Expertise...Get RID of it.

[oompadouche]

Bioware can't get rid of Expertise. They need a stat to justify the grind. Otherwise you wouldn't need to waste time in PVP and keep your subscription.

 

They also won't EVER get rid of expertise because it forces you to get 2 sets of gear thus doubling your grinding time. Without Expertise, you would be able to have only 1 set of armor for PVP and PVE instead of 1 set for PVP and 1 set for PVE.

 

The Expertise stat exists SOLELY for the benefit of Bioware. They will NEVER get rid of it.

 

Exactly! Because once you have beat the game you move on to a different game.

Edited May 11, 2012 by oompadouche

[Razot]

Wow will always be the standard that all other MMO games will be compared to. swtor is taking the standards of wow and incorporating those to this game.

 

You say that like its a good thing. lol

WoW is fine for what it is.. My question is does anything outside of what you already know scare you or something?

[Razot]

Reading isn't your strong point.

 

I sense life and reality is not yours...

[oompadouche]

You say that like its a good thing. lol

WoW is fine for what it is.. My question is does anything outside of what you already know scare you or something?

 

my question to you is has anything outside of this standard ever worked? There will always be hardcore raiders and there will always be hardcore pvpers. No one can change that. If either group has nothing to work towards then they move on to a game that offers a challenge. Do raiders kill the boss over and over because its fun? or because they want gear that everyone else has.

Edited May 11, 2012 by oompadouche

[Razot]

my question to you is has anything outside of this standard ever worked? There will always be hardcore raiders and there will always be hardcore pvpers. No one can change that. If either group has nothing to work towards then they move on to a game that offers a challenge.

 

I am not arguing that point. In fact i agree although i tend to play sandbox games like EVE.

I didn't say remove it, I said baseline it. I know why its in game I just think the current state its in is a bit flawed.

Blizzard did it as reaction and fixed a problem Bioware added it and created problems..

Outside of WoW i think every MMO has failed cause of PVP stats..

Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot

[xxdragonragexx]

my question to you is has anything outside of this standard ever worked? There will always be hardcore raiders and there will always be hardcore pvpers. No one can change that. If either group has nothing to work towards then they move on to a game that offers a challenge. Do raiders kill the boss over and over because its fun? or because they want gear that everyone else has.

 

No it never worked. Most games that do not have gear progression in pvp or pve never reached 200k in sales. Even the ones that do often die in a year or so.

[Razot]

No it never worked. Most games that do not have gear progression in pvp or pve never reached 200k in sales. Even the ones that do often die in a year or so.

 

Thats false!

Look at MMOs in general. WoW is a total anomaly, and i don't think any game will ever reach those subs, PVP stat or no PVP stat. they seem to all hit around 300k-500k active subs and thats about it.

WoW is just not huge cause of PVP, its huge for many reasons. I and many other think EVE is pretty successful and i started playing when you would only see 2k people online, now its 25k to 45k online and that game is nothing like WoW.

You may say EVE is fail or what not but outside of RIft it has more active subs than every WoW clone released in the last 4 years.

Well i will throw in ToR now as well..

Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot

[xxdragonragexx]

Thats false!

Look at MMOs in general. WoW is a total anomaly, and i don't think any game will ever reach those subs, PVP stat or no PVP stat. they seem to all hit around 300k-500k active subs and thats about it.

WoW is just not huge cause of PVP, its huge for many reasons. I and many other think EVE is pretty successful and i started playing when you would only see 2k people online, now its 25k to 45k online and that game is nothing like WoW.

You may say EVE is fail or what not but outside of RIft it has more active subs than every WoW clone released in the last 4 years.

Well i will throw in ToR now as well..

 

Reality isn't your strong point. Most likely you are delusional in real life.

EVE is actually garbage. Never even got any praise from any magazine or any popular Internet gaming site. Along with so many other problems in that game. Garbage game is garbage.

Edited May 11, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Razot]

Reality isn't your strong point. Most likely you are delusional in real life.

EVE is actually garbage. Never even got any praise from any magazine or any popular Internet gaming site. Along with so many other problems in that game. Garbage game is garbage.

 

Opinion does not make it fact you know.

Been playing EVE now for 6 or 7 years and enjoy that game very much.

I think WoW is the scourge of humanity and intelligence, and many would agree but that does not make it fact.

But keep going your inability to rationalize an opinion other than your own is entertaining.

[xxdragonragexx]

Opinion does not make it fact you know.

Been playing EVE now for 6 or 7 years and enjoy that game very much.

I think WoW is the scourge of humanity and intelligence, and many would agree but that does not make it fact.

But keep going your inability to rationalize an opinion other than your own is entertaining.

 

Then you've been playing a garbage game for 7 years. LOL great way to waste your life away. I played that game for a week and was glad I didn't buy the game. It was that horrible. If WoW is the scourge of humanity and intelligence in which I'm not going to argue with, maybe it is, but EVE definitely gets the award for the most TERRIBAD OF ALL TERRIBAD MMOs. It is even worst than most korean and f2p MMOs.

Edited May 11, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[MinguesDew]

MMOs have a history of progressing PvE content with loot rewards and that isn't likely to change. Back in the day there was no PvP gear so you had to PvE to PvP or you would die noobishly.

 

So they made PvP gear; but PvE gear gets updated with new sets, so they did the same with PvP gear.

 

PvP gear has to have a stat that is adjusted as PvE gear stats inflate.

 

Or you could ban PvE gear from PvP:

"I raided for xxx hours for this gear and I can't even hit people with it! /ragequit"

 

Or you could give the same gear from both aspects of the game:

"I beat the hardest boss in the game for this piece of loot and all this guy had to do was afk WZs for 2 weeks? /ragequit"

 

Or you could go with what we have, which I think is working nicely.

 

The recruit set you can buy and equip the moment you hit 50 (they will probably continue to increase expertise on recruit and nothign else).

 

Battlemaster which you can grind in a reasonable amount of time (this will probably continue to be the previous set of endgame gear).

 

War Hero which has a modest stat increase and better itemization (dunno how they'll continue this, hopefully not by doing to WH what they did to BM) but is a long grind or require a high rating.

[Razot]

Then you've been playing a garbage game for 7 years. LOL great way to waste your life away. I played that game for a week and was glad I didn't buy the game. It was that horrible. If WoW is the scourge of humanity and intelligence in which I'm not going to argue with, maybe it is, but EVE definitely gets the award for the most TERRIBAD OF ALL TERRIBAD MMOs. It is even worst than most korean and f2p MMOs.

 

Hmm I don't know what to say really.

You didn't even begin to see what EVE is about. Like i said 6 to 7 years playing and i have not even touched half the mechanics in the game. I lived in 0,0 space since a few weeks old and had a few short regroups in empire space. I was a null sec warrior i guess and market trader. As of late i am going to start factional war and worm hole exploration, and try even some industrial (ship building).So even 6 or 7 years old and i am a noob to this part of the game.

Lets look at the basic theme park compared to EVE.

TOR has 8 classes plus the mirrors and 6 crafting skills, 4 PVP instances, Raids,FP i have no idea.

EVE 4 races 7000+ systems, Hundreds of ships with its own role with open ended variations of fittings, Mining,Building ships or one of the thousands different mods or ammo, PVEer (incursions,missions low and high sec), Exploration (WH space) PVP/PVE/Indsustrial, Facional warfare, Piracy, Merc Corps (Hired PVPers), Planetary mining, and other crap i cant even remember atm. Plus dust 514 coming we get to planetary bomb for hire the play station kiddies .

You do whatever you want. Hard with a huge learning curve and very frustrating... VERY! but garbage... No way!

But the point is these guys at Bioware could have done so much better....

Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot

[xxdragonragexx]

Hmm I don't know what to say really.

You didn't even begin to see what EVE is about. Like i said 6 to 7 years playing and i have not even touched half the mechanics in the game. I lived in 0,0 space since a few weeks old and had a few short regroups in empire space. I was a null sec warrior i guess and market trader. As of late i am going to start factional war and worm hole exploration, and try even some industrial (ship building).So even 6 or 7 years old and i am a noob to this part of the game.

Lets look at the basic theme park compared to EVE.

TOR has 8 classes plus the mirrors and 6 crafting skills, 4 PVP instances, Raids,FP i have no idea.

EVE 4 races 7000+ systems, Hundreds of ships with its own role with open ended variations of fittings, Mining,Building ships or one of the thousands different mods or ammo, PVEer (incursions,missions low and high sec), Exploration (WH space) PVP/PVE/Indsustrial, Facional warfare, Piracy, Merc Corps (Hired PVPers), Planetary mining, and other crap i cant even remember atm. Plus dust 514 coming we get to planetary bomb for hire the play station kiddies .

You do whatever you want. Hard with a huge learning curve and very frustrating... VERY! but garbage... No way!

But the point is these guys at Bioware could have done so much better....

 

LOL according to the numbers they have already done so much better in the first month than all of Eve's lifetime. It is a garbage game. Just admit it.

Edited May 11, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Razot]

LOL according to the numbers they have already done so much better in the first month than all of Eve's lifetime. It is a garbage game. Just admit it.

 

Its Star Wars man!!!

Lets see in a year i would be willing to bet TOR will be around 400k to 500k.

If i win ill loan you one of my 10mill sp alts and take you on a gate bust and see if that gets your heart pounding.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot

[denpic]

How about instead of removing expertise we get rid of bolster

That way 50 Pvp won't be such a shock and by the time you make

You'll be used to getting your *** handed to you by better geared players

 

The illusion of power that bolster gives is the problem

[uzairzaidi]

Star Wars nerds come up with the best insults.

 

You guys are sitting there trying to tell me there has never been a system that didn't use expertise and succeeded??

 

The BEST ones did not, the two CRAPPIEST are....really, you guys think PvP in SWTOR and WoW are what PvP is supposed to be?

 

No wonder its the whiney carebear-entitlement fest that it is today.

 

This kid definitely gets owned in warzones every day.

[ekimmak]

The PvP stat prevents PvE gear from dominating PvP and PvP gear from interfering with progression speeds in PvE. That's all it is.

 

While I do have to agree with this, I think the difference is too severe at the moment. Especially when you consider that when you hit 50, a PVP player will have to go up against all those top expertise gear players, but a PVE player isn't forced to immediately go on raids to become viable.

 

There's a difference. A major difference.

[xxdragonragexx]

While I do have to agree with this, I think the difference is too severe at the moment. Especially when you consider that when you hit 50, a PVP player will have to go up against all those top expertise gear players, but a PVE player isn't forced to immediately go on raids to become viable.

 

There's a difference. A major difference.

 

Actually, a PvE player cannot go to the top or nightmare mode dungeons. They have to progress very slowly. A pvp player on the other hand can just get recruit gear and he is already viable. Then he can get battlemaster in 3 days which in my opinion is too fast.

[Razot]

Actually, a PvE player cannot go to the top or nightmare mode dungeons. They have to progress very slowly. A pvp player on the other hand can just get recruit gear and he is already viable. Then he can get battlemaster in 3 days which in my opinion is too fast.

 

Counter point:

You are champion of the keeping the game separated PVP from PVE. So why would the same progression path follow when they are different play styles?

PVP is about competition so wouldn't logic dictate a faster progression as we are not beating on the same scripted NPC's over and over.

Also PVE has a progression meaning you just don't jump into super hard raids at fresh 50 while PVP you jump right into the high end and explode.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot

[ekimmak]

Actually, a PvE player cannot go to the top or nightmare mode dungeons. They have to progress very slowly. A pvp player on the other hand can just get recruit gear and he is already viable. Then he can get battlemaster in 3 days which in my opinion is too fast.

 

Well, I'm kind of juggling between the two ideas here. My personal point, I couldn't afford recruit gear when I hit 50 (But I'm terribly spendthrift with credits, so let's ignore that). A PVE isn't expected to go run the high level raids. In fact, no one would take them there anyway, so that's not a problem for them. PVP, however, has a lot less choice about who they group with, and who they run against. 4 of the outlier possibilities are:

1) You end up in a group with only recruit gear, against a top PVP gear team. You are toast.

2) You end up in a group with top PVP gear, against a top PVP gear team. Makes you feel like you're holding your team back, or leeching off them.

3) You end up in a group with recruit gear, against a recruit gear team. Balanced match, where skill makes the difference.

4) You end up in a group with top PVP gear, against a recruit gear team. Not very nice of you.

 

PVE, you can control what you're up against. You never have to play against something that is above what you, both where gear is concerned and where skill is concerned. You can try, and some awesome people could pull off a win, but the game favours gear heavily. PVP, you have no choice. A top geared person could run against recruits, and recruits could run against top geared. This is why I dislike the idea of expertise, because at the moment, it's the PVE equivalent of having to battle targets 50-64 with at level 49.

 

And I have no idea where I've gone with this conversation. sorry.

[Olympic]

PvP stat is a horrible idea and its proven just about every day.

 

For those that are worried about some PvE'er owning you, L2P.

[MinguesDew]

For those that are worried about some PvE'er owning you, L2P.

Spoken like a raider or someone who wasn't around for the bad old days.

[Olympic]

Spoken like a raider or someone who wasn't around for the bad old days.

 

I only play to PvP. But I'm not some weakling that got owned in WoW and was perma-scarred for life about it.

[Razot]

I only play to PvP. But I'm not some weakling that got owned in WoW and was perma-scarred for life about it.

 

I know right!

The way they make it sound like if some dude kicked the door and forced them onto the ground and well you know..

Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot

[xxdragonragexx]

Counter point:

You are champion of the keeping the game separated PVP from PVE. So why would the same progression path follow when they are different play styles?

PVP is about competition so wouldn't logic dictate a faster progression as we are not beating on the same scripted NPC's over and over.

Also PVE has a progression meaning you just don't jump into super hard raids at fresh 50 while PVP you jump right into the high end and explode.

 

PvP in a MMO is about building a character. I have fun building my character and letting it go wild. It is like a plant that I cultivate, and when it matures, I reap the benefits called fun. If we have the same gear then stat allocations will play a part. If we both have the same stats, then it is either skill or Random Number Generator that determines the outcome.

 

PvP is competition? LOL. MMO isn't built for competition. It is what nerds do or pretend to have because in reality they cannot compete in sports or anything else. I couldn't care less if this game has expertise or not. It has no effect on me. But I can definitely see why it is needed in order for Bioware to make money. I can definitely see why this game has it or else it will fail.

 

1) You end up in a group with only recruit gear, against a top PVP gear team. You are toast.

2) You end up in a group with top PVP gear, against a top PVP gear team. Makes you feel like you're holding your team back, or leeching off them.

3) You end up in a group with recruit gear, against a recruit gear team. Balanced match, where skill makes the difference.

4) You end up in a group with top PVP gear, against a recruit gear team. Not very nice of you.

 

The answer is "DO THE BEST YOU CAN". Win or lose doesn't matter. It doesn't affect anything in this game. You are paying the same $15 as the other people and you are not ruining their fun because it is part of the game. They need to deal with it. There are worst people in this game like hackers, botters, afkers, leavers and etc.

 

If I have all the gear, I don't care if I win or lose. I'm not going to get any benefit. I already have all the gear I need. It is the same for most people. So why would you care if you are making these top geared players lose? They don't care whatsoever. They just want to have fun, kill stuff, and waste some time.

Edited May 11, 2012 by xxdragonragexx