Pyrotech fire damage OP!

[DweezillKagemand]

Pyros are a melee class, so we don't get the benefit of being ranged and having our max DPS rotation. As melee classes go, pyros are easily the squishiest. We do get the added benefit of being able to half dps at range, so I guess that's something. We over heat really fast and do pretty low dps, however, if we do that.

 

Try playing an Operative.

Edited May 2, 2012 by DweezillKagemand

[KhalDrogoe]

About time Pyros made it in the discussion for nerfs. Maras/Sents were getting too much attention.

 

Powertech Pyros. You don't see Mercs being able to pump out that much damage without channeling.

[Scoobings]

Try playing an Operative.

 

That's true, forgot about that. We do get heavy armor, but we don't get shields or cleanses.

 

I think the thing that pushes ops over in terms of survivability is you have stealth. I'd still give the edge in terms of survivability to OPs but to be totally fair, I've never played one so I could be way off base.

[DimeStax]

Please tell me this is a troll.... I dont play my merc anymorr and never ever will I go pyro as merc.... I play my pyro pt and consistantly get 4-600k every match. Dont believe me hop over to my server and ask around there are only 2 good PTs on the server shouldnt be hard to find. But lets put this in perspective for you guys. Fully CD popped I run in pop incendiary missile on someone and then thermal detonator before they know I am there becaude they have no initial damage, then I light them up with a rail shot for 4.5k min on full BM targets then thermal detonator explodes for about 4k meanwhile my incendiary missile has ticked 3 times at 1.2k each (3.6k) then I flame burst for 1600 which ads another dot that ticks for about 1k and the flame burst procs another rail shot for 4.5k

 

TLDR the opening burst befor you see us (25m range) is 12k min then by the time you see us we are in our 4-10 flamr burst range and its another 6-8k before you have time to react. Realistically what you are seeing is all of this happeming within 3gcds but it is actually longer.

 

PTs are OP yes, bit so is virtually every class in the game when the time to kill a player is less than five seconds. It is not fun in any way....

 

This guy knows what he's talking about. More Pyro PT's who actually know what they're doing please post and not these gimped Pyro PT's who don't know how to use utilize their abilities.

[exphryl]

This guy knows what he's talking about. More Pyro PT's who actually know what they're doing please post and not these gimped Pyro PT's who don't know how to use utilize their abilities.

 

He must have trained Incendiary Missle a few ranks higher then me (Maybe he is a few expansions past this one that nobody else has) to get 1.2K hits on the ticks of it...

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[DimeStax]

He must have trained Incendiary Missle a few ranks higher then me (Maybe he is a few expansions past this one that nobody else has) to get 1.2K hits on the ticks of it...

 

Maybe he was fully CD popped like he said in his post...

[exphryl]

Maybe he was fully CD popped like he said in his post...

 

Still won't crit for that much. CGC Will after 30%, but not IM. (the dot portion at least)

[DimeStax]

Still won't crit for that much. CGC Will after 30%, but not IM. (the dot portion at least)

 

He has to be wrong about that dot tick. I play against some pretty mean dudes but I've never seen a dot tick for 1.2k

Edited May 2, 2012 by DimeStax

[VoidJustice]

I refuse to call for any nerfs... but if I did... BH would make the top o my list.

Mobility +5 to 8k instant damage abilities... umn... yea... I don't really understand how

that works but... that's alot more than most classes can do.

 

Can Troopers do this?

 

Once again... Im not sure what's putting up the dps that is removing 16k hp in 1 or 2

GCD's but I always seem to be electrodarted... and then dead. Happens alot. I don't know

what it is but, I'd like to stop getting stunkilled from full HP in seconds... would be nice.

I could be mistaken... but, instagibs while stunned shouldn't happen, and they do all

to often.

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Hethroin]

Maybe he was fully CD popped like he said in his post...

 

Popping adrenals does not triple the damage of incendiary, which has an initial hit of around 1k and tics for 300-400 (crit) after.

 

He may be confusing the initial hit for tics.

[Jestersdead]

Did some of you noticed the damage pyrotech can put on a single target or multiple targets only with that insane combustible gas? It put down a 16k HP player in less then 5 seconds only by that. They spin around and you get 30% HP short after. Is insane!

 

Flame sweep is most likely what he's talking about, and that skill is junk. Its high heat and has virtually no place in our rotation unless you're trying to keep a door from getting capped as a last ditch effort.

 

Powertechs are single target killers for the most part and do have good burst, but if you honestly think that combustible gas cylinder is what's killing you, then you need to analyze whats really going on.

[exphryl]

I've posted this before in threads just because people like to spout off random numbers, and I like giving accurate results here. I won't touch on heat at this point as this is a single 1v1 Encounter and NOT a group battle (Where Overheating is prevelant)

 

Now, these are with cooldowns (Explosive Fuel, Power Relic, Power Adrenal) and with 100% Crit RNG In your favor (Meaning it's very rare, but seemingly people like to think it's 100% of the time always for POwertechs)

 

GCD/Seconds | Ability Name

________________________

(0) | Incendiary Missle - 900 Crit

(1.5) | Thermal Detonator

(3.0) | Rail Shot - 5K Crit

(4.5) | Flame Burst + CGC Tick - 2K Crit + 900 Crit

(6.0) | PPA Rail Shot + CGC Tick Refresh - 5K Crit + 900 Crit

(6.5) | Thermal Detonator Explodes - 4.5K Crit

(7.5) | Flame Burst + CGC Tick - 2K Crit + 900 Crit

 

So in the span of 7.5 Seconds, in a stars align scenario, you did roughly 22K+ Damage to this opponent.

 

The scenario here would be prevalent against a moderately geared Sage, or Under geared Medium/Heavy armor user. There are obvious things that curtail this such as gearing of the opponent, cooldowns used, cleanses, etc.

 

This is NOT sustainable in a group battle. A big reason is due to the heat cost of IM, it's way to much of a resource hog to use on target switching so at times you'll Flame Burst to apply the dot and waste a PPA proc. (This goes off even if the proc is not on an ICD thus ruining a Rail Shot > Ability > Rail shot combo).

 

This is similar to an Operative using his cooldowns to destroy an opponent by "Stunlocking". The difference is we don't have stealth or a way to remove ourselves from combat if our burst rotation falters.

 

So in the end you have a high burst class, with low defensive cooldowns, and one of the worst conceived resource systems in an MMO..

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[Blloodbane]

I mentioned something about this before, but let me be clear, I dont not think its OP, needs to be nerfed nor QQ'ing about it...

 

However, I think someone told me it might have been flamethrower... I dont have a fraps or a SS just my vague memory of the combat which doesnt mean it was one ability, could have been a strong combo for all I know...

 

My experience was in a void star, we planted a bomb, the PT came in and there was 4 there at the door. One was pretty injured (I think about 40% maybe 50%) and two others were down about to 80% and I was about 95%ish in health. A lone PT comes in, all 4 swarm the PT and I see a flame sweep animation, I dont recall if something happend prior to that, and within 3 to 5 seconds of all this starting, one guy drops, they other players health drop by a noticable amount and my health drops 20 to 30%.

 

I know that human experience for live interaction and how the memory stores it can be varied and very distorted, hence why I tried to write that as about as honestly as I could. He was a good player too, I could tell that, he still died and we still blew the door and won voidstar.... I only mention this because someone was qq'ing about it being to OP, because its not, it hurts and its damaging but its not something that can be spammed as far as I seen yet.

 

I dont even have a PT so this is not me trying to save "my" class from being nerfed...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Blloodbane

[Scoobings]

You can nerf PT's damage, I get it. It's bursty.

 

The thing is, that PTs give up a lot for that burst and it's not a similar trade off for other classes. PTs have next to no CC, mobility, or Survivability Cooldowns. Pretty much the only thing they have going for them if they are specced for this kind of damage, is damage.

 

If you nerf that tree much more than by like 5 ish percent, you'll need to start compensating PTs in that tree with some utility, or survivability, or mobility to make up for the fact that their tree is a one trick pony that doesn't even excel at it's only "trick" anymore.

 

The damage is high, for sure, so I think in the interest of having longer fights burst damage classes like this one should probably be toned down. You definitely need to throw them a bone though, because they have very little to contribute outside of that damage that can't be done better by other classes (if they're pure pyro specced).

[VoidJustice]

You can nerf PT's damage, I get it. It's bursty.

 

The thing is, that PTs give up a lot for that burst and it's not a similar trade off for other classes. PTs have next to no CC, mobility, or Survivability Cooldowns. Pretty much the only thing they have going for them if they are specced for this kind of damage, is damage.

 

If you nerf that tree much more than by like 5 ish percent, you'll need to start compensating PTs in that tree with some utility, or survivability, or mobility to make up for the fact that their tree is a one trick pony that doesn't even excel at it's only "trick" anymore.

 

The damage is high, for sure, so I think in the interest of having longer fights burst damage classes like this one should probably be toned down. You definitely need to throw them a bone though, because they have very little to contribute outside of that damage that can't be done better by other classes (if they're pure pyro specced).

 

Well... once again, I won't call for a nerf but, getting killed in stunlock even once a match, isn't really a bunch of fun and if you get hit with that while stunned... you have no chance to survive that rotation. Does that spec get electo dart or whatever, cause that's what I get hit by before Im 16k to 0 before stun is over.

 

As a guardian I think they should get shields and heavy armor as compensation for losing that ridiculous dps cause as everyone knows Heavy armor and shields are sooo usefull in pvp.

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[exphryl]

Well... once again, I won't call for a nerf but, getting killed in stunlock even once a match, isn't really a bunch of fun and if you get hit with that while stunned... you have no chance to survive that rotation. Does that spec get electo dart or whatever, cause that's what I get hit by before Im 16k to 0 before stun is over.

 

As a guardian I think they should get shields and heavy armor as compensation for losing that ridiculous dps.

/wink

 

Electro Dart: Fires an electro dart that stuns the target for 4 seconds.

 

0 Seconds: Fire Dart

1.5 Seconds: Ability 1

3 Seconds: Ability 2

4 Seconds: Stun Ends

 

You die in two hits? You even wearing gear?

[Codename_Quincy]

no gear and debuffed prolly

[VoidJustice]

Electro Dart: Fires an electro dart that stuns the target for 4 seconds.

 

0 Seconds: Fire Dart

1.5 Seconds: Ability 1

3 Seconds: Ability 2

4 Seconds: Stun Ends

 

You die in two hits? You even wearing gear?

 

BM/WH full geared.

Not saying I died completely in the stun; sure did feel that way.

Also how sure are you that someone hasn't figured out a better rotation

than what you think is optimal.

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[exphryl]

BM/WH full geared.

Not saying I died completely in the stun; sure did feel that way.

 

The most damage that would be conceivable, in the event you do NOT have TD on you to begin with is roughly 8K Damage in the course of that stun. Give or take depending on gear.

 

seriously, why is this thread 15 pages long? are there that many bad and/or ignorant players in this game?

 

Yes

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[DimeStax]

You can nerf PT's damage, I get it. It's bursty.

 

The thing is, that PTs give up a lot for that burst and it's not a similar trade off for other classes. PTs have next to no CC, mobility, or Survivability Cooldowns. Pretty much the only thing they have going for them if they are specced for this kind of damage, is damage.

 

If you nerf that tree much more than by like 5 ish percent, you'll need to start compensating PTs in that tree with some utility, or survivability, or mobility to make up for the fact that their tree is a one trick pony that doesn't even excel at it's only "trick" anymore.

 

The damage is high, for sure, so I think in the interest of having longer fights burst damage classes like this one should probably be toned down. You definitely need to throw them a bone though, because they have very little to contribute outside of that damage that can't be done better by other classes (if they're pure pyro specced).

 

I think you can reduce their damage a bit and not touch anything else on the class. I'd say their defensive abilities are on par with that of a Jugg and Marauder (the other melee classes), the OP has a little bit more but the PT Pyro still wears heavy armor and doesn't have to use his defensive cooldowns during his offensive rotation like the OP does, meaning he can save them for when he really needs them as opposed to having to use them as an opener.

[Blloodbane]

BM/WH full geared.

Not saying I died completely in the stun; sure did feel that way.

Also how sure are you that someone hasn't figured out a better rotation

than what you think is optimal.

 

sure you were 1v1 and no snipers around or AoE's?

[VoidJustice]

The most damage that would be conceivable, in the event you do NOT have TD on you to begin with is roughly 8K Damage in the course of that stun. Give or take depending on gear.

 

Ok so 8k damage while stunned. I'll conceed the point.

Like that's balanced.

 

Of course I've seen BH's put out 8k in one shot also... so there ya go.

2 BH's 1 does that rotation

the other does the 1 8k shot thing... bamn 16k by 2 BH's in less than 5 seconds.

 

What other 2 AC's can do that?

Matter of fact Focus Guardians have taken a bunch of nerfs because 2 could do that pre surge nerf.

 

not saying it should be nerfed but... sure looks that way doesn't it.

 

btw this happens nightly on my server.

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[exphryl]

Ok so 8k damage while stunned. I'll conceed the point.

Like that's balanced.

Of course I've seen BH's put out 8k in one shot also... so there ya go.

2 BH's 1 does that rotation

the other does the 1 8k shot thing... bamn 16k by 2 BH's in less than 5 seconds.

 

BH's (mercenaries) can not do 8K since the fix last week (or was it the week before?)

 

PS: Guild Mara had a lucky string of procs and crits /buffs and did 15K Damage over the course of a Ravage, with a 7.5k+ Last hit. That's 3 Seconds...

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[VoidJustice]

sure you were 1v1 and no snipers around or AoE's?

 

no, I've stated several times I wasn't very sure of what happened, and then the BH's confirmed they can do 8k damage while your stunned for 4 seconds and I've seen BH's do that 8k damage 1 shot, so now Im almost 100% sure what's going on or what was... if something has truly been fixed.

 

still wouldn't call for nerfs but... man... whew...

 

meanwhile... the nerf guardian/sentinal train keeps on chugging.... lol

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[cashogy]

Just gonna ignore this dude. He obviously doesn't know his class.

 

I dont know my class? Youre kidding right? Lets break it down........

 

Thermal Detonator: 3.5-4k damage, if I use a WZ adrenal I can get up near 5k against low expertise and/or squishy targets.

Rail Shot: 2.5-3.5k, again close to 4k if I use a WZ adrenal. Rail Shot is weapon damage, so is incredibly finicky and barely breaks 1k on a non-crit

Incedniary Missile: a set-up dot, ticks for 18s and does minimal damage.

Combustible Gas Cylinder: 10% chance to proc on weapon damage, 6s duration, ~2k elemental damage. helpful for setting up the bigger combos to conserve heat.

Power Shot: 1.5-2.5k, again, white damage so not reliable, but can proc more Rail Shots

Unload: 2-4k, more white damage so need lots of crits to do anything worthwhile.

 

Defensive Cooldowns?

Energy Shield: 2min CD, 25% damage reduction. Pyrotech's can spec into having Energy Shield remove movement impairing effects (root and slow, not stun) but it provides no immunity to being re-slowed/rooted immediately after hitting it. This defensive cooldown is mediocre at best, and yet I see people comparing it to Marauders and Juggernauts defensive cooldowns? Come on now........

Kolto Overload: sort of a defensive cooldown, heals 15% health over 10s. Best used for healing up quickly when running into another fight, and not much of a defensive cooldown.

 

That's Merc. Powertech's do not have any other defensive cooldowns, their survive-ability comes from the Shield tree, which if theyre spec'd Pyrotech they probably dont have many points in.

 

Against a person not paying attention at all, I can do a maximum of 10-12k damage, but that takes 4 GCDs.

 

Stop crying overpowered because you got beat. Learn the weaknesses of the class you lost to, figure out how to exploit them, and then execute that plan. Its not rocket science.........

 

Oh and heavy armor does not increase your survive-ability. You get 4-5% extra damage mitigation from heavy armor over medium, thats it. So a 5,000 damage attack against someone wearing medium armor does ~4800 damage to someone wearing heavy armor. Not a big difference....

Edited May 2, 2012 by cashogy