Dear Bioware - I don't want your stinking Recruit Gear.

[Mirthadrond]

Imagine there's a kid, 12 years old, and a kid, 19 years old.

 

They both got interested in dating cool women and having great se... ermm... "courthship". The 19 year old kid spent a lot of time trying to meet a nice girl, met a lot of failures, but finally meets a nice girl, and after a few dates, finally succeeds in getting lai... ermmm.. having a nice "courtship".

 

The 12 year old also tries to meet many girls, and may even succeed in getting a girl friend... but unfortunately, he's too young to have "courtship". So, he waits some more years, reaches adulthood.

 

Oh yes, it's totally unfair that while the 19 year old and 12 year old has been wanting to meet ladies for similar period of time, the 12 years old has to wait more years, and then try to get a girl of his own again. He should be ready to score and given a girl the moment he turns an adult.

 

 

Are you saying the 19 year old wasn't interested in girls at the age of 12???

 

Well.... I suppose that's possible... but not likely unless he 'really' liked boys.

 

Beyond that... I experienced my first se......... er... *courtship* encounter when I was 14. So? The 19 year old boy is doing something wrong. Perhaps it's a L2P issue??

[iiell]

How does one 'instantly' get 12,000 WZ comms exactly? Tell us your secret!!

 

One doesn't (yet), but tell me that isn't what you want...

[lpsmash]

I agree - let us buy the gear as we're levelling.

 

This.

The cap is low and I'll have 20k warzone medpacs by the time I hit 50. BM is not even the top notch gear. I don't see why I should go into WZ half-naked and be useless to my team until I grind the gear. It serves no purpose and is extremely frustrating.

Edited May 15, 2012 by lpsmash

[dcgregorya]

OP is right. 2 Days to grind BM gear is too long! I want it now! now! now!

 

You call yourself a dedicated PvPer.... What you are complaining about taking 2 days to get, took people 2 months, yet you feel so much injustice by this you write this post... Talk about entitlement. If you are such a dedicated PvPer you will spend any comms on ranked comms for your WH gear if you are capped. No big deal....to most.

 

It took a while to get champ and it took longer to get BM but BM was never much better than champ was. Now champ is garbage, recruit is garbage and BM and better is all that matters.

[NyteSabre]

I am glad you unsubbed too.

 

Shows how short sighted you are that you like people unsubbing from the game you are still playing lol. Yeah, we should listen to this guy for game improvements....

 

In 3 hours ill be having some very awesome fun, and you will be stuck here playing this and whining on this thread....Oh wait a min, you won't be playing cause there is a maintenance isn't there? So guess you will just be whining on here lmao.

[Poxheart]

Can't be bothered to read the entire thread. Just wanted to chip in to say that as somebody who queued regularly, but didn't get battlemaster gear before the patch, I'm pretty annoyed by this garbage recruit gear. The very least BW could have done was bump the expertise on Cent/Champ gear so it was comparable to recruit gear just so the people who PVP'd but didn't get to battlemaster status weren't totally screwed over by the patch.

[Asvoth]

I agree the recruit gear is a good thing. I've wanted to see this available since the 50s bracket was introduced. It absolutely sucked entering the war zones with a fresh 50. Even if you saved up merc and wz comms plus stashed a champion bag in the bank so you could open 6 champ bags right when you hit 50, and got lucky to pull some tokens with the commendations you were still way light on expertise. Granted by that time you should have had enough experience in PVP with your character to not be a huge hindrance to your group you were still at a massive disadvantage to some schmuck that afk farmed valor and comms to be in decent gear.

 

I didn't even mind the valor change. I managed to get two champions and a battlemaster beforehand so I know how bad that grind sucked. Now I find myself on alts in the 10-49 bracket capping out on the valor/rank limit after only a couple war zones. Suddenly I'm reminded of going from rank 59 to 60 valor and laugh. Then I click on the battlemaster gear vendor and suddenly the laughter stops and any smile fades. Seeing the cost of full set and thinking about the amount of commendations spent on merc comms and champ bags to acquire gear with lesser stats.

 

Upon second glance at the vendor I notice that there isn't even a valor requirement on battlemaster gear. It warms my heart knowing I fought tooth and nail in war zones for hours and hours building up valor to get gear that anyone can now get as long as they are level 50 and have earned some commendations. Its all good though I can focus on the new goal of getting to rank 70 valor for the war hero gear while farming the commendations needed for the battlemaster gear along the way.

 

I like having goals and things to work for. In both PVP and PVE improving your gear improves your effectiveness, and when combined with skill makes you a formidable opponent. Unfortunately I look at grinding to 70 valor as a rather daunting task when considering the time and effort invested prior to seeing any real rewards.

 

At valor rank 40 you can start to stockpile ranked war zone commendations to help get into some better gear once you do hit 50. New titles every 10 ranks is cool but they serve no real purpose. You can grab a speeder as you go but again it serves no real purpose when you can buy an equivalent speeder from a vendor when you reach the requirements needed to use that rank of speeder no matter how you got it.

 

Whether earned on the way to 50 or after you hit 50 you have still put the time and effort into PVP to earn that valor rank. So why not make it worth something?

 

A couple ideas:

 

A) Increase the commendation cap every 10 valor ranks. For example at valor rank 1-9 you can hold 500 commendations. Then at rank 10 increase that amount to 1000 and so on.

 

B) Increase a players base expertise stat with every valor rank, or 5 to 10 ranks.

 

I also liked the Legacy commendation cap suggestion which could work with this as well. Have it increase the base commendation cap which would then increase at the same increment every 10 valor ranks. Perhaps having it unlock at valor rank 50 which would require you to have a level 50 in order to achieve it or something like that.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited May 15, 2012 by Asvoth

[Mirthadrond]

One doesn't (yet), but tell me that isn't what you want...

 

 

Had you actually 'read' my original post, you would have clearly seen what I asked for, and had you continued to actually read the thread, you'd see how others have clarified and supported my position.

 

Let me guess, you just want to spank fresh 50's?? Eh? Make them pay their dues? Because you worked 'oh so hard' for your gear?

 

Do yourself a favor, don't try an 'read between the lines' so much, or you'll end up like that poor 12 year old boy in the previous post, unlucky and frustrated.

[xxdragonragexx]

Had you actually 'read' my original post, you would have clearly seen what I asked for, and had you continued to actually read the thread, you'd see how others have clarified and supported my position.

 

Let me guess, you just want to spank fresh 50's?? Eh? Make them pay their dues? Because you worked 'oh so hard' for your gear?

 

Do yourself a favor, don't try an 'read between the lines' so much, or you'll end up like that poor 12 year old boy in the previous post, unlucky and frustrated.

 

If you've been pvping casually ever since you started this thread or ever since you started whining, you would have received half battlemaster gear already.

Thread Lesson: Less QQ and More Pew Pew

[Mirthadrond]

Shows how short sighted you are that you like people unsubbing from the game you are still playing lol. Yeah, we should listen to this guy for game improvements....

 

In 3 hours ill be having some very awesome fun, and you will be stuck here playing this and whining on this thread....Oh wait a min, you won't be playing cause there is a maintenance isn't there? So guess you will just be whining on here lmao.

 

Not at all. You un-subbing works to my advantage. Letting YOUR dollars speak ALSO speaks for me and every other player in the game.

You cancelling your account affects their bottom line, so.... in turn they will make adjustments to their game, and take player feedback seriously.

 

So... thank you. Go have fun doing whatever it was you planned on doing.

[Mirthadrond]

If you've been pvping casually ever since you started this thread or ever since you started whining, you would have received half battlemaster gear already.

Thread Lesson: Less QQ and More Pew Pew

 

Yo... genius. The character I'm working on, and have posted about in this thread, is NOT lvl 50 yet. So... no.. I would not be 1/2 to BM gear yet. A full set is 12050 WZ comms. The most I can save at any given time is 2000 and I can NOT spend them on BM gear until I hit lvl 50.

 

As myself, and others in support of this thread have ALREADY POINTED OUT, we've spend 2X, 3X the amount of comms it takes to buy BM gear, BEFORE we even hit lvl 50. Many of us at valor 50 the moment we hit 50.

 

You're a smart one.

Lesson for you: It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and leave no doubt.

[xxdragonragexx]

Commendation cap is there to prevent botters and players from botting 24/7.

This is actually the only MMO game with gear progression that manages to deter botters.

If they take out that cap, pvp in this game will be filled with more bots. Stop whining. All mechanics in this game have a purpose even if your brain cannot comprehend it.

[DarkDruidSS]

Yo... genius. The character I'm working on, and have posted about in this thread, is NOT lvl 50 yet. So... no.. I would not be 1/2 to BM gear yet. A full set is 12050 WZ comms. The most I can save at any given time is 2000 and I can NOT spend them on BM gear until I hit lvl 50.

 

As myself, and others in support of this thread have ALREADY POINTED OUT, we've spend 2X, 3X the amount of comms it takes to buy BM gear, BEFORE we even hit lvl 50. Many of us at valor 50 the moment we hit 50.

 

You're a smart one.

Lesson for you: It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and leave no doubt.

 

 

umm... I hope there isn't 9 pages of crap before someone told you 2k comms isn't that current cap anymore for pre-50. 40+ you can convert WZ comms to ranked comms just like we used to convert WZ comms to Merc comms except the ranked comms cap is 3,500. My sniper is currently level 44 and I have 3,420 ranked comms. Soon i will cap out ranked and get my 2k wz comms. Ranked comms effectively convert to wz comms 1:1... so that's 5,500 wz comms at fresh level 50.

 

That is almost all 4 of the most expensive BM items at 50. I think it works out that I am 100-200 WZ short of being able to buy the main hand weapon, offhand weapon, helm and chest as a fresh 50. I'm sorry.. but that is stupid easy to do and we shouldn't get more just for hitting 50 and preferring to pvp over pve.

 

So no it doesn't need to be easier. At 50 i can easily afford my skills and recruit gear... once all that is bought then it is just converting to BM gear over time... with all the expensive 1k+ BM pieces bought.. I can probably get full BM geared in like a week.. probably less. I don't see how that is hard for anyone.

[Sporticus]

Can I paraphrase this for you? "I want fresh level 50 cannon fodder darn it."

 

As long as you don't mind your paraphrasing being both wrong and infantile hyperbole, knock yourself out .

[Mirthadrond]

 

A couple ideas:

 

A) Increase the commendation cap every 10 valor ranks. For example at valor rank 1-9 you can hold 500 commendations. Then at rank 10 increase that amount to 1000 and so on.

 

B) Increase a players base expertise stat with every valor rank, or 5 to 10 ranks.

 

I also liked the Legacy commendation cap suggestion which could work with this as well. Have it increase the base commendation cap which would then increase at the same increment every 10 valor ranks. Perhaps having it unlock at valor rank 50 which would require you to have a level 50 in order to achieve it or something like that.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Some good ideas here. The increase of comms per valor rank is good. Adding more for legacy lvls is a nice touch as well.

These would allow Bioware the opportunity to increase WZ cap, without offending all the 50's who farmed Ilium....... er.. I mean... 'earned' their BM gear.

(for the record, I don't care if they offend anyone, it's their game)

 

Regardless: Solid ideas. If it was implemented 'today' I'd be happy as a lark. Currently lvl 45, 45 valor and 21 legacy.

[xxdragonragexx]

System is fine as it is. They need to focus more on bringing in more pvp content.

Let the IWANTTHISNOW crowd quit. They are a plaque and cancer to all MMO games anyway.

[looneybinjim]

I would be in favor of a Legacy unlock that increases your maximum commendation amount. That way first time players will still be limited forcing them to learn their class as they gear up while people rolling alts will be able to stockpile commendations and gear up at 50.

 

i like this idea the most. that or perhaps an ability to trade either comms or actual pvp gear from one legacy toon to another. so you could grind out gear for your new toon on your main and mail it to your alts to use when they hit 50. this way you still do all the grinding, just you do it on a character that is already level 50 and geared.

 

a new player however SHOULD have to go through the grind though tbh. it doesnt take long to grind out the gear in the big scheme of things and ots a learning experiance in and of itself - you tend to learn to play a little smarter when you die easier.

 

im all in favour of making the grind easier for alts, for main characters, the grind is fine the way it is.

[Mirthadrond]

umm... I hope there isn't 9 pages of crap before someone told you 2k comms isn't that current cap anymore for pre-50. 40+ you can convert WZ comms to ranked comms just like we used to convert WZ comms to Merc comms except the ranked comms cap is 3,500. My sniper is currently level 44 and I have 3,420 ranked comms. Soon i will cap out ranked and get my 2k wz comms. Ranked comms effectively convert to wz comms 1:1... so that's 5,500 wz comms at fresh level 50.

 

That is almost all 4 of the most expensive BM items at 50. I think it works out that I am 100-200 WZ short of being able to buy the main hand weapon, offhand weapon, helm and chest as a fresh 50. I'm sorry.. but that is stupid easy to do and we shouldn't get more just for hitting 50 and preferring to pvp over pve.

 

So no it doesn't need to be easier. At 50 i can easily afford my skills and recruit gear... once all that is bought then it is just converting to BM gear over time... with all the expensive 1k+ BM pieces bought.. I can probably get full BM geared in like a week.. probably less. I don't see how that is hard for anyone.

 

Ya... nothing but whining and complaining. Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

Ranked comms? Really? Oh gee golly mister, I didn't know that!!

Let me guess? You're one of those people that think 'Title Loans" are a good deal? Am I right??

[Sporticus]

Ha ha ha... Really? What I consider gamers asking for rewards to be handed out for free is the reward of doing well in PvP without needing any skill and only your gear gap to fall back on.

 

Where did I ask for any of that? Oh right, I didn't. The attitude that everyone is entitled to equal footing as soon as they enter a given tier of PvP is about as ridiculous as thinking everyone on a sports team deserves a trophy just for playing. It is, admittedly, a dilemma that will likely never be solved in MMO's. Go back and read the parts of my post that you were too dense to take in. I do want fun PvP, and lopsided wins/losses aren't it. However, everything in an MMO needs incentive attached to it in order to keep people interested, and what is being discussed here is removing said incentive. Sure I PvP for fun, but if you remove the incentive then more people will leave than already are out of boredom.

 

Dear devs I cannot PvP on equal footing... so please let me get free wins if I sit there a play non-stop for x period of time. And lets name that no skill over and over again a grind, then pretend that grinding is "hard work"

 

This is the perfect example of what I was talking about. Nothing in this game is hard work. Nothing. The OLD gear grind to BM sucked, and IT wasn't hard work. The new path to BM gear is so quick that the only grind that anyone could name that was shorter was for a game that HAD NO GRIND. This attitude is what I was talking about because at the tiniest, most miniscule taste of adversity we start hearing people wanting things made even easier for them.

• Mindless playing that does not require any skill but simply requires time (for you) = SKILL
  
• Beating someone on equal footing as you (for me) = SKILL
  

 

The only thing I see you being is a hypocrite... please devs give me free kills that I did not earn by my skill, but will get by mindless doing grinding that any monkey can do or even BUY from an online powerlevel seller over and over again.

Try looking that word up, I don't think you have the definition figured out. That or you're making the usual inane hyperbolic assumptions about me because I don't happen to be 100% behind the OP in his quest to avoid putting effort into warzones. There have been some great suggestions in this thread of things that would ease folks closer to where they want to be without shoveling a pile of commendations their way and saying 'Go get'em Tiger!' as soon as they hit 50. Also, you don't know me, have never played with/against me, and therefore have absolutely no clue (obviously from your post) what I do or don't consider skill in an MMO.

 

I'm sorry you're so mad, but you should come up with some original (and accurate) material.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Sporticus

[Mirthadrond]

System is fine as it is. They need to focus more on bringing in more pvp content.

Let the IWANTTHISNOW crowd quit. They are a plaque and cancer to all MMO games anyway.

 

Wait.. You're the one saying the game isn't worth the $15 per month. Why are YOU still here??

[Asvoth]

Commendation cap is there to prevent botters and players from botting 24/7.

This is actually the only MMO game with gear progression that manages to deter botters.

If they take out that cap, pvp in this game will be filled with more bots. Stop whining. All mechanics in this game have a purpose even if your brain cannot comprehend it.

 

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought the medals to rewards ratio was altered in order to help slow down the botters, 0 medals and you get 0 commendations. I don't see how increasing a commendation cap would really make much difference to a botter. Aside from increasing the amount of time they have before needing to cash out and avoid the cap, which I'm guessing they would do anyhow.

[Mirthadrond]

However, everything in an MMO needs incentive attached to it in order to keep people interested, and what is being discussed here is removing said incentive. Sure I PvP for fun, but if you remove the incentive then more people will leave than already are out of boredom..

 

I wont disagree there needs to be incentive, something to work towards. If a player is working on saving 12050 war zone comms, is that NOT working towards something?

You have to hit valor 70 to even use War Hero gear. A goal that cannot be achieved until after lvl 50, let alone the comms to buy the gear, so again.. an objective / goal / reward.

 

Also - I don't believe either of us can 'prove' this point, but.. I don't think as many people will quit due to lack of PVP goals / incentive, as you seem to think will.

Those who are disgusted with SWTOR PVP have already left. Those that remain (if they are still paying) do so hoping for some added content, changes that make it even more fun / balanced.

It still remains to be seen how dedicated to the PVP community Biowares Dev team really is. Many of us are holding out, hoping for the best. We apparently 'surprised them'.

[Lunez]

In a word, no. Endgame in this game is already dumbed down so much as to be insulting. The current method for getting endgame PvP gear is in place because so many people were astounded that they had to grind to get gear for PvP prior to 1.2, and the current method is arguably the easiest gear grind ever in an mmo..

 

Thank you so much for saying this so I didn't have to. I have absolutely zero sympathy for people who try to argue why we should make Endgame even less meaningful, both PvP and PvE. To the OP, I can certain understand that you want to be given things faster and easier, but the rest of us who actually enjoy earning things the hard way do not want our Endgame nerfed anymore than it has already. Thanks.

 

Moral to the story, please don't nerf Endgame.

 

I You have to hit valor 70 to even use War Hero gear.

 

Incorrect, rank 40 gets you access to War Hero, rank 70 gets you Ranked War Hero.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Lunez

[Rassuro]

You have to hit valor 70 to even use War Hero gear.

No, the valor 70 requirement is for crafted WH gear, not for the ones you buy with comms.

 

If a player is working on saving 12050 war zone comms, is that NOT working towards something?

The 10-49 bracket is not the same as the 50 bracket.

Normal mode flashpoints and 1-49 quests are not the same as hadmode flashpoints and PvE dailies.

 

Someone should not be able to earn full Rakata gear from the lower level PvE, exactly the same way as someone should not be able to earn full Battlemaster from the lower level PvP.

 

My second char (Assassin) is level 37 at the moment, and of course I feel like my comms are going to waste since I cannot use the comms I am earning for anything meaningful, but at least I am able to accept that doing Black Talon normal is not the same as doing Black Talon hardmode...

[DarkDruidSS]

Ya... nothing but whining and complaining. Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

Ranked comms? Really? Oh gee golly mister, I didn't know that!!

Let me guess? You're one of those people that think 'Title Loans" are a good deal? Am I right??

 

That is the best you can come up with when point to straight facts? Bad troll... BAD! No more SWTOR for you!

 

Fact is you can get multiple BM pieces at fresh 50. You don't even have to go my route and get the 4 most expensive... I believe if you get the cheaper ones you can actually fill 7 slots total with decent gear. I know you can get the full BM gear set for the look with 5,500k WZ comms. The point is to get full BM as fast as possible because the gear difference between WH and BM is smaller than the difference from Recruit to BM.

 

Look... I'm sorry you are terrible, but BW does enough to support the terribles already. The majority of the pvpers in this game are terrible just like you. Time for you to actually do some work if you want gear. This is not GW2, UO or any other game that wasn't gear dependent. If you want a different setup... play a game with that setup.