The Point of Qui-Gon Jinn

[RDeanOU]

Obi Wan already lied about Vader's identity, why couldn't he lie about other thing?

 

There is also the story told by Luke's uncle that seems to go along more with the story Obi Wan tells. Of course neither is forthright about Anakin's true fate (who can blame them for this choice), but Luke's uncle and Obi Wan hardly seem to be friends. It's difficult to believe they both came up with the same lie.

 

Seems an easier explanation to me that Lucas just changed his mind.

[Slowpokeking]

There is also the story told by Luke's uncle that seems to go along more with the story Obi Wan tells. Of course neither is forthright about Anakin's true fate (who can blame them for this choice), but Luke's uncle and Obi Wan hardly seem to be friends. It's difficult to believe they both came up with the same lie.

 

Seems an easier explanation to me that Lucas just changed his mind.

 

They met each other before, why couldn't they form an agreement to prevent Luke from knowing the truth of his father?

 

If Luke heard different versions he would surely suspect and that's gonna be a big problem.

[RDeanOU]

They met each other before, why couldn't they form an agreement to prevent Luke from knowing the truth of his father?

 

If Luke heard different versions he would surely suspect and that's gonna be a big problem.

 

So we are to believe that Obi Wan and Luke's uncle created a conspiracy to pretend like Qui-Gon Jinn never existed and it was only Obi Wan who found Luke? That seems highly implausible. Especially since revealing that part of the story tells Luke absolutely nothing about his father's eventual fate. It's a pretty specific and pointless lie for them to go to all that trouble.

[Slowpokeking]

So we are to believe that Obi Wan and Luke's uncle created a conspiracy to pretend like Qui-Gon Jinn never existed and it was only Obi Wan who found Luke? That seems highly implausible. Especially since revealing that part of the story tells Luke absolutely nothing about his father's eventual fate. It's a pretty specific and pointless lie for them to go to all that trouble.

 

Why not? Qui Gon Jinn was still there as the Force Ghost, it's better not let him get involved so he wouldn't reveal anything to Luke about his father.

 

Also this will let Luke feel closer to Obi Wan and listen to him.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Invictos]

He WAS a great pilot. He won the Boonta Eve Classic as a kid, a race originally thought impossible for humans to even compete in. Shortly after he piloted a starfighter with no formal training. The kid was a prodigy.

 

Even thought Qui-Gon asked him to train the boy, he still went against the council's decision not to have the boy trained. And if there is any other doubt this is an old man's recount of events from a long time ago. It's not unheard of for old men to embellish or simply remember things wrong.

 

I don't find anything here that's even remotely difficult to explain.

 

You can rationalize away the dissonance, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Any sane person with an understanding of the English language would have inferred the following from the Original Trilogy version of the story:

 

• Anakin was already an adult when Obi-Wan met him;
  
• Anakin was a free man -- not a slave -- when Obi-Wan first met him; (you don't refer to 9 year-old slaves as if they have a profession of their own);
  
• Obi-Wan not only agreed to teach Anakin, but was eager to do so, volunteering instead of being guilted into it by his deceased mentor. Dutifully taking on a student to fulfill a friend's dying wish is just a tad different from insisting you can teach out of over-weening pride.
  

 

Now, is it a big deal that the clear implications of the OT version are contravened by the prequels? No, not really. There's enough wiggle room to gloss over them. But your rationalizing the discrepancies, after the fact, doesn't wipe them away entirely. Anyone who watched the originals before the prequels would tell you that the prequels play against expectations. There's an obvious dissonance between what the viewer expects and what the viewer ultimately receives in The Phantom Menace.

 

That said, that gap between expectation and reality isn't a problem in and of itself. I think the point here is that the version Lucas already had set up (in the Original Trilogy) didn't need to be changed. He had the bare bones of a beautiful prequel in place, but he couldn't resist mucking around with it. Nearly the entire first movie is superfluous to the prequels' story arc; if he wanted to start with Anakin as a child (and a slave), Lucas could have handled it in about twenty minutes of screen time, much as he did in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. But nooo, George decided that what a fall-from-grace trilogy really needed was a 2+ hour children's movie, in which the presumed protagonist not only appears sparingly; he is robbed outright of agency. Nothing Anakin does in Episode I has any emotional weight at all, because he's just a kid along for the ride. Anakin can't move as a character in the first movie because he isn't old enough yet to have formed a character.

 

So yeah. If you want to tell me that Qui Gon is an important character within the dubious plot structure Lucas created, then sure, I'll buy that. Qui Gon is certainly the closest thing we have to a protagonist in the first movie, and he is mentioned in that throwaway line at the end of Episode III, named as the (re)inventor of Force ghosts. But to say that Qui Gon is necessary within the existing structure of the story is a pointless observation; of course he's necessary in a story that is in large part about him. The real question is why we needed a movie about an extraneous Jedi about whom no one even cared enough in the original trilogy to mention him by name.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Invictos

[Slowpokeking]

You can rationalize away the dissonance, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Any sane person with an understanding of the English language would have inferred the following from the Original Trilogy version of the story:

 

• Anakin was already an adult when Obi-Wan met him;
  
• Anakin was a free man -- not a slave -- when Obi-Wan first met him; (you don't refer to 9 year-old slaves as if they have a profession of their own);
  
• Obi-Wan not only agreed to teach Anakin, but was eager to do so, volunteering instead of being guilted into it by his deceased mentor. Dutifully taking on a student to fulfill a friend's dying wish is just a tad different from insisting you can teach out of over-weening pride.
  

 

Now, is it a big deal that the clear implications of the OT version are contravened by the prequels? No, not really. There's enough wiggle room to gloss over them. But your rationalizing the discrepancies, after the fact, doesn't wipe them away entirely. Anyone who watched the originals before the prequels would tell you that the prequels play against expectations. There's an obvious dissonance between what the viewer expects and what the viewer ultimately receives in The Phantom Menace.

 

That said, that gap between expectation and reality isn't a problem in and of itself. I think the point here is that the version Lucas already had set up (in the Original Trilogy) didn't need to be changed. He had the bare bones of a beautiful prequel in place, but he couldn't resist mucking around with it. Nearly the entire first movie is superfluous to the prequels' story arc; if he wanted to start with Anakin as a child (and a slave), Lucas could have handled it in about twenty minutes of screen time, much as he did in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. But nooo, George decided that what a fall-from-grace trilogy really needed was a 2+ hour children's movie, in which the presumed protagonist not only appears sparingly; he is robbed outright of agency. Nothing Anakin does in Episode I has any emotional weight at all, because he's just a kid along for the ride. Anakin can't move as a character in the first movie because he isn't old enough yet to have formed a character.

 

So yeah. If you want to tell me that Qui Gon is an important character within the dubious plot structure Lucas created, then sure, I'll buy that. Qui Gon is certainly the closest thing we have to a protagonist in the first movie, and he is mentioned in that throwaway line at the end of Episode III, named as the (re)inventor of Force ghosts. But to say that Qui Gon is necessary within the existing structure of the story is a pointless observation; of course he's necessary in a story that is in large part about him. The real question is why we needed a movie about an extraneous Jedi about whom no one even cared enough in the original trilogy to mention him by name.

 

Well you don't have to be an adult to be a pilot, and don't need to be a free man. So it made sense after all.

 

Also, remember Obi Wan was trying to explain to Luke when he was not about Obi Wan lying to him about his father. So surely he would speak nicely for himself, otherwise Luke would be angry.

 

Let's say, if Obi Wan and Anakin were really that close, why would he want to use his son to murder him?

Edited May 17, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

I really feel bad about this.

 

People try to prove Obi Wan and Anakin were so close by his words rather than his action. Even after Obi Wan told a big lie.

 

Let's see, in OT, as "a former good friend, eager to train him", Obi Wan

lied to Anakin's son to kill his father.

get himself before Anakin's son to let Luke hate his father even more.

Even after Luke knew the truth, he still wanted Luke to kill Vader, even said "'You should not think of that machine as your father.'". Luke only knew Anakin as Vader but still thought there is still good in him.

 

Yeah, and people still believe they were so close.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Lewisgil]

@Lewisgil

 

So you think that I am overanalyzing, being subjective, or being unreasonable for expecting a well written story to include:

1. A likeable main character

2. Basic elements of the plot such as who characters are and why they hold their positions to make any sense at all.

3. Characters and groups of characters that behave in believable ways.

4. A protagonist that is invloved in or even understands the major events of the story.

 

I'm sorry, but these are required elements for even decent writing. If you handed in a story in a writing class that is missing these elements you would get a bad grade. This is not subjectivity. There are objective things that make for good writing and the prequels clearly lack those things.

 

You talk about the over arching story as if the original trilogy never existed without the prequels and that is simply not the case. We can't ignore that they existed apart from one another. The story really can't be understood the way you would like (as if the prequels existed first) because there were so many continuity problems created by the way Lucas did the prequels. The way Luke's uncle describes Anakin's origin and the way Obi Wan describes his decision to train Anakin are not what was portrayed in the prequels.

 

The prequels are garbage. They are widely criticized for a reason. they were written and filmed by Lucas in the laziest way possible.

 

Your point of view would be correct if Episode I could be viewed in a vacuum. It cannot, therefore it should not. Anakin from Episode I was likable, in my opinion. In Episodes II and III, from the Novelizations, there were points at which he was likable. But, while he is the protagonist, he is NOT the hero. He does not become the hero until Episode VI. That is what I mean by you have to look at the story as a whole, not just individual Episodes.

 

I'm well aware that at the time the Original Trilogy came out the Prequels did not exist. I saw them in their original theatrical releases.

 

Your statements about everything are based upon opinion. Proven by the fact that I, along with others, do not agree with you. Sure, I like the Original Trilogy a lot better than the Prequels, which one of us alive early enough to have seen them before their rerelease in '97 doesn't? A fictional world does not have to make sense. This world is not one of Science Fiction where technology has to be plausible. This is high fantasy based in a technologically advanced era. The tactics used in battle don't have to make sense. We don't even know what strategy was being used.

 

You called me an apologist in an earlier post. You couldn't be more wrong. I make no apologies for anything Lucas did. I had nothing to do with it, nor do I believe there is any apology owed for what he did. He told the story he wanted to tell. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

 

The difference between you and me is you are arguing your opinion as fact, I am arguing my opinion to show you there are other opinions that exist. You see the story one way, I see it a completely different way. Now I bid you adieu. May the Force be with you.

[RDeanOU]

Your point of view would be correct if Episode I could be viewed in a vacuum. It cannot, therefore it should not. Anakin from Episode I was likable, in my opinion. In Episodes II and III, from the Novelizations, there were points at which he was likable. But, while he is the protagonist, he is NOT the hero. He does not become the hero until Episode VI. That is what I mean by you have to look at the story as a whole, not just individual Episodes.

 

I'm well aware that at the time the Original Trilogy came out the Prequels did not exist. I saw them in their original theatrical releases.

 

Your statements about everything are based upon opinion. Proven by the fact that I, along with others, do not agree with you. Sure, I like the Original Trilogy a lot better than the Prequels, which one of us alive early enough to have seen them before their rerelease in '97 doesn't? A fictional world does not have to make sense. This world is not one of Science Fiction where technology has to be plausible. This is high fantasy based in a technologically advanced era. The tactics used in battle don't have to make sense. We don't even know what strategy was being used.

 

You called me an apologist in an earlier post. You couldn't be more wrong. I make no apologies for anything Lucas did. I had nothing to do with it, nor do I believe there is any apology owed for what he did. He told the story he wanted to tell. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

 

The difference between you and me is you are arguing your opinion as fact, I am arguing my opinion to show you there are other opinions that exist. You see the story one way, I see it a completely different way. Now I bid you adieu. May the Force be with you.

 

No, the difference is that I expect stories to make sense and have likeable characters that I actually care about and you apparently don't think these things are important in good writing. Good luck with your amateur writing hobby man.

Edited May 17, 2012 by RDeanOU

[RDeanOU]

You can rationalize away the dissonance, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Any sane person with an understanding of the English language would have inferred the following from the Original Trilogy version of the story:

 

• Anakin was already an adult when Obi-Wan met him;
  
• Anakin was a free man -- not a slave -- when Obi-Wan first met him; (you don't refer to 9 year-old slaves as if they have a profession of their own);
  
• Obi-Wan not only agreed to teach Anakin, but was eager to do so, volunteering instead of being guilted into it by his deceased mentor. Dutifully taking on a student to fulfill a friend's dying wish is just a tad different from insisting you can teach out of over-weening pride.
  

 

Now, is it a big deal that the clear implications of the OT version are contravened by the prequels? No, not really. There's enough wiggle room to gloss over them. But your rationalizing the discrepancies, after the fact, doesn't wipe them away entirely. Anyone who watched the originals before the prequels would tell you that the prequels play against expectations. There's an obvious dissonance between what the viewer expects and what the viewer ultimately receives in The Phantom Menace.

 

That said, that gap between expectation and reality isn't a problem in and of itself. I think the point here is that the version Lucas already had set up (in the Original Trilogy) didn't need to be changed. He had the bare bones of a beautiful prequel in place, but he couldn't resist mucking around with it. Nearly the entire first movie is superfluous to the prequels' story arc; if he wanted to start with Anakin as a child (and a slave), Lucas could have handled it in about twenty minutes of screen time, much as he did in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. But nooo, George decided that what a fall-from-grace trilogy really needed was a 2+ hour children's movie, in which the presumed protagonist not only appears sparingly; he is robbed outright of agency. Nothing Anakin does in Episode I has any emotional weight at all, because he's just a kid along for the ride. Anakin can't move as a character in the first movie because he isn't old enough yet to have formed a character.

 

So yeah. If you want to tell me that Qui Gon is an important character within the dubious plot structure Lucas created, then sure, I'll buy that. Qui Gon is certainly the closest thing we have to a protagonist in the first movie, and he is mentioned in that throwaway line at the end of Episode III, named as the (re)inventor of Force ghosts. But to say that Qui Gon is necessary within the existing structure of the story is a pointless observation; of course he's necessary in a story that is in large part about him. The real question is why we needed a movie about an extraneous Jedi about whom no one even cared enough in the original trilogy to mention him by name.

 

Quoted for truth. Qui Gon was only necessary because George Lucas decided to structure Episode 1 around him. No one who saw the original trilogy said, "The prequels must tell me all about a jedi whose existence isn't even hinted at in any of the movies I've seen so far. I hope they focus on that guy instead of Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda, or any of the other characters I love and already own action figures of."

[Lewisgil]

No, the difference is that I expect stories to make sense and have likeable characters that I actually care about and you apparently don't think these things are important in good writing. Good luck with your amateur writing hobby man.

 

You are putting words in my mouth. I said I like the character, when I read the novelization. I even liked the character when I looked past the horrible acting. I did say that he was intentionally written to be a jerk. It makes more sense that there are parts of his personality as Vader present before he became Vader. It wouldn't be a plausible transformation for him to one day be a sweet and innocent boy to the next being the most ruthless and cold-hearted tyrant the Galaxy has seen in a long time.

 

However, you are correct. I don't expect everything to make sense, in a fantasy world. It doesn't have to. This isn't a fictitious story about a war that happened in our world. This is a fantasy world developed from the imagination of the author. The story only has to remain plausible within the story's universe, it does not have to make sense in ours.

[Slowpokeking]

The story got to make sense, but not everyone has to tell the truth.

[RDeanOU]

You are putting words in my mouth. I said I like the character, when I read the novelization. I even liked the character when I looked past the horrible acting. I did say that he was intentionally written to be a jerk. It makes more sense that there are parts of his personality as Vader present before he became Vader. It wouldn't be a plausible transformation for him to one day be a sweet and innocent boy to the next being the most ruthless and cold-hearted tyrant the Galaxy has seen in a long time.

 

However, you are correct. I don't expect everything to make sense, in a fantasy world. It doesn't have to. This isn't a fictitious story about a war that happened in our world. This is a fantasy world developed from the imagination of the author. The story only has to remain plausible within the story's universe, it does not have to make sense in ours.

 

Putting words in your mouth? How about I just let your words speak for you.

 

Hey Lewisgil, is Anakin likeable?

 

I'm aware the character was written in a way that we wouldn't like him. We weren't meant to.

What I'm saying is the character was meant to be a jerk most of the time.

 

Hey Lewisgil, who is the protagonist of Episode 1?

The protagonist in Episode I was the protagonist for all three of the Prequels, Anakin.

Interesting...he kind of didn't seem to be involved that much in the story of Episode 1 or have any real clue what was going on. Do you agree with that evaluation?

Anakin may not be the main focal point, there were these events going on during the time that had he participated, he probably would have gotten killed. He got lucky in the space battle as you so eloquently put it. I doubt he would have been able to handle himself in a lightsaber duel against a youngling let alone Darth Maul.

 

You actually never answered the question about whether you cared at all when Anakin fell to the dark side or when Obi Wan hacks him up and leaves him for dead. Did you have any kind of emotional reaction to those scenes? Were you upset? I don't know anyone who claims they were. I contend that if we had cared about Anakin's character we would have been upset when he fell. The fact that we weren't is pretty clear evidence that we didn't care about Anakin's character. We didn't care about the main character of the entire story. Why can't you admit this is problematic?

 

You tried and failed miserably to make any sense out of puzzling story choices like the decision to make a 13 year old a democratically elected supreme ruler of a planet and why the antagonists of the first movie (Trade Federation) were driven to be antagonists at all. You maintain these things don't matter in a fantasy universe. I think that excuse works if we just aren't told about the kind of government Naboo has, but when the story goes out of its way to explain that Naboo is a democracy and trump up how much they love democracy I think that makes it necessary for their democracy to make sense. A major theme of the movie is about how Palpatine is subverting democracy, but why should the audience care about that if the voters on these planets are so freaking stupid that they elect 13 year old children who don't know how to govern? If that is what democracy results in then why is it valuable? You claim this isn't important, but it messes up one of the major morals of the story. That is pretty important.

 

The story doesn't make sense. The supposed protagonist is a bystander who doesn't know what is going on in Episode 1. The main character of the entire story is unlikeable and we don't care about him. These are problems.

Edited May 17, 2012 by RDeanOU

[Invictos]

Well you don't have to be an adult to be a pilot, and don't need to be a free man. So it made sense after all.

 

Also, remember Obi Wan was trying to explain to Luke when he was not about Obi Wan lying to him about his father. So surely he would speak nicely for himself, otherwise Luke would be angry.

 

Let's say, if Obi Wan and Anakin were really that close, why would he want to use his son to murder him?

 

Doesn't matter that you can come up with a plausible explanation in hindsight. The fact is that George had a whole different story laid out and chose to go away from it for no good reason. Or are you arguing that a sensible reading of the OT version of events would have Anakin as a nine-year old slave boy, and Obi-Wan as a reluctant teacher forced into taking Anakin as an apprentice because it was his here-to-fore unknown Master's dying wish? Didn't think so.

 

And hell, even if we ignore the original trilogy entirely, Episode I is still a terrible introduction, plot-arc-wise, to Anakin's story. You're missing the forest for the trees, and you've addressed not one bit of my argument.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Invictos

[Lewisgil]

@RDeanOU

 

I said the character was written in a way we weren't supposed to like him. I never said whether or not I liked him until a later post.

 

You don't have to be the main focal point of the action sequences to be the protagonist. He was the reason for the story.

 

Did I care whether or not Anakin fell to the Dark Side and that he was dismembered? Yes I did actually. I remember the first time I saw the movie back in '05, "Finally, we get to see how this whiny brat gets turned into my favorite character." I actually cheered when you hear the sound of the respirator for the first time at the end of Episode III shortly followed by a bittersweet cheer when I heard James Earl Jones' voice and that awful "No" that was bellowed.

 

Ugh, I'm tired of this round robin with you. I'm done, neither of us is going to budge on our points of view. Have fun with your anal retentive over analyzing point of view.

[RDeanOU]

@RDeanOU

 

I said the character was written in a way we weren't supposed to like him. I never said whether or not I liked him until a later post.

 

You don't have to be the main focal point of the action sequences to be the protagonist. He was the reason for the story.

 

Did I care whether or not Anakin fell to the Dark Side and that he was dismembered? Yes I did actually. I remember the first time I saw the movie back in '05, "Finally, we get to see how this whiny brat gets turned into my favorite character." I actually cheered when you hear the sound of the respirator for the first time at the end of Episode III shortly followed by a bittersweet cheer when I heard James Earl Jones' voice and that awful "No" that was bellowed.

 

Ugh, I'm tired of this round robin with you. I'm done, neither of us is going to budge on our points of view. Have fun with your anal retentive over analyzing point of view.

 

Okay, have fun not being able to examine stories with anything resembling a critical eye.

[Invictos]

You don't have to be the main focal point of the action sequences to be the protagonist. He was the reason for the story.

 

This is a fascinating statement. Anakin is the reason for the story of Episode I? How so? The Trade Federation certainly has nothing to do with him. The Jedi and Padme don't flee to Tatooine in search of Anakin. In fact, Anakin wouldn't show up at all -- given the development of the plot -- if Qui Gon didn't need a hyperdrive from Anakin's owner. And not just any hyperdrive; Qui Gon needs a part that is so rare and so specific that only Watto's will do. And Watto's immune to Force persuasion. And Watto won't accept Republic credits, of which Qui Gon (who is, after all, escorting a queen, a ... er ... elected queen) has plenty at his disposal.

 

In fact, the story has to do cartwheels just to allow for Anakin's introduction. But that in itself isn't a big problem; a protagonist needn't be the main driver of a story, after all. The problem is that Anakin remains basically irrelevant for the rest of the movie. A protagonist does have to be active agent in the story's development, the story's hero, if you will. Anakin doesn't even come close to that status. Let's see: he wins the pod race (a more profligate spectacle of wasted screen time you'll scarcely find in movie history, by the way), but what purpose did the pod race serve? Well, superficially, Qui Gon's bet on the pod race won him his coveted hyperdrive. Great! Anakin has purpose in the plot!

 

But wait. The movie's already shown us that Qui Gon is unscrupulous enough to use force persuasion to extort goods away from merchants. Aren't there other merchants on Tattooine? Presumably, Qui Gon could have bought (using the aforementioned Republic credits) or force persuaded almost anything he wanted out of a different merchant. So if Watto was willing to wager the hyperdrive against a pod racer (a pod racer that Watto technically owned already, nice job Qui Gon!) -- then why couldn't Qui Gon just obtain lots of crap Watto wanted and barter for the hyperdrive directly? Or hell, why not go to the nearest cantina and gamble your way to Tattooine-fungible riches, rather than hatching a wantonly irresponsible child-endangerment scheme? Qui Gon's a master of influencing dice rolls with the Force, dontchaknow.

 

The answer, of course, is that there's no reason he couldn't have bartered directly with Watto. No, the reason for the bet is that Qui Gon wants to win Anakin's freedom on top of the hyperdrive. (And btw, his reasons for wanting Anakin aren't plot relevant within the context of Episode I.) Notice that Anakin, even when he's superficially the catalyst for action, takes a passive role. In any case, presumably Qui Gon could buy and/or force persuade enough valuable crap to trade for (or bet for, using dice) Anakin directly, so the race is superfluous, and thus Anakin's role in winning it is superfluous. No, the real reason for Qui Gon's bet is that Lucas wanted an excuse to spend thirty minutes of screen time on a pointless CGI orgy to sell toys.

 

Yadda yadda yadda. I'm sure we've all been through this analysis a hundred times before. The bottom line is that when you say that Anakin was the reason for the [Episode I] story, what you really mean is that you knew George was trying to write a trilogy about Anakin; the story, in other words, wouldn't have been written if it weren't for the fictional existence of Darth Vader. But that's fourth-wall-piercing knowledge; it has nothing to do with how the story is presented. If you had to watch Episode I by itself, without any recognition of the movies that came before or after, would you conclude that the story is Anakin's? If you're sane, the answer is no; you'd conclude that the story is kinda-sorta about Qui Gon, kinda-sorta about Padme, but that the movie features bizarre interludes that focus on an otherwise irrelevant child. R2D2 is as much the protagonist as Anakin is.

 

Sadly, Episode I is best viewed as a stand-alone feature even so; if you fast-forward past the Anakin (and JarJar) sequences, the film is still a rambling mess, but at least it's a semi-coherent rambling mess, entertaining in a B-movie-spectacle kind of way.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Invictos

[Slowpokeking]

Doesn't matter that you can come up with a plausible explanation in hindsight. The fact is that George had a whole different story laid out and chose to go away from it for no good reason. Or are you arguing that a sensible reading of the OT version of events would have Anakin as a nine-year old slave boy, and Obi-Wan as a reluctant teacher forced into taking Anakin as an apprentice because it was his here-to-fore unknown Master's dying wish? Didn't think so.

 

And hell, even if we ignore the original trilogy entirely, Episode I is still a terrible introduction, plot-arc-wise, to Anakin's story. You're missing the forest for the trees, and you've addressed not one bit of my argument.

 

Why did you say it's different story?

 

Well I didn't know what kind of person Anakin was,so it left blanks to fill, but I can see Obi Wan and Anakin were not good friends like Obi Wan claimed to be.

[Slowpokeking]

Sure, EP I got problems, but not Qui Gon Jinn, he's great. He never did something like lie to a 20 years old boy to murder his own father, the one he claimed to be his "good friend". Edited May 17, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[TheronFett]

According to his resume, it proves that Liam Neeson is the most powerful being of all time:

 

Trained Obi-Wan Kenobi

Trained Batman

Outsmarted the Nazis

God of Narnia

Zeus, God of Gods

Edited May 17, 2012 by TheronFett

[TheronFett]

No, the real reason for Qui Gon's bet is that Lucas wanted an excuse to spend thirty minutes of screen time on a pointless CGI orgy to sell toys.

 

Congrats! You've summed up the real reason why the prequels even exist. (I did agree with your entire post btw)

[Captain_Zone]

Sure, EP I got problems, but not Qui Gon Jinn, he's great. He never did something like lie to a 20 years old boy to murder his own father, the one he claimed to be his "good friend".

 

Have you read the novelization of Episode I? If it weren't for Liam Neeson, Qui-Gon Jinn would have been a complete laughingstock. Where he repeatedly tries to use Force Persuade on Watto and it fails each time.... ONLY Liam Neeson could have pulled that off without looking completely stupid.

[Captain_Zone]

According to his resume, it proves that Liam Neeson is the most powerful being of all time:

 

Trained Obi-Wan Kenobi

Trained Batman

Outsmarted the Nazis

God of Narnia

Zeus, God of Gods

 

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Oh, and tracked down the guy who took his daughter and found him by voice alone. Killed everyone involved in his daughter's kidnapping, and rewrote the rules of Action Movies when the guy said "We can neg-"BANG! He takes no poodoo off anybody.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Slowpokeking]

Have you read the novelization of Episode I? If it weren't for Liam Neeson, Qui-Gon Jinn would have been a complete laughingstock. Where he repeatedly tries to use Force Persuade on Watto and it fails each time.... ONLY Liam Neeson could have pulled that off without looking completely stupid.

 

I have the prequel trilogy's novelization right beside me. He tried it twice, that's all.

 

So is it worse than lie to a 20 years old boy to murder his own father, his so called "good friend" and that's exactly what the Emperor wanted Luke to do?

 

I agree Liam Neeson made this character even cooler, but the character is pretty good.

[vladti]

Qui-Gon isn't completely pointless but if he hadn't shown up and found Anakin one of two things would have happened: 1.) Sidious would never had a powerful apprentice to destroy the republic, because of that the clone wars probably wouldnt have started and Sidous wouldnt have tried to take over. And even if the clone wars had taken place, Anakin wouldnt have been there to help kill mace windoo, therefore Sidious dying. Or 2.) Anakin would have been discovered by someone else most likely, fading into the jedi order, and not having to deal with Obi-won's reluctants to teach Anakin, therfore helping him not to tip toward the dark side. Qui-Gon wouldnt die in ether senerio.