Sentinel/Marauder - The Problem is NOT DPS.

[Retro_Chrome]

Healers have the best self healing, unless we are really trying to compare the 10-30k a Marauder can self heal to the 500k a healer can drop. Marauders have the best on demand survivablility, because melee dps has the most demand i.e. they have to be in range of their attackers to attack, and no heavy armor. Best single target damage is a limitation, when compared to best overall damage, and they only have that BECAUSE of their defensive CD's. These are not separate, you cut a Marauder's survival in half, their DPS is also cut in half, and you have a "pure damage" class putting up the same damage totals as a healer. Everything else you mentioned is not specific to Marauders or Sentinels.

 

id rather not compare to a healers but a vanguard self heals, i suggest you pay attention to how much heals a vanguard/PT can out put before you down talk your own self healing

[Larry_Dallas]

best offensive with the best defensive cooldowns. thats the problem

 

I'd settle if they just lost the invisibilty instant that makes absolutely no sense for the class to have. And at least one of their cost-free roots.

[LiveandDieinLA]

I'd settle if they just lost the invisibilty instant that makes absolutely no sense for the class to have. And at least one of their cost-free roots.

 

LOL @ Ataru form

[Danryn]

People are actually defending the ******** that is the Sentinel right now? At least try to make it subtle kids, its obvious you just want to ride the overpowered roller coaster as long as possible before the inevitable nerf. Edited May 14, 2012 by Danryn

[Kayse]

I've played almost every class/spec so far except for powertech and sage..and I cannot believe the ignorance that people actually cry on here. I have not had any problem with marauders, at all, despite all their "OP" ness and their master strike thats now uninterrupted except on my dps infiltration shadow, and thats assuming i don't get the first hit off. People are so terribad at pvp...

 

Xserver pvp is going to be lol when all the baddies find something new to QQ about. OH and no im not a "FOTM" player, i've been playing Sent/marauder since 1/21/12 if you think im going to stop playing the only class i think actually has some skill cap to it, aside from healing scoundrels, all because you are bad and you can't pvp you can cry me a river. The class is fine, and has been fine, and if you want to change anything on the class nerf master strike. Its my only complaint on the class, not their defensive cooldowns which are so simple to get around.

[GrantyJPS]

I've played almost every class/spec so far except for powertech and sage..and I cannot believe the ignorance that people actually cry on here. I have not had any problem with marauders, at all, despite all their "OP" ness and their master strike thats now uninterrupted except on my dps infiltration shadow, and thats assuming i don't get the first hit off. People are so terribad at pvp...

 

Xserver pvp is going to be lol when all the baddies find something new to QQ about. OH and no im not a "FOTM" player, i've been playing Sent/marauder since 1/21/12 if you think im going to stop playing the only class i think actually has some skill cap to it, aside from healing scoundrels, all because you are bad and you can't pvp you can cry me a river. The class is fine, and has been fine, and if you want to change anything on the class nerf master strike. Its my only complaint on the class, not their defensive cooldowns which are so simple to get around.

 

Your sig says started a merc, got bored, tried a marauder, loved it so much you made a sentinel.

[Spiggeh]

I think this comes down to a number of things.

 

 

Whine less.

 

Play more.

 

Whine less.

 

Learn the other classes.

 

Whine less.

 

Count how many skills you use in PvP.

 

Whine less.

 

Count how many buttons mara/sent use.

 

Whine less.

 

 

Just play the game for gods sake.

[Kayse]

Your sig says started a merc, got bored, tried a marauder, loved it so much you made a sentinel.

 

Yup, Mercs are so simple to play with no utility/interupts and i dislike being a stationary turret. I actually thought because they had so many "gadgets" they would be one of the most complex classes to play, at lvl 20 i realized how retarded it was but i will admit i loved the bursts but I quickly realized how handicapped the class was. Back then people were saying how bad marauders/sentinels were and how they were the weakest class when the game was released so i played it just for that one reason and ya i loved it. But i got war hero on both my BH/Marauder and i started making all other classes just to find ways to counter them. Out of all i enjoyed Marauder the most not because of their "OP" ness, its the only one i found that actually requires you to be on your toes and use your cooldowns correctly. Peoples li lbias that "oh they popped a defensive cooldown they are immortal" crap gets old.

 

Cloak of pain, just snare/root/cc them for 6 seconds..one whirlwind/concussion/sap, its gone.

 

Saber ward - parries weapon attacks..Okay? Use force/tech/dots, they have 100% accuracy and make it worthless.

 

Undying rage - Immortal for 6 seconds? CC/Kite/throw one dot on them. By the time they get out of undying rage the dot will probably kill them instantly.

 

They go stealth? Grats, you clearly beat the marauder/sent. Now they will heal up to try to get back at you, oh but wait you can do the SAME THING and repeat it. All because you dont kill them doesnt mean you lost, esp if you are still living and they are off hiding in a corner praying you dont see them.

 

Ya we are the best 1 v 1 class in the game, i won't deny that, but i'm a duelist and some class has to be the top 1 v 1, others are best at picking people off (Merc/Sniper) others are better for heals (Duh) and others are good for singling out people and ganking (Shadow/Operatives/Snipers). If you get a scoundrel/Shadow/DPS powertech on me before i notice them I will lose so much of my hp.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Kayse

[Lulzbot]

I don't have a sentinel. My guild doesn't have a good sentinel at 50 (yet)

 

Sentinel's aren't over powered. They are very squishy. You have to pay attention to what skills that are using, ( namely shields) and then counter it with stuns and slows.

 

That's it.

[Lulzbot]

 

Ya we are the best 1 v 1 class in the game, i won't deny that, but i'm a duelist and some class has to be the top 1 v 1, others are best at picking people off (Merc/Sniper) others are better for heals (Duh) and others are good for singling out people and ganking (Shadow/Operatives/Snipers). If you get a scoundrel/Shadow/DPS powertech on me before i notice them I will lose so much of my hp.

 

An operative/scoundrel healer should beat a Sentinel/Marauder, since they can purge the dots, or kite them if they're using another tree.

[Kayse]

An operative/scoundrel healer should beat a Sentinel/Marauder, since they can purge the dots, or kite them if they're using another tree.

 

Exactly. Scoundrel/Op HoTs counter our DoTs in almost completely synch. People don't even realize this. So if Marauders are so OP, i guess that makes Scoundrel heals op as well by their logic. Every class has a counter, marauder actually has a lot.

[alcek]

I don't have a sentinel. My guild doesn't have a good sentinel at 50 (yet)

 

Sentinel's aren't over powered. They are very squishy. You have to pay attention to what skills that are using, ( namely shields) and then counter it with stuns and slows.

 

That's it.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

You can't go toe to toe with mara/sent. He will evaporate you.

You can't kite a mara. The dots will kill you.

You can't outlast his cooldowns. He will outlast you.

All this is done with mediocre gear an skill. With top gear and skill it becomes so one sided, that is just laughable.

[Cormacus]

It's quite funny to see how people try and defend a class that's clearly out of sync with the rest. Doesn't matter how you word it, when a lot of players are suddenly re-rolling a class AND when PvP matches are dominated by the same class.. well it tells you something is wrong.

 

Of course some classes should be afraid of Marauders, but it's beyond normal balance when you can have 2 or 3 Marauders/Sentinels steamrolling a entire team of players, killing them before you have chance to do anything. Add a decent healer to that setup and you've got a unbeatable team. Countless times I've been in matches where we've been 3 players versus a single Marauder who kills us one by one. I'm clearly stupid because I stay there trying to help my team mates thinking that surely 3 of us will be able to take down this single DPS melee player... only to find myself the last one left standing and having to run away or die myself. The sad thing is I often notice it's not a very good PvP player either, the class is in a state that makes it very forgiving, they can jump in to any fight and survive even if they miss or don't manage their abilities or cool downs very well.

 

Clearly something is wrong and for the good of the game something needs to be done, isn't it in everyone interest to have a balanced game? Be it adjustment to the class(es) or expertise damage/mitigation etc. The current class balance is ruining the game for a lot of us players who haven't re-rolled and trying to do our best with our chosen class.

 

I used to love PvP but can hardly make myself login except to do weekly operations with my guild and I'm not the only one who feels the same that's for sure.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Cormacus

[Odahviin]

It's quite funny to see how people try and defend a class that's clearly out of sync with the rest. Doesn't matter how you word it, when a lot of players are suddenly re-rolling a class AND when PvP matches are dominated by the same class.. well it tells you something is wrong.

 

Of course some classes should be afraid of Marauders, but it's beyond normal balance when you can have 2 or 3 Marauders/Sentinels steamrolling a entire team of players, killing them before you have chance to do anything. Add a decent healer to that setup and you've got a unbeatable team. Countless times I've been in matches where we've been 3 players versus a single Marauder who kills us one by one. I'm clearly stupid because I stay there trying to help my team mates thinking that surely 3 of us will be able to take down this single DPS melee player... only to find myself the last one left standing and having to run away or die myself. The sad thing is I often notice it's not a very good PvP player either, the class is in a state that makes it very forgiving, they can jump in to any fight and survive even if they miss or don't manage their abilities or cool downs very well.

 

Clearly something is wrong and for the good of the game something needs to be done, isn't it in everyone interest to have a balanced game? Be it adjustment to the class(es) or expertise damage/mitigation etc. The current class balance is ruining the game for a lot of us players who haven't re-rolled and trying to do our best with our chosen class.

 

I used to love PvP but can hardly make myself login except to do weekly operations with my guild and I'm not the only one who feels the same that's for sure.

 

Dude your "example" shows exactly why your asking for the impossible.

 

pro tip: Devs can't balance individual player skill.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Odahviin

[Cempa]

A Marauder without Enduring Pain drops fast that is the problem, because with it up he tanks really well.

 

Enduring Pain needs to have the 20% reduction reduced.

[Spiggeh]

Ok so I said whine less and people ignored it how about this one then.

 

Get some skills and get better gear?

 

Honestly when Sorcs were (and still are) OP in warzones people whined to hell, what happened? Bad players whined more good players started countering and killing them.

 

 

The whine will never end when bad players are allowed to play games.

[Cormacus]

Ok so I said whine less and people ignored it how about this one then.

 

Get some skills and get better gear?

 

Honestly when Sorcs were (and still are) OP in warzones people whined to hell, what happened? Bad players whined more good players started countering and killing them.

 

 

The whine will never end when bad players are allowed to play games.

 

Incredibly stupid comment.

 

So in your view it doesn't matter if any class is overpowered, that still should be countered with learning to play and get better gear? Or is that only true when your favourite class is overpowered and unbalanced? If anyone needs to learn to play its the majority of re-rolled marauders who's hiding behind a badly balanced system.

 

Me and others are commenting about how we have experienced that there is a clear imbalance with some classes due to changes in 1.2. Those comments are given so that this game can improve and keep us subscribing.

 

I want a fair game, I don't want mine or any other class to be overpowered; stronger or weaker than others, I just want there to be a fairly good balance between the different classes. Not a system that favour the few (with so many re-rollers it's not so few any more). Of course it can never be completely balanced, some will always have a slight advantage which is fine. But that's not what we currently have.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Cormacus

[alcek]

Ok so I said whine less and people ignored it how about this one then.

 

Get some skills and get better gear?

 

Honestly when Sorcs were (and still are) OP in warzones people whined to hell, what happened? Bad players whined more good players started countering and killing them.

 

 

The whine will never end when bad players are allowed to play games.

Sorcs were op? When was that? Even pre-nerf they were okish. After nerf they melt.

[Culltacular]

Sents/Mara's had all these cooldowns pre 1.2, where were the nerf posts then???

 

The major changes for this class involved balancing the left and middle skill trees, left tree remains the stronger dps tree but lacks the upgrades to force camo and speed boost which are now part of the middle tree.

 

People are noticing sents/maras more because master strike/ravage can no longer be interrupted and it received a damage increase.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Sorcs were op? When was that? Even pre-nerf they were okish. After nerf they melt.

 

Sorcs are the hardest class in the game to play. Pre-nerf the terribads who facetanked marauders did ok on them, posst nerf you actually have to kite with them to be good. Sorcs are very well balanced right now.

[oninojb]

How are people more upset over Sentinels/Marauders than Shadows/Assassins.

 

Shadows/Assassins have infinitely more utility than Sentinels/Marauders in every single PvP game mode. While having effectively the same, if not more, survivability through armor, similar defensive cooldowns, and stealth AND they still do similar, sometimes, BETTER DPS.

 

I have no idea why anyone thinks they will be favored in Rateds. Once their defensive cooldowns are gone, they are the easiest class to kill and you don't even have to worry about being kited. Sorcerers/Consulars probably have better "general" survivability than Sentinel/Marauders as a 10% vs 5% defensive chance is far better than having 25% vs 20% armor damage reduction.

 

Rated Objective based Warzones will be about sustained survivability vs burst survivability. Personally, I would never take a Sentinel/Marauder over a Shadow/Assassin. Sentinels/Marauders are just too much of a One-Trick-Pony.

 

I'd say they aren't happy about Shadows/Assassins either... but they're getting their nerf. Sentiels/Mauraders in PvP have been unstoppable since 1.1 and they got buffed in 1.2. Sure they maybe be killable by the time their 3 CD's are used up, but by then they've already dispatched everything in sight. Sorcerers (I can't speak for Sages) get 2 shotted by geared sentinels and that's just rediculous. You know how to avoid being 2 shotted? You don't. It's over in half the time it takes to use guarded by the force.

[neijas]

To be honest, I kill the bad mar/sent with my sorcerer and lose against the really good ones. Talking about skill here and not gear, on my server almost everyone who's still doing pvp when a game is actually happening is geared in WH and everyone knows each other.

 

I usually try to avoid mars/sents though and only take on the fight when it's necessary. As sorcerer you have other, better targets than the exact nemesis class to fight against. Each class has it's nemesis and an easy victim class.

 

I have a marauder as well, and while I have to admit that it's simply more fun to play than the sorc, I don't think it's more powerful. I surely can burst down enemies faster, the defensive cds rock when they are up. But they aren't up all the time, and with medium armor you die just as fast as anyone else in medium armor when the defs are down.

 

And a good tank will usually win the 1on1, not to mention that it's not worth the time trying to take down a tank in 1on1, as marauder you focus on cloth classes, which are your easy prey.

 

Also, as others before me have posted, as marauder / sentinel you have the least utility of all classes. You have no extrication, you have no pushbacks, you have no force pull, no CC at all. You have no force speed, no long duration stealth, no healing. The sniper has tons of stuns/snares/roots while dishing out even more damage than the marauder, but the whining is less.

 

As Marauder you can do but one thing, that is dealing out damage, and you need to be good at least at that and survive long enough to dish out damage. Other classes have other advantages. Nothing is better than pulling the ball carrier into the flames with my assassin on huttball. Or running with my sorcerer from cap point to cp in a flash while dishing out tons of damage, using mostly instants and always on the run, kiting mars/sents as you go.

As Marauder you kill. Point.

[BCass]

Damage isnt a problem. Cooldowns are yes. It is to good that a Mara/Sent can pop cooldowns and solo defend a door or turret until his team respawns and there is very little that you can do to stop it from happening. It is overpowered.

 

The most annoying thing is when they use "godmode" and get healed whilst taking no damage.... I think not only should it cost them 50% hp but also make them unable to recieve heals for that duration in pvp.

[dcgregorya]

We all know the Sentinel/Marauder are massively overpowered, but the problem could easily be fixed by reducing their defence/armour/HPs (I don't know what it is, but they don't die quickly enough).

 

They die plenty quickly enough when you use appropriate hard stuns instead of mez'ing them until their resolve is filled and thereby letting them chain GBTF/UR, medpack, camo.

[WaveRun]

We all know the Sentinel/Marauder are massively overpowered, but the problem could easily be fixed by reducing their defence/armour/HPs (I don't know what it is, but they don't die quickly enough).

 

Lol they aren't overpowered.