Sage/Sorc Healer PvE Force Regain

[SgtKlavier]

Technically, sorcs now have more methods to increase regen, or reduce/eliminate effects that reduce regen. As such, the healing itself is not more force intensive, but the fights themselves are more healing intensive, due to the scaling of gear and the fact that we are basically starting progression over again. Within a few months, I expect opinions to be of the thought that it is quite easy to manage force with high level gear.

[grallmate]

Yeah it's true,seer/sorcerer healing now is more force intensive,from my experience doing lvl 55 HM FP.Healing trance alone not enuff on putting the tank HP back up to full(maybe with better gears).I need to manage my force very careful now in 2.0.

 

I know many Sages I've previously run with would drop a Salvation and then use their Noble Sacrifice. While this was never the optimal route if you were at 100% HP it was of negligible difference if you were sub 90%. Unfortunately with the changes in 2.0, this tactic consumes your stacks of Resplendence to cast the Salvation and ends up with you using Noble Sacrifice without the proc. You need to get used to using Noble Sacrifice BEFORE Salvation if you follow the info in this post.

 

As I posted when the self heal was introduced though, that pretty much over rides many of the old force management techniques.

 

Another important point that most Sages ignore: the higher your HP the more you end up needing to heal yourself after Noble Sacrifice. Sages more than any other class should be focusing on minimizing their HP to the point that using the old 21 Resolve Augments was better for them than the 22 version. Massive kudos to Vesia for being the only Sage I ever saw actually do that though.

 

EDIT: Also this used to be a sticky. Apparently BW is unstickying things but not stickying the new guides people post. Sadface.

Edited April 26, 2013 by grallmate

[Krazy_Karl]

Another important point that most Sages ignore: the higher your HP the more you end up needing to heal yourself after Noble Sacrifice. Sages more than any other class should be focusing on minimizing their HP to the point that using the old 21 Resolve Augments was better for them than the 22 version. Massive kudos to Vesia for being the only Sage I ever saw actually do that though.

 

Wrong.

 

Given the amount of raid wide damage they have started implementing in Operations, you need to have the appropriate amount of HP for the tier of content you are completing. Your HP is a resource which is % based, so to allow you to maintain high enough HP to survive raid wide damage, while still utilizing the regeneration mechanic, more HP is still beneficial.

 

Now I am not advocating using lettered mods/enhancements, I am simply stating that intentionally sacrificing HP because you have to heal yourself more after a noble sacrifice is flat out wrong.

 

Regards,

KK

[grallmate]

Wrong.

 

Given the amount of raid wide damage they have started implementing in Operations, you need to have the appropriate amount of HP for the tier of content you are completing. Your HP is a resource which is % based, so to allow you to maintain high enough HP to survive raid wide damage, while still utilizing the regeneration mechanic, more HP is still beneficial.

 

Now I am not advocating using lettered mods/enhancements, I am simply stating that intentionally sacrificing HP because you have to heal yourself more after a noble sacrifice is flat out wrong.

 

Regards,

KK

 

At any given gear level now, about the most you can sacrifice compared to a DPS is 40 Endurance from not collecting Datacrons. Pre 2.0 you could sacrifice another 14 by using 21 Purple Augments instead of the 22s. Any further sacrifices ended up losing your Willpower or secondary stats which ended up being worse. That slightly lower HP pool (~465 pre-2.0, ~420 now) meant you had marginally better efficiency in sustained healing scenarios. The difference isn't really enough to save or cause a wipe either way.

 

Remember the more you lose to Nobel Sacrifice the more you have to heal back. The difference is negligible but some people are interested in hitting the absolute ideal character, and having lower HP (without impacting your key healing stats) on a Sage does provide better efficiency. Of course, for the average player, you're already wasting efficiency on overheal and that adjustment in HP level will have no effect. For someone who is at the top of their game, its another route to optimize.

 

Essentially, its like comparing a $5000 tennis racket with a $50 one. For a newbie there is no difference, for a world ranked pro? All the difference in the world even if they can still win with the $50 one.

[dscount]

Force Regain is more important now than ever with the increased raid wide damage.

 

Alacrity needs a BUMP up in Force Regen area or the DR Curve for Alacrity needs a boost. Either way the extra demand on healing creates a pretty nasty learning curve to keep a team alive and yourself.

[Nailkita]

I still firmly believe the devs intended Sorc/Sage to get a stacked HoT from the Op/Scoundrel healer or green pew-pew from the Merc/Commando.

 

It would be interesting to see how the health sacrifice relates to the other healer classes as well in that regard.

 

I always keep hots up on my sorc buddies once I see their force dip a bit, costs me very little resources to ensure they don't have to be as concerned that their regen will get them killed.

[Krazy_Karl]

At any given gear level now, about the most you can sacrifice compared to a DPS is 40 Endurance from not collecting Datacrons. Pre 2.0 you could sacrifice another 14 by using 21 Purple Augments instead of the 22s. Any further sacrifices ended up losing your Willpower or secondary stats which ended up being worse. That slightly lower HP pool (~465 pre-2.0, ~420 now) meant you had marginally better efficiency in sustained healing scenarios. The difference isn't really enough to save or cause a wipe either way.

 

Remember the more you lose to Nobel Sacrifice the more you have to heal back. The difference is negligible but some people are interested in hitting the absolute ideal character, and having lower HP (without impacting your key healing stats) on a Sage does provide better efficiency. Of course, for the average player, you're already wasting efficiency on overheal and that adjustment in HP level will have no effect. For someone who is at the top of their game, its another route to optimize.

 

Essentially, its like comparing a $5000 tennis racket with a $50 one. For a newbie there is no difference, for a world ranked pro? All the difference in the world even if they can still win with the $50 one.

 

This is still flat out wrong. You're working under an incorrect assumption that you will never at any point during a fight allow yourself to be overhealed by never letting yourself get back to maximum health. Only then does it provide better efficiency from a mathematical standpoint but in practice you're still completely wrong.

 

Hitting the absolute ideal character depends on what you are doing. If you intend to only run flashpoints and story mode operations where you are solo healing (in order to maximize your efficiency by never being at maximum HP or overhealing yourself), sure sacrifice HP to improve your theoretical efficiency. If you do anything, and I emphasize ANYTHING more, your advice is flat out incorrect and I pray no one actually listens to it.

 

And your analogy is terrible as well as it is backwards. I would consider the "world ranked pro" to be the NiM raider, and the "newbie" to be the Flashpoint hero. For the Newbie, your advice would increase their theoretical skill cap, albeit they aren't in a position to even reach it in the first place. For the "world ranked pro", taking your advice would severely hinder their ability to perform at the highest level needed to complete the most difficult content (not that there really is any).

 

Regards,

KK

Edited June 4, 2013 by Krazy_Karl

[adam_wan]

At any given gear level now, about the most you can sacrifice compared to a DPS is 40 Endurance from not collecting Datacrons. Pre 2.0 you could sacrifice another 14 by using 21 Purple Augments instead of the 22s. Any further sacrifices ended up losing your Willpower or secondary stats which ended up being worse. That slightly lower HP pool (~465 pre-2.0, ~420 now) meant you had marginally better efficiency in sustained healing scenarios. The difference isn't really enough to save or cause a wipe either way.

 

Remember the more you lose to Nobel Sacrifice the more you have to heal back. The difference is negligible but some people are interested in hitting the absolute ideal character, and having lower HP (without impacting your key healing stats) on a Sage does provide better efficiency. Of course, for the average player, you're already wasting efficiency on overheal and that adjustment in HP level will have no effect. For someone who is at the top of their game, its another route to optimize.

 

Essentially, its like comparing a $5000 tennis racket with a $50 one. For a newbie there is no difference, for a world ranked pro? All the difference in the world even if they can still win with the $50 one.

 

What? Intentionally lower HP? Your points are extremely invalid. I get that you shouldnt be using high endurance enhancements, but according to your logic, if im at 34k health (i am) and i frequently float around 28k health (i do), then i should lower my HP down to 30k so i only have to do 2k of self healing. What sense does this make? The loss of willpower is going to handicap your heals. Sorry but im LOLing at this and i cant believe people would follow this advice. Go tell a nightmare geared healer that you wont take him bc his HP is too high.

[Orderken]

Also this used to be a sticky. Apparently BW is unstickying things but not stickying the new guides people post. Sadface.

 

The changes introduced in RotHC have rendered the original post inaccurate in every material respect. It's beyond editing, and would need to be scrapped and re-written.

 

Though force management requires discipline and attention in RotHC, as it should, RotHC eased force management for Sorcerers|Sages. For guidance that isn't outmoded, please see the link in my signature, and in particular the third topic under heading "PVE Advice".

 

Another important point that most Sages ignore: the higher your HP the more you end up needing to heal yourself after Noble Sacrifice. Sages more than any other class should be focusing on minimizing their HP to the point that using the old 21 Resolve Augments was better for them than the 22 version. Massive kudos to Vesia for being the only Sage I ever saw actually do that though.

 

Echoing what others have said, this notion was and is ridiculous. Though a healer shouldn't sacrifice stats that benefit healing to stack Endurance, Endurance is important (and is essential for PVP and for certain NiM bosses, such as Kephess the Undying) and should be maximized.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Orderken