The writing of Ord Mantell's missions

[RobertMcDonald]

Is it just me or is the writing of the missions on Ord Mantell some of the worst in The Old Republic? To me it seems incredibly cheesy, very contrived, and just generally lacking in the feel it seems it ought to be conveying given what's supposed to be happening there.

 

And some of the Light Side/Dark Side choices are ridiculous in the extreme. Giving a teenager money to get off planet is a Light Side choice but encouraging him to go back to his family is a Dark Side choice? What? And orphans... don't get me started on orphans.

 

Just seemed rather jarring to me given how the writing in TOR is generally rather good.

[ZirusZero]

Republic Medicine quest

/theend

[iamthehoyden]

Is it just me or is the writing of the missions on Ord Mantell some of the worst in The Old Republic? To me it seems incredibly cheesy, very contrived, and just generally lacking in the feel it seems it ought to be conveying given what's supposed to be happening there.

 

And some of the Light Side/Dark Side choices are ridiculous in the extreme. Giving a teenager money to get off planet is a Light Side choice but encouraging him to go back to his family is a Dark Side choice? What? And orphans... don't get me started on orphans.

 

Just seemed rather jarring to me given how the writing in TOR is generally rather good.

 

It's a dark side choice because

 

if you take it, you find out that his parents will hate him forever for being a Seperatist if he goes back.

Not that you could possibly KNOW that unless you've done exactly that on a previous toon, but whatever. Somehow you're supposed to see the future.

[Tuscad]

 

if you take it, you find out that his parents will hate him forever for being a Seperatist if he goes back.

Not that you could possibly KNOW that unless you've done exactly that on a previous toon, but whatever. Somehow you're supposed to see the future.

 

Still stupid, lol. I disagreed with the people that wrote the choice for Ord Mantell a lot, especially the Medicine Quest.

[RobertMcDonald]

It's a dark side choice because

 

if you take it, you find out that his parents will hate him forever for being a Seperatist if he goes back.

Not that you could possibly KNOW that unless you've done exactly that on a previous toon, but whatever. Somehow you're supposed to see the future.

 

Right. But LS/DS should be about intent, not consequences. Especially ones you can't foresee like that. (Reminds me, in fact, of a Light Side option on Nar Shaddaa in KotOR2 regarding beggars and money...)

[Skolops]

Right. But LS/DS should be about intent, not consequences. Especially ones you can't foresee like that. (Reminds me, in fact, of a Light Side option on Nar Shaddaa in KotOR2 regarding beggars and money...)

 

Uhhh....

 

 

I seem to remember it saying he'd be unwelcome at home because of his involvement with the separatists before making the choice. I certainly knew about this when making my decision, even having never played through it before.

 

[Mutive]

Uhhh....

 

 

I seem to remember it saying he'd be unwelcome at home because of his involvement with the separatists before making the choice. I certainly knew about this when making my decision, even having never played through it before.

 

 

I remember him mentioning that as well. Plus he goes on an on about how he'll refuse to go back if you don't give him money. So it's basically "give him money to get off the planet" or "force him to stay in this war as a child soldier". Giving him money is definitely the light side choice there.

 

 

I actually liked a lot of the Ord Mantell quests. They really established - early on - that the Republic was not this paragon of goodness and light, that there are a lot of problems in working in a disorganized, often corrupt government, and that being in a war zone is tough. (And that there are often hard decisions to make.) I preferred those a lot to the "let's bathe in the blood of our foes" Sith quests (which honestly felt so over the top evil to me that they came off as cartoonish) or the "let's save kittens!" Jedi quests.

[iamthehoyden]

I think that got to me on Ord Mantell as a trooper, at least, was being called names. It was like every quest giver you ran into was "Republic scum" "Republic dogs", and I REALLY wanted a conversation option along the lines of "call me that one more time, I dare you, please."

[grandmthethird]

i found it doesn't get any better, i'm on belsavis and

 

 

a senator is using prisoners in some king of war game experiment, you find out about it, and are told if news of this got out there would be up roar, planets would een leave the republic over it.

 

darkside keep the secret

 

lightside expose him

 

now i know what he did is bad, but how is helping to break up the republic, or at least encouraging planets to leave lightside? it would seem like i'm doing the empires job for them

 

 

[Halinmonk]

@Grand

 

Well the ideals of the republic is transparency and freedom of speech: it's like that one Coroscant quest, you can't cheat or game the system, not if you want it to really work. If you believe in the Republic and it's ideals upholding those ideals comes before the convince of the state or person.

[RobertMcDonald]

I think that got to me on Ord Mantell as a trooper, at least, was being called names. It was like every quest giver you ran into was "Republic scum" "Republic dogs", and I REALLY wanted a conversation option along the lines of "call me that one more time, I dare you, please."

 

Or the Separatists calling themselves "Separatists." I'm pretty sure they'd refer themselves by something more noble-sounding, like "freedom fighters" or something. I dunno, I just never bought the Separatists as a coherent independence-movement,

Empire-backed or otherwise.

 

 

Also, I hope Ord Mantell isn't a harbinger for the rest of the Trooper story, because I seriously felt like they had no idea how to write a military character. Chain-of-command? Being on-duty? None of these things seemed to exist for me on Ord Mantell. I got the feeling I knew what they were driving at (e.g., an Apocalypse Now-type story), but it completely failed to convey that.

Edited May 15, 2012 by RobertMcDonald

[Tuscad]

i found it doesn't get any better, i'm on belsavis and

 

 

a senator is using prisoners in some king of war game experiment, you find out about it, and are told if news of this got out there would be up roar, planets would een leave the republic over it.

 

darkside keep the secret

 

lightside expose him

 

now i know what he did is bad, but how is helping to break up the republic, or at least encouraging planets to leave lightside? it would seem like i'm doing the empires job for them

 

 

Take solace in the fact that the lightside ending is always canon in every game so far, thus I doubt your actions will break up the Republic. Oops, choices don't matter.

[RobertMcDonald]

Take solace in the fact that the lightside ending is always canon in every game so far, thus I doubt your actions will break up the Republic. Oops, choices don't matter.

 

On a related note, I would like to be able to "fail" discussions. If I piss an NPC off enough (which my DS IA certainly did a lot), they shouldn't just keep plowing ahead and give me a mission. If I smart-off enough, I want to have to do the whole thing over again.

[OmySpy]

Trooper: "Goodbye, crazy lady"

 

One of my favorite lines in the game.

[Varium]

i found it doesn't get any better, i'm on belsavis and

 

 

a senator is using prisoners in some king of war game experiment, you find out about it, and are told if news of this got out there would be up roar, planets would een leave the republic over it.

 

darkside keep the secret

 

lightside expose him

 

now i know what he did is bad, but how is helping to break up the republic, or at least encouraging planets to leave lightside? it would seem like i'm doing the empires job for them

 

 

 

Actually if you keep it secret you get email from him telling how he sold the information to private corporation and didn't give it to republic. The reason the lightside choice why you expose him is because he was working outside ethics and Authorization from Republic.

 

Edited May 15, 2012 by Varium

[iamthehoyden]

Also, I hope Ord Mantell isn't a harbinger for the rest of the Trooper story, because I seriously felt like they had no idea how to write a military character. Chain-of-command? Being on-duty? None of these things seemed to exist for me on Ord Mantell. I got the feeling I knew what they were driving at (e.g., an Apocalypse Now-type story), but it completely failed to convey that.

 

I don't have any personal military background, so I can't speak to any kind of authenticity, but once you get shifted to Garza's command it's very much about following orders and chain of command. If you don't follow orders you get chewed out, etc etc. (I'm not as ruthless as Garza would like so I get chewed out pretty regularly.)

 

On Ord Mantell, it felt very much like there were a scattered group of honest soldiers in a sea of corruption, and nothing was really clear, including who was in charge.

[RobertMcDonald]

I don't have any personal military background, so I can't speak to any kind of authenticity, but once you get shifted to Garza's command it's very much about following orders and chain of command. If you don't follow orders you get chewed out, etc etc. (I'm not as ruthless as Garza would like so I get chewed out pretty regularly.)

 

Well, nor do I, to be honest. All my familiarity with the military comes from my degree in history and fictional portrayals of the military (film, television, books). Even though I'm "just a civilian," I can tell that demoting someone from Lieutenant (an officer rank) to Sergeant (an enlisted rank) and then sticking him under the command of a Sergeant who was just promoted to Lieutenant and used to be his subordinate is absurd.

 

Also, soldiers don't usually work alone in the field—they're part of a fireteam, a squad, etc. So while it makes perfect sense for my Jedi Knight or Imperial Agent to be running around with only one person doing whatever, it doesn't make any sense for an infantryman to be doing the same. The one saving grace here, of course, is that the Trooper is said to be Special Forces, which gives the writers some leeway.

 

I dunno, I'm not sure the Trooper fits in an MMO where every other class in the game isn't military. This wasn't evident to me until I started playing one, but I worry that it's just not going to work for me. (And, really, this deserves to be part of another topic than this one. )

Edited May 15, 2012 by RobertMcDonald

[iamthehoyden]

Well, nor do I, to be honest. All my familiarity with the military comes from my degree in history and fictional portrayals of the military (film, television, books).

 

/waves to the fellow historian

 

Also, soldiers don't usually work alone in the field—they're part of a fireteam, a squad, etc. So while it makes perfect sense for my Jedi Knight or Imperial Agent to be running around with only one person doing whatever, it doesn't make any sense for an infantryman to be doing the same.

 

Not to give too much away, but a lot of the trooper story is hero-gathering. Pulling together the best of the best to fight against the Empire. I do wish there were more parts with the whole of Havoc Squad cause those rare times when they're all in one place are really damn awesome.

[Pubsam]

Well, nor do I, to be honest. All my familiarity with the military comes from my degree in history and fictional portrayals of the military (film, television, books). Even though I'm "just a civilian," I can tell that demoting someone from Lieutenant (an officer rank) to Sergeant (an enlisted rank) and then sticking him under the command of a Sergeant who was just promoted to Lieutenant and used to be his subordinate is absurd.

 

Also, soldiers don't usually work alone in the field—they're part of a fireteam, a squad, etc. So while it makes perfect sense for my Jedi Knight or Imperial Agent to be running around with only one person doing whatever, it doesn't make any sense for an infantryman to be doing the same. The one saving grace here, of course, is that the Trooper is said to be Special Forces, which gives the writers some leeway.

 

I dunno, I'm not sure the Trooper fits in an MMO where every other class in the game isn't military. This wasn't evident to me until I started playing one, but I worry that it's just not going to work for me. (And, really, this deserves to be part of another topic than this one. )

 

Yeah, you need to suspend disbelief a bit. I wish we could run around with more than one companion to get a real squad feeling going, and they do try to give that to you in at least one of the trooper class quests, but no.

 

As for Jorgan, it is a bit awkward, but sticking him in Havoc is advantageous to Garza at least. You and him are among the few people who know of the rest of Havoc's defection, and she wants to keep it that way. Also the squad is extremely short-staffed at that moment, and he's on the short list of people capable, willing, and importantly, there.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Pubsam

[RobertMcDonald]

Yeah, you need to suspend disbelief a bit. I wish we could run around with more than one companion to get a real squad feeling going, and they do try to give that to you in at least one of the trooper class quests, but no.

Again, at least you're not a run-of-the-mill infantryman (or "trooper," as it were ), but as it is... I'm not sure a character like that can be put in an MMO and used the same way that Jedi, Sith, spies, and Bounty Hunters can.

 

As for Jorgan, it is a bit awkward, but sticking him in Havoc is advantageous to Garza at least. You and him are among the few people who know of the rest of Havoc's defection, and she wants to keep it that way. Also the squad is extremely short-staffed at that moment, and he's on the short list of people capable, willing, and importantly, there.

Well, they could've avoided the problem simply by never making Jorgan your superior. It's just sloppy writing. Rather par for the course on Ord Mantell, though. :-/

Edited May 15, 2012 by RobertMcDonald

[Pubsam]

Well, they could've avoided the problem simply by never making Jorgan your superior. It's just sloppy writing. Rather par for the course on Ord Mantell, though. :-/

 

Meh, doesn't particularly bother me. Jorgan's one of the better written companions IMO, and the role reversal definitely influences his character and your relationship with him. If he, say, was a Sergeant working with you under a different Lieutenant (who would take the fall for the defections), his assignment to you just would've been rather matter-of-fact and boring. As it is it's a little far-fetched (although this is special forces, and it definitely is in Garza's character do something weird and extreme like this, so I'd perhaps even argue that), but I'd say the sacrifice is worth it for an interesting companion relationship.

[RobertMcDonald]

Meh, doesn't particularly bother me. Jorgan's one of the better written companions IMO, and the role reversal definitely influences his character and your relationship with him. If he, say, was a Sergeant working with you under a different Lieutenant (who would take the fall for the defections), his assignment to you just would've been rather matter-of-fact and boring.

Not necessarily. There are a number of ways to make him "above" the PC without outranking him/her. For instance, he can have more experience and feel like you're too green to be promoted to Lieutenant and feel like he's getting passed over for political reasons.

[Pubsam]

Not necessarily. There are a number of ways to make him "above" the PC without outranking him/her. For instance, he can have more experience and feel like you're too green to be promoted to Lieutenant and feel like he's getting passed over for political reasons.

 

Not to argue a trivial point, but I do like arguing trivial points... but a Sergeant stationed on craphole Ord Mantell would likely look up to someone picked up for Havoc Squad, and they would certainly never expect to be recruited and simultaneously promoted above the previous Havoc Squad member. I mean how can he feel passed over for a Havoc Squad promotion when he's just some random Ord Mantell soldier? He'd probably be thrilled just to be recruited. Opposed to Jorgan's nuanced reaction: upset about demotion, happy to be off Ord Mantell, skeptical of you, happy to be doing something that matters again, resolved to make the best of it, etc.

 

Jorgan is rough on you and thinks you're green because he has experience commanding a spec ops squad, and was on Ord Mantell as an officer in charge of a lot more people. He's got the qualifications but not the fortune to lead Havoc. I'm trying to imagine some situation where Jorgan wouldn't be in charge of you, but maintain the dynamic I mentioned earlier, but can't come up with anything compelling/believable.

 

Probably just hammering this since I like Ord Mantell alright. A lot of grey on this planet. A highlight was talking to the drunk ethics officer. I mean not the best writing in the game or anything, but I remember liking it better than Tython, for example.