Mercenary is now useless in PvP

[oldshatterhand]

I've been playing mercenary for the past few months, got valor rank 83, 4 war hero pieces and swapped mods for the optimum crit/surge/power ratio. I played my fair part of PvP, so lack of experience or gear isn't the issue.

I am specifically referring to the Arsenal spec. Pyro is a bit better due to the slow from combustile gas cylinder, but still far inferior to the equivalent powertech build.

 

So, let's take a look at the Arsenal merc pre 1.2 - we had very low mobility, medium utility (15 sec cd knockback if talented, and a 4 second stun) and pretty low survivability (2 minute cd energy shield that only negates 25% of damage and power barrier that could reduce damage by up to 10% after 5 tracers). But on the upside we had pretty good dps and decent burst, being quite deadly if left unchecked.

 

And now let's see what happened after 1.2:

• First of all, we were promised that spamming tracers won't be an issue anymore. This was just a big fat lie, the entire arsenal tree is built around tracer, and our new highest damaging ability (unload) requires a tracer proc for optimum usage. Same for power barrier, tracer lock and heatseeker missile.
  
• Tracer spamming is even more required then before since you will be trying to get as many barrage procs as possible. The difference is our already very low mobility got hurt even more since our main dps skill (unload) requires you to stand still for the entire 3 second cast.
  
• After patch 1.2.0c heatseeker missile was broken. At first, it wrongly took into consideration heat signatures from other mercenaries when calculating damage, but BW's brilliant way to fix it was to make it completely ignore any heat signature, including your own. This can be easily tested with a friend or on the training dummy, the heatseeker missile damage is the same with 5 heat signatures or 0.
  
• Our greatest weaknesses, lack of utility and survivability were hit pretty hard. Jet Boost, the only escape ability we have got +5 second cooldown and power barrier's damage reduction was cut to half. That in addition to the damage increase from expertise makes our survivability laughable, despite the fact that we are wearing heavy armor.
  

 

If we draw the line, we can see that after patch 1.2 mercenary has by far the lowest survivability and utility, and only mediocre damage at best, making me wonder why would anyone want a mercenary in their ranked warzone group.

 

Tracer spamming is far from ideal, and in the long run I would love to see a redesign of the arsenal tree that will allow you to actually use other skills besides tracer 80% of the time. But until then, something must be done, either giving us our damage back or improving our survivability and utility. As things stand now, mercenary is broken and there is little reason to play one in PvP.

[Khoraji]

I dont know many arsenal mercs anymore. Maybe 2-3, but every time I play with them, they top the damage chart or are at LEAST in the top 5, most of the time top 3. Doesn't seem broken to me. Maybe it is because I am healing them (merc healer)

[oldshatterhand]

Healing obviously solves the survivability problem, but it can't be taken into consideration when balancing a class. Anyone is much more successful with a pocket healer.

[Khoraji]

Healing obviously solves the survivability problem, but it can't be taken into consideration when balancing a class. Anyone is much more successful with a pocket healer.

 

I'm no pocket healer, I heal everyone that needs it.

 

I was thinkin of re-speccing to arsenal just to see how it plays...maybe I will do that this weekend and feel the pain of no heals lol.

[ZeusThunder]

Survivability in 1v1 has always been an issue with arsenal mercs. They do great sustained and burst damage, but are completely useless when getting attacked. This was just compounded a bit with 1.2. The strengths are greater, ans so are the weaknesses.

That said, I do believe that the base damage of Tracer and Heatseaker missiles should be increased by about 25%. the class needs to do more damage if it's just a free kill for all other classes.

[ulukinatme]

Arsenal Merc wasn't that good once you got to the 50 bracket anyway. Any decent class will interrupt them all day. I was destroying other Mercs before 1.2 in Pyro spec just by walking in and out of range, dotting them up and throwing Thermals/Rail Shots, and using LOS. Can't cast Tracer on something that isn't targetable.

 

It is slightly annoying that I can't beat a Pyrotech Powertech in DPS considering thats our strongest DPS tree after 1.2. Mercs easily have less survivability than a Powertech anyway, it's a bit of a slap in the face that they're more effective as Pyro.

Edited April 24, 2012 by ulukinatme

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

at least these threads are better than the tracer missile whining. can't wait for my merc to be buffed next patch.

[gattiman]

I dont know many arsenal mercs anymore. Maybe 2-3, but every time I play with them, they top the damage chart or are at LEAST in the top 5, most of the time top 3. Doesn't seem broken to me. Maybe it is because I am healing them (merc healer)

 

No trust me arsenal is worthless. It has no burst and is easily interruptable. If someone posts high numbers its bc they were ignored and survived the entire wz.

[NDiggy]

Excellent post. Clearly illustrates the problems with commandos and gunnery spec. I can't believe none of the trolls have come in here to tell you to learn to play yet.

[Khoraji]

No trust me arsenal is worthless. It has no burst and is easily interruptable. If someone posts high numbers its bc they were ignored and survived the entire wz.

 

I guess I am seeing the effect of a surviving Arsenal Merc then. Like I said, I am a healer so I my experience probably differs from alot of other people who dont always have a healer on their team.

[tam_the_man]

Couldn't agree more with initial post. Only playing my level 30+ Pyro PT nowadays and hope that the dev team eventually figures out that playing an Arsenal Mercenary in the current state of PvP is no longer fun nor efficient. We simply have nothing other classes can't do better.

 

Instead of further adjusting DMG % values I would encourage the dev team to do a complete re-design of the Arsenal tree to fix our problem since everything is still heavily depending on spamming tracer missle. Often I heard arguments that the amount of skills needed in the main rotation shall determine the damage potential of a class. If this is the case...fine...then please make the Arsenal tree more complex instead of leaving us in this unacceptable awkful state.

 

Thanks!

[Pcolapat]

I am doing the same amount of damage as before the patch. Tracer doesn't hit as hard, but unload is significantly better. I think it balances out. You just have to find ways to stay out of melee range and not get in one on one situations with melee. use your aoe knockback and then electrodart them, then run away. If you try to fight in melee range, your going to lose. This class has no chance in that situation.

[NDiggy]

I am doing the same amount of damage as before the patch. Tracer doesn't hit as hard, but unload is significantly better. I think it balances out. You just have to find ways to stay out of melee range and not get in one on one situations with melee. use your aoe knockback and then electrodart them, then run away. If you try to fight in melee range, your going to lose. This class has no chance in that situation.

 

Why make a class a living breathing turret and force them to pop two cc's to run away. Give us mobility and an escape. I can live with or current damage once they fix the current bug with demo round. Being able to cast full auto on the run would be a nice change. Gives mobility and a way to kite melee.

[ComeAndSee]

Healing obviously solves the survivability problem, but it can't be taken into consideration when balancing a class. Anyone is much more successful with a pocket healer.

 

Uh, mass PvP balance is way different than 1v1.

[Nesso]

It is slightly annoying that I can't beat a Pyrotech Powertech in DPS considering thats our strongest DPS tree after 1.2. Mercs easily have less survivability than a Powertech anyway, it's a bit of a slap in the face that they're more effective as Pyro.

 

Pretty much, they have arguably a bit more versatility, more burst since their rail shot ignores 90% armor and have a much more convenient way of proccing it. What's more important and probably the reason that they tend to beat merc pyros on DMG is that they have a very reliable (100% proc on a insta/no cd) way of keeping up CGC dots on their target, which amounts to a significant amount of DPS, instead of that, mercs got 4% alacrity... woop dee doo!

Edited April 24, 2012 by Nesso

[oldshatterhand]

This topic needs more support so hopefully someone from BW reads it.

[Ghostuka]

Err... Anybody else noticing anything different in Heatseeker missile damage over the last few days? I thought I got better damage during the weekend, now it is like before 1.2 patch? (or maybe I am having a bad luck with it) Edited April 25, 2012 by Ghostuka

[cashogy]

mercenary is fine. the problem lies between your keyboard and your chair

[Bedus]

mercenary is fine. the problem lies between your keyboard and your chair

 

Fine? u mean when u run with premade and pocket healer , then its fine, go solo with mara, assasi, operative and still claim its fine, merc is a joke now, simple as that, heavy armor is joke, def cds a joke, our snare as pyro is joke,...etc

[Naizgrel]

Mercenaries are not useless, people do not understand, ARSENAL IS NOT GOOD FOR PVP, Thats why you go pyro, Why stay as a turret spec able to be interrupted when you can go pyro and wreck people ??? L2P OP

[onderbektas]

Mercenaries are not useless, people do not understand, ARSENAL IS NOT GOOD FOR PVP, Thats why you go pyro, Why stay as a turret spec able to be interrupted when you can go pyro and wreck people ??? L2P OP

 

mercs are totaly broken mercs pyro broken too look at powertechs pyro compare .. if they give us like powertech pyros maybe itll be ok they need to fix asap.

[LarkBenson]

Wasn't there just a 30ish page thread about this? Why is anyone still trying to play arsenal in PvP? This is an mmo, and that spec is currently not viable. Doesn't mean the class is useless. Respec and adapt.

[BoushhDC]

In total agreement. I play a Gunnery Commando as my main (since beta & pre-launch) and have given BW an eyeful on the subject on more than one occasion as recently as a day or two ago and as long ago as a month or more (primarily re: the mobility issues esp in the face of CCs.) None of my personal concerns along the way, which seem to be shared by the comm/merc community at large (save for the mortar volley discrepancy which is now corrected), have been reflected in the changes or on test center, therefore, I support your drawing attention to the issues. I even suggested the devs/and or whomever was reading my reports/posts play a geared one in competitive pvp and see if they don't think they'd want to have some changes it that were *their* main. We shall see.

 

By comparison, I recently levelled a gunslinger to 50, and even w/ little to no gear I had more survivability than my commando which has 3 pieces of WH in fully augmented armor, w/ full BM everywhere else). That 'slinger has 6 CCs (one being an aoe cc), 4 aoes, can't be interrupted in cover, and when hunkered down, can't be knocked back or CCd in any way, not to mention 4 damage mitigating skills, a way to at least nominally self-heal (that gets refreshed faster, more frequently, and therefore for more than spec'd reload), and I've not even counted the dots. Not only did it get buffed in 1.2, but on Tues. they got buffed even more. Have to be honest, pretty fun to play by comparison. I have several other classes on alts (the others are each sub 50) and currently the Commando is BY FAR the least fun to play due to the issues enumerated by the OP. Personally, I'm pretty tired of filling the air w/ epithets all the time--as are those around me. Personally, I'm gutting it out for now, grinding the gear before ranked goes live, then planning to shelve it until changes are made... and before I get put in the dog house at home. lol.

Edited April 26, 2012 by BoushhDC

[NDiggy]

In total agreement. I play a Gunnery Commando as my main (since beta & pre-launch) and have given BW an eyeful on the subject on more than one occasion as recently as a day or two ago and as long ago as a month or more (primarily re: the mobility issues esp in the face of CCs.) None of my personal concerns along the way, which seem to be shared by the comm/merc community at large (save for the mortar volley discrepancy which is now corrected), have been reflected in the changes or on test center, therefore, I support your drawing attention to the issues. I even suggested the devs/and or whomever was reading my reports/posts play a geared one in competitive pvp and see if they don't think they'd want to have some changes it that were *their* main. We shall see.

 

By comparison, I recently levelled a gunslinger to 50, and even w/ little to no gear I had more survivability than my commando which has 3 pieces of WH in fully augmented armor, w/ full BM everywhere else). That 'slinger has 6 CCs (one being an aoe cc), 4 aoes, can't be interrupted in cover, and when hunkered down, can't be knocked back or CCd in any way, not to mention 4 damage mitigating skills, a way to at least nominally self-heal (that gets refreshed faster, more frequently, and therefore for more than spec'd reload), and I've not even counted the dots. Not only did it get buffed in 1.2, but on Tues. they got buffed even more. Have to be honest, pretty fun to play by comparison. I have several other classes on alts (the others are each sub 50) and currently the Commando is BY FAR the least fun to play due to the issues enumerated by the OP. Personally, I'm pretty tired of filling the air w/ epithets all the time--as are those around me. Personally, I'm gutting it out for now, grinding the gear before ranked goes live, then planning to shelve it until changes are made... and before I get put in the dog house at home. lol.

 

Although I commend your for your efforts to bring the plight of commandos/mercs to BW's attention, I have to chide you for continuing to grind it out. The only thing BW listens to is subscriptions, and cancelling and telling them why is the best way to be heard. The class needs changes at the fundamental level and that won't happen in one patch. BW needs to admit they made a mistake in the class design, make some band aid fixes to help in pvp and pve, and then work on changing them long term. I played this class because I didn't want to play a Jedi and I didn't enjoy the cover mechanic on gunslingers. I hate feeling like I'm getting the short end of the stick because I picked the class with the huge assault canon.

[BoushhDC]

... I have to chide you for continuing to grind it out. The only thing BW listens to is subscriptions, and cancelling and telling them why is the best way to be heard....

 

I reject the idea that being a quitter is the best way to effect change. I've known people in my MMO gaming experience that quit at the drop of a hat when they don't like even the smallest thing and move on to the next one. It's an unfortunate trend, imo. Some are pretty ADD (by admission) and others just float through games sampling and moving on, w/ no intention of ever staying anywhere for any length of time. You learn a lot about individuals in how they play (active sports or gaming); art & games reflecting life. I'm not looking to leave SWTOR, I'm looking to play an ever evolving SWTOR. BW has never given me any reason (past or presently) to doubt their commitment to quality; I can honestly say that hasn't always been the case in other MMOs I've played. When BW expressed having ideas and plans for years (even 10+) down the road, I can see that happening and I want to be there to see it. Seriously, when Brazil lost in their World Cup bids, who really had respect for those fans that suicided from the top of the stadium or in front of cars? My point is this: there is always hope for a different outcome in the relatively near future, it's no more honorable a thing to unsubscribe from a game as life. Everyone deserves a chance to demonstrate they can do better, even BW who, if for no other reason, is financially motivated to do so.

 

So others can quit right away if they want (a number have) but I will continue to join with other like-minded individuals for change. BW has some time, but not infinite amounts of it to demonstrate how they value their player base and just how responsive they intend to be about broken things and concerns from the community. Again, we'll see.

Edited April 26, 2012 by BoushhDC