Looking for Commando PvP Build

[Kontraz]

Hi all, I played gunnery commando prior to 1.2 (full battlemaster), but even before the patch I started to play around on alts. Now I've returned to my commando and found him to be rather useless in PvP. What suggestions do you have as far as builds and rotations (I'm not trying to stick with just gunnery, any dps build is fine)?

[Remulan]

Hi all, I played gunnery commando prior to 1.2 (full battlemaster), but even before the patch I started to play around on alts. Now I've returned to my commando and found him to be rather useless in PvP. What suggestions do you have as far as builds and rotations (I'm not trying to stick with just gunnery, any dps build is fine)?

 

Your best bet is to reroll to any other advanced class if your focus is pvp and you want to enjoy it. Once rated warzones are released you will not be getting on even a half decent team as a commando/merc so if you reroll now you can have another class geared and ready to go when they are released.

 

Of course, if you don't want to do that (and who really does?) Diablo 3 comes out next week and GW2 comes out in less than 2 months and neither charges you monthly to dissapoint you.

[Pavixx]

Assault is the way to go.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=443181

[Redcorn]

I say reroll and stay away from non-glow-stick classes. If you must play a trooper go vanguard.

 

Speaking for PVP only...PVE is okay.

[Kontraz]

rerolling isn't really a viable option. I have full battlmaster with a few war hero pieces. Just trying to find a halfway decent build until they decide to do something worthwhile with our class.

[dejavy]

The game will die faster than BW manage to do something decent with Commando.

 

If you don't want to reroll - full assualt is your choice BUT forget about rated WZs. Commando is too shi**ty just now and i don't think a team would agree to pull the fat dead commando behind. Even if they up his DPS, it won't help coz the AC is too easily shut down by melees and is too squishy for hard battles having almost no survivability skills.

 

I left my Commando 74 valor full BM of course with some WH items. Tried Vanguard (66 valor full bm) but didn't like his melee style. Now i'm Gslinger 42lvl, feel really fine. Not sure i'll keep playing coz the game is destroying itself making thousands to leave it, all my friends are in the list as well. My free month ends in june 03 and my region Diablo3 release is in june 07...so....seems SWTOR will lose another player

 

But still i wish you good luck with your commando.

[oaceen]

i recommend this for straight healing and this for dps

 

lately i've been using a hybrid assault/gunnery spec that's a lot of fun to play, but i don't know if i'd necessarily recommend it. i'm still getting used to it myself, and i'm not sure if it's really better than going full assault.

[Pavixx]

i recommend this for straight healing and this for dps

 

lately i've been using a hybrid assault/gunnery spec that's a lot of fun to play, but i don't know if i'd necessarily recommend it. i'm still getting used to it myself, and i'm not sure if it's really better than going full assault.

For your assault build, I would forgo Field Training in favor of Steadied Aim to make concussive round more reliable and charged bolts more spamable.

 

Gunnery and CM/Gunnery hybrid will probably be popular in ranked WZs

[sensiblepoast]

Reroll. Seriously.

[SeloDaoC]

reroll and play with the same 10 marauders and assassin tanks still playing on your server over and over

[olrikus]

Commando is a very good class to play in PvP, but it requires some brains to use. Haven't played a lot as a healer, so will explain some things about DPS aspects of Commando

Zero - you need Razer Naga or anything that will allow you to use your skills fast

First of all you need eliminator set. If you have WH set - get augmented versions and put best Aim + End augments to it.

Second - Tier 7 matrix cube with Aim, End, Crit (made from 3 blue matrix shards).

Third - tactics. It differs from gunnery to assault spec, but here are some common ideas:

- you are not a tank, so don't play like a tank. It will hurt you.

- you are ranged DPS, so don't try a close combat. It will hurt you

- your first aid can remove burning effects, and tenancy can interrupt force chokes. Use them wisely.

- concussion charge is you fest friend (especially in huttball). Stock strike (with perk) will help you too, because it breaks channeling (and most damageable abilities of marauders are channeled)

- your worst enemies are marauders and assassins, but if they are distracted by your party members (with stuns etc) - they will die the same way as others. And watch out for resilience and skills like that, they will zero your tech attacks

- use reactive shield in the beginning of the combat. This ability is useless when you are dead

- use trinkets (relics) for crit or power anytime you can

- use medpacks and stims every time you can

- use crafted pyro grenades

- concussive round can be fired instantly with right use of abilities

- remember, teamplay is everything (if you are not significantly outgeared of course). Focus of 2-3 commandos is near instantly lethal to anyone. So leave dueling and imba chitchat to those who want a chitchat. You are a man of action

- play other classes in PvP so you will find their strong and weak points fast. Use this knowledge as advantage.

 

Hybrid assault-gunnery spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800ZMIkRMbZfIMbzubM.1

You can play with it, so you will have less agility in combat but more DPS (put little more in assault tree) but the common idea is in burning your targets and spamming with charged bolts and high impact bolt. Fast recharging tenacity and conclusion charge should improve your survivability. Build like this http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800ZMIkMzZfIMbzuhMc.1 will provide you more DPS in combat but it plays little bit different.

 

Gunnery spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#8000cZMIkrRrdokczZrc.1

Actually you will suffer from the lack of ammo, so it requires some skill in long term combat but 2 Grav + Demolition + Grav + HIB + Full Auto (with Curtain of Fire, requires some attention). This spec is not mobile at all, but with right use it will kill opponent in few seconds. Most important part is to find a place to be a turret. You should be able to take a shot on anyone in area of interest (like turret or ball spawn). Even assassins feel bad after few 7k crits on them.

 

Both trees imply that you will tank by DPS (kill enemies faster than they kill you).

 

And remember. When enemies start to focus on you instantly when they see you despite any circumstances, you are on a right track

Edited June 5, 2012 by olrikus

[azhrione]

Egads, that Gunnery build does not look good for PVP. First off Alacrity is awful, it causes ammo regeneration issues with Cell Charger due to internal cooldowns. The only time Alacrity should be taken at all is if you are full or near full Campaign gear for PVE and your crit, surge, accuracy are all capped, and your Bonus Tech Damage is over 900. For PVP it could be argued if you are in top tier fully optimized War Hero gear that Alacrity is useful, but most people looking for advice here are not going to have put in the grind for that.

 

PVP Gunnery, if you are willing to stick with it should run one of these builds:

 

If you are first starting out, or need crit.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/commando#32-1378de8e7l2-30

 

Advanced PVP for after critical has been capped.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/commando#1-1378de8e7l2-c32

 

Super advanced top tier gear Alacrity Build.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/commando#2032-1318de8e7l2-c

 

Cover Fire is absolutely needed for PVP builds since you need to be able to weave in Full Auto, and the snare component is incredibly useful. Even though Expertise is almost always the right call, consider using using a 2/2 set bonus setup. The +15% crit from the PVE Elminator gear 2-piece bonus is probably worth losing 220 Expertise for, especially if you are already at or near 1200 Expertise from being in near full WH gear. If you have access to Campaign gear, you can steal the Armor improvements and put them into WH gear to preserve the set bonus, get a little more Aim/End, and only net a loss of 120 Expertise. However this is very expensive.

 

Your hybrid builds are odd, in that you miss out on both capstone abilities, which are very good. The primary thing you gain here is some some additional combat control in Shockstrike and Concussion Charge improvements, but I am not sure this is enough to offset the loss in DPS. I think in the long run a standard Assault build is just better overall, those 5-6k AP vadabooms just trump the improved combat control.

 

Default Assault build.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/commando#0-732-92ki1eel2

 

Last three points can go into either Field Training, if you need crit, or Steadied Aim if crit is capped.

Edited June 5, 2012 by azhrione

[oaceen]

i don't know why anyone would use the matrix cube in lieu of a power and crit/surge click-activation relics when burst is what you desperately need more than anything else in PVP

 

as for marauders, the absolute worst thing you can do is fill their resolve bar with stuns and other CC. get them to about 30%, cryo grenade, burst them down, then keep moving.

 

 

i've tested out a lot of hybrid specs, and they just don't really work. at the very minimum, assault needs burnout and gunnery really needs everything if you're going to be using armour-piercing rounds.

and i would take Parallactic Combat Stims and Degauss way before Weapon Calibrations when running assault.

 

 

and as azhrione said, cover fire is essential for gunnery pvp. anyone looking for good gunnery PVP builds, the ones azhrione posted are very solid.

our assault builds are very similar and i have a lot of success with it

[azhrione]

i don't know why anyone would use the matrix cube in lieu of a power and crit/surge click-activation relics when burst is what you desperately need more than anything else in PVP

 

I use both, a Matrix Cube and a +Power WH Relic. Matrix Cube is still the best bang for the buck since the cooldown relics are all shared. It is on all the time, and never actually hurts you. Some people will say you should never ever sacrifice Expertise for Main Stats, but in this case I think it trumps anything a second PVP relic could offer.

 

58 AIM (70))

50 END (55)

24 Crit

[oaceen]

since the cooldown relics are all shared.

 

relics only have a shared CD if they are the same type.

i use one power and one crit/surge relic. there's a 20s lockout after using one before you can use the other, but they do not have a shared CD

[azhrione]

relics only have a shared CD if they are the same type.

i use one power and one crit/surge relic. there's a 20s lockout after using one before you can use the other, but they do not have a shared CD

 

Does that only apply to the pvp relics? I just tested with two PVE relics and they both shared the same cooldown. Even if they are not on the same timer, I would still take the Matrix Cube over a Crit/Surge relic. The reasoning being that my Surge is already 77% and Crit is hovering near 40%. The relics do not add straight numbers to the stats and are affected by diminishing returns. Plus 3% Crit/Surge for 10 seconds every three minutes does not look all that great in comparison to the Matrix Cube which is always on.

[oaceen]

Does that only apply to the pvp relics? I just tested with two PVE relics and they both shared the same cooldown. Even if they are not on the same timer, I would still take the Matrix Cube over a Crit/Surge relic. The reasoning being that my Surge is already 77% and Crit is hovering near 40%. The relics do not add straight numbers to the stats and are affected by diminishing returns. Plus 3% Crit/Surge for 10 seconds every three minutes does not look all that great in comparison to the Matrix Cube which is always on.

i suppose so.

 

i can unequivocally say that the PVP relics at least do not have a shared CD (but using one imposes a 20s lockout of the other), but i have not tested this with PVE relics.

 

 

for PVE, i use the matrix cube and an internal damage relic since, as you say, they are always on and will give me a constant boost in damage, but i find a lot of use out of the on-use relics in pvp (i also use crit and power adrenals, which i don't find much cause for in PVE except when we've hit the enrage timer and they're close to death)

 

 

i still think that burst is important for pvp, but my surge is ~78% and my crit is ~%38 (ranged) and ~44% (tech), so i'll try out the matrix cube instead of the crit/surge relic and see if i notice any improvements.

[azhrione]

Power relic tends to be better than proc ones due to the long internal cooldown and very limited amount of damage they do. Power is not affected by diminishing returns, so you almost always get the biggest bang for the buck. A 400 point boost to Power will give a significant increase in overall damage and can lead to some epic crits.

 

My order of priority assuming that you are 30% Crit, 75% Surge is this:

 

Power > Aim > Endurance > Surge > Crit

[oaceen]

i do agree that power relics and power adrenals are more beneficial than crit, and, i'll do some of my own tests to be sure, but as i understand it from other's tests, the proc relics are the best bang for your buck for sustained damage in prolonged fights, followed by the matrix cube, and lastly the on-use relics.

[Framon]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800MZMckzZMIMrzGGMs.1

 

I tend to use this build, i do around 400k - 500k dmg in full games

 

Use reactive shield early because with the 2 points in reflexive shield will start reducing cooldown right away.

[olrikus]

You miss the point of my specs. Commando DPS should kill target before your target even tries to do something that's why it needs maximum DPS on a single target. For my gunnery spec it's like -2 enemies before the end of the ammo and it helps my team more than any silly numbers. You will be dead soon after (and will have full ammo after resp), but the result of your actions will be -3 imperials (if we assume that your party members were able to kill someone else while you spread a terror on the enemies) and -1 rep (you, because in my practice I'm always the target number one). With assault hybrid spec I can kill anything with less than 20k HP solo without a problem, but it would take longer than with assault spec.

 

AOE is good for distracting and medals, but nothing more, that's why assault plastique is not worth the point in it. Burnout will not help you kill your target fast too, so situation is the same as with assault plastique. Coverfire will not add DPS to you so it's nice to have but with right position to fire it will not help you a lot. If we talk about hybrid spec - it's for plasma cell, not the armor one. Point is to spam target with charged bolts and HIB and keep it burning. First responder actually is a bad idea because you should put 6-7 points in combat medic so you need to remove some points from somewhere else. Expertise is everything and you loose too much with PvE gear. Even 50 expertise is significant. You will say that for sure after the fight with marauder who will have +41 expertise against you and matrix cube increases this difference for additional 57 expertise. 2 pve items remove 200+ expertiese from you and reduce survivability so you will die before your second kill in a row.

 

Try to kill more people instead of getting damage numbers.

[azhrione]

You miss the point of my specs. Commando DPS should kill target before your target even tries to do something that's why it needs maximum DPS on a single target. For my gunnery spec it's like -2 enemies before the end of the ammo and it helps my team more than any silly numbers. You will be dead soon after (and will have full ammo after resp), but the result of your actions will be -3 imperials (if we assume that your party members were able to kill someone else while you spread a terror on the enemies) and -1 rep (you, because in my practice I'm always the target number one). With assault hybrid spec I can kill anything with less than 20k HP solo without a problem, but it would take longer than with assault spec.

 

AOE is good for distracting and medals, but nothing more, that's why assault plastique is not worth the point in it. Burnout will not help you kill your target fast too, so situation is the same as with assault plastique. Coverfire will not add DPS to you so it's nice to have but with right position to fire it will not help you a lot. If we talk about hybrid spec - it's for plasma cell, not the armor one. Point is to spam target with charged bolts and HIB and keep it burning. First responder actually is a bad idea because you should put 6-7 points in combat medic so you need to remove some points from somewhere else. Expertise is everything and you loose too much with PvE gear. Even 50 expertise is significant. You will say that for sure after the fight with marauder who will have +41 expertise against you and matrix cube increases this difference for additional 57 expertise. 2 pve items remove 200+ expertiese from you and reduce survivability so you will die before your second kill in a row.

 

Try to kill more people instead of getting damage numbers.

 

I'm not entirely sure you know what the abilities do here.

 

Assault Plastique is NOT an AE, and does very high damage while allowing the coordination of burst.

 

Cover Fire DOES add DPS, just not directly a snared melee is not hitting/interrupting you allowing you to finish your Full Auto channel.

 

Going Assault without getting Assault Plastique creates gimpy DPS, even if the dip into Gunnery gets you better combat control abilities.

 

Expertise is comparative and subject to diminished returns. Total Expertise is irrelevant, only Expertise compared to your opponent matters. Because of diminishing returns it is in your best interest to move points out of Expertise and into things that will have a greater impact. For example, if I have 1000 Expertise and a Marauder has 1220 Expertise, that is a difference of 220 which equates to about a 3% damage boost and a 1.5% reduction effect. I'll gladly take that trade for an additional 50 Endurance, 50 Aim, and 15% Crit increase to Grav Round.

[olrikus]

I'm not entirely sure you know what the abilities do here.

 

Assault Plastique is NOT an AE, and does very high damage while allowing the coordination of burst.

My mistake. Anyway I was unable to see the significance of this ability. Maybe I use it wrong.

Cover Fire DOES add DPS, just not directly a snared melee is not hitting/interrupting you allowing you to finish your Full Auto channel.

Jugs and marods mostly jump on me. Concussion Charge reduces their speed the same way. Targets under force speed seem to be immune. In some situation it still can be useful but I personally dislike to spend 2 points in it.

Going Assault without getting Assault Plastique creates gimpy DPS, even if the dip into Gunnery gets you better combat control abilities.

I find charged bolts spam along with HIB quite effective. Assault plastique doesn't provide so much agility and DPS as it should for it's cost.

 

Expertise is comparative and subject to diminished returns. Total Expertise is irrelevant, only Expertise compared to your opponent matters. Because of diminishing returns it is in your best interest to move points out of Expertise and into things that will have a greater impact. For example, if I have 1000 Expertise and a Marauder has 1220 Expertise, that is a difference of 220 which equates to about a 3% damage boost and a 1.5% reduction effect. I'll gladly take that trade for an additional 50 Endurance, 50 Aim, and 15% Crit increase to Grav Round.

I was unable to survive for 2 kills under such setup. And 1 to 1 exchange will not help my teammates a lot.

Edited June 6, 2012 by olrikus

[azhrione]

My mistake. Anyway I was unable to see the significance of this ability. Maybe I use it wrong.

 

Think of this as an opening rotation in PVP.

 

Assault Plastique > Incendiary Round > High Impact Bolt

 

Assault Plastique will go off right as High Impact Bolt hits, creating burst and much higher damage than if you had done.

 

Incendiary Round > High Impact Bolt > Charged Bolts > RNG > High Impact Bolt

 

Not to mention it only costs 2 Ammo, is instant, cannot be dispelled, and hits HARD (2-5k).

 

Jugs and marods mostly jump on me. Concussion Charge reduces their speed the same way. Targets under force speed seem to be immune. In some situation it still can be useful but I personally dislike to spend 2 points in it.

 

Think of this example both with and without Cover Fire:

 

Concussion Charge > Grav Round > Full Auto

 

The reason for this is to give you the best chance to not only do the most damage with Full Auto, but to take it off of cooldown if needed. Without Cover Fire, your Full Auto likely gets interrupted as the bad guy will have already reached you. With Cover Fire you get to finish your Full Auto, caused their Resolve to tick down a little more making a Cyro Grenade safe, and maximize the damage potential of Full Auto. Nothing much you can do about flying monkeys if they leap, best to hope for is that they already used their leap getting to you in the first place.

 

I find charged bolts spam along with HIB quite effective. Assault plastique doesn't provide so much agility and DPS as it should for it's cost.

 

In Assault, Full Auto should take priority over Charged Bolts due to higher proc chance. Again the use of Assault Plastique is all in the planning to generate burst.

 

I was unable to survive for 2 kills under such setup. And 1 to 1 exchange will not help my teammates a lot.

 

I do not think of this as a 1v1 situation, or a 2v1, or 3v2 etc. TTK (Time To Kill) is greatly dependent on class, player, and cooldown usage. I do not think I could ever quantify a spec on kills per death, I do not die that much. The suggestoin for wearing PVE gear was made for highly geared Gunnery Speced Commandos who have a lot to gain from an improvement to Crit on Grav Round.

 

I would not ever suggest dropping your Expertise below 1000 if you can avoid it, but sometimes the PVE gear is just flat out better than the PVP gear. Black Hole/Campaign Belt is just flat out better than the War Hero Elminator's Belt, by a huge margin especially if you are well into diminished returns for Expertise. Same thing for the Matrix Cube relic, if I gain a massive .21% damage increase and a .6% damage reduction compared to someone with equal gear by using a second PVP relic, then I will take the +70 Aim, +55 Endurance, +24 Crit (Adjusted for talents/buffs) every single time.

[olrikus]

Think of this as an opening rotation in PVP.

 

Assault Plastique > Incendiary Round > High Impact Bolt

 

Assault Plastique will go off right as High Impact Bolt hits, creating burst and much higher damage than if you had done.

 

Incendiary Round > High Impact Bolt > Charged Bolts > RNG > High Impact Bolt

 

Not to mention it only costs 2 Ammo, is instant, cannot be dispelled, and hits HARD (2-5k).

For assault spec:

sticky grenade -> tech override -> reserve powercell -> plasma grenade -> Charged Bolts -> High Impact bolt (depends on situation, delaying sometimes for finishing)

 

OR

 

sticky grenade -> Incendiary round -> Charged bolts -> High impact bolt

 

Think of this example both with and without Cover Fire:

 

Concussion Charge > Grav Round > Full Auto

 

The reason for this is to give you the best chance to not only do the most damage with Full Auto, but to take it off of cooldown if needed. Without Cover Fire, your Full Auto likely gets interrupted as the bad guy will have already reached you. With Cover Fire you get to finish your Full Auto, caused their Resolve to tick down a little more making a Cyro Grenade safe, and maximize the damage potential of Full Auto. Nothing much you can do about flying monkeys if they leap, best to hope for is that they already used their leap getting to you in the first place.

As I sad, it can be useful, but in most situations I don't have a chance to put such ability to good use, so I leave it.

 

In Assault, Full Auto should take priority over Charged Bolts due to higher proc chance. Again the use of Assault Plastique is all in the planning to generate burst.

I'm always a target 1 for enemies on my server, so full auto is interrupted if it goes first. I use it most of the time as a DPS/ammo efficient way to reduce enemy health in the middle of the fight and save HIB or Demolition round to finish the target.

 

I do not think of this as a 1v1 situation, or a 2v1, or 3v2 etc. TTK (Time To Kill) is greatly dependent on class, player, and cooldown usage. I do not think I could ever quantify a spec on kills per death, I do not die that much. The suggestoin for wearing PVE gear was made for highly geared Gunnery Speced Commandos who have a lot to gain from an improvement to Crit on Grav Round.

 

I would not ever suggest dropping your Expertise below 1000 if you can avoid it, but sometimes the PVE gear is just flat out better than the PVP gear. Black Hole/Campaign Belt is just flat out better than the War Hero Elminator's Belt, by a huge margin especially if you are well into diminished returns for Expertise. Same thing for the Matrix Cube relic, if I gain a massive .21% damage increase and a .6% damage reduction compared to someone with equal gear by using a second PVP relic, then I will take the +70 Aim, +55 Endurance, +24 Crit (Adjusted for talents/buffs) every single time.

I'm talking about WH geared guys. On my server we don't have much of PvPers so I play mostly with the same guys and we are in Vent all the time. Start of the match is always the same, and then it depends only on amount of crits and low geared 50s.

200 expertise is actually a big difference. So I use only pve relic. Remember, marauder will always have 41 expertise more than maxed you. So actual difference will be about 250 or more.

Edited June 6, 2012 by olrikus