Sorcerer feeling way gimp in pvp?

[Cyrasou]

completely agreed. But you forgot to mention Overload doesn't always work. is this intended or a bug?

 

Also it seems to be that the talent trees make no sense what so ever. You spec full heals you obviously wont be able to dps that much and your heals are easily interrupted so you really cant heal all that good.

 

Lighting spec is exact opposite your dps is easily interrupted and of course you wont be able to heal that good.

 

Madness is decent dps but hard to keep your force up it seems.

 

So the only viable solution ive found is a hybrid spec that's decent all around. So we are forced to hybrid?

 

I think a complete revamp of the skill tree is in order.

 

 

 

The sith non healing sorc is very broken in pvp.

 

The reasons are many:

 

1.) Too squishy.

2.) Less 1v1 DPS than most all other classes except tanks.

3.) Massive cool-downs.

4.) Low hit-points

5.) Game mechanics prevent fast casts

6.) No way to stay "ranged".

7.) All CC skills immediately fill resolve bar of opponent.

8.) All other classes have a get out of jail move...we get a crappy nearly useless sprint.

9.) Passive heals from damage far too low.

10.) No moving and shooting like ALL other ranged classes can do.

 

Now let me address all of these:

 

----------------

Too squishy:

----------------

 

Well we get that super awesome shield that blocks damage. Yes it sounds great until you throw it up and it takes damage, that knocks it down and you run away. Now you have 10 seconds of 100% no armor. ALL other classes don't have to deal with this. They can get wacked around and run off to heal or get healed and then right back into the fray. Not SS's...they are ready to be 3 shot and they are regularly.

 

 

----------------

poor 1v1 DPS

----------------

If the DPS opponent is in equivalent gear they will always win. ALWAYS. Not most of the time. Not almost always. ALWAYS. Why? Simple. Look at the logs. ALL other classes simply do more damage hit for hit. Look at the DPS after each battle and you'll see that sorcs are usually not at the top. Sometimes they are and those are rare as this means they were able to be not harassed and did AOE damage. When melee are in range its very lopsided. When melee are in range and you have no shield...its incredibly lopsided. Wham Wham dead.

 

 

----------------

Massive cooldowns

----------------

The skill benefit to the skill time for sorcerers are unjustified when compared to other classes. Simply compare escape skills combined with the ability for people to thwart that skill and then look at time to re-use. Ya sorcs got the short straw here.

 

 

----------------

Low hit-points

----------------

No armor and low hit points? Get the best gear you can get and you'll always be lower than most of the other classes. Period. If you have higher HP's then you have better gear. This combined with the resolve bar makes other classes use of that bar a regular thing and sorcs wishing they were still alive to use some of that resolve bar stuff we hear about and see others use.

 

---------------

Game mechanics prevent fast casts

---------------

The entire AOE targeting system built into the game is broken in the following ways:

 

A.) When you go to target the ground and click and it goes slightly farther out it loses the target and you have to start over.

B.) When you are casting lightning storm you must wait for it to completely finish before starting to target the next storm. If you start before the last one finishes then you get to restart over again.

 

Solution to A: When we click the left button have it cast at its last good position.

Solution to B: Simply allow the targeting to stay around when the previous spell finishes and allow the left click to start up the next spell

 

 

----------------

No way to stay ranged

----------------

I believe the DPS difference between melee and sorcs was meant to give melee a chance as the developers wrongly believed that they could be kited in some fashion and when they got to the sorc they would need that extra DPS to make up for all the damage they took trying to catch the sorc. Well that seems to be the fantasy they were believing in.

 

The reality is this:

 

1.) Your target jumps to you from your full cast range.

2.) The jump can not be deterred - even if they are snared.

3.) The jump can't be interrupted like your sprint can.

4.) You are pulled from your full cast range directly to an entire mob of people and ker-plop dead.

5.) Sneaky people watch you run off when your shield drops, and 2 shot you while you are stunned.

6.) If you manage to live through a stun the sequence goes like this:

6.A) you stun them.

6.B) They break it.

6.C)You stun them again and run for it.

6.D) If your sprint which is on a far too long of a cool-down is ready you may escape, but more likely you will be jumped upon, or shot from range, or a light saber will be thrown at you and plop dead.

7.) If you are snared...yup no way to move faster than the melee guy....except for that sprint ability.

8.) Your main attack skill is a channeled skill that requires you to stand in one place.

9.) Can't hide, can't jump, can't become immune to 99% of all damage, can't heal 30% instantly, can't CC an entire area around yourself except that crappy knock back. Knock back vs the grenade or the freeze everyone around you skills. Ya sorcs got the short straw here too.

10.) The lightning streams to the target and guess what...it announces to everyone...HERE I AM...so that targets buddies do 1-8 to you.

 

---------------------

All CC skills immediately fill resolve bar of opponent.

---------------------

 

Stuns once, stun twice, no more stun for you!

 

-----------------------

All other classes have a get out of jail move...we get a crappy nearly useless sprint.

-----------------------

We got nothing but a crappy sprint that makes us immune to nothing so ya any stun, snare, pull etc and its thwarted. Now compare that to vanishing in peoples faces, jumping to the next target, stun grenade, AOE stun.

 

-------------------

Passive heals from damage far too low.

--------------------

The healing feedback you get from the talent tree is really just about useless. Its pitiful. If you removed it tomorrow I'm not sure I would notice.

 

-------------------

No moving and shooting like ALL other ranged classes can do.

-------------------

They can we can't.

 

 

Solutions:

 

There are many things you could do. Here are some ideas.

 

Make all targets who are snared unable to jump.

Make the sprint remove CC and be immune to CC while sprinting

When shield is up be immune to non force ranged crowd control - or reduce effective time/range one can CC the sorc.

Allow sorcs to move 2% faster than everyone at all times.

 

These changes would go a long way of making the sorcerer a viable class.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Cyrasou

[MyNameWasChanged]

Really the big problem is that all classes are horribly broken. I mean its not even close.

This game is really destine for the dustbin of failed games because of it.

 

Just some really easy ones that tell you this.

 

Who thinks we are not stunned enough? I mean you get a stun break and then no immunity at all afterward?

Who thinks the resolve bar scales well?

Who thought marauders needed to be buffed?

Who thought that gear should be THE deciding factor?

 

Really they should just delete the pvp aspect of the game as there is no fixing it. Far too broken.

[Jundi]

Expertise should be even across the board for BM and WH gear.

 

CCs should be something people have to spec into and should be half-way to the top tier of any tree.

 

BM and WH gear should be re-tooled to resist CCs.

 

Sorcs are fine the way they are IMO. See to many threads asking for the God button. Before people complain they need to post their specs, gear, and valor.

[Wynn]

 

BM and WH gear should be re-tooled to resist CCs.

 

 

Healing would be a nightmare if there was a chance for CC to fail on top of resolve

[Cempa]

I dont even waste talent points on rupture slow (I assume thats what you are talking about). Every single marauder even with 0/0/0 spec has a skill called "Crippling Slash" which does medicore damage and slow the target by 50% speed for 12 seconds. Instant Cadt, No Cooldown.

 

But I play Annihilation spec. Carnage spec would be even more anti sorc (its actually completely overkill vs sorcs) because of multiple roots (Ravage 3 second roots + huge dmg, deadly saber = ranged 3 second roots + uncleansable 20% extra truama effect, force charge = 3 second root) + and deadly saber is a 10m ranged root in carnage spec. With predation at 80% movement speed for 10 seconds and and dont forget you still have your force camouflage 4s stealth with 30% more speed + saber ward 50% dodge and deflection and 25% damage reduction to all tech and force attacks for 12 seconds, + cloak of pain which is basically a 30 second 20% damage reduction to all damage while resulting damage back at the attacker which talented also grants rage everytime you take damage + obfuscate which basically makes all weapon attacks to miss 90% of the time (e.g RAILSHOT, MM Snipers ect) + 6 charges of auto crit auto raid heal and self heal + undying rage which is a 99% damage reduction to all damage in the entire game of SWTOR.

 

I really think BW did what they did because of the sheer amount of fail Marauders in the game. Enter any WZ, ANY WZ, and notice the number of horrible players. Marauders who pop all defensive CD's 30m away THEN Force Charge only to land in a 8 sec CC lol!

 

You may not spec into the 50% Snare on Rupture but my issue as a Sorcerer is the ones who do! I can cleanse your 12 sec Snare and run away, I CAN NOT cleanse the Rupture Snare which has a 33%/66% chance of having the Rupture CD reset when a Marauder attacks me.

[Kyhren]

Personally I’d like to see Lightning strike being our castable “on the move” spell – maybe a 10% boost to its damage or leave the damage as it is, but being able to cast this on the move would make it 100 times better. Thundering Blast needs a serious boost.

 

Also, did anyone notice that we are the only class whose 31 point talents in our unique trees are either channelled or have a cast time? Everyone else’s is instant. Funny that…

 

Make TB instant, increase it's CD to 15sec like most of the others and give it's damage a serious kick up the *****.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Kyhren

[Xanatharia]

They need to fix sorcerer dps/survivability like yesterday!

[Sosajoshua]

Shock normally does more than Lightning Strike so there is your on the move ability. TB from what I remember is always a crit so for Lightning Specs you might want to stress willpower, power, and surge. I guess for a lightning spec insta-TB would be good (madness never tried lightning) but for that bring back wrath-CL

[Chemic_al]

Shock normally does more than Lightning Strike so there is your on the move ability. TB from what I remember is always a crit so for Lightning Specs you might want to stress willpower, power, and surge. I guess for a lightning spec insta-TB would be good (madness never tried lightning) but for that bring back wrath-CL

 

It's still low-ish damage even with crit, but yeah being able to spec it as instant, which given the low damage TB is, itreally ought to be, otherwise damage needs to be upped considerably to take account of the fact it is a 31 point talent, and you have to stand for 2 secs to cast it....

[Cempa]

They need to shake things up in the talent trees a bit for PvP without increasing DPS....Electric Binding is such a life saver I would love to see that available to all builds.

 

Effusion 10 sec shorter Force Speed is so valuable because of how much of a life saver Force Speed is and the Force management skill is really nice as it allows me to heal during combat and because my heals are so weak I need to cast many times.

[Xsjado]

They need to shake things up in the talent trees a bit for PvP without increasing DPS....Electric Binding is such a life saver I would love to see that available to all builds.

 

Effusion 10 sec shorter Force Speed is so valuable because of how much of a life saver Force Speed is and the Force management skill is really nice as it allows me to heal during combat and because my heals are so weak I need to cast many times.

 

Electric binding is only useful for group PvP objective play, such as planting bombs on the first door in void. Cempa, stop repeating yourself with these suggestions about moving it to a lower tier so it can be put in 31pt builds. Honestly I feel like the ability has synergism with dps caster style play not a dot based. Yes, it's great to save you for a mere second or two more, but in almost all cases your death is imminent unless you play on a pre-made and have a healer to save your sorry *** every time you use overload.

 

This class needs damage not more bull***** utility / defensive talents that simply buy us a few seconds here and there, then once our opponents resolve is full (which happens quick) we're screwed because we never had a chance to get any solid damage in to take them down.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Xsjado

[Chemic_al]

Yeah, getting kinda fed up too, doing daily watching the opposite team often have 3 or more sents in and they see me and leap to me without a second though. Whatever people say about kiting one, you can't kite two or or more of em.

 

Never mind watching an enemy vanguard melt me so quickly it's a joke.

 

*Sigh*

 

What started out as a fun class to play, is now just a joke, even scoundrels know you're a meal ticket to medals.

 

Good job Bioware.... back to the tanksin it is then.

[Xsjado]

Bioware should take some notes from the Blizzard devs on Clothie / glass-cannon PvP class design.

 

Granted I haven't kept up with WoW abilities since Cataclysm....Locks have a tank spec with soul link, multiple ways to regen hp without casting. Mages have frost armor and fire armor procs for kiting as well as iceblock for short term damage immunity, and invisibility. Shadowpriests, shadowform, fears, hp regens etc..who knows what other tricks they have for dealing with melee with the current build. The key here is that many of these abilities are passive and don't require wasting time with GCDs so they actually have time to DPS instead of mashing sprint, shield, overload, force slow as fast as you can before you explode.

 

I feel like a damn Druid in this game. Useless, taking up space unless I'm heal specced. You know, because feral and balance were gimp for so long no serious PvPer in their right mind entered an arena as those specs if they wanted to be a top dawg glad. Otherwise, we're just a quick free kill to most classes and a laughing stock on the battlefield as DPS spec.

 

Hell I had an operative harassing me just a few minutes ago saying in spatial "why run". He's right, we're a frickin joke.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Xsjado

[fubari]

/cough

 

 

Sorc's are fine.....Just become a guild leader and order 7 members to follow you around and protect you.

 

 

/cough

Edited May 13, 2012 by fubari

[Wynn]

I'm keeping up with warhero healers in my Sorc that's been a 50 for about a week and a half now. Life became a lot easier once I spec in to 20 points of lighting.

 

My gut is telling me all the sorc/sage that got stomp on ptr and live pvped in full pve gear. !.2 name of the game is get as much Expertise as you can.

[crissio]

This is what happened when Bioware started listening to the amateur pvp players which sadly majority posters in this forum. They spent too much time QQing in here about how much sorc kicked their *** in pvp therefore they wanted that class to be nerfed, and now the result is this 1.2 big nerf in sorc dps class.

 

In high level pvp fighting between experienced good players, they knew that sorc is sucks , especially when it comes to fighting one by one against melee class. No matter how much your CC are, no matter you LoS your target, it's all being nullified by their range attack such as: saber throw , or leaping movement that can instantly jump through your direction when you tried to create a gap , or pulling sorc to them.

 

Now, dont get me wrong, mostly I can beat mediocre jugg or mara , but it requires a lot of LoS, and run away . But if fight against good mara or jugg, I can only win 2 out of 10 single encounter against them.

Not that it matters but I got level 94 valor on my Sorc , so it should says a lot how much time I spent on my class and in WZ.

 

This game is unbalanced, melee class basically destroy everything in pvp.

[Gotryce]

I feel the same exact was as crissio. We have no burst damage to compete with other classes, we have no debuffs to amplify our damage and we are the weakest armored class. We have to rely on LoS or the other player just being plain bad. Though I felt this way before 1.2, with Chain Lightning or Death Field being our big dps burst hitting for maybe 2.5k-3k on any decent geared player. Where today at 11k Expertise I get crit for 5k+ by just about anyone. It really is a shame, as I picked this class for damage and a good 1v1 ranged class. Sadly we are confided to a support role. Edited May 14, 2012 by Gotryce

[TwitchWINs]

Lol you guys are sad, sorcerers are by far not the strongest class in game atm but still a very good class if played right specially as dps as all my movies show just unbind S and rebind A/D as strafe keys it will help alot also try not to click so much

[kenbenobi]

Our dots really does not hurt anyone. They tick way too slow. Really the armor is like one layer of toilet paper.

[TwitchWINs]

Once again you guys need to check yourself when you say sorcs/sages suck lol here are some suggestions

.1 Stop backpeddling, just unbind S key already please

.2 Stop keyturning, rebind A-D with right and left strafe

.3 Play fully zoomed out so you can have more situational awareness(very important)

.4 When melee classes run at you !!IMMEDIATELY!! use "Slow" and start kiting them using as little CDs as you can

.5 Once a melee class has used their gap closers THEN use "force speed,overload..ect)

.6 Try to force their stun break b4 you use your stun weather that be by using snares whirlwind...ect

.7 Fighting ranged classes use LOS to your advantage we are a DOT(damage over time) class! POLE HUMP

.8 Play the spec your most comfortable with, or try something new and get comfortable!

.9 Use cooldowns at the right time avoid popping all your cooldowns if you think you might get CC'd or stunned

.10 Learn your class inside and out talents abilities...ect

.11 Learn other classes Offensive/Defensive abilities and their tooltip icons!(very important)

.12 Learn other classes as much as possible mainly the ones you have most trouble with

.13 Duel more/ play more warzones!

 

That's just a short list of things which will IMPROVE your gameplay. as for the guy who was saying sorcerer damage is slow and we have no burst you sir....are you trying to saber strike people to death? Don't get me wrong my sorcerer is geared i have 9 peices of war hero gear i believe something like 1180 expertise which really is not much as i could have around 1300 easy. my sorcerer specs are.

1180 expertise, 27% crit, 815 power, 76.90% surge, 6.50% alacrity, and 16600ish HP. i play lightning because its the most fun and on a target with light armor+1310 expertise i can do 16500/18500 damage in under 4 seconds.

As for my friend who plays Madness he can do bursts of up to 14000-15500 in just around 3-5 seconds and his gear is half as good as mine . I will be making movies on how to fight each class in this game very soon after i release my fourth movie "Remedy IV" you can pick up some good tips from just watching my movies. Please stop trying to mislead people into thinking sorcerers suck as i have said once ill say it again our class is not the most powerful and also not the weakest. When played right its one of the best dps classes in the game atm.

Nuff said

[Dendarogg]

Nuff said

Are you playing with the same space-time rules to which we are all bound or are you in an alternate universe?

How can you do 16500/18500 damage in under 4 seconds and your friend 14000-15500 in just around 3-5 seconds?

Surely it's clear watching your videos you play against fingerless monkeys most of the times... Good for you, but someone may want this class has chances even in actually competitive enviroments.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Dendarogg

[TwitchWINs]

Are you playing with the same space-time rules to which we are all bound or are you in an alternate universe?

How can you do 16500/18500 damage in under 4 seconds and your friend 14000-15500 in just around 3-5 seconds?

Surely it's clear watching your videos you play against fingerless monkeys most of the times... Good for you, but someone may want this class has chances even in actually competitive enviroments.

 

Just stop backpeddling and you might have a chance of actually beating people

As for the damage yes i have 5-6 clips of me doing that much burst in under 4 seconds which was in a controlled test with myself having warrior buff+ my rakata stim +power relic+rakata attack adrenal i myself wearing 1180 expertise my friend who i was testing on was in 1300+ish. but dont go bashing my movies untill you make some and show me your not a backpeddle/keyturning pro who i assume you are also note i have 815 power unbuffed

Edited May 15, 2012 by TwitchWINs

[Cempa]

It really won't matter until people can compare oranges to oranges, once gear needs 2400 rating and the only way to get that rating is WIN we can start comparing like for like.

[Annex]

Just stop backpeddling and you might have a chance of actually beating people

 

Do you hear that guys. The reason you heal less, do less damage and take more damage is cos youre backpeddalling.

 

OBVIOUSLY.

[TwitchWINs]

Not the whole reason but yes players who backpeddle in pvp are 100% of the time horrible when you can accept this and quit QQing the rebuilding process can begin!