mpcunlimited Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There has been a lot of buzz saying that since the nerf in 1.2 that merc healers are no longer an option. I'd have to say this is complete rubbish. First I'd like to say that I've healed EC normal several times and the only problems I've face is dealing with the tank boss due to bugs that make things invisible. This week my raid group with two merc healers was even able to one shot the first boss. Our raid group has almost consisted of bh healers and we have never had problems healing unless it was due to too many people getting hit by something they were not supposed to. For Lost Island I've had no trouble healing through hard mode. Healing overall for me has been little trouble, and I've even solo healed the fabricator droid and Karraga himself in hard mode since the patch went live. Now to explain how healing has changed in 1.2. My rotation has swapped from using rapid shots while using rapid and healing scan toward being more focused towards using kolto missile with these skills as backups heals using whichever one is more essential based on the amount of hp needs to be healed. For my rotation I'll use rapid shots till I get supercharged. Then I shoot kolto missile since it gives all group members the shield buff. I then go back to spamming rapid shots on group members and when they get down to 75% I'll use healing scan lower then that I'll use rapid scan. When I get everyone up close to topped I use koltomissle to get everyone back up. I then use rapid shots till supercharged and kolto missile with shield buff. Then rinse and repeat. Depending on boss fight I also use cure to remove rebuffs.l The nerds to me seem to not nerf healing ability but change rotation toward using kolto missile since before the patch I hardly used it since I could just spam other heals to solo target heal and had no problem since heT was no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadul Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I agree, the nerfs did not make us obsolete. It's a quality of life change for sure. The heat changes alone make the pre 1.2 playstyle impossible to continue. It just makes you more aware of heat management. Now obviously your playstyle is one way, not 'the' way. If it works for you then great. The content in EC right now allows for more periods of not much dmg going out to help with the heat management process where you can safely rapid shot without fear of a tank going down. I actually found this to be quite the opposite last tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpcunlimited Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 I agree, the nerfs did not make us obsolete. It's a quality of life change for sure. The heat changes alone make the pre 1.2 playstyle impossible to continue. It just makes you more aware of heat management. Now obviously your playstyle is one way, not 'the' way. If it works for you then great. The content in EC right now allows for more periods of not much dmg going out to help with the heat management process where you can safely rapid shot without fear of a tank going down. I actually found this to be quite the opposite last tier. We'll of course my way is not the only way to heal, but from what I've experienced past 1.2 kolto missle with it's shielding buff is very important in helping keeping the group alive while helping maintain heat at a level where you can recover throughout boss fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercogburn Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 For my rotation I'll use rapid shots till I get supercharged. Then I shoot kolto missile since it gives all group members the shield buff. I then go back to spamming rapid shots on group members and when they get down to 75% I'll use healing scan lower then that I'll use rapid scan. So Rapid Shots is now your primary heal that you do most of your healing with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpcunlimited Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 I would not say it is my primary heal but it is essential to spam it as often between bigger heals in order to get supercharged so that you can use kolto missle that will give the shield buff due to being supercharged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannar Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I have no experience with raids, but I do with PvP. And I have to tell you, it's extremely difficult. BG was all about survivability and spike healing pre-1.2. With the changes, I'm sure that a HUGE majority of the BG community will agree that BioWare has killed our healing in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberians Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Hi Guys, my BH merc on Dalborra just did 598,000 heals in Civil War. I have since 1.2 struggled to get decent heals in any WZ. The heals I got, is by far the best ever healing I have done in a WZ since this game launched. Frankly I was blown aways that I could even heal this much:) BH merc heals-Civil War anyways have a read of the screenie I took. Edited May 1, 2012 by Tiberians Typo's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxarale Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 So because you were against people that have no idea how to play (the top 3 healers on your team all died 1 time each) and you had no pressure put on you so you got to just sit back and heal (the BH healer that got pressure and died 4 times did 1/2 your healing) means BH healers are ok? Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.... I also love the PVE crowd that say BH are viable as they sit in full Rakata, in 16 mans with 3 sorc healers and 1 op healer and do HM Karraga's and EV... clearly out gearing the content and being carried by the healing of the others... Has anyone seen proof that you can take 2 BH healers in 8 man to HM Devona and clear it? I have seen tons of proof you can with 2 sorc or 2 Ops... Or a 16 man with 3 BH 1 sorc and 1 op? Lets try and keep it real fellas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotatorkuf Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 whats the operative/sorcerer equivalent to rapid shots? (free heal spam) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.... heh this made me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadul Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Has anyone seen proof that you can take 2 BH healers in 8 man to HM Devona and clear it? I have seen tons of proof you can with 2 sorc or 2 Ops... Or a 16 man with 3 BH 1 sorc and 1 op? Lets try and keep it real fellas... Why would you or anyone else need proof that a HM EC can be cleared by 2 BH healers? What does this prove? We have a niche, which makes us different. No guild in their right mind would choose to bring 2 BH healers to progression if they actually cared abuot progression. No reliable aoe heals comparatively speaking. However, take 1 BH healer, with any other healing class and all HM content is clearable. Just because 2 sorcs and 2 ops could do it doesnt mean we, by definition, HAVE to also be able to do it. Arguments like this scream "class homogenization plz". I say no, let us be different, have a niche to fill, and we are still able to be brought to any difficulty as long as the class is well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amien Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 whats the operative/sorcerer equivalent to rapid shots? (free heal spam) Ops get a channeled ability called diagnostic scan. I like rapid shots better since it's on the move, BUT crits from the free channeled skill give you 1 energy back Sorcs don't get a single free heal. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxarale Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) What does this prove? We have a niche, which makes us different Sorry, I re-speced to dps after my first raid post 1.2... what niche is it that we fill now? I know it used to be tank healer. As for the rest of it: For me, knowing that you can not heal an 8 man progression with 2 BH but can with 2 sorc or 2 ops speaks volumes to what they have done to a BH healer... If you fail to see the point being made that is your prerogative. If the other 2 class of healers can fill our supposed niche and theirs... what again is the point of a BH healer? When a different class can fill your niche better than you can AND fills its own separate niche... hmmmm I'm not sure but that sure seems like it might be a problem? Just because 2 sorcs and 2 ops could do it doesnt mean we, by definition, HAVE to also be able to do it. Arguments like this scream "class homogenization plz". I say no, let us be different, have a niche to fill, and we are still able to be brought to any difficulty as long as the class is well played. Of course there is the side that says... if your only option is 2 BH healers because your Sorc or OP had to work late = you do not raid tonight... But I digress, clearly its not an issue. Edited May 1, 2012 by Jaxarale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadul Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Sorry, I re-speced to dps after my first raid post 1.2... what niche is it that we fill now? I know it used to be tank healer. As for the rest of it: For me, knowing that you can not heal an 8 man progression with 2 BH but can with 2 sorc or 2 ops speaks volumes to what they have done to a BH healer... If you fail to see the point being made that is your prerogative. We fill the same niche, tank healer. I do it every week, and I am not even close to being top tier. Your point is obvious, you want us as BH to be able to do everything every other class can do. it's just not that way. Even pre 1.2 nerf, if any one brought 2 BH to a 8m NMM to progress I would say they were crazy and gimping themselves purposfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxarale Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Your point is obvious, you want us as BH to be able to do everything every other class can do. Actually, you have missed my point entirely... Every other class can do what we do,(tank heal) and do it better PLUS they can do what we can not... THAT is my point. it's just not that way. Even pre 1.2 nerf, if any one brought 2 BH to a 8m NMM to progress I would say they were crazy and gimping themselves purposfully. And you see no problem in this? The fact that you can have 2 of the same type healer of the other 2 classes and do progression but you cant with a BH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroecon Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) BH healing is still manageable. But simply put, it is not as good now as an Operative Healer. On my server, it was well known who was the top Sorc healer, top BH healer and top Ops healer. And in certain types of matches (0-0 score Voidstar for instance) you could easily predict what their heal output would be. All of them were over 800k with the Sorc possibly pushing 1 million. Now the Ops healer can still reach 800k, the Sorc is under that and the BH is somewhere in the 600's. You can claim that because the BH still can push out 650k heals that they are not broken. But after controlling for player skill, they are in fact the worst healing class. BW's ingame metrics system that naively doesn't take into account player skill is driving these changes. And frankly it may be too late to fix. On my server at least, the the aforementioned top Soc and BH healers have departed the ToR universe. Edited May 1, 2012 by Macroecon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadul Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Actually, you have missed my point entirely... The fact that you can have 2 of the same type healer of the other 2 classes and do progression but you cant with a BH? I think I hit your point quite well. You're still saying you have a problem with 2 BH healers not being able to do what 2 op or sorc healers can do...effectively saying I want 2 BH healers to be able to do what they can. If this doesn't sound like homogenization then I don't know what does. Now I might be arguing my side of the fence without stating the obvious which is; yes we were chopped at the knees when 1.2 landed and those less skilled BH healers might be taking off to greener pastures, but having us come to raids isn't a death sentence. Sure it might not be as efficient as another combination, but it can be done and it's not hard to do, just 'harder' than before. So yes I recognize all too well we aren't as easy to play anymore, but those who are freaking out and abandoning ship, those are likely the ones whos skill level can't handle the current play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vumurt Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In lieu of going on for pages with the same argument I believe they are not saying we should be the same as the other two healing classes but rather have the same effectiveness as the others. If 2 Ops or 2 Sorcs can effectively heal progression runs and 2 BH cannot, then simply put BH heals do not have equal effectiveness. Perhaps then what others are trying to argue is that we should not purely heal such is the case with Ops and Sorcs but rather fill a support or pseudo heals in addition to being a dps role. I personally don't have much to say as my BH healer is in the 30's, however, I'm trying to find some clarity to the debate I can learn as much as I can. Hope this helps move the topic forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxarale Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In lieu of going on for pages with the same argument I believe they are not saying we should be the same as the other two healing classes but rather have the same effectiveness as the others. If 2 Ops or 2 Sorcs can effectively heal progression runs and 2 BH cannot, then simply put BH heals do not have equal effectiveness. Yes this is exactly the point I am trying to get to! As for making it harder and those of medium skill not being able to play BH healer anymore... Its not the 1% of people that keep the servers open... its the 99% that pay the bills... If they think catering to the 1% by making BH so difficult to use at end game that very few can/want to do it... then they are cutting their own throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qendra Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yes this is exactly the point I am trying to get to! As for making it harder and those of medium skill not being able to play BH healer anymore... Its not the 1% of people that keep the servers open... its the 99% that pay the bills... If they think catering to the 1% by making BH so difficult to use at end game that very few can/want to do it... then they are cutting their own throats. I'm totally with jaxarale. We need improvements to be competitive with the other classes. We can also be diferent to them; in fact, we are diferents ><. Make our kolto shell usable in more than 1 target, for example; make our kolto misile inteligent healing... there are a lot of things that devs can do... but if we dont cry nobody is going to cry for us :S. I dont wanna be competitive: i wanna be as competitive as other classes that do the same job than me. Grettings and sorry for my bad english :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotRonin Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 BH healer's major advantage is the ability to do damage. Supercharged gas + powershot + relic/adrenal gives you a 13 second window of very good dps which cost zero resoources. You can also sneak in an unload and Death From Above most of the time. We are more than a pure healing class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzairzaidi Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 686k heals in 1.2. Just have to adjust your play-styles mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercogburn Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The only 2 circumstances under which people are posting high healing scores for warzones are going to be the following: 1) Extremely highly geared (this applies also to FPs and Ops, usually overgeared for the content they are attempting) and/or 2) The other team was dreadful and getting steamrolled, probably not even noticing the merc healer. In which case the merc's team won not because of greatness but because of the stupidity of their opponents. Anyone can score high healing points when the other team is dreadful and they can stand there spamming away in a nice easily controlled rotation. The aforementioned superhero then logs on to the forums and posts something wonderfully trollish in the style of L2P etc. Which leads nicely on to... 686k heals in 1.2. Just have to adjust your play-styles mates. Such trolling and at time of posting notably none of the toons in your sig are a merc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadul Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Isn't that the truth for everyone though? Even pre 1.2 if you faced a good, organized team BH healers aren't going to hit those kinds of numbers. So your argument about facing bad teams is not really proving anything. Whether it be pre 1.2 or 1.2 now if you face a bad team you can put up good numbers and if you face a skilled team you won't do so hot. That's kind of stating the obvious imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDaz Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Bottom line - its just not fun anymore. Yes, heals are still "manageable"; but gameplay just isn't fun. Heat is just too restrictive atm in PVE, and dont even get me started on PVP survivability ... Changes I'd like see : - Radip shots self targetable - Talent to dump 8 heat on heal crit (except heal from rapid shot) - make SCG worhwhile using again - give me a throughput benefit from using it - hell give me a reason to use it please - New core ability - Jet leap - 30 sec cd - jet assisted leap to the targetted spot within 30 yards - Gives us an escape and might make the unbearable huttball matches significantly more entertaining Anyway keep playing while your having fun guys, i'm onto other things now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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