Assault Spec - PvP Survivability

[fongers]

Hey guys, I'm not opening this thread to discuss the mechanical aspects of this class that determine its survivability. I just want to know how to stay alive in a 50 warzone from a playstyle and tactics perspective. I'm currently in full recruit so I'm guessing survivability will go up as I switch out pieces for BM but I'm finding it difficult to stay within the optimal 10m range without getting so deep that I'm taking lightsabers to the face from melee. How do you deal close-in damage without actually getting sucked into the scrum?

 

A second question I have regards burst. I know this spec can have a ton of burst potential - I just don't know how to execute it. I'm finding it difficult to finish targets off. Again, part of it likely has to do with my low level recruit gear but I'm fairly certain it has to do with L2P as well. Right now, my usual opening rotation is AP -> Incendiary Round -> HIB -> SS/IP until HIB procs or comes off cooldown. Is there something I'm missing in this rotation or an ability that's misplaced?

[Fafryd]

Recruit is good for expertise but terrible for endurance. Part of your survivability comes from more endurance on better gear. I am at 18400 hps at the moment and have not spec for any hp gain or endurance preference on gear - it's just what comes from the WH set.

 

I usually start with IR, activated for free, then crit boost plus deliver AP, then HIB, then IP and another HIB. All of this happens while closing on the target - and this is why I prefer Assault to Tactics. In the initial engagement, I almost exclusively go for the healer or for the highest DPS based on my experience with the opposition. Once in melee range you can either interrupt or stockstrike. If rooted, you can harpoon the enemy in.

[Philosomanic]

Hey guys, I'm not opening this thread to discuss the mechanical aspects of this class that determine its survivability. I just want to know how to stay alive in a 50 warzone from a playstyle and tactics perspective. I'm currently in full recruit so I'm guessing survivability will go up as I switch out pieces for BM but I'm finding it difficult to stay within the optimal 10m range without getting so deep that I'm taking lightsabers to the face from melee. How do you deal close-in damage without actually getting sucked into the scrum?

 

A second question I have regards burst. I know this spec can have a ton of burst potential - I just don't know how to execute it. I'm finding it difficult to finish targets off. Again, part of it likely has to do with my low level recruit gear but I'm fairly certain it has to do with L2P as well. Right now, my usual opening rotation is AP -> Incendiary Round -> HIB -> SS/IP until HIB procs or comes off cooldown. Is there something I'm missing in this rotation or an ability that's misplaced?

 

 

A few things to consider. First off, harpoon is invaluable for fringe fighting. I'd strongly recommend getting Tactical Tools for -10s cooldown, as it's such an incredibly useful tool. With a 35s CD, you can pull one player out of the scrum, light them on fire, smash their face, and kill them, and harpoon will already be half cooled down.

 

Especially if you're Assault, don't be afraid to DPS at range if you know the scrum will kill you. This isn't always true, but sometimes you'll be more of a help to your team hanging back, using your taunts on CD, and DPSing at range than charging in and dying quickly. Testing has shown that Assault Vanguards actually do decent DPS from range. People who pulled 1,200 DPS at melee range pulled 1,100 DPS from 10m away and 900 DPS from 30m away. Sometimes it's better to do 10-25% less damage if it means living much longer.

 

Also, when you do get within melee range, don't stand still or make yourself an easy target. Every skill we have (except PC and MV) can be cast on the move. Use that to your advantage. You should be constantly moving while in the scrum, to keep the melees off your back. I typically lead with IR -> AP/SG -> HiB, move in for a few Ion Pulses, get into melee for SS, and then dance back out into 10m range. While SS is on cooldown, there is no reason whatsoever for you to let them be in melee range. Kite-strafing is your friend as a Vanguard.

 

And finally, especially as Assault, don't hold onto your cooldowns. Both Adrenaline Rush and Reactive Shield are can go as low as a 40s cooldown, although it's usually more like a minute. If you're under 85% health, use Adrenaline Rush. If you start taking targeted damage (rather than AoEs), use Reactive Shield. One of the biggest mistakes I see is people holding onto their shield until they're at 25%, at which point it does you very little good. It's much better to occasionally use your shield when you don't need it than to hold onto it and only use it twice a warzone.

[fongers]

These are some great tips guys. I do have a question about ranged DPS though. It seems my <10m rotation is pretty standard but I have no idea how to keep DPS up beyond IP range. HiB can't proc and without that it seems I'm limited to FA, AP/SP, IR, and HiB on standard cooldown. Since all of these abilities have a 15 sec cooldown, won't I be hitting hammershot a lot?

[theworldends]

Since all of these abilities have a 15 sec cooldown, won't I be hitting hammershot a lot?

 

Yes. You can also work in explosive round if you find that all the hammer shot has left you with a lot of spare ammo

[exphryl]

I usually start with IR, activated for free, then crit boost plus deliver AP, then HIB, then IP and another HIB. All of this happens while closing on the target - and this is why I prefer Assault to Tactics. In the initial engagement, I almost exclusively go for the healer or for the highest DPS based on my experience with the opposition. Once in melee range you can either interrupt or stockstrike. If rooted, you can harpoon the enemy in.

 

If you want to squeeze and extra GCD out of your Relics/Abilities, use AP and than hit your bonuses. The explosion takes whatever buff you have on so if you use it after you throw it, you'll still get the bonus damage/crit.

[Fafryd]

Thanks - didn't know that. As it turns out, I may accidentally do it that way already; will try to ensure it happens.

[Eldrimner]

Hey guys, I'm not opening this thread to discuss the mechanical aspects of this class that determine its survivability. I just want to know how to stay alive in a 50 warzone from a playstyle and tactics perspective. I'm currently in full recruit so I'm guessing survivability will go up as I switch out pieces for BM but I'm finding it difficult to stay within the optimal 10m range without getting so deep that I'm taking lightsabers to the face from melee. How do you deal close-in damage without actually getting sucked into the scrum?

 

A second question I have regards burst. I know this spec can have a ton of burst potential - I just don't know how to execute it. I'm finding it difficult to finish targets off. Again, part of it likely has to do with my low level recruit gear but I'm fairly certain it has to do with L2P as well. Right now, my usual opening rotation is AP -> Incendiary Round -> HIB -> SS/IP until HIB procs or comes off cooldown. Is there something I'm missing in this rotation or an ability that's misplaced?

 

Recruite gear is horrible. Full Bm will be a big upgrade but not as good as properly moded bm gear. I had full combat tech/eliminator before the patch so it was easy to mix match mods after the patch. Damage went way up after 1.2. WH gear has much better stats distribution compared to BM.

 

But no matter what gear you have you will still be an easy kill because you have no means of escape and only one damage reduction ability on a long cooldown. Super weak healing ability and short stuns. So if you are pugging and getting very little support from your team you will die a lot. Nothing you can do about that. What I'm saying is that your survivability will always be bad unless you get heals/guard or fighting undergeared players.

 

It's also better to start of with IR at max distance. Then when close enough do an IP. If they haven't had the dots removed by then just hit(if ready) your power relic + power adrenalin + battle focus(just have a macro rdy for when it's a good idee to use all at the same time) followed by AP-> CG -> HIB -> SS -> HIB -> IP -> NJ -> IP/HIB/SS what ever is ready at that point. I find this rotation to do the most damage but assumes others don't use any cc on your target or your self.

 

In the end your burst will depend on what classes and their gear both sides have. To give you a idee of damage. I have WH gun + 3 parts WH armor that's augmented with the rest beeing BM moded. A really soft target(bad gear) that is not guarded, with you not beeing taunted will take 5k+ hits(biggest hit so far 6.3k) when you are properly buffed.

 

A target with equal gear and you beeing taunted will take about 2-3k with you beeing buffed. If the target also have guard on it you will se hits for under 1k and with crits up too 2k with all possible buffs. This is ofc assuming you arn't hitting a well geared marauder or sin since they take even less damage.

 

Finnishing of a target(solo) that's not a merc dps/PT or a sniper is hard because everybody else have better resource management and better defensive cooldowns. It will just come down to if you have your cooldowns ready or gear difference.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Eldrimner

[fongers]

Recruite gear is horrible. Full Bm will be a big upgrade but not as good as properly moded bm gear. I had full combat tech/eliminator before the patch so it was easy to mix match mods after the patch. Damage went way up after 1.2. WH gear has much better stats distribution compared to BM.

 

But no matter what gear you have you will still be an easy kill because you have no means of escape and only one damage reduction ability on a long cooldown. Super weak healing ability and short stuns. So if you are pugging and getting very little support from your team you will die a lot. Nothing you can do about that. What I'm saying is that your survivability will always be bad unless you get heals/guard or fighting undergeared players.

 

It's also better to start of with IR at max distance. Then when close enough do an IP. If they haven't had the dots removed by then just hit(if ready) your power relic + power adrenalin + battle focus(just have a macro rdy for when it's a good idee to use all at the same time) followed by AP-> CG -> HIB -> SS -> HIB -> IP -> NJ -> IP/HIB/SS what ever is ready at that point. I find this rotation to do the most damage but assumes others don't use any cc on your target or your self.

 

In the end your burst will depend on what classes and their gear both sides have. To give you a idee of damage. I have WH gun + 3 parts WH armor that's augmented with the rest beeing BM moded. A really soft target(bad gear) that is not guarded, with you not beeing taunted will take 5k+ hits(biggest hit so far 6.3k) when you are properly buffed.

 

A target with equal gear and you beeing taunted will take about 2-3k with you beeing buffed. If the target also have guard on it you will se hits for under 1k and with crits up too 2k with all possible buffs. This is ofc assuming you arn't hitting a well geared marauder or sin since they take even less damage.

 

Finnishing of a target(solo) that's not a merc dps/PT or a sniper is hard because everybody else have better resource management and better defensive cooldowns. It will just come down to if you have your cooldowns ready or gear difference.

 

Definitely some useful information. Two questions though:

 

What do you mean by "properly modded" BM gear? What is an optimal balance between power/surge/crit for an Assault Specialist? I might have been mistaken but last time I compared the Combat Tech/Eliminator sets I thought their stat distribution was identical and that the set bonuses were the only difference.

 

I've seen well-geared pyrotechs solo targets easily on my server and it doesn't seem to matter what class their victims are. Are there any differences in how their abilities work or is it just a matter of their gear being far superior (my server is dominated by Imperial PvP guilds that geared up to full BM and WH very quickly post-1.2)? When I run into a well-geared pyrotech I typically find I'm dead by the time I get their health to 70%.

[Philosomanic]

Definitely some useful information. Two questions though:

 

What do you mean by "properly modded" BM gear? What is an optimal balance between power/surge/crit for an Assault Specialist? I might have been mistaken but last time I compared the Combat Tech/Eliminator sets I thought their stat distribution was identical and that the set bonuses were the only difference.

 

I've seen well-geared pyrotechs solo targets easily on my server and it doesn't seem to matter what class their victims are. Are there any differences in how their abilities work or is it just a matter of their gear being far superior (my server is dominated by Imperial PvP guilds that geared up to full BM and WH very quickly post-1.2)? When I run into a well-geared pyrotech I typically find I'm dead by the time I get their health to 70%.

 

"Properly modded" is up to you. Everyone likes to mod their gear differently. You have to choose the right balance between Crit/Surge (burst damage), Power/Accuracy (sustained DPS), and Endurance/Defense (survivability). Different people will tell you different numbers to aim for. It's all about how you want to play, and you're going to spend a good long time messing around with mods. However, the one thing we can say is that the default mods aren't as good as ones you've customized to fit your style.

 

Pyros are our mirrors. We have a few bugs that they don't (and vice-versa), but as far as everything is WAI, we're mirror classes. It's probably mostly due to gear, which makes a huge difference.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Philosomanic

[Eldrimner]

Definitely some useful information. Two questions though:

 

What do you mean by "properly modded" BM gear? What is an optimal balance between power/surge/crit for an Assault Specialist? I might have been mistaken but last time I compared the Combat Tech/Eliminator sets I thought their stat distribution was identical and that the set bonuses were the only difference.

 

I've seen well-geared pyrotechs solo targets easily on my server and it doesn't seem to matter what class their victims are. Are there any differences in how their abilities work or is it just a matter of their gear being far superior (my server is dominated by Imperial PvP guilds that geared up to full BM and WH very quickly post-1.2)? When I run into a well-geared pyrotech I typically find I'm dead by the time I get their health to 70%.

 

Well since I had 2 sets I could mix the mods and get a lot more power. As somebody said what you think is "properly modded" gear is up to you but reading some people who said they have done the math, around 25% crit with 72% surge and then go for power looks to be a good way to go. I had those stats on my bm gear after 1.2. Atm my crit sucks, I guess I could have been a bit more careful with which parts WH I got first but it will even out when I get the rest. I wouldn't recommend going under 25% unbuffed crit.

 

As for the PTs on your server. If you and the guys on your team are running around in recruit gear then they will ofc kill you. If I see a Imp with 13k hp I will kill him regardless of class. I run into a few 13khp PTs once in a while and they are just so soft I kill them in about 10 sec while they take very little of my health. So it's mostly a gear thing that's looking worse because they are running in a pre against pugs. Vanguards do have some bugs that reduce our damage that the PT doesn't have to suffer.

 

Since we are talking about assault spec here the bugs are that we don't get the first tick from plasma cell and even when the target has a dot on him we can't use HIB sometimes and a we have a delay on CG. Might be more but those are the once that annoy me anyways.

[Twelve]

Some great posts here.

 

You can stand 2 equally geared & specced DPS Vanguards side-by-side, and one who plays with more skill in target selection and CD usage will outdamage the other by as much as double. Taunts are a good example, but there's not a lot you can do about that except attack the person that taunted you (if you know). Guard is another good example; peel off a guarded target for a softer one if possible. Also, defensive cooldowns like the jugg ability where they take very little damage, etc.

 

After a while, you learn to recognize gear (though, slotting orange gear has made that harder). But I can spot recruit gear a mile away, and like someone else said, if I see a 12-13k hp running around, i'll drop them in 4 GCDs or less.

 

As for survivability, I can't offer much guidance. My playstyle is to burn hard, die fast, and respawn with full ammo. I'm sort of the kamikaze of the match (but not to the detriment of the objectives). I rerolled Vang (was a PT), so I haven't gotten fully geared up in WH yet, but with full BM I had a 660k voidstar and generally average about 400k.

[fongers]

Some great posts here.

 

You can stand 2 equally geared & specced DPS Vanguards side-by-side, and one who plays with more skill in target selection and CD usage will outdamage the other by as much as double. Taunts are a good example, but there's not a lot you can do about that except attack the person that taunted you (if you know). Guard is another good example; peel off a guarded target for a softer one if possible. Also, defensive cooldowns like the jugg ability where they take very little damage, etc.

 

After a while, you learn to recognize gear (though, slotting orange gear has made that harder). But I can spot recruit gear a mile away, and like someone else said, if I see a 12-13k hp running around, i'll drop them in 4 GCDs or less.

 

As for survivability, I can't offer much guidance. My playstyle is to burn hard, die fast, and respawn with full ammo. I'm sort of the kamikaze of the match (but not to the detriment of the objectives). I rerolled Vang (was a PT), so I haven't gotten fully geared up in WH yet, but with full BM I had a 660k voidstar and generally average about 400k.

 

This is an excellent point (the part regarding target selection). I'm trying to avoid just attacking the first target I see but I often find the flow of the game forces me to attack tougher targets. I usually prioritize melee attacking my healer/ball carrier, ranged attacking my healer/ball carrier, then the other side's healers. I usually don't make a beeline straight towards the squishiest target but I'm starting to wonder if I should. In my limited experience I've found that this class does seem to lend itself better to more aggressive gameplay and quickly eliminating the easier targets should reduce the other team's overall DPS significantly.

[Desist]

In recruit gear, if someone with better gear than you is attacking you, you're gonna die pretty fast. Use your reactive shield and hot as much as possible and run out of their LOS. If you have a healer, try to stay in their LOS. Don't stop putting out damage while you're running. Do as much damage as you can. Play ring around the rosies with the pillars. Just make them waste their time chasing a weak player.

 

If you see a target that you can kill or maybe it's some squishy healer trying to stay near a pillar, harpoon them to you and start beating on them. You don't necessarily want to be in the middle of all of the fighting. That's for tanks and tanky dps. You aren't quite there yet. Target the squishies on the frindge or just be on the frindge yourself and try to stay in LOS of your healers.

 

Use your taunts on enemy dps. Keeping your teammates alive, keeps you alive. Use your interrupt on important abilities/heals. Use your stuns intelligently. Most classes/specs have specific abilities/circumstances where you need to stun them to have any hope of winning. It'd take too long to write about each of them so I'll leave it to you to figure out.

[fongers]

If you see a target that you can kill or maybe it's some squishy healer trying to stay near a pillar, harpoon them to you and start beating on them. You don't necessarily want to be in the middle of all of the fighting. That's for tanks and tanky dps. You aren't quite there yet. Target the squishies on the frindge or just be on the frindge yourself and try to stay in LOS of your healers.

 

 

Do Assault Spec Vanguards ever stop being squishy though? The heavy armour really doesn't seem to make a difference and the spec still only has one damage mitigation/avoidance ability. I don't find the class as bad as Commando (I have a 50 Commando as well) in terms of getting locked down and killed but lately if I get focused too much I pop my AOE stun and get out of dodge as fast as I can.

[exphryl]

Do Assault Spec Vanguards ever stop being squishy though?.

 

No...

[Husofanten]

Even my sniper can take more damage... comes with the positioning but also with much more defensive abilities.

[Philosomanic]

Do Assault Spec Vanguards ever stop being squishy though? The heavy armour really doesn't seem to make a difference and the spec still only has one damage mitigation/avoidance ability. I don't find the class as bad as Commando (I have a 50 Commando as well) in terms of getting locked down and killed but lately if I get focused too much I pop my AOE stun and get out of dodge as fast as I can.

 

Vanguard does get better though. You get incredibly short cooldowns on both Adrenaline Rush and Reactive Shield higher up in the tree. Those can get the cooldowns down to 24s for Adrenaline and 40s for Reactive Shield, assuming perfect conditions. That will never happen, but I usually get to use Reactive Shield every 60s (if you're taking damage for 20s every minute) and Adrenaline every 30-40s (if you get 20-30 crits a minute). So any time you find yourself in a hard fight, it's a good bet that you'll have both your cooldowns available. They make a big difference.

 

If you're looking to survive focus fire... go tank spec. No DPS or healer in this game can survive focus fire without a tank and healer keeping them up. If you're PUG-ing, you'll only be able to manage that as a Shield Specialist. We're actually better than many other classes in the game. I can personally testify that Shadows melt twice as fast under any kind of damage.

 

If you find yourself being focused without a tank/healer backing you up, you should probably change your tactics. That works out great if you're in a coordinated team, but as an essentially solo player you'll die quickly and frequently. You'll survive best while still helping your team by playing as a skirmisher. Fight on the edges of battles.

 

If you can Harpoon a healer away from their team and take them down, then intercept them before they can rejoin the fight, you'll give your side a big advantage. You should be using your taunts frequently at range. You can clear out freecasting Snipers, Mercenaries, and Sorcerers who were foolish enough to fall behind. In Huttball, for example, I usually stay on the ramps around the center pit. I taunt the heck out of everyone in the middle, keep the ramps Sniper-free, and still do high damage to the ball-carrier if they come close. Once our team gets the ball, I'm in position to receive and throw a pass. I rarely jump down from the ramps.

[Desist]

Do Assault Spec Vanguards ever stop being squishy though? The heavy armour really doesn't seem to make a difference and the spec still only has one damage mitigation/avoidance ability. I don't find the class as bad as Commando (I have a 50 Commando as well) in terms of getting locked down and killed but lately if I get focused too much I pop my AOE stun and get out of dodge as fast as I can.

 

Well with your bubble up and HOT, you can take a pretty good amount of damage. A warzone adrenal will also make you more durable as will a warzone health pot, used to stay out of execute range. If you use one of those tank relics that's one additional thing to use to keep you going. After all of that is gone you still have your stuns. It's a fairly decent amount of time where you aren't dieing. If you have a healer with you that isn't being attacked, you probably aren't going to die for quite a while.

 

Obviously when you don't have those cooldowns available to you, you'll just be fairly squishy and then it's kill or be killed. You'd be suprised at how many peeps you can take down with no health. As an assault vanguard you are fairly reliant on your cooldowns. You can still do a decent amount of work without them, but when they are up make sure you do something *********** awesome. If you choose your targets properly you will blow up someone in 5 GCDs. Of those 5 GCDs if you're lucky they'll only have noticed themselves taking damage for a second. Healers won't even have time to react. After that you'll start on his buddies and you'll have your shield and HOT to survive whatever they can dish out, at least long enough for another kill. With a healer healing you, you will singlehandedly wreck their entire team, unless they have like 3 healers blowing everything, but then you'll probably live forever anyways.

[fongers]

In my whole time playing my Vanguard I can count the number of times I've popped Adrenaline Rush on one hand. The cooldown always felt too long to me and the HOT too minimal. I might have to try utilizing it more though since 15% health gain is better than 0% health gain.

[Philosomanic]

In my whole time playing my Vanguard I can count the number of times I've popped Adrenaline Rush on one hand. The cooldown always felt too long to me and the HOT too minimal. I might have to try utilizing it more though since 15% health gain is better than 0% health gain.

 

Yeah, it's not a massive heal, but it makes a difference. As Assault, a big part of staying alive is learning not to hold onto your cooldowns. We get them back really fast, so it's better to use them early and frequently. I use Adrenaline Rush as soon as I hit 90% health in a fight, unless I know for sure it's going to be over in the next few seconds. You can easily use Adrenaline 5 or 6 times in a single Warzone, which means you self-heal for almost your total health. There's no real reason not to use it.