Do you want endless stalemates of healing?

[SWImara]

The changes in 1.2 made the game a super-speedy DPS focused derpfest. Playing a healer is now an utter waste of time unless you're running pre-mades (which is also relatively pointless as there's no rated warzones). My favorite though is definitely the trend in people thinking they're zomgskilled now that pretty much any class (save conspicuously the two with "take no damage bubbles") can be cooked down in seconds, facerolling DPS sure is fun. If you can't beat them though, you can always join them, my Commando is doing fine now that he's gunnery spec rather than medic. Seeing people rage out when they get hit with Demo round for clown-shoes amounts of damage makes me feel a little better good job on the balance adjustments BW.

[Uvirith]

Healers are strictly team players, just like tanks. No they shouldn't win 1v1s, ever, just like tanks cant(and dont bother whining about shadows tanks, they will always lose 1v1 against a dps if both are geared and know how to play).

 

A DD should never, ever ever be able to kill a designated tank all by himself, otherwise something is seriously wrong with balance.

[Easpeak]

Nah, it just makes sense to use the MMO trinity system, but instead of it going in circles it looks like this:

DPS > Tanks

DPS > Healers

Tanks = Healers (they stalemate)

 

Don't fight it, it just makes sense.

[Ntranced]

I think all the healers should just go roll DPS, take a month off. Lets all just run around insta-gibbing everything as DPS in Warzones. As a side benefit the lack of healers should see sub numbers fall drastically as no Flashpoints/Ops or PVE content will get done.

[Gren-Aluren]

Nah, it just makes sense to use the MMO trinity system, but instead of it going in circles it looks like this:

DPS > Tanks

DPS > Healers

Tanks = Healers (they stalemate)

 

Don't fight it, it just makes sense.

 

How can a class with infinite sustainability (Healer) stalemate a class with high survivability (Tank) that will eventually perish? How can a class with low survivability (DPS) and high Damage defeat a class with high survivability (Tank) and low (Damage)? Eventually the Tank should out-survive the DPS. It's the synergy between the 3 classes that let them conquer.

 

DPS should be the bottom of the food chain. They only exist to deal damage, their survival should stem from the Tank and Healer. But in reality you need to give DPS tools to survive since you essentially can't rely on other people in public matches.

[Kapro]

Nah, it just makes sense to use the MMO trinity system, but instead of it going in circles it looks like this:

DPS > Tanks

DPS > Healers

Tanks = Healers (they stalemate)

 

Don't fight it, it just makes sense.

 

And to make matters worse Tanks and Healers are co-dependent in warzones. The recent heal nerfs and DPS buffs indirectly reduce a pure tanks effectiveness. In our 2v2 and 4v4 DPS vs Tank + Healer stress tests in Outlaws Den DPS always came out on top because the support classes were constantly on the defensive in self preservation mode. We can taunt heal and CC for a while but once defesive cooldowns are blown, resolve bars are filled, and ammo is depleated with defense\healing it comes down to who has more DPS.

[LarryRow]

Healers shouldn't be able to live in a 1v1. If they have skill(everyone thinks they have skill, but most dont) and good gear(good defined as battlermaster or above) they should die eventually in a 1v1 fight with a dps. Healers should always have their team mates protecting them via guards and taunts, or CCs and dps from classes without those. Most healers that post on this forum want to be unkillable, they think because of the their spec they deserve a free ride through the WZ. That's unacceptable and I'm confident bioware will never allow that to happen, healing has never been as bad in this game as it is in WoW.

 

Shouldn't it come down to skill? Any class should be able to beat any other class with equal gear if the person controlling the toon is better. Against an equally skilled player you should win 50% of the time.

 

Once you get into 2v2, 3v3 and up, group composition plays a role (i.e., there should be diminishing returns for stacking all dps, heals, or tanks, versus some of each).

[LiveandDieinLA]

I think all the healers should just go roll DPS, take a month off. Lets all just run around insta-gibbing everything as DPS in Warzones. As a side benefit the lack of healers should see sub numbers fall drastically as no Flashpoints/Ops or PVE content will get done.

 

I got news for you, if post 12 you can't function as a healer you are going to do just as bad as a dps.

[ComeAndSee]

You guys have a lot of misconceptions about tanks. The "tank trees" aren't 100% defense oriented and have just as many offense based talents as defense.

 

Tanks who wear DPS gear can do as much and MORE DPS than pure DPS classes plus having the team support abilities. A huge portion of my DPS is from AOE because I have a lot of it at my disposal on semi-long cooldowns and I can burst people pretty hard in a couple of GCDs.

 

1v1? Only classes that beat me are (good) Marauders + (very rare) Operatives.

Edited April 24, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[EbonFade]

Shouldn't it come down to skill? Any class should be able to beat any other class with equal gear if the person controlling the toon is better. .

 

The game shouldn't be balanced around 1 on 1. IT should be balanced for 4-4, 5-5, 6-6 which is what the majority of encounters look like.

 

Atm, the low ttk is killing the skill required to perform the latter. Between two good teams It's basically coming down to gear, luck (crits) and in either event, win or lose, the whole thing lasts maybe 15 seconds.

 

People don't even have time to switch guard and cc, and dps doesn't even need to interupt or CC offhealer. They don't need to pull tanks away. 3 Marauders on a target = target dead in 3 seconds, regardless of what the other team tries to do.

[Dartagon]

I got news for you, if post 12 you can't function as a healer you are going to do just as bad as a dps.

 

I can perform just fine in 1.2 as a healer, is it fun? Less then it was, do I feel like I contribute to my team? Sometimes, a lot less if I'm the only healer and the team has 1 Marauder/Sentinel.

 

Could I mop the floor as a DPS. Easily. DPS is the easiest role to play, that's why so many people play a DPS.

 

You aren't the center of attention, you have good survivability (in this game), you basically spew the same rotation over and over. Nobody ever looks to you and says, dude ***, you didn't dps hard enough if you hit the magic 300k number. Like that number means something to the overall objective of warzone. I'm tired of all this BS where DPS is hard or something?? ***.

 

There AREN'T any hard roles in a game, there is just different type of roles, they are equally as challenging and equally as easy.

[Gren-Aluren]

You guys have a lot of misconceptions about tanks. The "tank trees" aren't 100% defense oriented and have just as many offense based talents as defense.

 

Tanks who wear DPS gear can do as much and MORE DPS than pure DPS classes plus having the team support abilities. A huge portion of my DPS is from AOE because I have a lot of it at my disposal on semi-long cooldowns and I can burst people pretty hard in a couple of GCDs.

 

1v1? Only classes that beat me are (good) Marauders + (very rare) Operatives.

 

According to bioware the pure DPS classes are supposed to be doing about 5% more DPS overall but are garnered more utility over all the other classes (Apparently Gunslingers weren't...LOL.) I remember seeing a print out where a Shadow in tank spec did 300 DPS less with DPS gear then in the offense tree which was about a 20% decrease in DPS from the two trees. I'll take a wild guess and say it's another 10-20% decrease if you went into full tank gear. It would be a safe assumption that it would be the same for all the non-pure DPS advanced classes. So trading 15-20% of your DPS for more utility and survivability is usually a good trade-off. I believe it's why tank Shadows are capable of doing so well in PvP.

 

Tanks are suppose to be threatening otherwise they wouldn't be much of a tank. But they also should not be roflstomping when they are outnumbered. So yeah, you should do good DPS if done right. A well placed Relic or Adrenal can put your numbers back on par with DPS specs.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Gren-Aluren

[SWImara]

I got news for you, if post 12 you can't function as a healer you are going to do just as bad as a dps.

Everyone likes to convince themselves that they're super-elite and that all of their victories are due purely to skill but DPS is cake in MMOs and it always has been. There's limited necessity to pay attention to anything but yourself and your target (an issue that regularly leads to people complaining about DPS players in raids and in PvP). More importantly though your assertion is easily testable. Anyone playing a healing AC can instead spec DPS and test it out for themselves, and I'd be terribly surprised if they didn't find it much easier than trying to bother healing atm.

 

If you've got a competent group you're running with healing is still fine, but if you're running solo it's likely not worth the frustration. The problem before was that people got destroyed by competent and balanced pre-mades as they do in every MMO ever.

 

Playing my Commando as a Combat Medic (heals) post 1.2 was far from pleasant, so I respecced into Gunnery (splosions) and it is cake. The only thing easier has been my Vigilance Guardian (aka Master Strike facemelter) I only wish I'd rolled a Sentinel instead for.... added survivability... because that makes sense in a DPS class.

[Darianth]

Usually the only time I die as a healer is when I have at least 2 people sacking on me and interrupting all of my abilities. 1v1 I can survive as long as I'm not caught off guard with 50% health.

[Xsorus]

You guys have a lot of misconceptions about tanks. The "tank trees" aren't 100% defense oriented and have just as many offense based talents as defense.

 

Tanks who wear DPS gear can do as much and MORE DPS than pure DPS classes plus having the team support abilities. A huge portion of my DPS is from AOE because I have a lot of it at my disposal on semi-long cooldowns and I can burst people pretty hard in a couple of GCDs.

 

1v1? Only classes that beat me are (good) Marauders + (very rare) Operatives.

 

Rofl, the fact you think Tanks in DPS gear can put out as much damage as a Pure DPS class, cracks me up...

[Gren-Aluren]

Rofl, the fact you think Tanks in DPS gear can put out as much damage as a Pure DPS class, cracks me up...

 

Well...according to combat logs Tank Shadows in DPS gear are getting about 1300 DPS the same as Gunslingers in marksmen tree pre the recent patch. Gunslingers should be doing 1500.

[Darth_Philar]

Let me break down the concept of healing balance for you:

 

1 DPS versus 1 Healer

DPS: x - y = 0

Healer: y - x = 0

(x = Damage Done, y = Damage Healed)

This ends in a stalemate (if the healer stops to DPS at all he will fall behind on y and will die).

If x>y then the healer is useless. Likewise if x<y then the healer is OP.

 

1 DPS versus 1 Healer and 1 DPS (i.e. 1v2)

DPS: x - y = 0

Healer: y - x + z = z

(x = Damage Done, y = Damage Healed, z = Healer's Team DPS)

This results in the solo DPS losing while doing no effective damage as it is completely mitigated by the healer. Even if he switches targets or focuses one or the other the solo cannot out DPS the Healer by himself and he therefore succumbs to the DPS of the Healer's friend.

 

1 Healer should always completely mitigate 1 DPS, and 1 DPS should always mitigate 1 Healer.

[ComeAndSee]

1 Healer should always completely mitigate 1 DPS, and 1 DPS should always mitigate 1 Healer.

 

Do you know how frustrating it was to try and kill a healer in 1.1.5? It was like beating your fists on a wall. It was hopelessly one sided. The situation transferred into WZ where Merc healers could walk into a group of 4 people and just spam heal themselves through it. I actually RAN AWAY from healers because I knew I couldn't beat them 1v1.

 

What you have now is balance. Healers are still extremely helpful to your team, but they aren't invincible anymore. Throw them some support and tender loving care and they become nearly unkillable again.

Edited April 24, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Stilly]

Funny, all the top pvpers quit this game. A while ago actually. It is cute to see these wannabes pretending they are amazing because they play a lot.

 

1.) Don't claim you are better than everyone until there is a way to measure it.

2.) The pvp in this game is a joke and in no way should be misconsrued as requiring anything other than gear.

3.) The min you call someone on the forums bad you have just proven to everyone that you are a wannabe elite pvper. Elite pvpers don't talk to people like that because they don't need to.

4.) Compairing this game to wow is like compairing Mario bros to Final Fantasy. There is no comparison. One is sandbox, the other is a single player game with instances. Both are **** games for pvp. Wow and starwars fanbois can stop now, no one cares which game is your favorite. You aren't that important.

5.) I like numbered lists.

[Scoobings]

Let me break down the concept of healing balance for you:

 

1 DPS versus 1 Healer

DPS: x - y = 0

Healer: y - x = 0

(x = Damage Done, y = Damage Healed)

This ends in a stalemate (if the healer stops to DPS at all he will fall behind on y and will die).

If x>y then the healer is useless. Likewise if x<y then the healer is OP.

 

1 DPS versus 1 Healer and 1 DPS (i.e. 1v2)

DPS: x - y = 0

Healer: y - x + z = z

(x = Damage Done, y = Damage Healed, z = Healer's Team DPS)

This results in the solo DPS losing while doing no effective damage as it is completely mitigated by the healer. Even if he switches targets or focuses one or the other the solo cannot out DPS the Healer by himself and he therefore succumbs to the DPS of the Healer's friend.

 

1 Healer should always completely mitigate 1 DPS, and 1 DPS should always mitigate 1 Healer.

 

Right now, my personal opinion, is that op healers are a touch above this line, commandos are right at this line, and sorcs are a touch under this line. Over all I definitely thought these changes were good. A healer 1v1 has to dedicate themself to keeping alive. That's why this game has taunts and guards.

[Boyana]

So one of the two opponents in a fight should be pre-determined to eventually die...and you would consider that balanced?

 

 

 

So 1v1 the healer's teammates should help them.

 

That isn't 1v1 then, is it?

 

 

 

Most DPS that post on this forum want to press 2 or 3 of their big damage skills and rip through people hulk smash style without engaging a few brain cells or considering even the most basic tactical methods.

 

There, now we've both made insulting hyperbolic exaggerations that add nothing substantive to the discussion and amount to nothing more than flinging ***** at each other.

 

I could live through several derp-tastic players pre-1.2 or die to 1 that knew what they were doing and outplayed me. One thing is for sure, we can spot the derps rather easily, they're the ones who spew nonsense about invincible healers they can't kill.

 

 

Uhuhu, I agree with this one. Speacially the last part.

 

---

 

Anyway, good thing about being a healer: you can see who is really bad and who isn't. One more thing is healer knows something DPS doesn't: what class is the most OP atm. Lets say, Marauders were always strong, something DPSers saw only after their class got nerf. Tralalal.

So, next time you want to know who is OP ask your healer friend. He/she knows it already.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Boyana
He/she

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

really? healing was nerfed pretty hard, so there are just more healers in premades (especially republic). just spread stuns, and focus targets.

 

derp.

[Safid]

Healing before 1.2 was too good. Average healers could keep themselves alive indefinitely because of three factors: 1) they never ran out of resources 2) interrupts are weak (interrupting heal spell A does not prevent the use of heal spells B C D or E) and 3) expertise was too effective for healers because it completely cancelled the equivalent incoming damage bonus while also boosting heals. This lead to healing dominance and premades made up of 3+ healers who were very difficult to kill.

 

In 1.2, factor 1 has been fixed, 2 has been untouched, and 3 has been rebalanced. My experience is that average healers, used to being able to stand completely still and heal through incoming damage, have been hit hard. Good healers have adapted and use mobility and control effects to keep DPS at bay -- a fair trade, one player keeping another player busy, with skill determining who will prevail.

 

I am unconcerned about the average or poor healers being unable to heal. They can either up their game or continue to die to average DPS. However, some healers have much larger toolboxes than others to deal with the new environment (Operatives/Smugglers) while others have very few (Commando/Mercenary) and it is resulting in an imbalance.

 

While a great Smuggler kites me in circles while throwing instant cast spells on himself and using CC to stop me from getting off damaging combinations of abilities, a great Commando ... pops his shield and tries to heal through my DPS, then I CC him instead of interrupting. That's a problem.

[Arkerus]

No. People have to die for PvP to even make sense or work.

[pathiss]

2) interrupts are weak (interrupting heal spell A does not prevent the use of heal spells B C D or E) and

 

This is only true if you were ignorant as to 'what' to interrupt. Some spells are (were) viable for healing through dps and others weren't. For example, if you interrupted a sorc/sage gtaoe puddle pre 1.2 ...fine you stopped them from healing multiple people for minor amounts, but what you did not stop was them healing themselves with the big heal. Your mistake for not knowing what spell to stop. The first isnt viable for keeping a single target alive, the second was.

 

I say -was- because now it is always going to have a long cast time as is much much easier to interrupt.