Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Timesjoke]

 

It's quite straight forward, as people tend to take the path of least resistance those that were available to group, and are currently grouping, will if they aren't that bothered about picking their own groups move over to LFG which dilutes the pool that was available for those who do not want to do it.

 

Has never happened in WoW, the most popular MMO in history. You seem to be seeing ghosts where there are none my friend.

 

I have 7 lvl 85's and am leveling a shammy right now, I do both structured guild raids and lfg runs. I have never considered turning my back on regular guild runs just because there is a LFG tool.

 

 

"]Way to generalise. If the end game of an MMO is raiding how come 50%+ of accounts in WoW don't do it? Most people are still paying them $15 per month.

 

You are the one generalizing that a LFG tool will destroy everything, not me. You are the guy who claimed WoW was a raid only game, but now you claim more then 50% don;t raid, so which one is it?

 

I wonder where you get your number that over half of WoW accounts never do any raids though, you have some kind of hard fact list showing this (request link)? In my experience most people do some form of raids, this is easily discovered by looking at the gear people wear at max level. Dungeons and raids have gear rating numbers and if they are wearing the soulbound gear, obviously they did raid, lol.

 

 

Glad you enjoy it, I played with my friends on a Sunday but in the end that wasn't enough justification for the £9 per month after I'd leveled every class to 85 (bar a shammy) some multiple times. This game currently has space battles, which I hope will improve datacrons but could improve some of the crafting functions, increase the different type of dailies (using vehicles perhaps), swoop bike racing and a number of other things that can be used by groups/soloists. In the other game it was basically down to making gold and pretty similar dailies.

 

You still seem to be wanting a mostly solo game, not a MMO. The point of a MMO is to eventually be doing things large groups do, not 1 person, otherwise you may as well erase the "MM".

 

I agree this game has great potential plus I love the storylines.

 

Guess what, the raiding is part of the storyline in case you missed that part, kind of sad that part of the story is out of reach for over 80% of the paying population.

 

 

 

In your opinion! See responses above.

 

That part was not opinion, it was game mechanic fact. The better gear has higher stats for example, gear you can only get through raids. All the other aspects of the game are meant to be supportive elements for that endgame content. As I said above, the story continues "past" the single player stuff.

 

What are you wanting to say? That we should all read a book and stop reading before we read the last chapter? The desire to read that last chapter is bad?

 

In your opinion, from my experience of running 'dungeons' the groups became progressively worse over a period of 3-12 months following the implementation..

 

You are obviously just trolling with that comment.

 

Go look on wowprogress and see the fact that there are more guilds now than ever, more people experiencing endgame content now than ever, more success per account than ever, and yes, Blizz is making a lot of money with increasing memberships. All of this shows that their LFG tools are a resounding success and has made their community better and allowed more players to learn to be better players.

 

 

Opinions are opinions

Would that not include your opinions?

 

 

At least I offer hard facts you can check yourself (go look at wowprogress to see all the many successful guilds out there) and all you have is this feeling you want to make everyone else stop wanting to raid.

[DarthTHC]

All I have to say is this. Who do you think Bioware will cater to? The people already playing the game and loving it? Or the people who just complain about wanting something simply because their last MMO had it? Seeing as Galaxies was destroyed because of the latter, I assume they are going to go with the former.

 

Lots of leaps in this post.

 

BioWare, if they're smart businesspeople, will put features into the game that will get them more subscriptions. This means a balancing act of keeping current players happy while attracting new players. It probably also means re-attracting people who have cancelled their subs and if people answered their cancel survey honestly BioWare knows what to do to get them back.

 

SWG was destroyed because SOE implemented features that a whole lot of players hated. I don't know if SOE did that in response to a few whiners, because some developer lead had an ego complex, or for any of a brazillion other reasons.

 

But I don't think for a second BioWare would completely re-vamp the game just because a few whiners whine. They seem to be very cautious and methodical and (correctly) pay more attention to empirical data than the vocal minority of players who troll the forums.

Edited May 3, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Skirata_Kal]

All I have to say is this. Who do you think Bioware will cater to? The people already playing the game and loving it? Or the people who just complain about wanting something simply because their last MMO had it? Seeing as Galaxies was destroyed because of the latter, I assume they are going to go with the former.

 

They'll cater to whatever brings in more subs and therefore more money. Obviously, many of us are going to disagree on what that entails. Many of us actually like the game and are enjoying it, but there are things that would make the experience better. Discussing those things is one of the purposes of these forums. Apparently, you're only interested in people praising the game and falling to their knees and worshiping James and Daniel...see how generalization can work?

[DarthTHC]

Sure if it is implemented with....

 

1. Ability to /friend characters (not accounts) regardless of server, /whisper them (regardless of server) on those characters, and /invite them to groups prior to queueing for XLFG.

 

2. Includes an ignore-like "blacklist" that will hold an unlimited number of people and only blocks grouping with them when using the xlfg tool (I might want to blacklist someone mid-run but not ignore them because the latter would impede group communications).

 

3. Only pools servers into LFG queues based on their type (RP, PvE, RP-PVP, PVP) and doesn't ask people to group with people who don't share the most broad of gaming preferences at a minimum. After all, why have server types if they aren't going to matter?

 

4. Includes a limited number of free character transfers to facilitate joining the guild of friends from another server you happened to meet via cross-server grouping?

 

5. Rewards you for pre-forming your own groups rather than taking randoms.

 

Call for these features to be added and I'll support you. Ask for a mindless, faceless, friendless cross-server group that typified my experiences with them in WoW and Rift.

 

Like all of these but could do without #3. I don't much care what type of server players I group with come from, as long as they have the ability to get the content done. It's a bonus if they share additional similar interests beyond wanting to do a flashpoint, but it's not necessary 100% of the time.

[Skidrowbro]

Has never happened in WoW, the most popular MMO in history. You seem to be seeing ghosts where there are none my friend.

 

By your opinion

 

 

Go look on wowprogress and see the fact that there are more guilds now than ever, more people experiencing endgame content now than ever, more success per account than ever, and yes, Blizz is making a lot of money with increasing memberships. All of this shows that their LFG tools are a resounding success and has made their community better and allowed more players to learn to be better players..

 

Congratz on completing nerfed to the ground raids.

 

FYI, this is not WoW

Edited May 3, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[DarthTHC]

FYI, this is not WoW

 

It sure isn't. WoW didn't start losing subs until they crested 12,000,000, had been in production about 7 years, and announced an add-on release clearly aimed at a young audience (Kung-Fu Panda + Pokemon FTW).

 

SWTOR started losing subs a few short months into its life after a peak of 1,700,000 players.

 

This game could stand to be a whole lot more like WoW.

[Kemosobe]

They'll cater to whatever brings in more subs and therefore more money. Obviously, many of us are going to disagree on what that entails. Many of us actually like the game and are enjoying it, but there are things that would make the experience better. Discussing those things is one of the purposes of these forums. Apparently, you're only interested in people praising the game and falling to their knees and worshiping James and Daniel...see how generalization can work?

 

No, I am just someone trying to keep this game SW:TOR and not turning into yet another worn out complete copy of WoW. Simply because something being implemented will make the game easier for you does not at all mean it is a good idea to do it. I have seen much more people, both in game and on the forums, who are against a LFG tool than those for it because we all know how horrible it made WoW and we would all unsub if they put one in. You are complaining now that the game needs an LFG tool or will fade and die out, it will die out even faster if they implement one.

 

The game does need server merges. I said that in another forum thread about LFG tools. But it does not at all need an easy button to form parties simply because people are lazy. What people really need to start doing is learning how to use the current LFG tool in the game right now. Either put yourself in the state and wait, or look for others yourself. If everyone on a server was actually using this when they wanted to do something, no one would be complaining about needing an easy button party former.

[Timesjoke]

Nonsense. Nothing is flushed down the toilet. Within two months you will be able to move your precious time/money investment to more populated servers, and can do so again later if that server pop falls off.

 

Two months? Really? The only official statement was a vague 'early summer' reference and being as everything else has taken longer than promised and there is a lot of decisions and coding to do before we actually get there we can't say when this option will be available.

 

In the same vein, just because they offer free moves now, that is no gurantee they will offer then for free again but you miss the most important part of the issue.

 

The inability to play the game as a MMO while we wait now and should our new server decline there is the inability to play the game as a MMO then as well. The real point is where is the "MM" in our MMO?

 

 

Chill, relax, do something in game (maybe roll to test some other servers) or unsub for two months. According to your tears, it's not like you have anything to do where you are now.

 

You seem to be the guy getting all upset that paying customers are showing concern over real issues we are having with our game. If you believe everything is awsome and great why are you here trying to bother us? We are here because we can't find anyone to get groups together with, I believe even guys like you should be able to understand why not having enough players on a server to form a group would be a little difficult to accept to those of us who are paying to play a MMO.

 

The unsub option is what many people have already done, this is why our servers have gone from active to empty. How many people have to vote with their feet before the point is made?

[Katahn]

Like all of these but could do without #3. I don't much care what type of server players I group with come from, as long as they have the ability to get the content done. It's a bonus if they share additional similar interests beyond wanting to do a flashpoint, but it's not necessary 100% of the time.

 

But that #3 is part of building and preserving communities across the servers. By limiting the pool of cross-server people to the same broad server type you increase the chances of finding the kinds of friends in a cross-server group you would want in your guild or to guild with. Having that serves *exactly* the same function as havnig the server-types to begin with and shouldn't be eliminated.

 

The big objection to XLFG for folks like me is "it can damage our ability to build and sustain our local communities" (again, "community" here refers to your extended circle of in-game friends, associates, and guild-mates). My suggestions, point-by-point, address that problem. Seeing as how BW seems to feel the same way as we anti-XLFG folks do about community it would probably behoove the pro-XLFG crowd to pounce on these suggestions as a means of getting what they want.

 

Heck, if it turns out the server-type-limited-queues are overly restrictive and don't work then it becomes a lot easier to argue against removing them.

[Skirata_Kal]

By your opinion

 

And yours isn't just as much opinion? lol

 

Congratz on completing nerfed to the ground raids.

 

Again, your opinion. The top guilds were interviewed as being happy with the difficulty in Wrath and most of the "Wrath is too easy" QQers had few if any heroic mode achievements on their armory. My guild downed T4, T5 and much of T6 during BC before the big boss nerf that many QQ'd about...and we were satisfied with Wrath. And with few exceptions, we enjoyed the xrealm LFD tool which gave us an even bigger pool of people to choose from for raids. In fact, we had many different groups running which allowed more people to try their hand at raid leading. Cata killed our guild (for reasons other than the difficulty)

 

FYI, this is not WoW

 

And many of us are very grateful for that. WoW is the king of MMO's though and there are some individual things that they did right.

[DarthTHC]

But that #3 is part of building and preserving communities across the servers. By limiting the pool of cross-server people to the same broad server type you increase the chances of finding the kinds of friends in a cross-server group you would want in your guild or to guild with. Having that serves *exactly* the same function as havnig the server-types to begin with and shouldn't be eliminated.

 

The big objection to XLFG for folks like me is "it can damage our ability to build and sustain our local communities" (again, "community" here refers to your extended circle of in-game friends, associates, and guild-mates). My suggestions, point-by-point, address that problem. Seeing as how BW seems to feel the same way as we anti-XLFG folks do about community it would probably behoove the pro-XLFG crowd to pounce on these suggestions as a means of getting what they want.

 

Heck, if it turns out the server-type-limited-queues are overly restrictive and don't work then it becomes a lot easier to argue against removing them.

 

I understand what you're saying in the first paragraph of your post, but I'd like you to consider an alternative.

 

If the search isn't limited by server and it has all the other features you suggest, why can't a RP player and a PvP player who meet randomly via X-LFG and find they're compatible friend each other and continue to run X-LFG content together? At some point, the RP player might want to try PvP or the PvP player might get bored or frustrated of it and want to "settle down" to RP and then the server move and guilding up could happen. (BTW, in my former RP guild in WoW, we had a lot of former PvP denizens and they were awesome so it does happen.)

 

Bigger pool = more potential to meet cool people, right?

Edited May 3, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Timesjoke]

Either put yourself in the state and wait, or look for others yourself. If everyone on a server was actually using this when they wanted to do something, no one would be complaining about needing an easy button party former.

 

Tried this for almost 3 hours, no group, there goes that theory.

 

 

This is not about being lazy, all you elitists think that if you let casual players get included to groups you will lose your status as "special" or something. Even BW had admitted that many servers are too low for groups, the problem is even with mergers or transfers you will still have a narrow window of activity for about 2 to 4 hours on each server because BW will not have balanced playtimes for accounts due to letting people randomly swap servers and for anyone who does not play during those narrow 2 to 4 hours, groups will still be extremly difficult to find.

[Andryah]

You seem to be the guy getting all upset that paying customers are showing concern over real issues we are having with our game. If you believe everything is awsome and great why are you here trying to bother us? We are here because we can't find anyone to get groups together with, I believe even guys like you should be able to understand why not having enough players on a server to form a group would be a little difficult to accept to those of us who are paying to play a MMO.

 

I'm not upset, and I am not the one cryng about it. You are. Stop projecting.

 

Two months puts us well into "early summer". Please consult your calendar for more details.

 

The unsub option is what many people have already done, this is why our servers have gone from active to empty. How many people have to vote with their feet before the point is made?

 

About 15% of servers are actully "empty". Another 15% are LIGHT and not optimal at all. The remaing 70% are running STANDARD or higher during prime play time. The ability to transfer off of empty servers IS needed. But your allegation that it is most servers is incorrect exaggeration.

 

Your server is empty. I get that. Sucks. It is what it is at this point. You will get server transfer WAAAAAAY before the game sees a cross server LFG for PvE. Stop whining and crying. Either find something to do until server transfers are live, OR unsub until they are. Rocket science it is NOT.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Andryah

[Skirata_Kal]

No, I am just someone trying to keep this game SW:TOR and not turning into yet another worn out complete copy of WoW. Simply because something being implemented will make the game easier for you does not at all mean it is a good idea to do it. I have seen much more people, both in game and on the forums, who are against a LFG tool than those for it because we all know how horrible it made WoW and we would all unsub if they put one in. You are complaining now that the game needs an LFG tool or will fade and die out, it will die out even faster if they implement one.

 

The game does need server merges. I said that in another forum thread about LFG tools. But it does not at all need an easy button to form parties simply because people are lazy. What people really need to start doing is learning how to use the current LFG tool in the game right now. Either put yourself in the state and wait, or look for others yourself. If everyone on a server was actually using this when they wanted to do something, no one would be complaining about needing an easy button party former.

 

I don't want a copy of WoW either. I quit that game for a reason. But as I said before there are some things they got right. You speak of your anecdotal experience. I speak of mine. I know many more people, in game and IRL who want the xrealm LFD because of how it improved our experience in WoW (we had mostly good groups with a few bad ones). You call us lazy? lol. We played WoW since vanilla, many of us have played many other MMO's like UO and EQ to name a couple. We know what MMO's were like before the LFD tool. Taking advantage of a convenient tool that all modern MMO's should have is not laziness...anymore than NOT wanting it simply makes you an elitist d-bag (there's those generalizations again).

[Skidrowbro]

Tried this for almost 3 hours, no group, there goes that theory.

 

 

This is not about being lazy, all you elitists think that if you let casual players get included to groups you will lose your status as "special" or something. Even BW had admitted that many servers are too low for groups, the problem is even with mergers or transfers you will still have a narrow window of activity for about 2 to 4 hours on each server because BW will not have balanced playtimes for accounts due to letting people randomly swap servers and for anyone who does not play during those narrow 2 to 4 hours, groups will still be extremly difficult to find.

 

Lol, and you wonder why nobody wants to group with you?

[Kemosobe]

The top guilds were interviewed as being happy with the difficulty in Wrath...

 

And many of those "top guilds" were not even playing WoW in vanilla or hardly in BC. If you are talking about having a community drop off, WoW actually had a drop-off of players in late BC, early wrath because the people from vanilla saw that Blizzard was doing nothing but destroying the game that they knew and loved. Yes, it was not very significant and continued growing, but the majority of people currently playing it do not care about the world and lore that is the world of Warcraft. They just play it because there friends play it. I had a friend once that equated WoW to bro-gaming, and he is right.

[Skirata_Kal]

I'm not upset, and I am not the one cryng about it. You are. Stop projecting.

 

Two months puts us well into "early summer". Please consult your calendar for more details.

 

 

 

About 15% of servers are actully "empty". Another 15% are LIGHT and not optimal at all. The remaing 70% are running STANDARD or higher during prime play time. The ability to transfer off of empty servers IS needed. But your allegation that it is most servers is incorrect exaggeration.

 

Your server is empty. I get that. Sucks. Is what it is at this point. You will get server transfer WAAAAAAY before the game sees a cross server LFG for PvE. Stop whining and crying. Either find something to do until server transfers are live, OR unsub until they are. Rocket science it is NOT.

 

My Republic server is consistently rated as "Standard" yet never has more than 40 people in fleet during peak. I also have some abandoned imp toons on that same server that I check once in a while and the Imps aren't much better. And no, there aren't droves hiding on the other planets. My Imp server usually has 150-180 on fleet during peak, Republic on that server is non-existent and it too is labeled consistently as standard. In regards to your use of the word Standard, I hope you'll forgive me for quoting a line from one of my favorite movies:

 

"You keep using that word! I do not think it means what you think it means!" (been ages so I may not have got it exact)

[DarthTHC]

Anecdotal evidence...

 

Last night I wanted to run a few flashpoints on my mid-30's Sniper on a Standard server. I set myself up on Fleet and set my laptop up to play Poker. I started this at about 6:30pm server time. There were around 130ish people on fleet throughout the evening.

 

In between playing hands of Poker on my laptop, I watched chat and sent the occasional LFG message into it.

 

By the time 11:00 had rolled around, I had run 2 flashpoints. Both groups were pretty good.

 

So that 4.5 hours of ingame time, broken down as less than 2 hours in flashpoints and more than 2.5 hours standing around bored as heck (if I wasn't playing Poker). Or you could think of it as an average of 1.25 hours of waiting per flashpoint.

 

It's not going to improve significantly with a single-server LFG tool. The people who want to group understand that the way to get one is to spam fleet, which is the tool I used. Single-server LFG will produce waits roughly equivalent to what we have now, though maybe with less boredom factor because we won't be limited to standing on Fleet.

 

I don't know about a lot of players, but personally I'd prefer to do something more interesting with those 1.25 hours of wait per flashpoint... like maybe run another flashpoint.

 

That's why I want X-LFG.

[Kemosobe]

Taking advantage of a convenient tool that all modern MMO's should have is not laziness...anymore than NOT wanting it simply makes you an elitist d-bag (there's those generalizations again).

 

The only reason you think they need them is because YOU want them. Ever heard the old story about comparing "needs" and "wants"? Because you are trying to claim that something you WANT is something that you NEED. When in fact it is not needed in the slightest for the game to function (otherwise the game would have died during beta and early access) If you want to play a game that has an LFG tool, go back to WoW or find another MMO that has it. Having an LFG tool is not something standard in MMOs. You just want it to be.

[Timesjoke]

By your opinion

Your claim a LFG tool will completely destroy this game is the opinion, I stated facts that the LFG tools never hurt WoW. All you have to do is look at WoW and the server reports to see the truth of that.

 

 

 

 

 

Congratz on completing nerfed to the ground raids.

 

FYI, this is not WoW

 

lol, My guild completed 7/8 before everyone had the raidfinder gear, we are doing hard modes right now.

 

WoW has been using hardmodes for a very long time, both before and after their LFG tools. It allows a balance between offering casuals a chance to see content and the challenge the more serious raiders desire. From your comment I can tell you have never been a serious raider or you would not have made such a big mistake like that.

[Skirata_Kal]

And many of those "top guilds" were not even playing WoW in vanilla or hardly in BC. If you are talking about having a community drop off, WoW actually had a drop-off of players in late BC, early wrath because the people from vanilla saw that Blizzard was doing nothing but destroying the game that they knew and loved. Yes, it was not very significant and continued growing, but the majority of people currently playing it do not care about the world and lore that is the world of Warcraft. They just play it because there friends play it. I had a friend once that equated WoW to bro-gaming, and he is right.

 

These top guilds I speak of are practically professionals who get world and server firsts. In other words, they're at a skill level that the QQers will never reach. And nice generalization of 10 million people lol (which again I'm not part of anymore)

[Skidrowbro]

That's why I want .

 

And that is why all you complainers have lost all credibility

[DarthTHC]

And that is why all you complainers have lost all credibility

 

Troll still trollin' I see.

[Kemosobe]

It's not going to improve significantly with a single-server LFG tool. The people who want to group understand that the way to get one is to spam fleet, which is the tool I used. Single-server LFG will produce waits roughly equivalent to what we have now, though maybe with less boredom factor because we won't be limited to standing on Fleet.

 

Again, people just need to learn to start using the LFG feature that is already in the game. Guess what, you can put yourself in LFG status and still run around doing things without sitting in fleet spamming. Main problem is people do not use it which is why sitting in fleet spamming is the main way to get groups. If the game automatically put you into the LFG status and then brought up the /who window with LFG already searched whenever you mentioned a flashpoint for around a month, people would then understand that the game already has one built in and maybe people will actually start using it.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Kemosobe

[Kemosobe]

These top guilds I speak of are practically professionals who get world and server firsts. In other words, they're at a skill level that the QQers will never reach. And nice generalization of 10 million people lol (which again I'm not part of anymore)

 

So they are professionals at rolling their faces on their keyboards?