Subs down 25%

[BJWyler]

The sad part is that I honestly think I would have been more contented had I not run into server population issues after such a short time, denying me the ability to do pretty much anything at max level. As for requiring a gaming mentality to be interested in something such as this, I tend to disagree; games such as Madden and movie tie-ins disprove this, as people who otherwise know nothing at all about games and who care about them even less are driven to buy them and play them for no other reason than because they like what it's based on. Movie tie-ins are notorious for being absolutely awful, due to low budgets, short development times, and extremely limited design choices, yet people continue to buy them just because it shares the name of an upcoming movie that excites them. These are the kind of people that I feel Bioware and EA marketed toward, and they knew that the Star Wars franchise alone would be enough to attract even non-gamers to at least purchase the game.

 

 

This really makes me wonder if the MMO's that require a monthly payment can survive in today's climate. There's just too many other options and gamers don't need to be as patient as they were in 2004. The only thing saving WoW is the community they've built over the years and that is one of SWTORs biggest weaknesses.

 

We may finally be seeing the transition with the sheer number of big name MMOs going the f2p route from subscription based. It may take another few years, but I think this may even be the last big subscription based MMO if the trend keeps up.

 

That would be SPECIFIC information. You claimed that they had not communicated the BASIC information. I highly doubt that BW has a finalized plan on which servers are going to be taking free transfers, and it will only hurt them if they make specific announcements now and then change them later (reference Ranked Warzones).

 

A great example of why they should not give out specific information too early. When it changes people claim they are contradicting themselves.

 

Indeed. To paraphrase a dev in a recent interview, if BW said they were going to give every player a $10 bill in a paper bag, half the players would complain about them not telling us what color the bag was going to be, the other half would complain that it's not a $20 bill, and the rest would complain it's some trick by the evil corporate EA.

 

BJ

Edited May 12, 2012 by Zilrota
Removed IC in quote

[demonolithic]

When the gates open transfer to:

 

The Shadowlands

[DarthVindictus]

Have you ever run a guild? if you have then you know how hard it is these days to keep guild groups up and running. in a f2p game that would be even worse.

 

In eq we used to run 40+ man raids up to 5 nights a week and it really wasnt that hard, because everyone was invested in the game .

 

In vanilla wow it started to get a bit harder to keep a 40 man running, then they kept lowering the amount of people needed for raids and it still got harder to keep raids going, when i came back to cataclysm i was shocked to see how hard it was to keep a 10 man raid going.

 

I blame it on several things, the games getting too easy and too fast to level, the new mmo player base to name a couple, if you add f2p to that mix it just gets even worse because f2p players are even less invested in their characters than the typical new breed of mmo player.

 

Subscription fee has never been a reason for why I got invested in a character in an MMO. Time spent playing, and who I was playing with and the community I was playing on and the game I was playing were the big things that made me feel invested in a character.

 

The subscription itself is negligible. Look at me now, I cancelled my subscription.. if I had felt invested in my characters that might not be the case.

[JeramieCrowe]

Subscription fee has never been a reason for why I got invested in a character in an MMO. Time spent playing, and who I was playing with and the community I was playing on and the game I was playing were the big things that made me feel invested in a character.

 

The subscription itself is negligible. Look at me now, I cancelled my subscription.. if I had felt invested in my characters that might not be the case.

 

I've played a few F2Ps, and I have to disagree slightly. I started a new character after LotRO went F2P, for example. I just could not get into my character being so restricted unless I paid real cash, and more than $15, too, to really feel the same connection I feel when I get everything, or the opportunity for anything, for a set $15 a month.

 

To be fair, though, I consume a LOT of content per month....

 

Hmm...perhaps F2P is more suited for the casual than someone like me?

Edited May 12, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Altinar]

I've played a few F2Ps, and I have to disagree slightly. I started a new character after LotRO went F2P, for example. I just could not get into my character being so restricted unless I paid real cash, and more than $15, too, to really feel the same connection I feel when I get everything, or the opportunity for anything, for a set $15 a month.

 

To be fair, though, I consume a LOT of content per month....

 

Hmm...perhaps F2P is more suited for the casual than someone like me?

 

I think the attitude you have toward F2P is just a habit developed over the course of playing subscription based MMOs; after enough time and enough repetition of content, everyone inevitably starts to feel that the only thing that's really driving them to play is the need to "make their money count". I'd say that's a function of you speeding through content and getting burnt out faster than the payment model itself, but I can definitely sympathize, as the greater part of my last two years playing WoW were mostly driven by a sense that I just had to put the money I was throwing into subscription fees to good use. However, I do have to side with Vindictus on this one: I think personal investment in the development of your characters and the need to "keep them up to speed" is what really drives people to stick to one particular MMO. I will digress from Vindictus' claims, though, and say that I believe the most important factor is guilds, as developing relationships with real people in a game is definitely the strongest reason to keep playing a game.

[Valkirus]

I've played a few F2Ps, and I have to disagree slightly. I started a new character after LotRO went F2P, for example. I just could not get into my character being so restricted unless I paid real cash, and more than $15, too, to really feel the same connection I feel when I get everything, or the opportunity for anything, for a set $15 a month.

 

To be fair, though, I consume a LOT of content per month....

 

Hmm...perhaps F2P is more suited for the casual than someone like me?

 

I consider myself a '"casual gamer" and the FTP games are usually too restricted to get into as you have noted. FTP, should be just that. Like D3 or GW ( not sure about the second one. ) no restrictions, no limit on your level...the sky is the limit on what you can do in the game. Some will use the micro transactions for D3. But I won'nt. I will play it like I did with D2 , only with some friends and only use what we get on drops.

 

I donot see TOR ever going true FTP. They may one day go to a FTP to say level 10 or 20..like Rift and WoW are. But never to the point of LOTRO.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Valkirus

[DarthVindictus]

If getting all of everything is less than $15/month, I'll be highly surprised.

 

OKay, so you're still on this tangent that assumes that you get as many character slots as you want, is covered by your subscription.

 

Things like vanity mounts, vanity costumes, minipets are being sold ON THE SIDE of subscription MMO's already

 

Your subscription does not cover them in WoW.

 

Extra character slots are another thing, that's never covered in subscription.

 

The only times where a subscription covers "getting it all" vs a la carte.. is when developers do like LotRO, which is to make zones of eriador cost points to unlock each zone (well the quests in it) a la carte, each instance a la carte. In that situation you take into serious consideration... is a one time purchase of this zone, or a $15/month subscription going to be more economical?

 

It really depends.if you need to buy ALL of the zones at once, yeah, it can get pricey, but afterward, you aren't paying for them anymore, if you pay the subscription rate, you get them all for a set price, but if you stop paying the subscription, they become unavailable again (this isn't the case for Moria, Lothlorien, Mirkwood, or Dunland/Isengard, as those areas are bought with the expansions that contain them)

 

The way I see it, if you're fiscally responsible.. you may pay more in a single month to buy several zones, but if you buy nothing else afterward, it balances out and you come out ahead in the long run.

 

But in a model like GW2.. the whole game is offered F2P, there's nothing in their cash shop that would normally be covered by a subscription, everything is premium items (cosmetically anyway) or character slots, or conveniences like miracle plant food to make dye seeds you find in the world grow instantly instead of taking 24 hours (and dyes of course, are purely cosmetic).

 

If TOR were to drop the required subscription, but make all the current content in the game F2P, but offered vanity speeders, cosmetic upgradeable gear, companion customizations, race changes/makeovers (heck even gender changes), extra character slots, expanded storage, a shared storage between characters (so you didn't have to mail things back and forth, make the shared storage free, but offer expanded slots a premium), name changes, fleet passes (the same ones you can buy from security key vendors), legacy name changes, mini pets...

 

A savvy player could play the game as they do right now, 100% free. They would be missing nothing.

 

But someone who's a crazed alt-o-holic might spend a lot on character slots, people who like cosmetics or collect speeders might spend a lot on cosmetics and speeders.. but the thing is.. they have that option..

 

Currently you don't. Your subscription doesn't cover name changes, race changes, gender changes, changing hairstyle, legacy name changes, it doesn't hand out all the minipets to you for free, or all the speeders in the game for free because it's covered in your subscription, you can't roll as many characters as you want on one server because it's covered in your subscription...

 

Do you understand what I'm getting at yet?

 

If someone is paying for all that excess stuff.. it's not stuff they'd normally be getting covered by a subscription if the model is good.

[JeramieCrowe]

I think the attitude you have toward F2P is just a habit developed over the course of playing subscription based MMOs; after enough time and enough repetition of content, everyone inevitably starts to feel that the only thing that's really driving them to play is the need to "make their money count". I'd say that's a function of you speeding through content and getting burnt out faster than the payment model itself, but I can definitely sympathize, as the greater part of my last two years playing WoW were mostly driven by a sense that I just had to put the money I was throwing into subscription fees to good use. However, I do have to side with Vindictus on this one: I think personal investment in the development of your characters and the need to "keep them up to speed" is what really drives people to stick to one particular MMO. I will digress from Vindictus' claims, though, and say that I believe the most important factor is guilds, as developing relationships with real people in a game is definitely the strongest reason to keep playing a game.

 

Well... You're talking to a guy who's admittedly in quite the minority. I have plenty of free time, and I'm a completionist when it comes to any game, really. Hell, I have 6 profiles with two different characters on Skyrim alone. And that's not as bad as Mass Effect, TOR, or Alpha Protocol, not to mention every other MMO I've played. EQ2? 12 characters. And that costed me extra for 4 more slots.

 

If I can't be a completionist for $15/month or less, I'm just not interested.

Edited May 12, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[JeramieCrowe]

*a bunch of stuff that is not news to this decade+ MMO vet*

 

Yeah, dude. I know. And I just answered all of this, I'm sure.

[DarthVindictus]

I've played a few F2Ps, and I have to disagree slightly. I started a new character after LotRO went F2P, for example. I just could not get into my character being so restricted unless I paid real cash, and more than $15, too, to really feel the same connection I feel when I get everything, or the opportunity for anything, for a set $15 a month.

 

To be fair, though, I consume a LOT of content per month....

 

Hmm...perhaps F2P is more suited for the casual than someone like me?

 

Not what I"m saying, what I'm saying is that the fact that I'm paying $15 a month is the last thing on my mind for how much a character means to me.

 

I'd feel more crushed over losing my ranger or ritualist in Guild Wars than I would my TOR character, because I put far more hours into them, but I never paid a subscription for them.

 

Hell, there were MUDs I played on back in the day, I quit playing because an immortal got angry and decided to travel to me, slay me, and eat my corpse (losing all of my items) because I killed his mortal character in pvp. I never paid a dime, but I was invested in that character through time, through people I played with, and I got very upset when I lost it all like that.

 

Technically I was paying a subscription for my level 14 operative.. was I invested in that operative? No. I could lose the character and not even blink

 

Time invests you, a monthly subscription fee does not.

[DarthVindictus]

Yeah, dude. I know. And I just answered all of this, I'm sure.

 

So why are you still arguing that those premium things are normally covered by subscription and that you "get it all" for $15 a month but have to spend more to "get it all" a la carte? The things you're buying in the in game store are different from the things you're paying $15 a month for.

[Valkirus]

Not what I"m saying, what I'm saying is that the fact that I'm paying $15 a month is the last thing on my mind for how much a character means to me.

 

I'd feel more crushed over losing my ranger or ritualist in Guild Wars than I would my TOR character, because I put far more hours into them, but I never paid a subscription for them.

 

Hell, there were MUDs I played on back in the day, I quit playing because an immortal got angry and decided to travel to me, slay me, and eat my corpse (losing all of my items) because I killed his mortal character in pvp. I never paid a dime, but I was invested in that character through time, through people I played with, and I got very upset when I lost it all like that.

 

Technically I was paying a subscription for my level 14 operative.. was I invested in that operative? No. I could lose the character and not even blink

 

Time invests you, a monthly subscription fee does not.

 

Umm...I donot agree with this in some points. My sub does make me want to spend time playing the game, because time is money and I spent the money and feel like I should be playing it to justify the cost involved. I have a level 64 Burgler in LOTRO. And I pay no sub for it. Canceled that a long time ago. Rarely ever play him. And the reasons was not the sub cost, but the direction the game went. I could for free go back to play him....but I have no desire to.

 

In Tor..I have a 50 jedi shadow...and if they went to FTP, ..with the game in it's present state..I donot think I would want to play him. Or even feel the need to. But at the present..I do feel a need to play him because of the sub. And it is flustrating wanting to play him and the game sucking for level 50 chars, while I am still paying a sub.

[JeramieCrowe]

Not what I"m saying, what I'm saying is that the fact that I'm paying $15 a month is the last thing on my mind for how much a character means to me.

 

I'd feel more crushed over losing my ranger or ritualist in Guild Wars than I would my TOR character, because I put far more hours into them, but I never paid a subscription for them.

 

Hell, there were MUDs I played on back in the day, I quit playing because an immortal got angry and decided to travel to me, slay me, and eat my corpse (losing all of my items) because I killed his mortal character in pvp. I never paid a dime, but I was invested in that character through time, through people I played with, and I got very upset when I lost it all like that.

 

Technically I was paying a subscription for my level 14 operative.. was I invested in that operative? No. I could lose the character and not even blink

 

Time invests you, a monthly subscription fee does not.

 

Time does invest you into your character much more than a fee, that's for sure.

 

That's what makes it subjective, don't you agree?

 

How much a person's time is worth to each individual is completely different than the next. I'm an altaholic completionist. Hell, even in TOR I have 11 characters. On all of them, appearance is foremost in my mind because I'm a roleplayer.

 

My gnome in EQ2 spent more than 2 month's sub for one outfit. Why? In games without F2P or RMT, that would have been provided for the same $15 I pay for a sub. Why did I have to pay extra for that? For anything an altaholic completionist with an eye for fashion would want?

 

Greed.

 

So, my choice is quite simple: Pay $15 a month for ALL content in the game (including alts and appearances), or pay much MUCH more for ALL content in a game.

 

It really is a no-brainer.

Edited May 12, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[DarthVindictus]

Time does invest you into your character much more than a fee, that's for sure.

 

That's what makes it subjective, don't you agree?

 

How much a person's time is worth to each individual is completely different than the next. I'm an altaholic completionist. Hell, even in TOR I have 11 characters. On all of them, appearance is foremost in my mind because I'm a roleplayer.

 

My gnome in EQ2 spent more than 2 month's sub for one outfit. Why? In games without F2P or RMT, that would have been provided for the same $15 I pay for a sub. Why did I have to pay extra for that? For anything an altaholic completionist with an eye for fashion would want?

 

Greed.

 

So, my choice is quite simple: Pay $15 a month for ALL content in the game (including alts and appearances), or pay much MUCH more for ALL content in a game.

 

It really is a no-brainer.

 

But that outfit WOULDN'T have been provided for you for your subscription rate.. don't you see? Vanity stuff like that where they make their artists actually put some care into the work goes for premium. WoW sells mounts and minipets. They are premium, not included in the game for subscribers to get free of charge. That's what I consider to be a misconception.. that you assume you'd get this extra stuff without paying a premium because you're paying a subscription. It's not necessarily true.

[JeramieCrowe]

But that outfit WOULDN'T have been provided for you for your subscription rate.. don't you see? Vanity stuff like that where they make their artists actually put some care into the work goes for premium. WoW sells mounts and minipets. They are premium, not included in the game for subscribers to get free of charge. That's what I consider to be a misconception.. that you assume you'd get this extra stuff without paying a premium because you're paying a subscription. It's not necessarily true.

 

It would have been. It may have been a top raid set, one that took months to get, but it still would have not costed me real money.

 

I admit, if it was an option to pay $30 for the set OR raid for 6 months, I wouldn't mind. That option has never been there, though, in my experience.

 

If, however, GW2 has an ingame time option for EVERTHING they provide on their market, I don't have a problem.

[DarthVindictus]

It would have been. It may have been a top raid set, one that took months to get, but it still would have not costed me real money.

 

I admit, if it was an option to pay $30 for the set OR raid for 6 months, I wouldn't mind. That option has never been there, though, in my experience.

 

If, however, GW2 has an ingame time option for EVERTHING they provide on their market, I don't have a problem.

 

No, they sell some cosmetic outfits at a premium. That's a REALLY entitled attitude if you think everything should be provided to you via subscription, you currently pay a subscription and DON'T have those outfits, you DON'T have those character slots.. and you just expect them to deliver them covered in the subscription?

 

It makes no business sense when they are already getting your money via subscription and NOT providing those things.. for them to start providing them without charging premium.

 

It's the reason WoW has microtransactions on TOP of its subscriptions, the reason the Secret World has microtransactions on TOP of subscriptions.

 

They can milk you for more money that way.

 

Remember, they have you convinced that the $15 a month subscription is "necessary" to keep the servers up. The servers cost $7.5 million dollars a month to keep up you know.

Edited May 12, 2012 by DarthVindictus

[JeramieCrowe]

No, they sell some cosmetic outfits at a premium. That's a REALLY entitled attitude if you think everything should be provided to you via subscription, you currently pay a subscription and DON'T have those outfits, you DON'T have those character slots.. and you just expect them to deliver them covered in the subscription?

 

It makes no business sense when they are already getting your money via subscription and NOT providing those things.. for them to start providing them without charging premium.

 

It's the reason WoW has microtransactions on TOP of its subscriptions, the reason the Secret World has microtransactions on TOP of subscriptions.

 

They can milk you for more money that way.

 

Remember, they have you convinced that the $15 a month subscription is "necessary" to keep the servers up. The servers cost $7.5 million dollars a month to keep up you know.

 

I guess you haven't mosied on over the the Appearance Discussion thread that's been going for the last three years? That's currently gone more than 25,000+ posts?

 

I've MMOd for over a decade. They REMOVED some high level appearances to sell for MORE than the usual $15/month. "Entitled" my ***...

 

If it wasn't the norm before, I wouldn't say it should be included. But to REMOVE something that was included before to suddenly have to pay extra for? You're an idiot if you think that's suddenly okay....

Edited May 12, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[DarthVindictus]

I guess you haven't mosied on over the the Appearance Discussion thread that's been going for the last three years? That's currently gone more than 25,000+ posts?

 

I've MMOd for over a decade. They REMOVED some high level appearances to sell for MORE than the usual $15/month. "Entitled" my ***...

 

If it wasn't the norm before, I wouldn't say it should be included. But to REMOVE something that was included before to suddenly have to pay extra for? You're an idiot if you think that's suddenly okay....

 

What am I looking for here? I don't see a yellow post saying you're entitled to get every cosmetic piece of gear for free included in your subscription fee.

 

Look, here's the reality you have to come to accept. Bioware or any other developer MAY use subscription money to continue to develop new content for the game, but they don't HAVE to. You are paying the subscription for ACCESS to the game, as it is currently, on their servers. That's it. That's 100% of what you're ENTITLED TO when paying for a subscription. They could simply pocket all of that money if they wanted to, after paying their overhead. You could complain about the game stagnating.. but your subscription does NOT entitle you to any amount of future content they may or may not develop. It would be really DUMB of them NOT to use some of the money invested back into the game towards new content to retain their subscribers.. but it is their choice, unless you can point to me in the EULA where it says that the subscription is meant to cover new content development (which would be awfully dumb of them to do, meaning contract law would prevent them from being able to make premium offerings or paid expansions)

 

There's a reason they are called "FREE content updates" or FREE patches.

 

Your subscription may fund them, but your subscription is not directly paying for them, because that's not a part of the contract.

 

and I agree, it's not okay to remove something already in game and then charge a premium for it, but I think it's PERFECTLY OKAY to ADD something not currently in the game, for a premium, provided it gives no gameplay advantages, but is purely cosmetic, aesthetic, or "quality of life" things like extra character slots, bank storage, etc. Nothing that makes you PERFORM better than another player in content though. But if Bioware wants to sell vanity speeders that don't currently exist in the game? More power to them.

Edited May 12, 2012 by DarthVindictus

[illgot]

Don't argue with JC, I found he... confuses facts with assumptions and will say anything and use corrupt sources to back up any argument.

 

I learned a while ago to put him on ignore.

Edited May 12, 2012 by illgot

[JeramieCrowe]

What am I looking for here? I don't see a yellow post saying you're entitled to get every cosmetic piece of gear for free included in your subscription fee.

 

Look, here's the reality you have to come to accept. Bioware or any other developer MAY use subscription money to continue to develop new content for the game, but they don't HAVE to. You are paying the subscription for ACCESS to the game, as it is currently, on their servers. That's it. That's 100% of what you're ENTITLED TO when paying for a subscription. They could simply pocket all of that money if they wanted to, after paying their overhead. You could complain about the game stagnating.. but your subscription does NOT entitle you to any amount of future content they may or may not develop. It would be really DUMB of them NOT to use some of the money invested back into the game towards new content to retain their subscribers.. but it is their choice, unless you can point to me in the EULA where it says that the subscription is meant to cover new content development (which would be awfully dumb of them to do, meaning contract law would prevent them from being able to make premium offerings or paid expansions)

 

There's a reason they are called "FREE content updates" or FREE patches.

 

Your subscription may fund them, but your subscription is not directly paying for them, because that's not a part of the contract.

 

There is no reality I have to accept that if they want to ADD more than the usual MMO element for a price, fine. If they want to TAKE AWAY what was typically the MMO element and then CHARGE MORE for it, hell no. There is no precedent for this in the economy anywhere where that's okay. In fact, I can point you to specific examples where something like that has resulted in a coup.

 

Or, if they want to add a non-monetary OPTION to acquire it, I don't care how long it takes (pre-CU jedi here, I really don't care how long it takes) that's fine, too.

 

But to make something that didn't cost extra before suddenly cost extra now....hell no. That has never, and never will be, acceptable.

[JeramieCrowe]

Don't argue with JC, I found he... confuses facts with assumptions and will say anything and use corrupt sources to back up any argument.

 

I learned a while ago to put him on ignore.

 

Really? So, you would be perfectly happy to pay $30 extra for something that you didn't have to pay anything for last year? Please. Tell me you would. Tell me... Go ahead....

[JeramieCrowe]

and I agree, it's not okay to remove something already in game and then charge a premium for it, but I think it's PERFECTLY OKAY to ADD something not currently in the game, for a premium, provided it gives no gameplay advantages, but is purely cosmetic, aesthetic, or "quality of life" things like extra character slots, bank storage, etc. Nothing that makes you PERFORM better than another player in content though. But if Bioware wants to sell vanity speeders that don't currently exist in the game? More power to them.

 

Ohhh, the good ol' stealth edit.

 

Ok, you agree then? Most stuff I've run into with every game that's either gone F2P or started F2P, has done just this. And, like I said before, I'll be pleasantly surprised if GW2 doesn't take something that was included with the usual sub before and make it cost more.

 

But, to find something that didn't used to be included with they typical $15/month sub will be very hard to do, indeed.

 

......

 

I will make one concession here: The sub cost of $15/month hasn't changed in 15 years. F2P is....shall I say covertly?.... trying to make up for that difference.

 

If, however, we are to make concession for F2P's recovering an unchanging income versus an increase in development cost, should we also not make the same concessions for current sub-based developers?

 

If you won't, I won't either. How's that sound for fairness?

[DarthVindictus]

Really? So, you would be perfectly happy to pay $30 extra for something that you didn't have to pay anything for last year? Please. Tell me you would. Tell me... Go ahead....

 

What we're saying is like take this example.

 

Guild Wars before the store was put in, you had at most 9 character slots. You could not acquire any more. If you wanted 1 of every class, you had to buy a second account. Your bank storage was shared across all characters on that account. It had 4 tabs for a total of 80 slots of storage (not counting the crafting material storage panel). You could not get any more in the game. There were no costumes in game for cosmetic appearances, though there were (and still continue to be) festival hats for special occasions (which are free and new ones are designed for each festival each year)

 

The store came in offering character slots, up to 4 more bank tabs (doubling storage, plus there was a limited time promotion for a 9th bank tab for free), and new cosmetic costumes designed for a holiday event. All were sold at a premium.

 

Was that okay, or do you feel entitled that you should have gotten all those additions for free?

[DarthVindictus]

BTW, why this is on topic is that I am suggesting an opportunity to fix the failing subscriber rate is to go F2P/Freemium

[JeramieCrowe]

What we're saying is like take this example.

 

Guild Wars before the store was put in, you had at most 9 character slots. You could not acquire any more. If you wanted 1 of every class, you had to buy a second account. Your bank storage was shared across all characters on that account. It had 4 tabs for a total of 80 slots of storage (not counting the crafting material storage panel). You could not get any more in the game. There were no costumes in game for cosmetic appearances, though there were (and still continue to be) festival hats for special occasions (which are free and new ones are designed for each festival each year)

 

The store came in offering character slots, up to 4 more bank tabs (doubling storage, plus there was a limited time promotion for a 9th bank tab for free), and new cosmetic costumes designed for a holiday event. All were sold at a premium.

 

Was that okay, or do you feel entitled that you should have gotten all those additions for free?

 

It's hard to say, to be honest. You're not providing me with any prices, here. I've already stipulated that my average alt number is 12, with being able to dress each alt as I choose (including holiday events), even if it takes months of raiding. (Like I said, I'm a pre-CU jedi for SWG. Months upon months of grinding is normal for me). As well as a decade of being a raid leader. I also like to do every quest and content that's available for me.

 

For the last 15 years, I've been able to do that for $15/month. Can I do that for $15/month in GW2? You tell me. I'm telling you that I honestly don't know. I am ignorant. Please educate me.

Edited May 12, 2012 by JeramieCrowe