Can SWTOR be Saved ?

[JeramieCrowe]

SWTOR was obviously made as a WOW killer/clone. Of course, this is also the reason for its failure.

 

Actually, it wasn't. I kind of feel for BioWare in this regard. Clearly, EA kept touting it as a WoW-killer, and BioWare kept having to come behind EA and say, "Uhhh...no, it's not, and we're not trying to compete with WoW". Both Docs kept saying that.

[SikrouDeco]

I love how people think that their experiences are shared by everyone else in exactly the same way. Your SWTOR experience is largely defined by which server you are on. I'm now on one of the aussie servers...Result is 2 instances of fleet because it's so busy. No shortage of people for flashpoints, heroics and other stuff..We even have people pugging the ops for HM and Nightmare. In short, it's probably the ideal situation for Bioware and one which in an ideal world, exactly how they envisaged the game experience to be.

 

It's obviously not replicated like that on all the other severs. To be honest, I really don't understand why those people who are going overboard in their criticism about dead servers just do not roll on a busy one. There is enough data out there now to know which are the main servers and if you've been playing on a dead server, your character is unlikely to be geared to the max, so you're not really losing much by just creating another toon. It doesn't take long to level and i already have 2 50's a 42 and now levelling a trooper who in the space of one evening I got to level 10....

 

Is it an ideal situation? No..but creating another character is probably preferable than whining and waiitng until the summer for transfers.

 

You're a gaming companies dream. They can treat you anyway they want and you'll smile. The rest of us, not so much. If I have to go to a new server and start over, I might as well look for a new game as well. Why do the same storyline over again?

Edited May 18, 2012 by SikrouDeco

[bobamech]

Actually, it wasn't. I kind of feel for BioWare in this regard. Clearly, EA kept touting it as a WoW-killer, and BioWare kept having to come behind EA and say, "Uhhh...no, it's not, and we're not trying to compete with WoW". Both Docs kept saying that.

 

Don't be so naive. How often do people pay for more than 1 MMO?

 

Of course this game was intended to compete with WoW. How else do you expect them to get people from WoW?

[JeramieCrowe]

Don't be so naive. How often do people pay for more than 1 MMO?

 

Of course this game was intended to compete with WoW. How else do you expect them to get people from WoW?

 

You think all MMOers are in WoW? Last I checked, WoW had 10.2 million subs, about half of those in China. The MMO genre has around 25 million subs. WoW does not have the market as cornered as you think it does.

 

It was a forgone conclusion that many subs would come from WoW, but was BioWare targeting WoW specifically like EA tried to make it sound? Not even remotely.

[KendrickX]

Actually, it wasn't. I kind of feel for BioWare in this regard. Clearly, EA kept touting it as a WoW-killer, and BioWare kept having to come behind EA and say, "Uhhh...no, it's not, and we're not trying to compete with WoW". Both Docs kept saying that.

 

Actually, it was. You don't spend that much money on something less than a WOW killer. And don't listen to the things companies say. Look at the things they do. SWTOR is a WOW clone. And it was made as a WOW killer.

[hulkweazel]

You think all MMOers are in WoW? Last I checked, WoW had 10.2 million subs, about half of those in China. The MMO genre has around 25 million subs. WoW does not have the market as cornered as you think it does.

 

It was a forgone conclusion that many subs would come from WoW, but was BioWare targeting WoW specifically like EA tried to make it sound? Not even remotely.

Agreed, that's why TOR copied entire classes and the entire talent system from WoW.

 

Oh wait.

[bobamech]

You think all MMOers are in WoW? Last I checked, WoW had 10.2 million subs, about half of those in China. The MMO genre has around 25 million subs. WoW does not have the market as cornered as you think it does.

 

It was a forgone conclusion that many subs would come from WoW, but was BioWare targeting WoW specifically like EA tried to make it sound? Not even remotely.

 

If that's the case, why did Swtor mimic much of WoW's game mechanics? Based on the stats you provided, WoW has 40% of the market. If that's not cornered, then I don't know what is.

[Skidrowbro]

Actually, it was. You don't spend that much money on something less than a WOW killer. And don't listen to the things companies say. Look at the things they do. SWTOR is a WOW clone. And it was made as a WOW killer.

 

Ya but it is going to be nearly impossible for any company to bring WoW to it's knees due to the fact of a lot of players have invested a lot of time and a hell of a lot of money into WoW that leaving it would be like cutting of their arm. Christ, you can google videos of people freaking out when they find out their accounts were cancelled by their parents. People have died for WoW. That's nuts

[Xrayll]

Short answer, no.

[JeramieCrowe]

Agreed, that's why TOR copied entire classes and the entire talent system from WoW.

 

Oh wait.

 

Actually, if you keep following it back, they copied it from EQ.

[JeramieCrowe]

If that's the case, why did Swtor mimic much of WoW's game mechanics? Based on the stats you provided, WoW has 40% of the market. If that's not cornered, then I don't know what is.

 

They didn't copy just WoW's game mechanics. They also copied EQ and EQ2 and Warhammer and some SWG, RIFT, and a few others. Does this mean that BioWare has targeted all these games specifically?

 

Give me a break.

[Mallorik]

They didn't copy just WoW's game mechanics. They also copied EQ and EQ2 and Warhammer and some SWG, RIFT, and a few others. Does this mean that BioWare has targeted all these games specifically?

 

Give me a break.

 

You do realize that they said they are specificaly targeting wow, to compete with wow and to beat wow, they also said they were borrowing tricks from wow.

 

LOL and besides Rift why would bioware target a bunch of over the hill and failed games?

 

Actually, if you keep following it back, they copied it from EQ.

 

I dont rememebr Eq1's talent tree, they had and AA system and eq didnt invent those classes, there are pleanty of things wow borrowed from eq, you just didnt name any of them.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Mallorik

[islander]

You're a gaming companies dream. They can treat you anyway they want and you'll smile. The rest of us, not so much. If I have to go to a new server and start over, I might as well look for a new game as well. Why do the same storyline over again?

 

 

Some people are just willing to lay back and get walked all over by the nature of their personalities.

[Azumio]

They didn't copy just WoW's game mechanics. They also copied EQ and EQ2 and Warhammer and some SWG, RIFT, and a few others. Does this mean that BioWare has targeted all these games specifically?

 

Give me a break.

 

Aren't you worried?

[JeramieCrowe]

You do realize that they said they are specificaly targeting wow, to compete with wow and to beat wow, they also said they were borrowing tricks from wow.

 

LOL and besides Rift why would bioware target a bunch of over the hill and failed games?

 

Annnnd you're not reading my posts again. I clearly stated that EA has, indeed, specifically targeted WoW. And also that the Doctors have had to come behind EA to clean up, stating specifically that they are NOT targeting WoW. BioWare is the one that has remained realistic about this. Definitely not EA.

 

I can even dig up quotes if you want.

 

 

 

I dont rememebr Eq1's talent tree, they had and AA system and eq didnt invent those classes, there are pleanty of things wow borrowed from eq, you just didnt name any of them.

 

You're actually making my point for me. All MMOs have borrowed from all other MMOs the features that work. All of them have. EQ2 came out with a kung-fu panda over a year ago. Guess who's copying that now? Hmm? Should we now start calling WoW an EQ2 clone? Because it would be quite accurate.

 

But we don't, because it's ridiculous.

Edited May 18, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[bobamech]

Annnnd you're not reading my posts again. I clearly stated that EA has, indeed, specifically targeted WoW. And also that the Doctors have had to come behind EA to clean up, stating specifically that they are NOT targeting WoW. BioWare is the one that has remained realistic about this. Definitely not EA.

 

I can even dig up quotes if you want.

 

You're actually making my point for me. All MMOs have borrowed from all other MMOs the features that work. All of them have. EQ2 came out with a kung-fu panda over a year ago. Guess who's copying that now? Hmm? Should we now start calling WoW an EQ2 clone? Because it would be quite accurate.

 

But we don't, because it's ridiculous.

 

We also don't compare future MMORPGs with not as popular MMORPGs because it would be ridiculous. Who wants to be mediocre?

 

Also, I would love to see you dig up quotes supporting your claim. If they weren't targeting WoW, I'd love to hear about why they added PvP and what they were going to do to differentiate this game from all the other MMORPGs out on the market. If they really were not targeting WoW to begin with, they should consider the current 1.3M subscription base to be a blessing.

Edited May 18, 2012 by bobamech

[Mallorik]

You're actually making my point for me. All MMOs have borrowed from all other MMOs the features that work. All of them have. EQ2 came out with a kung-fu panda over a year ago. Guess who's copying that now? Hmm? Should we now start calling WoW an EQ2 clone? Because it would be quite accurate.

 

But we don't, because it's ridiculous.

 

Yes smart Devs borrow good ideas from games that work. Stupid devs borrow everything thats bad and dated from other mmos and ignore all the new innovative stuff.

 

If blizzard released titan tomorrow do you think it would not have a cross server lfg tool, macros and dual specs?

[JeramieCrowe]

Yes smart Devs borrow good ideas from games that work. Stupid devs borrow everything thats bad and dated from other mmos and ignore all the new innovative stuff.

 

If blizzard released titan tomorrow do you think it would not have a cross server lfg tool, macros and dual specs?

 

Hard to say. No feature exists in a vacuum.

[JeramieCrowe]

We also don't compare future MMORPGs with not as popular MMORPGs because it would be ridiculous. Who wants to be mediocre?

 

Also, I would love to see you dig up quotes supporting your claim. If they weren't targeting WoW, I'd love to hear about why they added PvP and what they were going to do to differentiate this game from all the other MMORPGs out on the market. If they really were not targeting WoW to begin with, they should consider the current 1.3M subscription base to be a blessing.

 

As an MMO, they are targeting the MMO population. 40% of those exist in WoW, but are not exclusive to WoW. The other 60% do not play WoW. Thus, to say that BioWare is targeting specifically WoW, is to put your head in the sand.

 

Also, if you really read the whole report, especially page 7, they ARE happy about 1.3 million. They want more, of course, any company would. But 1.3 million is "on target" and TOR is "very profitable". Their words, not mine.

Edited May 18, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Razdek]

Yes smart Devs borrow good ideas from games that work. Stupid devs borrow everything thats bad and dated from other mmos and ignore all the new innovative stuff.

 

If blizzard released titan tomorrow do you think it would not have a cross server lfg tool, macros and dual specs?

 

Hmm yes but blizzard spent 4 years before they event thought of any of their new features. I played all through vanilla nad half of Bc before anything such as a lfg tool existed. And yes of course blizzard would have all of these features in their new games, they already know how to impliment it and have the source coding to do it... But u know that only took them 7 years to get it right.

 

So until SWTOR has been live for 4 years and a lfg tool and ranked pvp etc etc still has not been implimented, then we have a problem. Oh wait 1.3 has lfg tools. God people are impatient.

[Azumio]

It's highly doubtful.

 

I mean, Ranked Warzones might drum up some excitement (Provided they get here before the subs of the 6monthers+Free Month run out) but I don't see it exciting anyone enough to come back to SWTOR.

 

The only thing that can really, trully save it is:

 

Tera

The Secret World

ArcheAge

Guild Wars 2

Mist of Pandoria

 

All suck. Now, I've heard from beta testers that The Secret World wasn't that good, and Tera already flopped in Korea/Asia.. But even so, those games will take subs away from SWTOR.

 

For me? It's Guild Wars 2 and ArcheAge. I have no interest in Tera, I have mild interest in The Secret World and no interest in Mists of Pandoria.

[arkzehhh]

As an MMO, they are targeting the MMO population. 40% of those exist in WoW, but are not exclusive to WoW. The other 60% do not play WoW. Thus, to say that BioWare is targeting specifically WoW, is to put your head in the sand.

 

Also, if you really read the whole report, especially page 7, they ARE happy about 1.3 million. They want more, of course, any company would. But 1.3 million is "on target" and TOR is "very profitable". Their words, not mine.

 

1.3million aint accurate as of now, You'll see.

If the server transfer/merges dont happen ASAP amongst other stuff, they'll be lucky too still have half a million subscribers in the coming month(s)

Edited May 19, 2012 by arkzehhh

[Drakkip]

Hmm yes but blizzard spent 4 years before they event thought of any of their new features. I played all through vanilla nad half of Bc before anything such as a lfg tool existed. And yes of course blizzard would have all of these features in their new games, they already know how to impliment it and have the source coding to do it... But u know that only took them 7 years to get it right.

 

So until SWTOR has been live for 4 years and a lfg tool and ranked pvp etc etc still has not been implimented, then we have a problem. Oh wait 1.3 has lfg tools. God people are impatient.

 

I played atari 2600 and there was never a LFG tool... honestly comparing a current MMORPG release to a game that released 7.5 years is silly. It's like a car company releasing with standard 8 tracks... I can appreciate you feel the need to defend EA/BW, but honestly there really is no excuse for these features not to have been implemented at release. When WoW released the other games that I was playing at the time still didn't have LFG tools either. Apples and oranges. Games today DO have LFG tools and cross server grouping etc... not having these is akin to having an 8 track in your car.

 

Whoever was the head project manager for SWTOR clearly wasn't/isn't in touch with the MMO market as they didn't direct the project team to invest programming rescources into these types of functions. Other things that have been implemented are counter-intuitive. The legacy system encourages you to roll alts, but changing from a dead server punishes those players who happened to "choose" wrong at creation.

 

There are some things that are clearly innovative, like cinematic questing. I thought/think that is a great feature that really adds something to the whole levelling experience. Other areas however like PvP is a basic cut and paste from WoW. VoidStar = Strand of the Ancients, Alderann =< Arathi Basin, Huttball ~ Warsong Gultch, Expertise = Resilience. There really isn't anything that I can see that is original about the PvP.

 

The real downer for me however are the dead servers.... What would have made the game truly innovative would have been having 1 of each server type and then instancing the zones, that would have give the game a truly massive feeling.... Other games already have this so it isn't a matter of "IF" it can be done but rather assigning the rescources to make it happen.

 

I keep hoping on hope that there will be something that will change how I feel about the game, but everytime I log in, I feel less inclined to log back in the next time. To the point now where maybe I log in once a week to my empty server =/

[siegedeluxe]

All suck. Now, I've heard from beta testers that The Secret World wasn't that good, and Tera already flopped in Korea/Asia.. But even so, those games will take subs away from SWTOR.

 

Closed beta testers states otherwise... ps: the open beta weekend client is NOT the same they have in the closed beta. pps: please draw your own conclusion instead of basing it solely on other peoples opinions. =)

Edited May 19, 2012 by siegedeluxe

[Azumio]

Closed beta testers states otherwise... ps: the open beta weekend client is NOT the same they have in the closed beta. pps: please draw your own conclusion instead of basing it solely on other peoples opinions. =)

 

People I heard from was from Closed Beta.

 

Thanks by the way, I had no idea an Open Beta was going on. Gonna check it out.