PvP Tankassassins: Some neat data AKA: Thrash sucks

[Astarica]

Well, unlike the tree that's supposed to use Maul (Deception), Tankasins generally have a huge speed advantage compared to the enemy (they're snared by Wither, you're usually not snared) which makes any positional dependent attacks far easier to pull off. The only thing you give up is giving enemy the melee range but in the case of Maul, it actually hits hard enough that it might be woth it. Certainly it'd b a good idea to Maul with proc when you need to close in to Assassinate if you can manage it.

[Squidkidz]

Just did about 5 fights with the maul spec. I was energy capped a lot while waiting for CDs aswell as exploit weakness buff. I seemed to use saber stike a lot more then the thrash for energize spec. Overall damage was about the same. Saw a lot of familiar enemies during the night and they died just as fast as before. With the limited play I just experienced, the maul spec provided eqaulivent numbers. First pass is to say play the spec you feel more comfortable with

 

Confused, saber strike doesn't proc energize, maybe I'm misunderstanding from the wording...

[thefishdude]

Ok, I guess I'm a bit confused as well, because Saber strike doesn't proc Energize. Also, can someone put up a basic rotation for this "maul build". Are you just inserting Saber Strike instead of thrash and waiting for Duplicity to proc Exploit Weakness (with only a 10% chance)? Then using Wither and shock sans Energize proc when they're off CD

 

I guess I'm just not understanding how this can be effective in active pvp. I'm not opposed to trying it, but I'd like to see some that's tried post a rotation.

[Astarica]

Ok, I guess I'm a bit confused as well, because Saber strike doesn't proc Energize. Also, can someone put up a basic rotation for this "maul build". Are you just inserting Saber Strike instead of thrash and waiting for Duplicity to proc Exploit Weakness (with only a 10% chance)? Then using Wither and shock sans Energize proc when they're off CD

 

I guess I'm just not understanding how this can be effective in active pvp. I'm not opposed to trying it, but I'd like to see some that's tried post a rotation.

 

Force attacks proc Explit Weakness too. Force Lightning is actually a very good attack to use to proc it. I won't do a 31/1/9 build because I don't like giving up melee range without being able to Assassinate so there's no synergy there, but for the melee-inclined guy it might even make more sense to maul as a Tankasin than any other spec, because Tankasins have abilities that makes it relatively easy to get the maul off.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Astarica

[Ibiza-Vin]

I've been messing around with maul the past few days. Both the OP's spec (although I removed a point from Chain Shock to get the full reduced cost on thrash and shock) and the 23/1/17 hybrid. In terms of maul being hard to get off, it's actually very easy to position since it works from the sides as well.

 

Also, maul doesn't really starve your energy. I only use it when Exploit Weakness procs and that only happens once every 10 seconds. The rest of the time I'm thrashing, wither/DF, shocking just like a regular darkness build.

 

That maul is a nice addition to our damage. Especially in terms of what you're giving up.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Ibiza-Vin

[thefishdude]

I've been messing around with maul the past few days. Both the OP's spec (although I removed a point from Chain Shock to get the full reduced cost on thrash and shock) and the 23/1/17 hybrid. In terms of maul being hard to get off, it's actually very easy to position since it works from the sides as well.

 

Also, maul doesn't really starve your energy. I only use it when Exploit Weakness procs and that only happens once every 10 seconds. The rest of the time I'm thrashing, wither/DF, shocking just like a regular darkness build.

 

That maul is a nice addition to our damage. Especially in terms of what you're giving up.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the OP's idea was to drop Thrash from the rotation and use saber strike until Maul procs. If you're using thrash, wither/df, shock AND Maul, I'm not exactly sure how you're not force starved.

[thefishdude]

Ok, with a little skepticism, I respec my abilities and started using Maul in my rotation and not Thrash. With my power stacked fairly high, my Thrash would hit for around 1300 - 1400/hit; so, I wasn't expecting too much with the Maul rotation. Drum roll please.....

 

I'm still not sold that it's a better replacement for overall damage vs Thrash. I know the OP ran the damage test, but as I stated before, that's in a perfect word and not a WZ with live bodies. HOWEVER, what I did like about it was a burst time feel of damage. I would do something along these lines:

 

- Stack my 3 HD via wither and shock. Then throw in saber strikes and a Discharge for good measure (yes, I was using a non-proc shock).

- Typically, Exploit Weakness is proc and ready.

- Pop a Crit adrenal and surge relc

- Hit'em with a Maul (typically crits with adrenal) and then the HD

 

It seems to provide a nice burst damage for our tank spec anyway. I'd be interested to hear from anyone else that's tried incorporating Maul. Have you done something similar as above or do you think I'm out to lunch with that rotation?

 

One thing to note, without the adrenal and relc, I'm not criting as much; so, my damage on the non-crits is in the neighborhood of 1500 - 2000 (obviously it's dependent on who I'm hitting).

[Astarica]

In the real world, both Thrash and Saber Strike loses BADLY against any strong melee class in an exchange so you want to avoid any situation where you could hit a strong melee with either of those attacks. You also lose very badly if hitting someone with Thrash (or Saber Strike) results you getting hit by an AE blind that's otherwise avoidable (no PBAE effect hits more than 8m).

 

In theory not using Thrash is better DPS by math. In reality it's better because it teaches you to avoid melee combat and that's where the class is the strongest. Against a Marauder, you pretty much want to never melee him until he's in Assassinate range if at all possible. In theory you could just melee back when you get rooted or whatever, but in reality I find a lot of people actually just walk up to the Marauder and hit him with melee, forgetting that EVERY attack the Marauder has does more damage than either Saber Strike or Thrash so you're always losing the melee exchange.

 

I can honestly play a WZ without using any melee attack except Assassinate and barely lose any of my effectiveness.

[olagaton]

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