests, and that really makes me feel as though it is no longer my story. The only change is the class quests which are far and few between, though they are welcomed relief.

My responses are in the red text, these are opinion based on my personal experience with the game.

Edited May 22, 2012 by USMCjv

[Elarion]

No.

 

Fundamentally, any multiplayer game has to have either fun gameplay, progression or competition to survive. SWTOR has neither of these.

 

Gameplay is ultimatelly boring and frustrating in SWTOR. The legacy was supposed to make people want to re-roll but not many would bother with alts when you have to sludge through all the boring quests and mobs. Dealing with 100k HP trash in operations is a damn chore too. PvP, while it has some redeeming values, is ultimately plagued by gameplay issues such as CC and huge burst that make it frustrating experience.

 

With no ranked warzones there is no competition. Not much else to add there.

 

Progression in SWTOR is either boring war hero grind or easy ops content. Denova normal mode still gives rakata, my main had full set since February and black hole gear is usually a downgrade due to overabundance of trash stats like alacrity so you have to rip mods out or even take gear for different advanced class and fine-tune it for it be be worth upgrading. Nothing new in 1.3 ops-wise so nothing to look forward to.

 

For me alts is all I have left. Neither of my 50s is decked out in full Campaign gear or anything (mostly Columi on both), but I have done all of the raid content and stopped myself short on working on a War Hero set for my Trooper. At this point I'm seriously wondering if I should cut my losses.

 

I was impatiently waiting for this game for so many years and whilst it's unlikely anything could have lived up to the hype, I still expected more. I hope it can be saved but I don't think I will be around to find out in the immediate future. Just pre-ordered GW2 and am deciding on if I should unsub SWTOR now and go back to LOTRO for a while or just wait.