War Hero Gear vs Campaign Gear

[Aetou]

So you'd say it's on par with what, as far as PvE goes? Columi? As far as PvE stats go, it's basically Columi with extra endurance. Not as good for pure pve as Rakata even, so it's more than a full tier worse for PvE.

 

Why are you complaining again? (also, it's much harder/more time consuming to get War Hero gear than it is to get Columi)

 

Actually this isn't true. Augmented War Hero gear is on a par with Rakata gear for PVE. The increased level on the mods combined with the augment offsets the 'loss' due to Expertise. I checked Head, Boots and Chest against my PVP bits before tonight's HM Eternity Vault (quick gearing run through for guildmates) and the PVP bits were superior. For the record, we one-shot the whole thing in an hour and had no healing issues at all (I'm a Sawbones.)

 

Obviously non-augmented versions are inferior, but those extra 30 stat points make a big difference in closing the gap.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Aetou

[Doomsdaycomes]

Why is there such a huge stat allocation difference between two same item level gear sets? I added all the stats from just only the 5 main pieces: gloves, head, chest, boots, and pants from the marauder sets and there is a 279 point difference. If you included the stats from every single item slot, the difference between the stat points are immense. As a pvper with full War Hero gear, you can do both PvP and PvE comfortably considering that both gear sets will be hitting soft caps anyways making the gains from the PvE set even less noticeable. However if you were to wear campaign gear to warzones, you'll get absolutely wrecked due to how much a difference expertise makes. How is this even considered balance?

 

Marauder 5 piece set

 

War Hero Gear = 2106 Stat Points

Strength = 461 (-141)

Endurance = 537 (-108)

Expertise = 550 (+550)

Power = 61 (-2)

Critical Rating = 232 (0)

Accuracy = 106 (+49)

Surge = 159 (-69)

 

Campaign Gear = 1827 Stat Points

Strength = 602 (+141)

Endurance = 645 (+108)

Expertise = 0 (-550)

Power = 63 (+2)

Critical Rating = 232 (0)

Accuracy = 57 (-49)

Surge = 228 (+69)

 

Thank you for posting this.

 

As the OP notes, the two sets are suppose to be of equal tiers, yet the pvp set has a much larger stat pool. One of the battle cries of the PvP exclusive gear crowd has been "They take off primary stats to add expertise" yet they are taking off less stats point then they are adding in expertise points. Aka, imbalance.

 

As someone else pointed out, expertise is a stat that effects 3 major things at once. Point wise, it is a heavier stat. As for the person saying "Do you know how long it takes to get WH?" It takes a long time to gain Campaign gear as well, not to mention WH's grind was set long because it was meant to be gained through Rate warzones.

 

WH is viable in most PvE content. None of the PvE sets are viable in warzones. Imbalance, there is no other way to see it.

[exphryl]

The OP's point is that you can do PVE in War Hero, yes every operation except the newest hard mode, but you'd get totally blown out of the water taking PVE gear to PVP.

 

Guild has 16 Man HM Denova on farm.

 

New guy dings 50 and gets carried byguild.

 

Is full Campaign after a run.

 

Clearly fair compared to the grind that PvPers ALWAYS have to do right?

 

3 Hours of "work" trumping weeks of "work".

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[Groncho]

Thank you for posting this.

 

As the OP notes, the two sets are suppose to be of equal tiers, yet the pvp set has a much larger stat pool. One of the battle cries of the PvP exclusive gear crowd has been "They take off primary stats to add expertise" yet they are taking off less stats point then they are adding in expertise points. Aka, imbalance.

 

As someone else pointed out, expertise is a stat that effects 3 major things at once. Point wise, it is a heavier stat. As for the person saying "Do you know how long it takes to get WH?" It takes a long time to gain Campaign gear as well, not to mention WH's grind was set long because it was meant to be gained through Rate warzones.

 

WH is viable in most PvE content. None of the PvE sets are viable in warzones. Imbalance, there is no other way to see it.

 

i cant see any "imbalance"

if u do PvP u go for the PvP gear road

if u do PvE u go for the PVE gear road

If u do both u go for both roads.....and u change ur gear if needed

Wheres the imbalance? If u que up with Pve Gear then you are going...THE WRONG WAY

It would be great to have one set of top crafted gear with custom mods (crafted) for everyone, so this grindfest could stop (what mostly killed PvP) and we can have some fun

Theres no trading, theres no crafting, theres almost no change in PvP (4 Wz's over and over)....thats the "imbalance"

[Doomsdaycomes]

i cant see any "imbalance"

if u do PvP u go for the PvP gear road

if u do PvE u go for the PVE gear road

If u do both u go for both roads.....and u change ur gear if needed

Wheres the imbalance? If u que up with Pve Gear then you are going...THE WRONG WAY

It would be great to have one set of top crafted gear with custom mods (crafted) for everyone, so this grindfest could stop (what mostly killed PvP) and we can have some fun

Theres no trading, theres no crafting, theres almost no change in PvP (4 Wz's over and over)....thats the "imbalance"

 

Imbalance comes in that a pvp'er, in warhero, is not useless in pve content. A PvE'er, in campaign, is useless in pvp content. How... is this balanced?

 

As to your other point... Does Augmented Warhero ring a bell? You can craft Augmented Warhero pieces, then move the mods into them, and stack augments on top of it (making it even more useful in PvE content as well).

 

In fact (I could be wrong but...) I believe warhero gloves and boots are the only augmentable ones. If they're not, they are certianly the most common. I've been checking the GTN for weeks since 1.2 and never spotted a pair of PvE augmented gloves.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

[exphryl]

I've been checking the GTN for weeks since 1.2 and never spotted a pair of PvE augmented gloves.

 

Because nobody is RE'n drops from 1.2 Yet where you can learn the shell.

 

I've spent my Blackhole Comms on learning some Implants, but that's it.

 

You can't RE War Hero stuff and learn schematics, you just buy them outright.

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[Doomsdaycomes]

Because nobody is RE'n drops from 1.2 Yet where you can learn the shell.

 

I've spent my Blackhole Comms on learning some Implants, but that's it.

 

You can't RE War Hero stuff and learn schematics, you just buy them outright.

 

I shall immediately go smack my crafter friends for their failure! ^_^

 

Thank you for pointing this out. For those who will then jump on this to prove it is "fair," the imbalance then comes in that you must obtain the pve drops, then take the 20% chance to get these shells. A PvP'er can simply buy them, and this augmented gear is "locked" by a valor ranking.

[exphryl]

I shall immediately go smack my crafter friends for their failure! ^_^

 

Thank you for pointing this out. For those who will then jump on this to prove it is "fair," the imbalance then comes in that you must obtain the pve drops, then take the 20% chance to get these shells. A PvP'er can simply buy them, and this augmented gear is "locked" by a valor ranking.

 

Can't RE War-Hero Implants like I could Black Hole Implants though SO PvErs win on that account.

[arkzehhh]

Thank you for posting this.

 

As the OP notes, the two sets are suppose to be of equal tiers, yet the pvp set has a much larger stat pool. One of the battle cries of the PvP exclusive gear crowd has been "They take off primary stats to add expertise" yet they are taking off less stats point then they are adding in expertise points. Aka, imbalance.

 

As someone else pointed out, expertise is a stat that effects 3 major things at once. Point wise, it is a heavier stat. As for the person saying "Do you know how long it takes to get WH?" It takes a long time to gain Campaign gear as well, not to mention WH's grind was set long because it was meant to be gained through Rate warzones.

 

WH is viable in most PvE content. None of the PvE sets are viable in warzones. Imbalance, there is no other way to see it.

 

yadda yadda yadda.... remove the expertise from the equation ( since it's only relevant in pvp ) and the PVE gear then has a much higher stat pool, several 100 more infact...so yeah you have no argument, OP do everyone a favour and close the thread

.

[Groncho]

Imbalance comes in that a pvp'er, in warhero, is not useless in pve content. A PvE'er, in campaign, is useless in pvp content. How... is this balanced?

 

.

 

is WORKING AS INTENDED

if you like to do both things u have already wrote the answer

[ElintSlave]

I don't care about what gear can do what. I just want an equal amount of stat points in PvE gear that PvP gear gets.

[whatthefett]

You are right and I love it and hope it stays this way. I use my BM/WH mix to run FPs and Ops all the time. I am good with the mechanics of boss fights so seeing them first time even I usually get it right away, so any stat difference is negligible. I cant bare to farm multiple sets of gear and having pvp gear that works for both is perfect for me.

[iiell]

So expertise is worth less on the item stat budget even though it's the most overpowered stat in PvP? It does more in one stat then any of the other stats in PvE. It increases damage, mitigation and healing.

 

LOL! It is supposed to be a PVP ONLY stat...it doesn't help in PVE in any way what so ever. Stop wanting to PVP in PVE gear bro, your PVE gear tends to scale faster than PVP gear. That is why Expertise seems so "overpowered" to you. Because it is designed so that you cannot go into a Warzone wearing your PVE gear and own people who have dedicated all their time to PVP, all because you PVE and they do not.

Edited May 2, 2012 by iiell

[HooDooMagic]

I shall immediately go smack my crafter friends for their failure! ^_^

 

Thank you for pointing this out. For those who will then jump on this to prove it is "fair," the imbalance then comes in that you must obtain the pve drops, then take the 20% chance to get these shells. A PvP'er can simply buy them, and this augmented gear is "locked" by a valor ranking.

 

Even with the valor changes, grinding to rank 70 takes a good long time, even if you roll exclusively in a premade that has a respectable win rate and have people dump mvp votes on you it takes a really long time. And has already been pointed out, a guild can carry a fresh 50 through HM EV/KP and with a little luck have them in rakata in a fraction of the time it takes to grind out a full set of WH. You're whining over a non-issue.

[AKfourtyseven]

However if you were to wear campaign gear to warzones, you'll get absolutely wrecked due to how much a difference expertise makes. How is this even considered balance?

 

Getting full WH requires that you work together with others to defeat other humans who consistently progress as time moves on.

 

Getting full Campaign requires that you work together with other players to beat static, predictable AI.

 

You may have had a point if we could roll up to a vendor and purchase t1 & t2 PvE sets for credits. We cant.

 

The end.

[ElintSlave]

LOL! It is supposed to be a PVP ONLY stat...it doesn't help in PVE in any way what so ever. Stop wanting to PVP in PVE gear bro, your PVE gear tends to scale faster than PVP gear. That is why Expertise seems so "overpowered" to you. Because it is designed so that you cannot go into a Warzone wearing your PVE gear and own people who have dedicated all their time to PVP, all because you PVE and they do not.

 

I don't want to PvP in PvE gear. I want the extra stats that PvP gear gets made up in PvE stats for PvE. PvE gear as it is now is barely a DPS increase and only has endurance going for it which no one really cares about. What do you mean PvE scales faster than PvP? That doesn't make any sense. According to your logic then PvP gear shouldn't be able to go into operations and down stuff. The Expertise stat should do a -% damage, -% healing, and -% mitigation.

[ElintSlave]

Getting full WH requires that you work together with others to defeat other humans who consistently progress as time moves on.

 

Getting full Campaign requires that you work together with other players to beat static, predictable AI.

 

You may have had a point if we could roll up to a vendor and purchase t1 & t2 PvE sets for credits. We cant.

 

The end.

 

You can lose your way up to War Hero. You can't get the gear if you can't beat the boss. I don't even understand why being able to buy gear has anything to do with the argument.

[AKfourtyseven]

You can lose your way up to War Hero. You can't get the gear if you can't beat the boss. I don't even understand why being able to buy gear has anything to do with the argument.

 

It has everything to do with the argument because if you walk into a wz wearing Campaign gear you are an idiot. As a PvE player you earn credits in abundance, which means you can afford the 200k to counteract the very expertise disadvantage you were complaining about.

 

Also, saying you can lose your way to WH is the same as me saying you can AFK your way to full Campaign gear. You go try it yourself, grind from nothing to full WH gear by not winning very often and see how long that takes you. Its infinitely easier for a guild to bring a new person into a raid and gift them 2-3 items of Rakata in a single sweep than to carry a player to 2-3 items of BM in the same time.

 

Edit: Also, PvE gear "only" has end that nobody cares about? You must just be trolling. Yeah, i dont need or want hat extra 2k HP on my tank or those extra stats to boost my bonus damage on my DPS characters. Naaaaa...

Edited May 2, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[HooDooMagic]

I don't want to PvP in PvE gear. I want the extra stats that PvP gear gets made up in PvE stats for PvE. PvE gear as it is now is barely a DPS increase and only has endurance going for it which no one really cares about. What do you mean PvE scales faster than PvP? That doesn't make any sense. According to your logic then PvP gear shouldn't be able to go into operations and down stuff. The Expertise stat should do a -% damage, -% healing, and -% mitigation.

 

You have no idea how stats work in this game do you?

 

What makes PvE gear better than PvP gear (for PvE) is the difference in PRIMARY STATS. Forget the secondary stats, it isn't relevant, if you have 1.2 armor it's pretty close to optimized "out of the box", no matter what set you have.

 

Primary stat > power > crit > surge (250) > (accuracy/alacrity) > surge

 

PvP gear gives up a significant amount of primary stats in favor of expertise, which is a useless stat outside of PvP (gasp). If a person wants to perform optimally in PvE, they will use PvE gear, not the equivalent PvP tier.

[iiell]

I don't want to PvP in PvE gear. I want the extra stats that PvP gear gets made up in PvE stats for PvE. PvE gear as it is now is barely a DPS increase and only has endurance going for it which no one really cares about. What do you mean PvE scales faster than PvP? That doesn't make any sense. According to your logic then PvP gear shouldn't be able to go into operations and down stuff. The Expertise stat should do a -% damage, -% healing, and -% mitigation.

 

100+ to a primary stat is more than "barely" a DPS increase. PVE gear tends to scale faster, what I mean is PVE content tends to get pushed out faster and more commonly than PVP content.

[Zocat]

PvP gives the best PvP gear.

PvE gives the best PvE gear.

 

When I get my WH gear I lose my BM gear.

When I get my Campaign gear I can equip my companions with Rakata.

 

When I have my 1st Campaign set - it's probably easy (everything is on farm) to get my 2nd set (tank hybrids).

When I have my 1st WH set - I first have to farm the BM set again and then the complete WH gear. No shortcuts.

Same logic applies to new guys / alts etc.

 

If they give PvE gear the same statbonuses as PvP gear has expertise - it would trivialize the encounters. People already complain that the content is too easy.

Of course they could increase the encounter difficulty. But that would lock out PvPers completely from the PvE content. With rated warzones around the corner (lol^^) you can take your PvE geared group into PvP. After some initial losses (probably) you will play against other teams who dont have PvP gear. It automatically scales to your skill/gear level - PvE content doesnt do that.

Also consider content like the Black Hole zone. Or future flashpoints / events / "story". The target audience for that is definitely not "raider only". But with more powerful op-gear the raiders would have a very big advantage. To the point that BW couldnt even create something remotely difficult. So raiders would have nothing to do beside raids. And leave the game, because of lack of new content.

[ElintSlave]

It has everything to do with the argument because if you walk into a wz wearing Campaign gear you are an idiot. As a PvE player you earn credits in abundance, which means you can afford the 200k to counteract the very expertise disadvantage you were complaining about.

 

Also, saying you can lose your way to WH is the same as me saying you can AFK your way to full Campaign gear. You go try it yourself, grind from nothing to full WH gear by not winning very often and see how long that takes you. Its infinitely easier for a guild to bring a new person into a raid and gift them 2-3 items of Rakata in a single sweep than to carry a player to 2-3 items of BM in the same time.

 

Edit: Also, PvE gear "only" has end that nobody cares about? You must just be trolling. Yeah, i dont need or want hat extra 2k HP on my tank or those extra stats to boost my bonus damage on my DPS characters. Naaaaa...

 

That does not mean the same thing. You still need to be able to beat the boss to get the gear. Just because you're being carried doesn't mean you're losing the boss. In a PvP warzone matches there are plenty of people being carried by 4 man premades. If you're DPS you don't care about the endurance. 17k health is enough to survive any encounter out there if you're not dumb enough to take unnessary damage. You only need 22k health to tank any encounter out there. You could probably do it for even less, I dunno, I had 22k when I cleared Denova. You must not do any hardcore number crunching if you didn't realize how many of the new pieces aren't that much of an upgrade due to soft caps you get. There is no massive gap between PvP and PvE gear sets in terms of PvE. Do you realize that 100 strength is roughly 20 bonus damage? That isn't much of an DPS gap compared to 22% bonus damage you get from expertise. And again I only want the stats that we're not getting to be made up in PvE stats. Why do you even care if you guys don't even PvE? No where have I said I wanted to PvP in Campaign gear. Go find a quote where I said it.

[iiell]

That does not mean the same thing. You still need to be able to beat the boss to get the gear. Just because you're being carried doesn't mean you're losing the boss. In a PvP warzone matches there are plenty of people being carried by 4 man premades. If you're DPS you don't care about the endurance. 17k health is enough to survive any encounter out there if you're not dumb enough to take unnessary damage. You only need 22k health to tank any encounter out there. You could probably do it for even less, I dunno, I had 22k when I cleared Denova. You must not do any hardcore number crunching if you didn't realize how many of the new pieces aren't that much of an upgrade due to soft caps you get. There is no massive gap between PvP and PvE gear sets in terms of PvE. Do you realize that 100 strength is roughly 20 bonus damage? That isn't much of an DPS gap compared to 22% bonus damage you get from expertise. And again I only want the stats that we're not getting to be made up in PvE stats. Why do you even care if you guys don't even PvE? No where have I said I wanted to PvP in Campaign gear. Go find a quote where I said it.

 

I thought you didn't want to PVP in PVE gear? LOL!

 

You do realize that Expertise damage and damage reduction bonuses cancel each other out if two players have the same Expertise....

[AKfourtyseven]

Why do you even care if you guys don't even PvE? No where have I said I wanted to PvP in Campaign gear.

 

Why do you care if you dont PvP?

 

You are complaining about balance when you obviously dont understand what gear is balanced around. gear is balanced around the requirements to get the job done. Each sphere of gear is balanced for optimum performance within its own sphere, so attempting to compare them arbitrarily is futile and shows a complete ignorance for the actual working of the game.

 

Your PvE gear is the best gear for doing PvE, hands down. case closed. You are complaining because the gap between that performance is not great enough? Well i presented you with an alternative, you purchase the starter PvP. If you actually wanted to PvP you would do that, but clearly you dont, you just feel you are missing out on something which you then evidence you arent because you just claimed you dont even need the increase in stats - so what would they give you anyway?...

 

Stop crying.

[ElintSlave]

Why do you care if you dont PvP?

 

You are complaining about balance when you obviously dont understand what gear is balanced around. gear is balanced around the requirements to get the job done. Each sphere of gear is balanced for optimum performance within its own sphere, so attempting to compare them arbitrarily is futile and shows a complete ignorance for the actual working of the game.

 

Your PvE gear is the best gear for doing PvE, hands down. case closed. You are complaining because the gap between that performance is not great enough? Well i presented you with an alternative, you purchase the starter PvP. If you actually wanted to PvP you would do that, but clearly you dont, you just feel you are missing out on something which you then evidence you arent because you just claimed you dont even need the increase in stats - so what would they give you anyway?...

 

Stop crying.

 

I care because our gear doesn't have the same amount of stats on it. I'm complaining because its not equal. It's not the same. I'm already a battlemaster I have the gear already I don't care about that crappy recruit gear. You need 60 Valor to have the best PvE gear anyways.