Subs down 25%

[Klax]

Well Just cancelled my sub...

 

Loved the Story lines (played Rep Shadow to 50 and Imp Sin to 50 and virtually all classes an sub classes to 12-34).

 

Classes are virtually identical even between practical classes. In effect.. DPS, Tank, or Healing. You choose the cute graphic...

 

End game gear grind... same as WOW and all the other Max/Min games out there.

 

I'll check back from time to time to see how the game progresses.

 

Enjoy!

[Jebei]

No one knows where subscriptions are going to be in 3 months but you can look at past games with similar issues and make a pretty good guess. If you look at Rift, Warhammer, and Conan they all had initial rapid growth but fell to about 70% off their peak subscription numbers at the 6 month mark and to 40% after 9 months then leveled off at 30% around the 1 year mark as the diehards continued to keep the the games going.

 

If SWTOR took the same path they'd be at 1.2MM at 6 months, 700k at 9 months, and level off at 500k by the end of the year.

 

This doesn't prove anything but I think we can all agree that the numbers are going to decline unless Bioware can move quickly to address the game's issues.

[Altinar]

No one knows where subscriptions are going to be in 3 months but you can look at past games with similar issues and make a pretty good guess. If you look at Rift, Warhammer, and Conan they all had initial rapid growth but fell to about 70% off their peak subscription numbers at the 6 month mark and to 40% after 9 months then leveled off at 30% around the 1 year mark as the diehards continued to keep the the games going.

 

If SWTOR took the same path they'd be at 1.2MM at 6 months, 700k at 9 months, and level off at 500k by the end of the year.

 

This doesn't prove anything but I think we can all agree that the numbers are going to decline unless Bioware can move quickly to address the game's issues.

 

While it may not prove much, it's certainly worthwhile to note that Warhammer was also published by EA, and that, coincidentally, a lot of Warhammer's developers are now sitting at Bioware. Though it may not say anything concrete, it's certainly a dire omen for SWTOR's future.

[JeramieCrowe]

Keep telling yourself that.........

 

Many people cancel their subs when they become involved in another game. Why pay a sub when you don't play? I am going to GW2 and I canceled my sub, am I a minority for doing so? I highly doubt it.

 

*shrugs* I dunno why. I currently play TOR, Skyrim, Mass Effect 1-3, and Alpha Protocol. When TOR came along, I cancelled my sub for Rift. But only because I can't afford two subs.

Edited May 11, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[tokyov]

Just cancelled my sub too. Ill be back when server merges/transfers happen. Until then, no point in playing, as prime time on my server there are literally 50 people in fleet. Not fun.

[Darkulous]

No one knows where subscriptions are going to be in 3 months but you can look at past games with similar issues and make a pretty good guess. If you look at Rift, Warhammer, and Conan they all had initial rapid growth but fell to about 70% off their peak subscription numbers at the 6 month mark and to 40% after 9 months then leveled off at 30% around the 1 year mark as the diehards continued to keep the the games going.

 

If SWTOR took the same path they'd be at 1.2MM at 6 months, 700k at 9 months, and level off at 500k by the end of the year.

 

This doesn't prove anything but I think we can all agree that the numbers are going to decline unless Bioware can move quickly to address the game's issues.

 

Certainly seems to be following those others. I wonder if they thought they had a guarantee winner because of the IP and slacked off because of it.

[JeramieCrowe]

No one knows where subscriptions are going to be in 3 months but you can look at past games with similar issues and make a pretty good guess. If you look at Rift, Warhammer, and Conan they all had initial rapid growth but fell to about 70% off their peak subscription numbers at the 6 month mark and to 40% after 9 months then leveled off at 30% around the 1 year mark as the diehards continued to keep the the games going.

 

If SWTOR took the same path they'd be at 1.2MM at 6 months, 700k at 9 months, and level off at 500k by the end of the year.

 

This doesn't prove anything but I think we can all agree that the numbers are going to decline unless Bioware can move quickly to address the game's issues.

 

Well, 500k would be what BioWare called last year.

[vallor]

They could right the ship somewhat with either cross server ques or merges.

 

As someone that LOVES the game, Im ready to fold up because I play alone most of the time.

 

I feel exactly the same way. I want to play with other people but the clock is ticking.

[Jebei]

Well, 500k would be what BioWare called last year.

 

I thought I heard them say they could have 500k subscriptions and break even. That would be bad news as I doubt EA is going to invest much more in this title to make needed improvements. That's why I'm hopeful subscriptions stay above 1 million as that would fund space combat, further stories, additional PVP/Ops, etc.

[BJWyler]

My comment may have suggested otherwise, but I understand that Bioware isn't the first and certainly won't be the last company to falsely advertise, I understand this well. The only reason I had to include those examples is because I know that I would have gotten an endless sea of trolls hounding me had I not. Regardless, the point stands in that we, as in you and me, are gamers; this means that we tend to be informed, knowledgeable, and intelligent when examining the potential of a game and whether or not it's worth our buy.

That's a debatable point (not you and me per se, but generally speaking).

 

The average person, however, cannot make these deductions like we can, and it is exactly that kind of person Bioware aimed for with its marketing.

 

As much as we as gamers are getting more intelligent in our buying habits and our criticisms of game developers and publishers, it means jack all in the scheme of things, because we will likely be the minority long past now. The fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who have never played a game in their life, or who just don't give a crap about anything beyond exactly the game they're buying, and it is those people that developers and publishers are targeting, because they know that this crowd is easy, easy money. I have a sneaking suspicion that those people compose a good chunk of the initial buyers, as well as composing most of the 200k or so that never subscribed after the free month. All losses beyond that were likely people on the fence or those who couldn't stand this game's faults (and rightfully so). Just as an addendum, I think that the PR sham would be discussed in place of the lost subs because people only tend to complain about ethical or moral issues when it involves something they're passionate about, and just because false advertising really is more or less the status quo does not mean that is the way it should be.

 

Regarding expectations, mine were not anywhere close to met. Though I didn't expect the "epic adventure" the PR tried to sell to us, I did expect an MMO that would be enjoyable, relatively bug-free (within reason, I understand that launches are almost always bugged to high hell), and most of all that would keep my attention and give me reason to keep playing. Sadly, I found the first and third in small doses, and the second overflowing (after 3 months of so many issues and idiocy from the QA department, I stopped giving leniency). Frankly, while I love the Star Wars universe, think they did a good job overall with integrating the stories and developing the OR universe, and that some of the armors and equipment are good looking, I just can't get past the utter lack of interesting and engaging content, the horrendous pvp, the promises for content in patches broken or delayed, and the general lack of polish to the game's mechanics. I love my Sith Marauder, but it's sad when the best I get to do with him is stand around and do nothing for more than 60% of my playtime.

 

I disagree with what you are saying from a general standpoint, but again, that's what advertising is all about - appealing to the lowest common denominator. Just look at the political advertising in the US. It's pretty much at the point now where opponents can and will create advertising that outright lies about each, and it can be refuted countless times, but in the end, they know it will be effective because the unwashed masses will believe if they see it on TV. Gaming advertising can really be no different in the end - they'll gear it to appeal to those they know will be pulled in by it.

 

In the end, it's those type of people, the Farmvillers and Peggleites that will be pulled in by it, and consequently head elsewhere, as you say. Most likely these are the type of people that got drawn in and were part of the first exodus. However, for a game such as this, you still have to have a gaming mentality to tempted by the advertising in the first place. My wife is not a gamer (nor a big SW fan), so it doesn't matter how pretty or exciting the advertising might be, she'll never be pulled in by it. My mother is a casual gamer (casual as in the type that EA was talking about in the report - the "Farmviller" so to speak), and a big Star Wars fan, but this wouldn't be a game I would recommend to her because she simply is not the MMO-type of gamer.

 

In the end, regarding expectations, no game, regardless of the rhetoric, will be able to please everyone. It's good that you were able to cut through the hype and kept expectations at a reasonable level. Unfortunately, the mechanics of the game ended up not being what appeals to you. For me, it offers enough at this point to keep me entertained and enjoying the game long enough to see if more can be added and improved. It's like trying a different type of food for the first time - you might not have high expectations, but in the end you either like it or you don't. I wish you could enjoy the game the way I do, but c'est la vie - fortunately there are many more out there that hit the mark.

 

Certainly seems to be following those others. I wonder if they thought they had a guarantee winner because of the IP and slacked off because of it.

 

Maybe EA might have, but in all reality, the IP didn't save the myriad of craptactular Star Wars games that have been released over the years, and didn't push SWG over a million. An IP, even a big IP like SW can only take you so far, and I think the developers realize that even if publishers don't.

 

BJ

Edited May 11, 2012 by BJWyler

[JeramieCrowe]

I thought I heard them say they could have 500k subscriptions and break even. That would be bad news as I doubt EA is going to invest much more in this title to make needed improvements. That's why I'm hopeful subscriptions stay above 1 million as that would fund space combat, further stories, additional PVP/Ops, etc.

 

They said 500k, at least, for a year, would return the investment. After that, it would maintain. If it ramps down to 500k by the end of the year, they're ahead of the game.

 

That said, it's obviously EA's goal to increase subs. To do that, BioWare's got their work cut out for them...

[Sanxxx]

They said 500k, at least, for a year, would return the investment. After that, it would maintain. If it ramps down to 500k by the end of the year, they're ahead of the game.

 

That said, it's obviously EA's goal to increase subs. To do that, BioWare's got their work cut out for them...

 

If it ramps down to 500k by year end they will be well behind as the return on investment will be minimal, break even would not be an acceptable position for a large corporate.

[Nyteblades]

The sad part is it seems like with bioware. They are going to do what they want when they want and to hell with any customers needs. Its we will do it or fix it when we deside to not before.

 

They cant blame it on development and be honest. Because if its taking thier team 3 or more months to implement something that shouldnt take more than 6 weeks max then they are incompetent.

 

They cant say they are holding it intentionaly because the fall out would be horendous.

 

And there is absolutely no other reasons than them 2 why this system isnt open already. Its incompetence or intentional .

 

So troll me cry fowl or defend them till your content. But it dosnt change the fact that this could have and should have been done well before now.

 

Maybe if they would get over all the fluff and flash, And focus on the issues at hand completly instead of of partialy dealing with it while trying to spam out a bunch of add on fluff they could get the job done.

 

Basicly untill they learn to prioratize and focus on the major major issues at hand instead of flashy extras. The game is going to keep melting away like a snowball in hell.

[JeramieCrowe]

If it ramps down to 500k by year end they will be well behind as the return on investment will be minimal, break even would not be an acceptable position for a large corporate.

 

How's that? 500k for the first year. It's been more than double, even triple that for a few months...

[Altinar]

That's a debatable point (not you and me per se, but generally speaking).

 

 

 

I disagree with what you are saying from a general standpoint, but again, that's what advertising is all about - appealing to the lowest common denominator. Just look at the political advertising in the US. It's pretty much at the point now where opponents can and will create advertising that outright lies about each, and it can be refuted countless times, but in the end, they know it will be effective because the unwashed masses will believe if they see it on TV. Gaming advertising can really be no different in the end - they'll gear it to appeal to those they know will be pulled in by it.

 

In the end, it's those type of people, the Farmvillers and Peggleites that will be pulled in by it, and consequently head elsewhere, as you say. Most likely these are the type of people that got drawn in and were part of the first exodus. However, for a game such as this, you still have to have a gaming mentality to tempted by the advertising in the first place. My wife is not a gamer (nor a big SW fan), so it doesn't matter how pretty or exciting the advertising might be, she'll never be pulled in by it. My mother is a casual gamer (casual as in the type that EA was talking about in the report - the "Farmviller" so to speak), and a big Star Wars fan, but this wouldn't be a game I would recommend to her because she simply is not the MMO-type of gamer.

 

In the end, regarding expectations, no game, regardless of the rhetoric, will be able to please everyone. It's good that you were able to cut through the hype and kept expectations at a reasonable level. Unfortunately, the mechanics of the game ended up not being what appeals to you. For me, it offers enough at this point to keep me entertained and enjoying the game long enough to see if more can be added and improved. It's like trying a different type of food for the first time - you might not have high expectations, but in the end you either like it or you don't. I wish you could enjoy the game the way I do, but c'est la vie - fortunately there are many more out there that hit the mark.

 

BJ

 

The sad part is that I honestly think I would have been more contented had I not run into server population issues after such a short time, denying me the ability to do pretty much anything at max level. As for requiring a gaming mentality to be interested in something such as this, I tend to disagree; games such as Madden and movie tie-ins disprove this, as people who otherwise know nothing at all about games and who care about them even less are driven to buy them and play them for no other reason than because they like what it's based on. Movie tie-ins are notorious for being absolutely awful, due to low budgets, short development times, and extremely limited design choices, yet people continue to buy them just because it shares the name of an upcoming movie that excites them. These are the kind of people that I feel Bioware and EA marketed toward, and they knew that the Star Wars franchise alone would be enough to attract even non-gamers to at least purchase the game.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Zilrota
removed IC

[WrecklessMEDIC]

The sad part is it seems like with bioware. They are going to do what they want when they want and to hell with any customers needs. Its we will do it or fix it when we deside to not before.

 

They cant blame it on development and be honest. Because if its taking thier team 3 or more months to implement something that shouldnt take more than 6 weeks max then they are incompetent.

 

They cant say they are holding it intentionaly because the fall out would be horendous.

 

And there is absolutely no other reasons than them 2 why this system isnt open already. Its incompetence or intentional .

 

So troll me cry fowl or defend them till your content. But it dosnt change the fact that this could have and should have been done well before now.

 

Maybe if they would get over all the fluff and flash, And focus on the issues at hand completly instead of of partialy dealing with it while trying to spam out a bunch of add on fluff they could get the job done.

 

Basicly untill they learn to prioratize and focus on the major major issues at hand instead of flashy extras. The game is going to keep melting away like a snowball in hell.

 

Remind me again why you're still playing the game? And don't give me the tired retread of "I cancelled my sub already and have X amount of days left so I have nothing better to do".

 

Please, you're still paying and playing.

[Sanxxx]

How's that? 500k for the first year. It's been more than double, even triple that for a few months...

 

It's because I'm struggling to find the quote that supports ..

 

'They said 500k, at least, for a year, would return the investment. After that, it would maintain.'

[Valkirus]

Eh, D3 won't hardly affect subs. Most of the time, the only thing that makes people unsub is another competing sub. Otherwise, people get games like D3, or ME3, or Skyrim, and because they don't take a sub, there's no reason to unsub from an MMO.

 

GW2 would almost fit into the 3PS category, having no sub....

 

I think you are wrong. It will affect subs and even if it does not in some ways..it will affect the number of players you will see in the game next week...inc myself. And for a long times afterwards. Not years maybe, but many months. I am speaking of D3..it has a very loyal fan base who will be enjoying it for a long time. Plus...why pay a sub when you can enjoy a game and not pay one? Not saying personally I will unsub because of D3, as my sub is good until Aug. 17th. I will have to see what state TOR is then to decide if I want to continue to sub to it.

[Nyteblades]

Remind me again why you're still playing the game? And don't give me the tired retread of "I cancelled my sub already and have X amount of days left so I have nothing better to do".

 

Please, you're still paying and playing.

 

I am still playing because there is still parts of the game i enjoy. I never said i hate the game, Never even said i dislike the game. I am a huge SW and bioware fan . Have been for years but i am also quickly growing unhappy with them. I realy want to see this game grow and become what it has the potential to be.

 

But i also am noone's blind follower. Nor will i set back and not voice my thoughts on something i feel is a huge issue with a product i pay for and enjoy. And yes while it ticks me off that they are hideing behind soons's maybes and half truths. On issues that should be priority in more ways than in a devs post. I hang in there because i overall still atm enjoy the product. And have dwindling hopes left that they will wake up realize players are not as blind or ignorant as they first seemed to believe.

[arcdaemon]

This game sucks once you hit lvl 50 deal with that.

[DarthVindictus]

Eh, personal experience dictates that I'd much rather pay $15/month for all content available than more for all content. The average F2Per pays $28/month, and my wife playing a F2P almost broke us...

 

Then your wife is not being fiscally responsible. I spent some money on GW, but overall I paid less than what I would have if I'd been paying for a subscription and I got perks that would not normally come with a subscription, like extra character slots. Point me to a subscription MMO that lets you "earn" more character slots through play so that you can have 1 of every class on the same server? In my experience character slots are always a premium upgrade, never covered in the subscription.

 

I paid $0 on Lord of the Rings since it went F2P aside from $30 on the last expansion I bought last year. Subscription MMO's have paid expansions too, TOR will be no exception.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

I am still playing because there is still parts of the game i enjoy. I never said i hate the game, Never even said i dislike the game. I am a huge SW and bioware fan . Have been for years but i am also quickly growing unhappy with them. I realy want to see this game grow and become what it has the potential to be.

 

But i also am noone's blind follower. Nor will i set back and not voice my thoughts on something i feel is a huge issue with a product i pay for and enjoy. And yes while it ticks me off that they are hideing behind soons's maybes and half truths. On issues that should be priority in more ways than in a devs post. I hang in there because i overall still atm enjoy the product. And have dwindling hopes left that they will wake up realize players are not as blind or ignorant as they first seemed to believe.

 

Glad to hear you haven't given up and quit then. Too many gamers these days are far too impatient and overly-demanding.

 

Given time SWTOR will become only better and better as the years go by. Don't get me wrong I don't think it's perfect today by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that's what a lot people were expecting. For some reason they thought this was going to be the game to end all others, which was just a tad unrealistic.

[Mallorik]

f2p would mean instant death for any kind of progression raiding in this game. if they want to keep trying for the people that play the game for a few levels on several characters then go to another game then f2p is a good idea. I wont be playing it.

[arcdaemon]

Glad to hear you haven't given up and quit then. Too many gamers these days are far too impatient and overly-demanding.

 

Given time SWTOR will become only better and better as the years go by. Don't get me wrong I don't think it's perfect today by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that's what a lot people were expecting. For some reason they thought this was going to be the game to end all others, which was just a tad unrealistic.

 

 

Your wrong people expected this game to be playable @ lvl 50 sadly it is not.

[DarthVindictus]

Glad to hear you haven't given up and quit then. Too many gamers these days are far too impatient and overly-demanding.

 

Given time SWTOR will become only better and better as the years go by. Don't get me wrong I don't think it's perfect today by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that's what a lot people were expecting. For some reason they thought this was going to be the game to end all others, which was just a tad unrealistic.

 

I'm only here because they threw a free month on my account, I unsubscribed April 13th, 2012, my account ran out April 20th, 2012.. somehow I was still able to log in and even play if I wanted for a few days.. then I saw they added 30 more to my account.. dunno why there was no lapse at all, technically for 4 days I shouldn't have been able to log in.

 

But, I can't be bothered to actually play, I'm still pretty bored with 90% of the content, if i could level entirely on class quests I'd do it, but every time I start doing planetary quests now I start getting sleepy so.. not even going to bother logging in, 90% of the content doesn't egage me anymore because I've seen it.