Premades are responsible for failed MMOs

[Sporticus]

well one nade can wipe group movers

 

these premades that Hug healers.....what can you do by yourself? I try to circle to clump melee, flash bang...then pop everything and burn healer....if anyone has their CC breaker, the plan doesn't work.....I die regardless, but I love taking out the healer before I go..which does happen 1 out of 8 times I bust a group.

 

So, in BF3 for example, if a squad has a couple of medpacks and ammo down at their location and therefore don't die when you nade them, are they 'exploiting' a group mechanic?

[Criosdh]

Teamwork isn't even the bulk of the disadvantage.

 

Classes are nerfed all the time because of how their abilities stack to an undesired effect. The sorc in DAoC being one of the most notorious examples. RA that give serious damage reduction plus a RA that gave uninterruptable casting + base lifetap spell equaled practically untouchable sorc every cool down interval.

 

The same thing can happen across classes. Imagine a 1 vs 1 fight between a sentinel and a guardian. Now imagine a 1 vs 1 fight between a sent and a sage. Now imagine a 2 vs 2 fight, 2 sents vs a guardian and a sage. Now you have a guardian with a damage shield bubble and practically unlimited health and a sage with serious damage reduction AND the damage shield bubble and healz.

 

This kind of overlap can be tweaked further and further the larger the group gets. It can also be tweaked even further using particular class builds. The list goes on.

 

PUGS can do nothing against this. PUG group make up usually ends up being mostly random in warzones. So not only are PUGs at a major communication disadvantage due to lack of vent/etc but class make up and specific class specs take this even a step further.

 

So even if you have a PUG of highly skilled players that communicates well they are STILL at a big disadvantage.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Notannos
rude quote

[DarthSabreth]

I can understand the frustration of premades when you pug, and not everyone is in a guild (nor wants to leave their guild) that PVP's a lot. I had it happen to me last night, a particular republic premade group comes in and just owns most of the time. Because their side has a lighter population this is what you see most of the time and the imps are more populated and since 1.2 there is a **** load of new people in pvp... beyond gear, most are clueless about the post 50 PVP game and dont know the maps nor the place in the WZ and huge learning curve. So PUGS lose against them a lot...

 

With that said, I just log and take a break if I get too frustrated, but most of the time even against them I am still getting 7 to 10 medals and 60 to 80+ comms, so in the long run it doesnt really matter.

 

Personally, premades IMHO should only be allowed in rated WZ's, but like i said earlier, the Pub side is light so they would probably still end up mostly forming together anyway.

 

I agree with you, i am taking a long break from pvping and rolled an alt on another server in the other faction. being destroyed repeatedly over and over for hours is not very fun. i will go back to pvping though as soon as they seperate the pugs from the premades. in the mean time i am enjoying playing the republic, all the quests are new and ive never done them before so its a refreshing break.

i do miss my main tho i love that toon.

Edited May 5, 2012 by DarthSabreth

[Raansu]

"Well, bye!" I quit, Premades 1-Me 0

 

 

 

Is there no way to design a game where players can play with each other w/o OP benefits from the synergy between classes?

 

Guarding healers, chain stun locks, friendly pulling, group speed burst,tandem sleep darts,..etc,etc....exploited skills.

 

Is it that hard to see how PvE skills will be abused in PvP?

 

Maybe i should just play FPS's...head shot's kill..EVERYONE..but this Jug+healer taking on 4 dps...is IMO a completely broken and abused model.

 

Excuse me, but aren't more people playing Solo (solo WZ ques) than Group ques(premade)?

 

So PVP devs design PvP where group play trumps all? Seems Bass Ackwards.

 

 

How about tanks can only guard themselves? balance around take less dmg/do less dmg....take more dmg/do more dmg

 

Maybe Healers' Healing should come directly from their own HP...let them have 31 pt skills that give them +500 endurance or 20k HP, but every time that they Heal it comes directly from their pool and they only can heal others, only dmg they do replenishes their own HP. (just a thought)

 

In my view, PvP is broken if 8 random ACs =/= 8 other random ACs

 

I don't exactly know why people say that there shouldn't' be 1 vs 1 balance without synergies, besides their own bias...But I've got too little time to waste on FOTM builds and tag teaming stunlocks.

 

see yall around..for maybe 46 more days. but I don't want to see another 2Jug/2OP healers with 4 assassins or marauders picking up the slack....from the boards, I can see I am not alone. From the ques and quits, i can see that I am not alone.

 

So go ahead and make your snide comments, how everyone from 14 to 60 y/o should be playing in premades to have "fun", or whatever ridiculous justification you have concocted to justify broken. I don't care anymore, i'm out.

 

I get that premades should be separated from solo queue...but your complaints about game balance is just "***?"

[Sabredance]

People grouping in an MMO

 

That said i pug all the time.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Sabredance

[Monterone]

Completely agree OP, I have canceled as well, for various reasons but the PvP imbalance and the state of warriors definitely being one of them.

 

A smash spec jugg/guard with a healer can fend of and defeat groups of dps. The damage output is pretty crazy when most classes try hard just to get the 5k medal and usually fail; warriors can not only hit much higher than 5k but it's an AoE -- just brilliant stuff guys! Throw in a marauder to single target people around or add another smash spec to the mix and the speed goes to ludicrous.

 

Was not having fun any more after 1.2 so I also pulled the plug -- hope they get the point with so many people leaving, despite the marauder and jugg apologists.

[Johanjj]

This is stupid, why do you want 8 people to not coperate in a team vs team fight ?

Dont ban premades, ban solo quee instead. Whats so hard about adding a few players you think performed well in wz to your friend list and quee together ?

Edited May 5, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content

[Helistin]

To an extent this is true. Playing on a very low populated server with a premade against pugs and random rep premades when we won atleast 9 games out of ten just made the people that still tried to play pvp even though the really low population made people people just quit trying anymore.

The result? Been 5 days since the last warzone was played on my server. And it's a 'pvp' server

[mechintel]

My favorite part of this thread is that people feel that playing with other people should be optional in a genre that is defined by being able to play with other people.

[RenegadeSLX]

Premades ruin pvp for YOU. Personally my guild and I hate playing against random baddies and relish the times we play against good premades.

[Crimescene]

The sad, cold hard truth of the matter is simply this:

 

There aren't enough people playing to further split up the queues by separating premades from pugs.

There are about 10 times more servers than needed right now, splitting the pool too thin.

 

This is the worst MMO for PvP that I have ever seen. Period.

Bringing rated play into this craptastic PvP system is going to be hilarious.

 

Good luck, Bioware.

[Crimescene]

My favorite part of this thread is that people feel that playing with other people should be optional in a genre that is defined by being able to play with other people.

 

[ ] Queue Solo

 

Says it's optional.

 

People are playing with other people, they just don't always play with RL friends, because most RL friends aren't dumb enough to want to play ToR for it's PvP. It's KOTOR 3, and oh look there's some real people in it.

[mechintel]

[ ] Queue Solo

 

Says it's optional.

 

People are playing with other people, they just don't always play with RL friends, because most RL friends aren't dumb enough to want to play ToR for it's PvP. It's KOTOR 3, and oh look there's some real people in it.

 

MMOs used to be about making virtual friends as well as getting your reallife friends to join you on your adventures. It was NOT about logging on to grind.

[GRINnBARRETT]

Interesting topic. I tend to only pvp at endgame after burning out on raiding in that other game. Hopefully with cross-server queuing & rateds, the solo queue will only have solo queuers. But I'm fairly sure we will get back-filled into premade matches b/c premaders are too impatient to wait in queues while their group queue fills up. I'm not going to make any hasty (sic) decisions until I see how that pans out.

[mechintel]

Imagine a game where you were FORCED to queue with 8 people. You'd have to actually talk to people on your server and make friends if you actually wanted to do anything in the game. HOW TERRIBLE!

 

Solo-queuers are the problem with the game not the premades.

[RenegadeSLX]

Imagine a game where you were FORCED to queue with 8 people. You'd have to actually talk to people on your server and make friends if you actually wanted to do anything in the game. HOW TERRIBLE!

 

Solo-queuers are the problem with the game not the premades.

 

Its cool to force guilds to solo queue though. Thats why they are in guilds.... to play solo.

[Pcolapat]

All I can say is that for the past three days the same premade group on our server has been destroying every team that the empire can throw against them. Not just beating them, but totally destroying them. In one of the matches I played in I tied for the most kills...I had one kill. Something is very broken with this game. The PVP department at bioware is killing their own game. Players are quitting left and right on our server. I am not going to quit, but I am disappointed that bioware failed so badly in the design of their PVP. It looked so promising prelaunch. If I were running bioware i would put the entire development team on it and fix PVP. It is just getting worse and worse not better and better. I don't know what they need to do, but i see the ship sinking fast.

[GRINnBARRETT]

Imagine a game where you were FORCED to queue with 8 people. You'd have to actually talk to people on your server and make friends if you actually wanted to do anything in the game. HOW TERRIBLE!

 

Solo-queuers are the problem with the game not the premades.

 

This is laughable. Many of us simply want to kick back & relax after a long days work. Many of us already have a variety of real life friends who we do real life things with. I shouldn't have to befriend every tom, dick, and virtual harry just to enjoy some pvp action. Many of us are burned out of working while we play a game. I want to swing a light saber at someone, not hold a voice op group meeting as to how to go about building Noah's Ark. Voice ops are a great tool but to require them in order to have fun seems a bit of overkill.

 

Your answer is just another cookie cutter response to an age old problem. The truth is that premades & pugs are two different play styles. There should be two different queuing styles so each can play against their own. We're just tired of you dipping your chocolate in our peanut butter all the time; capiche?

[mechintel]

This is laughable. Many of us simply want to kick back & relax after a long days work. Many of us already have a variety of real life friends who we do real life things with. I shouldn't have to befriend every tom, dick, and virtual harry just to enjoy some pvp action. Many of us are burned out of working while we play a game. I want to swing a light saber at someone, not hold a voice op group meeting as to how to go about building Noah's Ark. Voice ops are a great tool but to require them in order to have fun seems a bit of overkill.

 

Your answer is just another cookie cutter response to an age old problem. The truth is that premades & pugs are two different play styles. There should be two different queuing styles so each can play against their own. We're just tired of you dipping your chocolate in our peanut butter all the time; capiche?

 

Yeah I know how stressful it is to talk to people you met in a game over mumble. I mean earlier today someone said a joke while we were pvping and I was like "WHOA! Dude I worked all day, okay? I don't need this pressure to laugh at the things you say!"

[RenegadeSLX]

Yeah I know how stressful it is to talk to people you met in a game over mumble. I mean earlier today someone said a joke while we were pvping and I was like "WHOA! Dude I worked all day, okay? I don't need this pressure to laugh at the things you say!"

 

I lol'd

[GRINnBARRETT]

Yeah I know how stressful it is to talk to people you met in a game over mumble. I mean earlier today someone said a joke while we were pvping and I was like "WHOA! Dude I worked all day, okay? I don't need this pressure to laugh at the things you say!"

 

OK, I see you're incapable of seeing this from anyone else's pov. So I'll leave it at that. Closed minds are closed.

[Pcolapat]

The funny thing about this is that bioware said they were going to try and avoid this problem. They didn't want players getting rolled by premades all the time. So how did they mess up? Well they put in a system that rewards players for rerolling toons and at the same time add new tiers of PVP gear without setting up brackets first. It is like inviting the high school kids to an elementary school for a dodge ball game, somebody was bound to get hurt.

 

My first fifty the PVP was somewhat fun. My second fifty...it has been an experience, and not a pleasant one. If they find a way to bracket level fifty PVP it will be better. Cross server queues will also improve it. They can't leave it like this for much longer.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Pcolapat

[mechintel]

OK, I see you're incapable of seeing this from anyone else's pov. So I'll leave it at that. Closed minds are closed.

 

I totally see your point. I just don't agree with it. MMOs should not be soloable. Every aspect of the game should not only promote teamwork, but require it. I don't expect MMOs to change, I just wish they would.

[TalkingDinosaur]

learn to communicate with your teammates or make friends on your server that you can queu with

Wha? Wha? You mean... *GASP* Socialize!? What is this? The 90's? Ever since WoW who needs other players in a Massive Multiplayer Online Game?

[GRINnBARRETT]

I totally see your point. I just don't agree with it. MMOs should not be soloable. Every aspect of the game should not only promote teamwork, but require it. I don't expect MMOs to change, I just wish they would.

 

Well you said solo queuers are the problem with this game. How so? After all it's us getting rolled every time we queue up against you. You guys opined for 8 man queues; BW said they were coming. You get to roll over us now & later you get to queue as 8 man. What else do you want?